Support NeoGAF

[Diablos]

That's....not actually how it works. Obamacare is funded - for the most part - even if they shut the government down, beacuse most of the funding was not tied to annual appropriations. These people can't even delude themselves correctly.

lol Cruz is such an idiot. He can't possibly think doing that would make the House GOP's intentions any better off. THERE IS A DEMOCRAT IN THE OVAL OFFICE WHO WILL VETO IT.

But given the GOP's tenacity, the next time we have Republican President what's going to stop them from repealing for real? They have clearly put killing PPACA front and center on their domestic policy agenda... 40, 41 times now they have voted for full repeal.

 

[ridethepiggy]

Welp, it's over boys and girls. Obamacare will be defunded in the Senate

Most think it's a long shot that Senate Democrats will vote to defund Obamacare, even after the House approved a defund measure Friday, but at least one congressional Republican is expecting some divine intervention.

"I think there are senators who are going to find Jesus and do the right thing," Rep. Jim Jordan (R-OH) told CNN's Jake Tapper on Friday. Jordan quickly clarified, at Tapper's urging, that his metaphor was about the bill's passage and not about finding religion.

The House government spending bill passed 230-189. Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV) has said that the defund bill is dead on arrival in that chamber, and no Senate Democrats have publicly supported it. A Senate vote is expected sometime next week.

 

[Diablos]

.............

Why why why oh why can't Americans come to their senses and vote the GOP out of the House. WHY

 

[CHEEZMO™]

Wrap it up, Obamailures

 

[Wilsongt]

.............

Why why why oh why can't Americans come to their senses and vote the GOP out of the House. WHY

Gerrymandering, yo. They've effectively allowed themselves to sit there like a rotting, festering wound until 2020.

 

[Diablos]

Gerrymandering, yo. They've effectively allowed themselves to sit there like a rotting, festering wound until 2020.

I refuse to believe that. Am I in denial? I recall reading that despite the inherited advantage of having the upper hand on gerrymandering for the House GOPers, the advantage is not as profound as one would have originally thought. I can't remember the hard numbers but I do recall being surprised how big of a deal people made out of it.

Look at how many red seats flipped to blue in 2006. That can't be much harder today.

If they indeed hold it until 2020 then Democrats sure as hell better do every single thing they can to win the White House as an insurance policy against a band of loons who, once they would have a GOP President and/or Senate would proceed undo every single thing Obama passed and gut PPACA regardless of if the public wants it or not. The writing is on the wall CLEAR AS DAY what their priorities are.

 

[jamesinclair]

Speaking of Obamacare....

I just got an ad on youtube telling me to "opt out" because I shouldn't want Obama being my doctor

I just dont even.

How is the job market in Iceland these days?

 

[Tamanon]

Interesting to see the framing at work here. It's almost painfully unsubtle. "Reid's plan to fund Obamacare" is repeated at least three times in a tiny amount of space. I guess the idea is to frame it as though the status quo is Obamacare not being funded, and therefore any bill which doesn't include the defunding of Obamacare is an active attempt to change the status quo and fund Obamacare.

Obamacare Obamacare Obamacare.

Also extremely odd, because I thought the Senate couldn't bring its own bill for this?

 

[Oblivion]

I was watching an episode of Hardball from earlier in the week, and Matthews played a clip of Mitch McConnell at a fundraiser, attacking Obama for his ongoing Coalocaust (tm). He said something that I'm surprised I haven't heard anyone mention until now:

"Who do you want to be the leader of the U.S. Senate? A man who supports the Barack Obama agenda 100 percent — and by the way believes coal makes you sick — or a Kentuckian?

and by the way believes coal makes you sick

believes coal makes you sick

FUCKING SERIOUSLY?

 

[Diablos]

Speaking of Obamacare....

I just got an ad on youtube telling me to "opt out" because I shouldn't want Obama being my doctor

I just dont even.

 

[Angry Fork]

Congress hasn't done shit ever since republicans took over the house of representatives in January 2011.

Fuck conservatives, and fuck independents, and fuck everyone on the left who thinks they're "above" politics or that "both sides are the same"

They are the same on what matters most. Everyone is bitching about Obamacare, a neoliberal republican idea that still treats human life as a commodity. The left complains that the 2 parties are both within the pro-capitalist, anti-welfare state spectrum, which is true, with the exception of a minority of dems that have a backbone and don't close ranks around Obama on everything.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Appropriate given my last post about people needing to do something about corporations winning out over people:

http://www.salon.com/2013/09/20/rip_the_middle_class_1946_2013/

Noting too shocking or new, but clearly stated.

 

[Link]

That day will be November 4th, 2014.

#reversediablosing

It's gonna be a thing!

 

[NYCmetsfan]

That's....not actually how it works. Obamacare is funded - for the most part - even if they shut the government down, beacuse most of the funding was not tied to annual appropriations. These people can't even delude themselves correctly.

They know this. They're strategy is to shut the government down and somehow force Obama to really defund ACA as the price for the CR. It's not based in reality but they do understand that.

They're selling a false message to their base.

Obamacare Obamacare Obamacare.

I miss benghazi

 

[Diablos]

They know this. They're strategy is to shut the government down and somehow force Obama to really defund ACA as the price for the CR. It's not based in reality but they do understand that.

They're selling a false message to their base.
I miss benghazi

If the Senate strips the defunding of PPACA from the GOP bill, doesn't it have to go back to the House? Or am I getting confused here? Being on political blackout makes you forget a lot...

Spoiler

admittedly I am so disgusted with the process that it almost makes me want to forget a lot of things, sadly I still come out ahead of most Americans on political stuff

Also looking at the debt ceiling it really is incredible how high it is. Sometimes I wonder if default is inevitable. Man, I wish I was born in the 30's or 50's sometimes.

#reversediablosing

It's gonna be a thing!

...I'm not sure how this should make me feel :\

Vindicated?

But when my worrying gets closer to becoming reality that is in effect a nightmare. I'd rather be wrong in 2014 instead of right if you catch my drift.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Yes, once the senate eliminates the Obamacare defunding and sends it back to the House, we enter Stage 2. Boehner seems like he might try to then add something else - maybe the conscious clause discussed earlier, or a one year Obamacare delay.

 

[ridethepiggy]

Yes, once the senate eliminates the Obamacare defunding and sends it back to the House, we enter Stage 2. Boehner seems like he might try to then add something else - maybe the conscious clause discussed earlier, or a one year Obamacare delay.

And then we rinse and repeat. Man I love this game.

 

[Diablos]

Yes, once the senate eliminates the Obamacare defunding and sends it back to the House, we enter Stage 2. Boehner seems like he might try to then add something else - maybe the conscious clause discussed earlier, or a one year Obamacare delay.

God dammit.

 

[ridethepiggy]

From our dear friends over at RedState, I bring you

 

[empty vessel]

Also looking at the debt ceiling it really is incredible how high it is. Sometimes I wonder if default is inevitable. Man, I wish I was born in the 30's or 50's sometimes.

Come on, man, do you not read anything I post?

 

[Diablos]

Come on, man, do you not read anything I post?

Would you like me to? I'm flattered.

 

[ridethepiggy]

Also looking at the debt ceiling it really is incredible how high it is. Sometimes I wonder if default is inevitable. Man, I wish I was born in the 30's or 50's sometimes.

I don't know how your avatar hasn't been changed to this image.

 

[Samk]

Would you like me to? I'm flattered.

Obama explains it in terms everyone can understand

 

[PhoenixDark]

Diablos...

Boehner has assured K and Wall Street that he won't allow a default to occur. At the very worst they might allow the government to shut down, but will fold the minute Obama plays the social security card ("Government services will continue, such as social security checks, but eventually the shut down will put them in danger").

 

[ridethepiggy]

Diablos...

Boehner has assured K and Wall Street that he won't allow a default to occur. At the very worst they might allow the government to shut down, but will fold the minute Obama plays the social security card ("Government services will continue, such as social security checks, but eventually the shut down will put them in danger").

All Diablos sees from that is

'default to occur'

 

[The Librarian]

God, sometimes I wished I lived in the 50s too. Where it would be extremely difficult for me to be anything more than a secretary.

Sounds great.

 

[Diablos]

All Diablos sees from that is

'default to occur'

All I see is red.

I am pondering moving to a solidly blue state, though. Living in PA is so depressing. I could do it under the right circumstances. I'm in one of the most populated counties, too -- I can't imagine how horrible it must be day by day in the middle of the state. Don't even get me started on our state legislature. Even with Rendell everything in this state moves at a snail's pace. Everything.

So, like, NY or CA basically. Maybe Washington. I really fucking loved going to Washington.

God, sometimes I wished I lived in the 50s too. Where it would be extremely difficult for me to be anything more than a secretary.

Sounds great.

Think of all the social change in the 60's and beyond. Would have been an exciting time to be a young person. It's all relative...

 

[Gotchaye]

Yes, once the senate eliminates the Obamacare defunding and sends it back to the House, we enter Stage 2. Boehner seems like he might try to then add something else - maybe the conscious clause discussed earlier, or a one year Obamacare delay.

Well, the current plan is to not let it get that far. Now that the House has voted to fund the government and save us from Obamacare, Senate Republicans are supposed to filibuster the House bill because if the bill gets past that point in the Senate the Democrats can strip out the defund Obamacare language with a majority vote. The House is ready to cave* if the Senate doesn't do this (see all the recent anger at Ted Cruz) because even they realize this is pointless if the Senate's not on board. So right now it's looking like Senate Republicans are going to be forced to fight to keep the government from being funded and to save Obamacare, or else be deemed not True Conservatives.

*In the sense that Boehner could get away with bringing a CR without a defunding Obamacare bit to the floor by blaming it on Cruz's lack of balls.

Edit: Note that the party establishment does not want a government shutdown. Cruz is to some extent a convenient scapegoat here, but he's made it possible for the House to eventually pass a CR that doesn't require concessions from the Democrats, regardless of whatever bits of theater occur between now and then.

 

[Wilsongt]

Speaking of Obamacare....

I just got an ad on youtube telling me to "opt out" because I shouldn't want Obama being my doctor

I just dont even.

How is the job market in Iceland these days?

Well, the Cock brothers are trying to penetrate a form of media used by younger people? How awful.

 

[Diablos]

Well, the current plan is to not let it get that far. Now that the House has voted to fund the government and save us from Obamacare, Senate Republicans are supposed to filibuster the House bill because if the bill gets past that point in the Senate the Democrats can strip out the defund Obamacare language with a majority vote. The House is ready to cave* if the Senate doesn't do this (see all the recent anger at Ted Cruz) because even they realize this is pointless if the Senate's not on board. So right now it's looking like Senate Republicans are going to be forced to fight to keep the government from being funded and to save Obamacare, or else be deemed not True Conservatives.

*In the sense that Boehner could get away with bringing a CR without a defunding Obamacare bit to the floor by blaming it on Cruz's lack of balls.

Edit: Note that the party establishment does not want a government shutdown. Cruz is to some extent a convenient scapegoat here, but he's made it possible for the House to eventually pass a CR that doesn't require concessions from the Democrats, regardless of whatever bits of theater occur between now and then.

Aw for fuck's sake. I can't believe this is our government.

 

[RustyNails]

This is actually a great piece of political theatre by Boehner. He basically called Ted Cruz' bluff, satisfying teanuts in the congress and gets to work out a serious proposal with democrats after children go to sleep.

 

[Oblivion]

That's....not actually how it works. Obamacare is funded - for the most part - even if they shut the government down, beacuse most of the funding was not tied to annual appropriations. These people can't even delude themselves correctly.

Here's Lindsey Graham explaining why you're wrong:

GOP Sen. Lindsey Graham joked on Tuesday that the inescapable fact that shutting down the government will not stop Obamacare was merely a "technical" detail that doesn't interest Republicans bent on a shutdown. [...]

"That's a technical thing," Graham (R-S.C.) quipped when a HuffPost reporter asked if he or anybody in the Senate had told the backers of a shutdown that they can't actually block Obamacare by shutting down the government.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Well, the current plan is to not let it get that far. Now that the House has voted to fund the government and save us from Obamacare, Senate Republicans are supposed to filibuster the House bill because if the bill gets past that point in the Senate the Democrats can strip out the defund Obamacare language with a majority vote. The House is ready to cave* if the Senate doesn't do this (see all the recent anger at Ted Cruz) because even they realize this is pointless if the Senate's not on board. So right now it's looking like Senate Republicans are going to be forced to fight to keep the government from being funded and to save Obamacare, or else be deemed not True Conservatives.

*In the sense that Boehner could get away with bringing a CR without a defunding Obamacare bit to the floor by blaming it on Cruz's lack of balls.

Edit: Note that the party establishment does not want a government shutdown. Cruz is to some extent a convenient scapegoat here, but he's made it possible for the House to eventually pass a CR that doesn't require concessions from the Democrats, regardless of whatever bits of theater occur between now and then.

True. I'm assuming the filibuster will be DOA in the senate. Some seem concerned about Graham flip flopping but I think the votes will be there to end this nonsense. McCain sounds like he wants to body slam Cruz..

 

[ridethepiggy]

True. I'm assuming the filibuster will be DOA in the senate. Some seem concerned about Graham flip flopping but I think the votes will be there to end this nonsense. McCain sounds like he wants to body slam Cruz..

McCain, Collins, Murkowski are pretty much grantees to not go along with the filibuster IMO. Basically need one or two more.

 

[pigeon]

True. I'm assuming the filibuster will be DOA in the senate. Some seem concerned about Graham flip flopping but I think the votes will be there to end this nonsense. McCain sounds like he wants to body slam Cruz..

I'm really impressed by Ted Cruz's ability to troll literally everybody in Washington to the point of personal anger and rage. He makes you look like an amateur, PD.

 

[Chichikov]

I refuse to believe that. Am I in denial? I recall reading that despite the inherited advantage of having the upper hand on gerrymandering for the House GOPers, the advantage is not as profound as one would have originally thought. I can't remember the hard numbers but I do recall being surprised how big of a deal people made out of it.

Look at how many red seats flipped to blue in 2006. That can't be much harder today.

If they indeed hold it until 2020 then Democrats sure as hell better do every single thing they can to win the White House as an insurance policy against a band of loons who, once they would have a GOP President and/or Senate would proceed undo every single thing Obama passed and gut PPACA regardless of if the public wants it or not. The writing is on the wall CLEAR AS DAY what their priorities are.

More votes were cast to Democratic candidates the Republicans in the 2012 house election.
Remember, this country is pretty evenly divided, even in landslide elections, large part of the population vote for the losing party.
If it wasn't for gerrymandering, the GOP would have most likely lost control of the house in the last election (or at the very least had a slim majority that would've prevented them from doing half of this bullshit).

Also looking at the debt ceiling it really is incredible how high it is. Sometimes I wonder if default is inevitable.

ZOMG LARGE NUMBERS!!!!!!!!!
Out of curiosity, what value would make you sleep well at night?

Man, I wish I was born in the 30's or 50's sometimes.

Oh, right, you're trolling.
I can only blame myself.

 

[platypotamus]

I'm really impressed by Ted Cruz's ability to troll literally everybody in Washington to the point of personal anger and rage. He makes you look like an amateur, PD.

I get the feeling that he has realized his political career is already over, and is just setting the ground work to rake it in Palin style.

 

[ridethepiggy]

I get the feeling that he has realized his political career is already over, and is just setting the ground work to rake it in Palin style.

I hope he realizes that he doesn't have a chance in hell in 2016.

 

[Link]

McCain, Collins, Murkowski are pretty much grantees to not go along with the filibuster IMO. Basically need one or two more.

From her recent statements and the fact that she's in a blue state, Ayotte could be added to that list. Of course, that comes with the stipulation that Republicans often say one thing and then do another.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Ayotte has already said she thinks the defund plan is bad. She'll likely follow McCain.

I get the feeling that he has realized his political career is already over, and is just setting the ground work to rake it in Palin style.

Nah he's on the 2016 train no doubt. But his clout amongst the true believers is about to take a big hit lol.

You know who looks like the smartest crazy person right now? Rand Paul. Kept his mouth shut, was never involved int he Cruz/Lee/Rubio clown car, and when it all comes crashing down he'll be unscathed.

 

[B-Dubs]

Ayotte has already said she thinks the defund plan is bad. She'll likely follow McCain.



Nah he's on the 2016 train no doubt. But his clout amongst the true believers is about to take a big hit lol.

You know who looks like the smartest crazy person right now? Rand Paul. Kept his mouth shut, was never involved int he Cruz/Lee/Rubio clown car, and when it all comes crashing down he'll be unscathed.

Rand will implode under the slightest scrutiny though.

 

[GhaleonEB]

The Economic Club of New York has canceled a coming speech by Fed Vice Chairwoman Janet Yellen as the White House moves closer to selecting a new head of the central bank.

The group said Friday that the Oct. 1 speech by Ms. Yellen had been called off but gave no reason.

Calculated Risk thinks the nomination will be announced on Monday.

This is a good example of why Obama needs more pressure from the left. He was basically cornered into making the correct decision, against the advice of those he has surrounded himself with.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

Calculated Risk thinks the nomination will be announced on Monday.

This is a good example of why Obama needs more pressure from the left. He was basically cornered into making the correct decision, against the advice of those he has surrounded himself with.

This was a special case where pressure on the left was able to work since it bypassed the house. Yellen still isn't the best, but she's the best of available in the current political reality.

 

[GhaleonEB]

This was a special case where pressure on the left was able to work since it bypassed the house. Yellen still isn't the best, but she's the best of available in the current political reality.

That was my sense as well. I need to do more reading about her - I've only read a bit in the past few weeks - but my impression was the left rallied around her in part because they were so aghast at the alternative (Summers) and felt she was their best shot at pushing an alternate candidate.

 

[Oblivion]

Speaking of which, I heard Yellen supported repealing Glass-Steagal. Why do we like her again?

 

[PhoenixDark]

Yellen saw the housing crisis before many of her colleagues, especially the Summers/Geithner types. And during Obama's first term she continued to harp on the damage the housing market was doing while his administration did...whatever they were doing. The festering damage it did, and the White House's failure to address it, is one of the major reasons we are where we are right now.

Also Yellen is more of an advocate for the fed attempting to address unemployment than Summers.

I can't think of anyone who has fallen up more than Summers. You would think that someone who deliberately hid information from his boss (the president) would not only be on a fast track towards losing his job, but certainly wouldn't be considered for a promotion. And yet Obama planned on giving him one of the most powerful positions in the world...why exactly? Loyalty? It reeks of pure cronyism and just the type of insular economic policy that ruined much of the first term, and has led to an almost blasé view of the current state of the economy. "The economy is growing, the worst is over...now anyone want to pass a Pre-K bill?"

 

[bonercop]

Speaking of which, I heard Yellen supported repealing Glass-Steagal. Why do we like her again?

It's a mark against her, for sure. But she did push back against other dergulation efforts in the same time period.

Also: Summers didn't "support" Glass-Steagal's repeal as much as being as playing an instrumental role in getting the law through.

 

[The Librarian]

Speaking of which, I heard Yellen supported repealing Glass-Steagal. Why do we like her again?

Eh. Take a look at Dylan Matthews' blog post about the law.

That's pretty airtight, and could be difficult for banks to get around. If enforced strictly, it could require major banks to spin off investment (and insurance) divisions, greatly reducing their size and scale.

Maybe that's how to do it, but it's worth remembering why 20 and 32 went away in the first place. The theory was that allowing different kinds of financial activity would allow companies to diversify their risk. If investment banking is tanking one month and commercial banking's doing all right, then the latter can blunt the impact of the former. That reduces risk, rather than exacerbating it. That obviously didn't happen, but that doesn't mean the underlying idea was necessarily wrong.

Macey, for one, thinks we should have repealed parts 16 and 21, rather than 20 and 32. That way individual commercial and investment banks could diversify their activities without buying each other up and becoming huge mega-banks. Combined with a bill capping the size of banks, along the lines of the Brown-Kaufman amendment, a "Glass-Steagall swap" of that sort could result in small-enough-to-fail banks while preserving whatever diversification advantage Gramm-Leach-Bliley was supposed to produce.

So it really matters what problem Warren-McCain is meant to solve. If its intent is to break up the big banks, then there's a question of whether or not we should just cap the size of them, rather than dictating what kind of banking the now-smaller banks can and can't engage in. If the intent is to split up investment and commercial banking, regardless of scale, then it's worth considering whether the privacy and other benefits of that are outweighed by the diversification advantages of merging different kinds of financial businesses.​

 

[Diablos]

More votes were cast to Democratic candidates the Republicans in the 2012 house election.
Remember, this country is pretty evenly divided, even in landslide elections, large part of the population vote for the losing party.
If it wasn't for gerrymandering, the GOP would have most likely lost control of the house in the last election (or at the very least had a slim majority that would've prevented them from doing half of this bullshit).

I know I know. We can take it back though. WE CAN DO THIS. Maybe not in 2014 but 2016. People have to realize how toxic the GOP is. Maybe after they see Obamacare working for them they will (as though it were not easy enough to begin with) pinpoint where the misleading rhetoric is coming from and start to see the GOP for what they really stand for at the end of the day.

ZOMG LARGE NUMBERS!!!!!!!!!
Out of curiosity, what value would make you sleep well at night?

I don't know, but we desperately need more revenues and I'm still baffled as to how there is not a huge grassroots progressive movement in this country. The only solutions we have are Democratic ideas the Republicans would never go with and Paul Ryan's wet dream of slashing and burning everything that will magically make everything profitable in another 30 years. It's a dire situation. Clinton-era 39.6% tax rates are great but it still isn't enough. Should be at Reagan-era levels at the very least.

Oh, right, you're trolling.
I can only blame myself.

I am not trolling anyone. The 50's in particular would have been interesting because you would have been able to witness so much social progress in a short span of time. I realize things were really shitty for minorities, gays, etc. but relative to that era in time a lot of things happened. Had to feel so fucking empowering as a human being. Today, everything is increasingly calculated.

And I would have loved to live through the FDR years just to witness liberals sticking it to the GOP and corporate suits in ways that have yet to be seen ever since. We desperately need that again.

 

[Chichikov]

I don't know, but we desperately need more revenues and I'm still baffled as to how there is not a huge grassroots progressive movement in this country. The only solutions we have are Democratic ideas the Republicans would never go with and Paul Ryan's wet dream of slashing and burning everything that will magically make everything profitable in another 30 years. It's a dire situation. Clinton-era 39.6% tax rates are great but it still isn't enough. Should be at Reagan-era levels at the very least.

What problem specifically do you think the public debt is causing and what do you think the appropriate level of it should be?

I am not trolling anyone. The 50's in particular would have been interesting because you would have been able to witness so much social progress in a short span of time. I realize things were really shitty for minorities, gays, etc. but relative to that era in time a lot of things happened. Had to feel so fucking empowering as a human being. Today, everything is increasingly calculated.

And I would have loved to live through the FDR years just to witness liberals sticking it to the GOP and corporate suits in ways that have yet to be seen ever since. We desperately need that again.

The 30s fucking sucked man, you want to go through the great depression and go fight in World War 2?
And the 50s?
Come on man, the internet was crazy slow back then.