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[Tamanon]

I dunno, I think it might go through. The house will make their version with small differences around the edges then pass it. That way they can claim they created a better bill, blah blah blah.

Hopefully.

 

[sc0la]

I would be okay with eliminating the minimum wage if you replaced it with a guaranteed minimum income.

I think you would actually see some minimum wage jobs go up in wage if people didnt have to choose shit work to survive and demand for those jobs decreased.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

I dunno, I think it might go through. The house will make their version with small differences around the edges then pass it. That way they can claim they created a better bill, blah blah blah.

Hopefully.

I expect changes all to be about the border security and clauses making it harder for immigrants (those that are already here) to get jobs.

I don't expect anything radical. The path will still be there.

 

[jamesinclair]

you're going to have to clarify which party you are referencing

thatsthejoke.jpg

 

[RustyNails]

GOP legislature falsifies Wendy Davis' speaking time on the filibuster in order to make it appear that the bill passed

“I know it was done intentionally based on a conversation that one of my Senate colleagues had with the office that actually puts that online or makes that information available,” Senator Davis told Anderson Coooper. “And he was told by them when he asked why it was changed that they were instructed to do it.”

Davis hammered home the point that the time stamp was changed on purpose, “So, we know it was purposeful and I think there will be further investigation as to exactly what happened there. By changing the date, it would have changed the outcome.”

Two documents were distributed, according to Chron. The “first said that the bill had passed on 6/26 while the second appeared on Texas Legislature Online nine minutes later, with the date 6/25.”

Where's Darrel Issa when you need him

 

[gcubed]

thatsthejoke.jpg

thats a pretty safe bet then

GOP legislature falsifies Wendy Davis' speaking time on the filibuster in order to make it appear that the bill passed

Where's Darrel Issa when you need him

in texas, changing dates on bills... then asking why washington let it happen

 

[BSsBrolly]

Anyone here heard the song "American" by Macklemore? I was listening to spotify at the gym yesterday and that song played. I actually laughed out loud. Shits hilarious.

 

[Link]

The Next Bill Clinton™ doesn't like the fact that SCOTUS overturned DOMA: http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2013/06/christie_gay_marriage.html#cmpid=nwsltrhead

Christie’s comments echoed statements issued by fellow Republicans U.S. Sen. Marco Rubio and former Sen. Rick Santorum, who both said the Supreme Court overstepped its role.

I'd love to know what these guys think about the VRA decision.

 

[The Librarian]

I'd love to know what these guys think about the VRA decision.

Standing up for the rights of the common American.

 

[jamesinclair]

Shocking news: Marijuana legalization doesnt solve crime problems

Sheriff's deputies estimated the street value of the marijuana seized near Adams and Chestnut avenues to be $160 million.

The gun battle erupted nearby at Chestnut and Clayton avenues Wednesday afternoon. Arriving deputies found the victim with gunshot wounds to his neck and chest. Witnesses said that before the crash, the victim, a reputed gang member, exchanged fire with another vehicle as they sped through the rural area.

Deputies found freshly harvested marijuana in the gunshot victim's stolen car. The occupants of the other vehicle remain at large.

Deputies aren't certain whoever shot the victim during the gunfight was tending the marijuana field, but Mims said it's clear that violence often accompanies efforts to grow the weed in Valley fields. She said that last year, there were eight homicides connected to such operations.

Read more here: http://www.fresnobee.com/2013/06/27/3363817/fresno-county-sheriff-to-marijuana.html#storylink=cpy


Doesnt matter how legal it is. When you can fit tens of thousands of dollars into your pocket, and $100 million + in your backyard, crime will follow.

 

[Tamanon]

I dunno, pack $100 million in cash in your house/yard and you'll probably see the same type of crime.

 

[gcubed]

I dunno, pack $100 million in cash in your house/yard and you'll probably see the same type of crime.

we shouldn't legalize cash!

 

[Oblivion]

What exactly is the general right wing argument for abolishing minimum wage anyway? It's one thing to advocate tax cuts for the rich because in the abstract, that may sound plausible to people who don't know better, but I'm coming up blank when trying to figure out how paying someone less will eventually lead to paying them more.

 

[gcubed]

What exactly is the general right wing argument for abolishing minimum wage anyway? It's one thing to advocate tax cuts for the rich because in the abstract, that may sound plausible to people who don't know better, but I'm coming up blank when trying to figure out how paying someone less will eventually lead to paying them more.

pay more people less instead of less people more

 

[East Lake]

Think in terms of some moral rule that you think is "fair". The justification can come afterward or not at all if you'd like. In this case you would think it's fair to pay people what they would agree to work for. If that turns out to be damaging after seeing more information revert back to the moral argument.

Edit: This is only for argumentation purposes. You might want to slash wages for other terrible purposes but the justification will be softened into something like the above.

 

[sc0la]

Shocking news: Marijuana legalization doesnt solve crime problems




Read more here: http://www.fresnobee.com/2013/06/27/3363817/fresno-county-sheriff-to-marijuana.html#storylink=cpy


Doesnt matter how legal it is. When you can fit tens of thousands of dollars into your pocket, and $100 million + in your backyard, crime will follow.

Eh, it's still worth so much since other states it is still illicit. Until its decriminalized in most states you won't see the value drop significantly. It's the relative value, not the good itself. People used to shoot people over alcohol during prohibition, people are rarely shot over the meer possession of alcohol these days (intoxication is another story)

 

[Dan]

^ Bingo.

Shocking news: Marijuana legalization doesnt solve crime problems




Read more here: http://www.fresnobee.com/2013/06/27/3363817/fresno-county-sheriff-to-marijuana.html#storylink=cpy


Doesnt matter how legal it is. When you can fit tens of thousands of dollars into your pocket, and $100 million + in your backyard, crime will follow.

That seems like a real odd point to be making considering this operation was apparently violating laws/regulations anyway, in a state where only medical marijuana is legal, and involved interstate dealings.

 

[jamesinclair]

I dunno, pack $100 million in cash in your house/yard and you'll probably see the same type of crime.

Thats the point though.

Drugs are a special situation because in such a small space they pack a lot of potency and value.

Alcohol? Please. Its a liquid, which means you cant exactly walk around with the amount of alcohol needed to get 50 people drunk/high.

That seems like a real odd point to be making considering this operation was apparently violating laws/regulations anyway, in a state where only medical marijuana is legal, and involved interstate dealings.

The law they violated was growing more than their permit stated they could.

Making the quantity legal wouldnt have changed anything.

 

[speculawyer]

Shocking news: Marijuana legalization doesnt solve crime problems

Read more here: http://www.fresnobee.com/2013/06/27/3363817/fresno-county-sheriff-to-marijuana.html#storylink=cpy

Doesnt matter how legal it is. When you can fit tens of thousands of dollars into your pocket, and $100 million + in your backyard, crime will follow.

You are going to have to tell me when and how marijuana became legal in California. I must have missed that.

 

[The Technomancer]

Why doesn't congress or at least the senate take up Puerto Rico's vote last year to become a state?

Have republicans oppose that. Along with immigration reform

"On our knees"

"I wanna get down on my knees and keep pleasing Jesus, I wanna feel his salvation all over my face!"

 

[Oblivion]

Oh, by the way. One of the things that bothered me about the recent IRS-gate revelations was why it took so long for this info about liberal groups to come out. And why this news contradicted the original testimony that only teabagger groups were targeted. And the answer, as usual, was Republicans:

Garance Franke-Ruta had a very interesting report on Tuesday on J. Russell George, the George W. Bush appointee who leads the IG's office and who helped Republicans create the controversy with his misleading report. George now appears eager to pass the buck, but as Garance reported, the inspector general "might not be the impartial arbiter he successfully presented himself to be," and may not have given accurate answers during his sworn testimony.

In May, George declined to answer questions about whether progressive groups were targeted, a kind cageyness that now raises questions about his impartiality in presenting findings about what went on at the IRS.

At the May 22 House Oversight and Government Reform Committee hearing "The IRS: Targeting Americans for Their Beliefs," Chairman Darrell Issa asked George point-blank about "be on the lookout" orders: "Were there any BOLOs issued for progressive groups, liberal groups?"

"Sir, this is a very important question," the courtly George replied. "Please, I beg your indulgence .... The only 'be on the lookout,' that is BOLO, used to refer cases for political review were the ones that we described within our report."

"There were other BOLOs used for other purposes," he added -- such as "indicators of known fraud schemes" and, for "nationwide organizations, there were notes to refer state and local chapters to the same reviewers."

He did not mention the one now revealed for progressive groups.

http://maddowblog.msnbc.com/_news/2013/06/27/19171531-in-the-wake-of-a-discredited-scandal?lite

 

[j_k_redtail]

Sort of peripheral to this thread, but expect to see it in the news:

Ex-Pentagon general target of leak investigation, sources say

Last year, the New York Times reported that Cartwright, a four-star general who was vice chairman of the Joint Chiefs from 2007 to 2011, conceived and ran the cyber operation, called Olympic Games, under Presidents Bush and Obama. According to the front-page story by chief Washington correspondent David Sanger, President Obama ordered the cyber attacks sped up, and in 2010 an attack using the Stuxnet worm temporarily disabled 1,000 centrifuges that the Iranians were using to enrich uranium.

General Cartwright is thought to be the source for this NYT article last year. According to NBC he was the former second ranking officer in the US military, and was credited with initiating the program in the first place. It's not immediately clear what motive he possibly could have had to leak information about it to the press.

 

[jamesinclair]

You are going to have to tell me when and how marijuana became legal in California. I must have missed that.

When you were allowed to have pot farms and stores....?

 

[User 406]

"There were other BOLOs used for other purposes," he added -- such as "indicators of known fraud schemes"

Like being liberal or progressive.

 

[thcsquad]

Thats the point though.

Drugs are a special situation because in such a small space they pack a lot of potency and value.

You're missing the point. The only reason pot is so valuable is because it's illegal, including in Cali. Even if the easy access to medical marijuana has driven down prices there, it's still dead simple to transport it out of state.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

Sort of peripheral to this thread, but expect to see it in the news:

Ex-Pentagon general target of leak investigation, sources say



General Cartwright is thought to be the source for this NYT article last year. According to NBC he was the former second ranking officer in the US military, and was credited with initiating the program in the first place. It's not immediately clear what motive he possibly could have had to leak information about it to the press.

I have a feeling he might (if it was him) have wanted to influence the debate around Iran

That's pretty big though.

 

[jamesinclair]

You're missing the point. The only reason pot is so valuable is because it's illegal, including in Cali. Even if the easy access to medical marijuana has driven down prices there, it's still dead simple to transport it out of state.

What about it being illegal makes it so expensive?

Anyone can grow it. It literally grows like a weed.

Were not exactly talking cocaine here

 

[Chichikov]

What about it being illegal makes it so expensive?

Anyone can grow it. It literally grows like a weed.

Were not exactly talking cocaine here

Sellers generally keep the black market prices because they can (since the market can bare it).
At some point if it's become legal and acceptable, you'll see big retail players undercut them.

That being said, you'll still going to have crime around it, people still steal legal products all the time.

 

[sc0la]

What about it being illegal makes it so expensive?

Anyone can grow it. It literally grows like a weed.

Were not exactly talking cocaine here

Everyone cannot grow it legally. And even if everyone in California could, its value is still elevated by being illegal and desired in other states.

 

[j_k_redtail]

I have a feeling he might (if it was him) have wanted to influence the debate around Iran

That's pretty big though.

Sure, but I mean - influence in which direction? My only hint is this:

Cartwright — dubbed “Obama’s favorite general” by Bob Woodward — has advocated for drastic cuts in the U.S. nuclear arsenal and, according to The Times’s reporting, was an early advocate of using cyber warfare to try to set back Iran’s nuclear program.

Perhaps he was trying to demonstrate the program's success?

 

[NYCmetsfan]

Sure, but I mean - influence in which direction? My only hint is this:



Perhaps he was trying to demonstrate the program's success?

Yeah. Slowdown the war rhetoric? Show that covert means work?

I remember there being a lot of Omg Iran nuke tomorrow. Lets bomb!

 

[pigeon]

Sellers generally keep the black market prices because they can (since the market can bare it).
At some point if it's become legal and acceptable, you'll see big retail players undercut them.

That being said, you'll still going to have crime around it, people still steal legal products all the time.

This is pretty much it. De facto legalization such as in California is essentially legalization for "small businesses" only. But agriculture is one of the fields most responsive to economies of scale. If Marlboro gets into the act, believe me, the price of pot will come wayyyyy down. Admittedly, the THC probably will too.

 

[rocketknight]

I think we have a lot of NPR people in here: Talk of the Nation is done. Consider this your public disservice announcement

 

[Avon Barksdale]

Rand Paul is the GOP frontrunner in Montana.

http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2013/06/mont.html

 

[B-Dubs]

Rand Paul is the GOP frontrunner in Montana.

http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2013/06/mont.html

Isn't he going to be running as a libertarian though? Plus it's Montana.

 

[speculawyer]

Rand Paul is the GOP frontrunner in Montana.

http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2013/06/mont.html

Well I'd be fine with him being nominated. A far-right faux libertarian from Kentucky is not gonna win the election. He'll never live down the "I would not vote for the Civil Rights Act" even though he's flip-flopped on it.

 

[B-Dubs]

Well I'd be fine with him being nominated. A far-right faux libertarian from Kentucky is not gonna win the election. He'll never live down the "I would not vote for the Civil Rights Act" even though he's flip-flopped on it.

Wasn't there also some aquabuddha thing with him? It wouldn't be to hard to set an attack add to an altered version of aqualung. Just need to find someone to sing it.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

Wasn't there also some aquabuddha thing with him? It wouldn't be to hard to set an attack add to an altered version of aqualung. Just need to find someone to sing it.

They tried this, it will back fire.

Don't attack a candidate on their personal life. Attack them on their positions. Rand has plenty to call him out on.

 

[B-Dubs]

They tried this, it will back fire.

Don't attack a candidate on their personal life. Attack them on their positions. Rand has plenty to call him out on.

I figured as much. Really the reason I brought it up is that I still don't understand what the hell it's about. Does he have like a Buddha statue in a fish tank or something?

 

[NYCmetsfan]

I figured as much. Really the reason I brought it up is that I still don't understand what the hell it's about. Does he have like a Buddha statue in a fish tank or something?

Its college. Didn't we all do crazy crap back then? I doubt I remember all the stupid stuff I did.

 

[Diablos]

Part of me wants to be an optimist and think that Congress having a 10% approval rating will allow the Dems to take it back but then I'd be chasing a fantasy

 

[B-Dubs]

Its college. Didn't we all do crazy crap back then? I doubt I remember all the stupid stuff I did.

I was pretty low key in college, go back to HS and I've got some crazy stories though. So I get it, still trying to wrap my head around why he joined a cult though...ah well whatever...

Part of me wants to be an optimist and think that Congress having a 10% approval rating will allow the Dems to take it back but then I'd be chasing a fantasy

Congress is never popular, being universally hated is like their thing. Everyone hates Congress but loves their congressmen/senators.

 

[Jooney]

What exactly is the general right wing argument for abolishing minimum wage anyway? It's one thing to advocate tax cuts for the rich because in the abstract, that may sound plausible to people who don't know better, but I'm coming up blank when trying to figure out how paying someone less will eventually lead to paying them more.

Greater economic freedom for capital
Create jobs
Empower employees to negotiate their own wages!
Reduce barriers for youth and low skill labour to enter job market

Of course none of this addresses the living wage requirements for current minimum wage employees, and completely disregards the popularity of having a min wage (~90%) and its success in raising living standards for labour markets throughout its history.

 

[Jooney]

I think we have a lot of NPR people in here: Talk of the Nation is done. Consider this your public disservice announcement

Ill miss Neal Conan. :-(

 

[Black Mamba]

What exactly is the general right wing argument for abolishing minimum wage anyway? It's one thing to advocate tax cuts for the rich because in the abstract, that may sound plausible to people who don't know better, but I'm coming up blank when trying to figure out how paying someone less will eventually lead to paying them more.

The argument is that a minimum wage increases unemployment and not that it lowers wages. They argue it's better to have 100 people working for $6/hr than 70 people working at $8/hr

But these negative employment effects are almost only true under conditions that do not exist in any market in the world that I'm aware of.

It's a classic case of "econ 101" being misused. By this I mean it's only true under "perfect conditions" and is only meant for illustration. These things do not exist in the real world.

 

[Arrowgigantic]

Yeah, Rand Paul's bullshit will fly with the Paula Deen crowd in the south, but he probably can't even win the Iowa caucuses. Plus Gary Bauer will probably run again in the Libertarian side, he's staying active with the Lib base, he published an article on Politico I think on Father's Day about American dads getting so much misandry. You'll know he's after 2016 for sure if he starts doing photo ops wearing a fedora.

 

[The Librarian]

Its college. Didn't we all do crazy crap back then? I doubt I remember all the stupid stuff I did.

Noooope. Granted, I have a year to go, but I am not the type of person to go out and do stupid stuff like that. I am a woman beyond my years.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Just noticed Daily Kos is all aboard the Wendy Davis for governor train, and last night she left the door open to running when asked about it. I can't help but think she's being set up to fail. Texas is still Texas. It's still pro choice, democrats haven't won a state wide election there in years, etc.

Perry embarrassed himself on the national stage but fits in Texas, despite his approval ratings dropping recently. I don't think he'll have trouble making Davis the pro Obama, pro abortion candidate and rallying the base. Meanwhile the democrat base in Texas never shows up - which is why many believe the state won't truly be purple until 2024 when demographic changes begin to blossom. There are a whole lot of Hispanic Texans right now who simply don't vote. She would need a historic turnout among women, blacks, and Hispanics...I could perhaps buy that if the election was in 2016 and she could ride Hillary's coat tails.

In short I think if she runs it'll be a democrat experiment for 2016/2020. Lots of people will be registered, lots of numbers will be stored, and in the end she'll lose by 6 points.

 

[Incognito]

Just noticed Daily Kos is all aboard the Wendy Davis for governor train, and last night she left the door open to running when asked about it. I can't help but think she's being set up to fail. Texas is still Texas. It's still pro choice, democrats haven't won a state wide election there in years, etc.

Perry embarrassed himself on the national stage but fits in Texas, despite his approval ratings dropping recently. I don't think he'll have trouble making Davis the pro Obama, pro abortion candidate and rallying the base. Meanwhile the democrat base in Texas never shows up - which is why many believe the state won't truly be purple until 2024 when demographic changes begin to blossom. There are a whole lot of Hispanic Texans right now who simply don't vote. She would need a historic turnout among women, blacks, and Hispanics...I could perhaps buy that if the election was in 2016 and she could ride Hillary's coat tails.

In short I think if she runs it'll be a democrat experiment for 2016/2020. Lots of people will be registered, lots of numbers will be stored, and in the end she'll lose by 6 points.

I agree that she or whichever Democrats runs in 2014 will lose, but as you know you can also win by losing. I think 2018 will be the truly first competitive gubernatorial race in Texas, but I can also easily see the Democratic primary turning into fratricide with Julian Castro and Wendy Davis.

 

[Gruco]

Chait argues that immigration reform in the House is ripe for a discharge petition: http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2013/06/how-immigration-reform-can-pass.html

I can see it, but at the same time I'm not sure the Republican leadership wants the story here to be about Republicans defying their party to pass the thing.

Yup, this is the axe hanging over Boehner as he talks about the Hastert rule. For something this politically salient, I'd be amazed if Boehner holds out and we don't see a serious discharge campaign.