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PoliGAF 2013 |OT2| Worth 77% of OT1

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T

Tamanon

Banned
http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entry/mccain-obama-could-be-impeached-for-putting-boots

Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) said Thursday that President Barack Obama would run the risk of impeachment if he were to put "boots on the ground" in Syria.

McCain spoke to Phoenix KFYI radio host Mike Broomhead after getting grilled by constituents for supporting missile strikes on Syria at a pair of town halls. McCain specified that he did not favor sending American troops into Syria, however.

The Arizona Republican said he understood his constituents' skepticism in the wake of the Iraq War, but urged they "look at the facts."

"The fact is [President] Bashar Assad has massacred 100,000 people. The conflict is spreading … Iraq has now become a haven for al-Qaeda and the violence is greater than in 2008, the Russians are all in, the Iranians are all in, and it’s an unfair fight,” McCain said. “And no one wants American boots on the ground. Nor will there be American boots on the ground because there would be an impeachment of the president if they did that.”

He added that the president has "bungled" the response to Syria "beyond belief" by consulting Congress after anouncing he would strike Syria.
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McCain, the man who says that a military strike is not enough and we should do regime change. The man who said the President should not go to Congress on this. The man who openly calls for us to go to war....
 
N

NYCmetsfan

Banned
Style Fox said:
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/06/u...skeptical-on-syria-attack.html?pagewanted=all



Amazing, Obama should propose some upper class tax cuts just to see how these people perform mental gymnastics.
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“It’s going to be a ‘Red Dawn’ situation,” Ms. Dulaney said, referring to a film about a Russian takeover of the United States. “You see that movie? They’re going to come over here, on boats, on planes, and take over. Who’s going to defend us? We’re sending them all overseas.”
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This is what I fear.
 
R

remist

Member
Style Fox said:
This all sounds eerily familiar.

http://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/bill-clinton-aggressor
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Obama has already tried to draw this parallel, but I don't think it holds. The sectarian nature of the Syrian conflict and difference in makeup of the insurgents in Kosovo and the rebels in Syria alone make it a less than useful analogy. The Islamic brigades want no part of a secular democratic Syria and the Syrian National Coalition and it's interim government don't have the credibility to reconcile the two sides, protect minority Alawites and Christians from reprisals or keep Assad's chemical weapons stockpile out of the hands of terrorists. Our partners in Kosovo weren't as divided and had more credibility. Obama hasn't put forward a good strategy for a peaceful endgame in Syria and I don't think his proposed strikes are going to help.

Also we had broader NATO support when we went into Kosovo and although Russia voted against the UNSC resolution they agreed that Milosevic had to be removed and in the end helped us convince him to surrender. Our only strong ally in an attack on Syria is France.
 
T

thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
I understand where people are afraid of Obama's comments about having the power to act on Syria without congress, but I really think those comments were more to protect himself from criticism of past military actions and keep options open for other future military actions. I don't think he was saying that with the intention of ignoring what congress votes on Syria.
 
N

NYCmetsfan

Banned
thepotatoman said:
I understand where people are afraid of Obama's comments about having the power to act on Syria without congress, but I really think those comments were more to protect himself from criticism of past military actions and keep options open for other future military actions. I don't think he was saying that with the intention of ignoring what congress votes on Syria.
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This is exactly what it was. He doesn't want a repeat of the redline comment. Where he feels boxed in. This vote is about this strike.
 
R

ridethepiggy

Banned
Crazy Uncle Joe

Vice President Joe Biden lavished praise on Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano as he bid farewell Friday at her going away ceremony.

"I think Janet Napolitano should be on the Supreme Court of the United States," Biden said, as quoted by CNN.
Napolitano had been on President Barack Obama's shortlist of potential Supreme Court nominees in 2009 and 2010, but that distinction was ultimately bestowed upon Justices Sonia Sotomayor and Elena Kagan.

Napolitano stepped down from the Department of Homeland Security to lead the University of California system as its first-ever female president.
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W

Wilsongt

Member
R

remist

Member
Wilsongt said:
The Obama Effect. Become against anything that Obama wants.

As with most previous war happy people, they are all backing down from their idea.
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He's just repeating the administrations own absurd arguments. Apparently bombing the shit out of a country doesn't count as "hostilities" under the war powers resolution and therefore doesn't require congressional approval. Only when you have sustained exchanged of fire between troops(boots) on the ground does it become something that requires authorization. If he put boots on the ground without proving an imminent threat or getting approval within 60 days, then of course he would be in danger of impeachment.
 
W

Wilsongt

Member
Style Fox said:
Obama doesn't want boots on the ground though.
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remist said:
He's just repeating the administrations own absurd arguments. Apparently bombing the shit out of a country doesn't count as "hostilities" under the war powers resolution and therefore doesn't require congressional approval. Only when you have sustained exchanged of fire between troops(boots) on the ground does it become something that requires authorization. If he put boots on the ground without proving an imminent threat or getting approval within 60 days, then of course he would be in danger of impeachment.
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Ah... Well, in this case it may not exist. But in general The Obama Effect is strong.

He doesn't need to put soldiers down in Syria, anyway...
 
C

CoffeeJanitor

Member
Black Mamba said:
Checking in before I shuffle off to Vegas and Obama may lose the vote on Syria?

So Obama is so hated the GOP would opt to not bomb someone to spite him ?

This is amazing. Even I didn't think that was possible. Congress absorbs all the bad news to come out of Syria here on out. Otherwise, no one will care or remember this Syria scenario and now there is less time to debate debt ceiling and stuff. Haha.

I'm thinking the White House calculated this.
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Not everything has to be a political move.

(that sentence sounds weird)
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
APKmetsfan said:
Power is speaking at CAP

IMO doing a much better job at selling it than Kerry's over the top retoric

Important? OFA getting involved?
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When has OFA's involvement in anything non-election related ever been "important?"

Nobody's minds are being changed right now though, on either side of the aisle.
 
B

Black Mamba

Member
@KarlRove: Obama's policies leave longing for decisive George W. RT if you agree. http://t.co/SkY7Go4yIY
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iQgZ0uvnFmchG.gif
 
P

platypotamus

Member
Did you guys already discuss Chris Smith's proposal for a war crimes tribunal rather than bombing?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...e-to-bombing-syria-rep-chris-smith-thinks-so/

Chris Smith: I’ve worked on three different war crime tribunals over the years: The Yugoslavia tribunal, the Sierra Leone tribunal and the Rwanda tribunal. What I’ve seen is that if there’s the political will to go after people who have committed crimes against humanity, and if you have a dedicated team of prosecutors, then it’s a non-lethal way of holding people to account.

Already President Obama has said he won’t target Assad with missiles. Instead we’ll target 20-year-olds who might be on an air force base. I find that strange, that we’re not looking for regime change. Let’s go after the actual perpetrators.

A tribunal would be a non-lethal alternative to a bombing campaign — which no one knows how long it will last. During the House hearing [on Wednesday], I asked Secretary Kerry: How do you define “limited”? How do you define “short duration”? And he didn’t answer. There’s no sense that bombing will end this war. No one is even remotely suggesting that. And I’m equally concerned about a strike where there are consequences that have or haven’t been anticipated that could occur.
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Sounds a bit pie in the sky, but nice in magical dreamland.
 
N

NYCmetsfan

Banned
platypotamus said:
Did you guys already discuss Chris Smith's proposal for a war crimes tribunal rather than bombing?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...e-to-bombing-syria-rep-chris-smith-thinks-so/



Sounds a bit pie in the sky, but nice in magical dreamland.
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He brought this up at the hearing wednesday. Bringing charges before Assad is gone will only further cement his all-or-nothing thinking. It will accelerate his thinking. It sounds great but how are we gonna get the people responsible? Assad and his generals gonna turn themselves in?

Other leaders have been charged with War Crimes with nothing changing. Sudan's president was indicted by the ICC I believe, he's still governing.


Cheezmo since you follow the war pretty closely, who is Assad targeting his offensives towards? The FSA or the Jihadis?
 
CHEEZMO™

CHEEZMO™

Obsidian fan
APKmetsfan said:
Cheezmo since you follow the war pretty closely, who is Assad targeting his offensives towards? The FSA or the Jihadis?
Click to expand...

I never got the impression he gives a shit about that. He attacks where he's able and when he can. Given the carving up of territory a lot of his forces are cut apart and not able to form up and prosecute proper, large, strategic offensives. The closest to something like that would be what's going on in Homs for the last couple of months (heralded by Qusayr). But mainly, where they are attempting offensives it's on the sort of scale of trying to take one town at a time, and even then they have to flatten half of it before they can capture it.
 
O

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
So how will this change things?

President Obama's position on Syria -- punish President Bashar al-Assad for using chemical weapons without seeking to force him from power -- has been called "half-pregnant" by critics at home and abroad who prefer a more decisive American intervention to end Syria's civil war.

But Mr. Obama's limited strike proposal has one crucial foreign ally: Israel.
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http://maddowblog.msnbc.com/_news/2013/09/06/20358782-flipping-the-script-on-israel?lite
 
K

kingkitty

Member
Obama is going to address the nation on Tuesday. I doubt it'll do much. And if Congress bails, Obama will probably bail on the strikes, despite all the talk and jibber jabber. That's like committing seppuku when you didn't have to put yourself in that situation at all!
 
Angry Fork

Angry Fork

Member
Dax01 said:
Not sure I entirely believe that. Given what else is in your post, you seem to be talking about your own view of Obama voters.
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I am one of those dirty proles, I meant it as sarcastic and self-deprecating. I didn't vote in '08 but I enthusiastically supported Obama at the time.
 
TheLaughingStock

TheLaughingStock

Member
Sanky Panky said:
July jobs added were revised down to only 104k jobs added, and 516k people dropped out of the labor force during August. The labor force participation rate dropped to 63.2% from 63.4%, explaining the drop in the unemployment rate.
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Clearing up misinformation about QE would be helpful. So many investors are being played for suckers.
 
R

RustyNails

Member
Sanky Panky said:
July jobs added were revised down to only 104k jobs added, and 516k people dropped out of the labor force during August. The labor force participation rate dropped to 63.2% from 63.4%, explaining the drop in the unemployment rate.
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Horrible news for pretty much everyone. The next logical thing to do is not raise the debt ceiling and shut down the government.
 
N

NYCmetsfan

Banned
EK: The White House’s argument is that those whip counts don’t tell you much, that no one is a “no” until they actually vote that way. So do you think any of the briefings the White House is doing, or the possible prime-time speech, might change the numbers dramatically?

AG: When has the White House ever — ever — been able to turn around a vote? It hasn’t happened in the entire Obama administration; much less happened when the constituent mail is running 100-1 against. When nobody is paying attention, anything is possible. The president can offer you favors or employ moral suasion or enlist lobbies. But the public is watching and is extremely angry about the president’s position. In that kind of environment, the president doesn’t even have the tools.
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http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...ing-gun-that-the-attack-was-ordered-by-assad/
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
APKmetsfan said:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...ing-gun-that-the-attack-was-ordered-by-assad/
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Great interview, and sums up some of my problems with this.

I think conspiracy theorists are badly missing the mark here with some stupid reaches. A chemical attack happened, period. The second point should be that if the Syrian government carried out the attack, we should have evidence that Assad greenlit the operation - so far there is no such evidence. It could have been some rogue general or just a dumbass commander, we don't know. That's a better, more logical argument than "the CIA carried out the attack."

and while this is indeed troubling
http://www.emptywheel.net/2013/09/0...ize-of-first-cia-death-squads-to-enter-syria/

It takes quite a leap to suggest the CIA planted all this.
 
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