-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
PoliGAF 2013 |OT2| Worth 77% of OT1
- Thread starter The Librarian
- Start date
- Status
I'm not so sure about that. Obama and Kerry have basically maintained that he should be entitled to the final word, which is kind of baffling because he formally stated that he will wait for Congress.
If the majority of Congress says no then Obama should back down. And it looks like that is where it is heading. But I don't know if the President will or not.
But why did he have a press conference about respecting Congressional authority to declare war over his mere intent? Was that really "selling" anything so much as it was trying to make a good impression on Congress to get votes? I don't think that had anything to do with the public at the end of the day.
Also, NSA? Is the WH to even blame for that fully? NSA has grown by leaps and bounds since 9/11, I don't think most people in Washington have a full grasp on what the fuck they are able to do these days.
Ether_Snake
å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®
Why are they constantly pretending only Russia is blocking the attacks? China says HELLO!
Avon Barksdale
Member
Romney advisers thought that Romney was right? :jnc
What is :jnc anyway? This has been driving me crazy for months.
Avon Barksdale
Member
It's from NFL GAF. It's basically :lol.
I saw this before I went out today, embarrassing. Seriously, I saw better reporting on the Daily Show today.
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
The more this circus drags on the more it looks like a worse idea for Obama to let this thing extend with Congress. Could have been done and over with by now and we'd be talking about the next thing.
Sanky Panky
Banned
Some perspective on the Senate panel's vote on Syria...
But we already know this, so we go along with the narrative for the attack.
But we already know this, so we go along with the narrative for the attack.
The Librarian
Banned
I don't see a large enough difference to judge votes by dollars.
Something tells me that multi-multi-multi-millionaire John McCain isn't threatening to send folks to war over $80k.
Black Republican
Member
7.3% unemployment 169k jobs added
The graph isn't much of a smoking gun tbh.
And it's the Foreign Relations Committee, of course they would receive defense dollars.
Sanky Panky
Banned
July jobs added were revised down to only 104k jobs added, and 516k people dropped out of the labor force during August. The labor force participation rate dropped to 63.2% from 63.4%, explaining the drop in the unemployment rate.
2001 called, it wants its irrational underestimation of the complications of war in the Middle East back.
Congress killing the authorization would probably be the best thing possible at this point. Ideally it would actually set a new precedent going forward about the limits of executive power with regards to military action. And we can still fight for multilateral intervention in the UN.
NYCmetsfan
Banned
I'm pretty much aboard the hoping congress kills it train. This has just been handled poorly. As of now strikes just aren't going to do anything. And Obama's handling has made the chances of escalation even greater. I think there does need to be a response to chemical weapons but this week as just been a failure and the strikes won't be seen as doing that. The briefing wednesday was just really bad. Kerry just kept bringing up Munich and the Jewish ship being turned back. This just isn't that. They're selling it so badly I think its making the outcome of the strikes even worse, if they go ahead. Assad knows this is just a slap on the wrist so the white houses stated goals.
On a bigger note Obama just seems lost in his foreign policy. There's something to be said for at least seeming to be consistent. It gives your statements weight and puts you in a stronger position negotiate. I really do think there is something to be said for the right's 'weekness' argument, Obama just can't be counted on to stand for anything besides trying to come out not completely discredited. I don't think the solution to this is to adopt a aggressive policy but to have things that you stand on and don't move from. The Russians and much of the Middle East just seems not to care what the US has to say. We don't even have diplomatic clout now.
Obama came in claiming to retreat from war and actively engage in diplomacy. Where has the second part of this been? There was a bit but its been absent since 2011 (Libya, Arab Spring and OBL). FZ had an article about how Obama claims to admire Bush I's foreign policy, which I admit I do think was rather good, but seems to have not learned and applied the lessons from it. I think its interesting to point out some of the most restrained and effective foreign polices of the 20th centuries have been from Bush I and Eisenhower (I know he did Iran and Guatemala but he said out of Vietnam and the Suez) two presidents that came from the Military-Intelligence community. I think there is something to be said for the humility that comes from there. Politicians are just really bad at that and I think it hurts us.
People don't realize dollars often follow votes rather than the other way around. McCain is a hawk so hawkish groups support him seeking a good sales person and advocate to navigate congress. Campaign dollars don't change a persons whole ideology. There is a lack of understanding of how campaign finance is, its not the simplistic buying votes.
PhoenixDark
Banned
@ G20 press conference: Obama refusing to answer direct question multiple times on whether he'll attack Syria without Congress approval. Obviously he's not going to telegraph his actions, but still.
NYCmetsfan
Banned
So you realize why he's not (it hurts his chances) but you still make a stink about it?
Didn't he pretty much dismiss that at the start where he clearly suggested he went to Congress in the first place because he doesn't have the authority given the Syrian situation does not pose an imminent threat to the US or its allies?
The Librarian
Banned
Obama is not going to attack Syria if Congress doesn't vote that he can. Why does this keep being brought up?
He has repeatedly asserted his right to attack Syria even if congress votes no.
NYCmetsfan
Banned
Because its something to write about.
Even when presidents go to war they claim this. They're not going to acknowledge limits to their power. And if something changes he's not going to have to explain why he said this and changed his mind. Politically he can't unless the senate is overwhelming and the house is super close.
Because each journalist wants to finally be the one to crack open the scandal.
Obama personally has, or only by proxy via Kerry?
The Librarian
Banned
I feel like I need to post this tweet anytime PD or anyone else on GAF bring sup the possibility of Obama attacking Syria if Congress votes that he can't.
President Obama has himself, starting in the speech last weekend declaring his decision. Now that doesn't mean he actually would strike if Congress said no, he's just reaffirming the long-held Executive power.
Obama
Kerry
It's politically risky therefore unlikely, but I don't see why people are ruling it out completely. The admins statements on Syria been pretty strong and I don't think it's out of the question that he will act unilaterally. He looses some credibility on the other side if he doesn't act, because of some of the hardline things he's said.
empty vessel
Member
It's true that campaign finance is not simple straightforward vote buying (although that would probably be the best simplified description of it), and it's also true that campaign dollars do not change a person's ideology. But politicians aren't all that ideological to begin with (with the exception of those who get elected through movements, like tea party politicians). They are, however, influenced significantly by money, because money helps get them votes come election time.
When it became pretty clear that the electorate was going to dump Republicans in 2008, Democrats picked up a lot of money that they otherwise would not have. For this phenomenon to make sense, it must be the case that dollars follow power. The reality is that dollars follow both power and votes, and that both power and votes are influenced by dollars.
ClassyPenguin
Banned
Not so surprising since most don't know the powers and limits of the branches ie IRS and Benghazi.
InsaneZero
Member
a blocked action by congress simply means that our great warhawk dictator obama can eliminate assad and the house in a justified defensive military action to protect the endangered executive power
afterwards he'll steal guns from our kids
afterwards he'll steal guns from our kids
NYCmetsfan
Banned
My statement wasn't that money doesn't play a part. I think it does and is the most poisonous part of the country's political system. But instead that there is often this understanding that a lobbyist comes in and buys a vote wholesale, its much more complex than that.
Black Mamba
Member
Checking in before I shuffle off to Vegas and Obama may lose the vote on Syria?
So Obama is so hated the GOP would opt to not bomb someone to spite him ?
This is amazing. Even I didn't think that was possible. Congress absorbs all the bad news to come out of Syria here on out. Otherwise, no one will care or remember this Syria scenario and now there is less time to debate debt ceiling and stuff. Haha.
I'm thinking the White House calculated this.
So Obama is so hated the GOP would opt to not bomb someone to spite him ?
This is amazing. Even I didn't think that was possible. Congress absorbs all the bad news to come out of Syria here on out. Otherwise, no one will care or remember this Syria scenario and now there is less time to debate debt ceiling and stuff. Haha.
I'm thinking the White House calculated this.
I dunno if they calculated this, but they probably saw it as an acceptable outcome.
empty vessel
Member
It used to be that putting a Democrat in the White House was the best way to ensure a war would occur. Now given the increasing radicalization of the Republican party along anti-Democratic lines (i.e., the radicalization is explicitly based on being anti-Democratic and anti-liberal), the best way to turn a Republican into a peacenik is to put a Democratic in the White House.
Black Mamba
Member
Lmao at Obama weak argument. If congress votes no and he abides, public will see him as bending to will of the people a d showing restraint. Mostly it will be forgotten.
GOP crowing that he is weak would be a very stupid approach. Indies will approve of what Obama did by a huge margin.
Bad jobs report today.
GOP crowing that he is weak would be a very stupid approach. Indies will approve of what Obama did by a huge margin.
Bad jobs report today.
I want to send iDrudgeReport.com instructions on setting up a new mobile bookmark icon.
Does anyone have experience with this?
Shh. Leave them be. If they can't be convinced to incorporate any tenets of modern web design into their actual site, I can't see a point in asking them about this.
The Librarian
Banned
I want pictures.
It's funny how a fan created iDrudge out of frustration that the main website lacks a mobile version. Yes, that's right. iDrudge isn't even affiliated with the regular website.
I actually think this is one of the least partisan votes in a while. There is a large democratic anti-intervention faction led by Alan Grayson. Obama has the support of most of the hawks and neocons. The authorization has been endorsed by McCain, Graham, Cantor and Boehner. Most of the Republicans that are against it are libertarian leaning or isolationist tea party types. I don't think you can simply lay this at the foot of simple obstructionism.
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
Black Mamba
Member
Oh please they are fake libertarians. If this was president Romney, he'd never ask for it. But if we pretend he did, the top would vote for it without question.
Btw guys, I'm going to a gun range for the first time. Does that now make me a real American finally?
At this point I am convinced it is some sort of an "anti intellectual" anti mainstream aesthetic. It is completely a choice, and not a matter of ignorance of web design norms.
ridethepiggy
Banned
Only if you walk in with a toothpick, a t-shirt with the American Eagle on one side and a pic of Ted Nugent on the other while hyming God Bless America.
I think it's a speed thing now. He knows nobody comes to his site because of the look, he just wants the fastest loading and fastest updating site(Just pop it in the HTML editor and replace one headline with another.)
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/06/u...skeptical-on-syria-attack.html?pagewanted=all
Amazing, Obama should propose some upper class tax cuts just to see how these people perform mental gymnastics.
Amazing, Obama should propose some upper class tax cuts just to see how these people perform mental gymnastics.
NYCmetsfan
Banned
The vote would be won with fake libertarians but there is a large contingent of people that are very much libertarians, its very real. Their lead by the pauls, chaffetzs , and amashs of the world.
But yeah I do think the numbers are there because Obama's in the white house. Rep. Grimms turn around is proof.
- Status