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[PhoenixDark]

Don't like the mandate change as it's mostly a political ploy. Fucking own up to it.

Anyway, Sean hannity spent his entire hour on the duck dynasty thing. lol

Funny how those so obsessed with the constitution and business have so little understanding of either. Employees aren't allowed to say whatever the fuck they want when representing their company, or when at work. If you made anti-gay or...insensitive comments about black people (I'm not going to call him racist, personally) at work, chances are your HR rep will call you into his office.

 

[Oblivion]

Wonder if all the people who are defending the Duck dude on first amendment grounds were saying the same things about Martin Basher.

 

[Link]

I'll need help with that, since the only one I can recall is the VRA thing.

I can think of one.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

So about christie in the primaries?

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/20/n...tuition-for-undocumented-immigrants.html?_r=0

 

[Trouble]

So about christie in the primaries?

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/20/n...tuition-for-undocumented-immigrants.html?_r=0

Eh, he pushed back and got the provision about financial aide. His entire platform is going to be about actually getting stuff done, so it kinda fits the narrative.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

Eh, he pushed back and got the provision about financial aide. His entire platform is going to be about actually getting stuff done, so it kinda fits the narrative.

Because the GOP base has shown a willingness to put 'getting things done' above no compromises?

 

[PhoenixDark]

So about christie in the primaries?

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/20/n...tuition-for-undocumented-immigrants.html?_r=0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bA9m3IG99s

RIP. I'll give him dap for not giving a shit though.

 

[speculawyer]

Wonder if all the people who are defending the Duck dude on first amendment grounds were saying the same things about Martin Basher.

Well, the Bible doesn't advocate shitting in Sarah Palin's mouth. At least not explicitly.

 

[Trouble]

Because the GOP base has shown a willingness to put 'getting things done' above no compromises?

I think he's calculating that enough primary GOP voters will. I kinda doubt it, but who knows.

 

[B-Dubs]

Eh, he pushed back and got the provision about financial aide. His entire platform is going to be about actually getting stuff done, so it kinda fits the narrative.

It'll still sink him in the primary.

 

[Karakand]

Funny how those so obsessed with the constitution and business have so little understanding of either. Employees aren't allowed to say whatever the fuck they want when representing their company, or when at work. If you made anti-gay or...insensitive comments about black people (I'm not going to call him racist, personally) at work, chances are your HR rep will call you into his office.

Sean Hannity understands fiduciary duty, he's just being a court philosopher.

e: Can't speak for Your Average Crybaby Bigot, though. I'm honestly shocked at the Business 101 stuff people don't or won't understand.

 

[KingK]

I'll need help with that, since the only one I can recall is the VRA thing.

Don't have to limit it to the Supreme Court. I'm sure there were some wacky circuit court rulings this year.

I can think of one.

And there's this and Zimmerman's trial was earlier this year, iirc.

 

[Avon Barksdale]

Eh, he pushed back and got the provision about financial aide. His entire platform is going to be about actually getting stuff done, so it kinda fits the narrative.

It did wonders for Rick Perry.

you guys read the hack list for this year?

http://www.salon.com/topic/the_hack_list/

some damn good choices. had no idea the dude from buzz feed was a raging tea partier. colors a lot of the idiocy that goes on with those gifts and listicals.

It's like Deadspin's NBA Shit List, only with politics.

 

[Zona]

Funny how those so obsessed with the constitution and business have so little understanding of either. Employees aren't allowed to say whatever the fuck they want when representing their company, or when at work. If you made anti-gay or...insensitive comments about black people (I'm not going to call him racist, personally) at work, chances are your HR rep will call you into his office.

My Facebook is blowing up with this. I think the misunderstanding of the first amendment that's so prevalent is one of my larger pet peeves.

 

[Dr. Pangloss]

I would not count Christie out. Guy is not afraid to push back and knows how to campaign. Why would he want to market himself as tea party candidate #6? He just needs to do his own thing and stake out his market share why the others fight for the drags. He also does not suffer from some of Romney's weaknesses. People will actually believe him. He will have enough money from the financial service industry. And since white men dominate the Republican party, his bombastic style will appeal to them. He can't be written off here in December 2013. He has more of a chance than some that did run: Fred Thompson or Rudy Giuliani.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

I would not count Christie out. Guy is not afraid to push back and knows how to campaign. Why would he want to market himself as tea party candidate #6? He just needs to do his own thing and stake out his market share why the others fight for the drags. He also does not suffer from some of Romney's weaknesses. People will actually believe him. He will have enough money from the financial service industry. And since white men dominate the Republican party, his bombastic style will appeal to them. He can't be written off here in December 2013. He has more of a chance than some that did run: Fred Thompson or Rudy Giuliani.

He's got a shot and don't like how its a complete dismissal from some, but I really think he's gonna have a lot of trouble.

He's not what the base really wants. Its kind of a repeat of 2008 the democratic big wigs were all in love with hillary but the base wanted a clean break.

they got their way. Its gonna be a fight but I think Christie is gonna have to really fight for it. I'm still think Rand is likely.

 

[B-Dubs]

He's got a shot and don't like how its a complete dismissal from some, but I really think he's gonna have a lot of trouble.

He's not what the base really wants. Its kind of a repeat of 2008 the democratic big wigs were all in love with hillary but the base wanted a clean break.

they got their way. Its gonna be a fight but I think Christie is gonna have to really fight for it. I'm still think Rand is likely.

I agree with this and everyone also needs to remember how abrasive he can be. It plays in Jersey because that's how they are and no one pushes him quite as hard as they will in the primary.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

I agree with this and everyone also needs to remember how abrasive he can be. It plays in Jersey because that's how they are and no one pushes him quite as hard as they will in the primary.

I don't think its his style thats the problem. The gop is found of pushy people when they agree, I think his self-rightousness in pushing his views will be what hurts him. He can't go to South Carolina and tell them what to think, that's not how it works in the south. People don't like being told what to think or whats good for them

 

[B-Dubs]

His self-righteousness is part of his style though. That's part of why Jersey likes him. Jersey is all about abrasive people that aren't afraid to tell you what they think no matter the consequences. Christie is New Jersey, the good and the bad, and he won't play outside of that state for that reason.

 

[adamsappel]

BEST ACCIDENTAL SOURCE MATERIAL BACKFIRE:

Rand Paul and Gattaca.

 

[empty vessel]

He can't go to South Carolina and tell them what to think, that's not how it works in the south. People don't like being told what to think or whats good for them

I'd say it's the exact opposite. People in the South LOVE being told what to think. The problem for Christie is that somebody has already gotten to them first.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

I'd say it's the exact opposite. People in the South LOVE being told what to think. The problem for Christie is that somebody has already gotten to them first.

I'd disagree.

 

[Diablos]

Quinnipiac - Pennsylvania Governor


The guy who's losing in all (but one) of those matchups is Tom Corbett.

Basically all the Dems here in PA have to do is ensure their candidate is from Philly. They didn't do that in 2010 and paid for it dearly.

I do think it will end up being Schwartz.

 

[The Librarian]

4.1% GDP growth?

 

[NYCmetsfan]

4.1% GDP growth?

socialism™

 

[Dr. Pangloss]

I don't think that is how Christie is going to play out. He's not stupid. He's not going to come into the primary states and tell them how it's going to be. What he will do is probably pick up some clear issues that he will not compromise on that the base likes, i.e. taxes. The other times he will be highlighting what he has gotten done and asking what do people want? Do they want someone that promises pie in the sky ideas (He can say that this person is acting like Obama in 2008). Or do they want someone that can actually deliver?

I can see him telling someone, "Fine, don't vote for me. I'm not what you want. I'm someone that actually does things." Not going around telling others that it's his way or the highway. You have to remember that the primaries are all about where they stand on issues, and Christie has to get out in front and define himself first. He has to make it clear that he has some red lines but that he is also willing to compromise in order to achieve results.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

I don't think that is how Christie is going to play out. He's not stupid. He's not going to come into the primary states and tell them how it's going to be. What he will do is probably pick up some clear issues that he will not compromise on that the base likes, i.e. taxes. The other times he will be highlighting what he has gotten done and asking what do people want? Do they want someone that promises pie in the sky ideas (He can say that this person is acting like Obama in 2008). Or do they want someone that can actually deliver?

I can see him telling someone, "Fine, don't vote for me. I'm not what you want. I'm someone that actually does things." Not going around telling others that it's his way or the highway. You have to remember that the primaries are all about where they stand on issues, and Christie has to get out in front and define himself first. He has to make it clear that he has some red lines but that he is also willing to compromise in order to achieve results.

That's the problem.

 

[Sirpopopop]

Wonder if all the people who are defending the Duck dude on first amendment grounds were saying the same things about Martin Basher.

Or for that matter the asshole who got fired from his job after his Chick Fil A comments went viral. (The one who tried to "own" a Chick Fil A employee by ordering a water)

I mean Fox News is in an uproar over Phil Robertson, yet they were all too happy to see the Chick Fil A guy fired.

 

[Dr. Pangloss]

That's the problem.

Be more specific. I don't think the base is as big as you think. This is still the party that put up these people in the last decade:

Bush - Mr. Compassionate Conservative
McCain - Mr. Maverick
Romney - Mr. Flip Flopper

It is not the tail wagging the dog. It's the dog wagging the tail. The ultra right base is not the majority. They are the most vocal though. Christie will be fine with whatever moderates still inhabit the Republican Party.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

Be more specific. I don't think the base is as big as you think. This is still the party that put up these people in the last decade:

Bush - Mr. Compassionate Conservative
McCain - Mr. Maverick
Romney - Mr. Flip Flopper

It is not the tail wagging the dog. It's the dog wagging the tail. The ultra right base is not the majority. They are the most vocal though. Christie will be fine with whatever moderates still inhabit the Republican Party.

Romney didn't have credible opposition. And the other two were pre-tea party.

Look at all the primaries since 2010, look at Bennett, Dewhurst, Castle, Lowden, Murkowski, Crist, Lugar all losing primaries. I think the party has changed.

Christie will face viable opponents that are more appealing to the base. The base in previous elections was much more concerned with social issues as the litmus test but now its about doing anything that reeks of compromise with Obama or current democrats, Christie has a problem with that. I think he can win its just gonna be hard and he has his work cut out for him.

Your bold? Those are now 'independents'. The best chance Christie has got is the party changing the rules of primary which they do seem inclined to do

 

[Tamanon]

Romney didn't have credible opposition. And the other two were pre-tea party.

Look at all the primaries since 2010, look at Bennett, Dewhurst, Castle, Lowden, Murkowski, Crist, Lugar all losing primaries. I think the party has changed.

Christie will face viable opponents that are more appealing to the base. The base in previous elections was much more concerned with social issues as the litmus test but now its about doing anything that reeks of compromise with Obama or current democrats, Christie has a problem with that. I think he can win its just gonna be hard and he has his work cut out for him

I dunno, I fail to see how Cruz and Paul are that much more viable a candidate than Santorum was. I don't see Christie winning, but I don't think it'll be because of opposition.

 

[The Librarian]

I went to bed last night before reading the Wonkblog article about it. Hmmm. As long as the individual mandate delay is temporary and used sparingly, I guess it's okay. Still weary about it.

 

[GhaleonEB]

4.1% GDP growth?

Inventory growth was a big part of it. Some decent numbers in the mix but I'm expecting Q4 to be pulled down as inventories are drawn down.

I went to bed last night before reading the Wonkblog article about it. Hmmm. As long as the individual mandate delay is temporary and used sparingly, I guess it's okay. Still weary about it.

As Wonkblog put it in the next article: "Republicans will immediately begin calling for the uninsured to get this same exemption."

Which would unravel the entire law. Obama won't go there but by retreating to that point he's weakened the law incrementally. If they hold the line here however then I think it will weather the first year. The second year of the exchanges should be very different.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

Inventory growth was a big part of it. Some decent numbers in the mix but I'm expecting Q4 to be pulled down as inventories are drawn down.

Not only inventory

Real final sales growth was revised up to 2.5% from last month's weak estimate of 1.9%.

This was largely driven by personal consumption growth, which was revised up to 2.0% from 1.4%.

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/real-final-sales-revised-to-25-2013-12#ixzz2o25JC2bw

 

[GhaleonEB]

Not only inventory

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/real-final-sales-revised-to-25-2013-12#ixzz2o25JC2bw

The revisions were not inventory related, and are the good news I was referring to. Definitely a good report. I'm just not expecting the party to continue as I don't think the inventory build will be permanent.

This is from last month's revision:

GDP SURGES ON MASSIVE BUILD IN INVENTORIES

Inventories increased $116.5 billion according to the second estimate, contributing 1.7 percentage points to the headline number, up from an initial estimate of $86 billion, which had contributed 0.8 percentage points to the initial 2.8% GDP growth estimate.

From what I've read so far today, the inventory was little revised while other elements were revised up. But inventory build was still about 40% of the growth story.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

I dunno, I fail to see how Cruz and Paul are that much more viable a candidate than Santorum was. I don't see Christie winning, but I don't think it'll be because of opposition.

Cruz, no

Paul, yes.

Paul can run a grassroots Obama type, small donor campaign. Walker can also challenge Christie as he's not had to compromise as much and can brag about him not 'giving in.' Rubio is tainted but his compromise didn't go through. Ryan as well. Abd you also have dark horses in Martinez or Jindel.

 

[The Librarian]

As Wonkblog put it in the next article: "Republicans will immediately begin calling for the uninsured to get this same exemption."

Which would unravel the entire law. Obama won't go there but by retreating to that point he's weakened the law incrementally. If they hold the line here however then I think it will weather the first year. The second year of the exchanges should be very different.

Huh. We know the law has built-in buffers for insurers if enough people don't sign up, so I think it'll be fine...just as long as they don't give up anymore. It's worrying.

 

[Tamanon]

Cruz, no

Paul, yes.

Paul can run a grassroots Obama type, small donor campaign. Walker can also challenge Christie as he's not had to compromise as much and can brag about him not 'giving in.' Rubio is tainted but his compromise didn't go through. Ryan as well. Abd you also have dark horses in Martinez or Jindel.

I don't see it for Paul. The RNC is pretty damn good at quashing grass-roots stuff. I see him being marginally more successful than his dad.

 

[Dr. Pangloss]

Romney didn't have credible opposition. And the other two were pre-tea party.

Look at all the primaries since 2010, look at Bennett, Dewhurst, Castle, Lowden, Murkowski, Crist, Lugar all losing primaries. I think the party has changed.

Christie will face viable opponents that are more appealing to the base. The base in previous elections was much more concerned with social issues as the litmus test but now its about doing anything that reeks of compromise with Obama or current democrats, Christie has a problem with that. I think he can win its just gonna be hard and he has his work cut out for him.

Your bold? Those are now 'independents'

Can you name one time Christie compromise with Obama? He works for a state, not the federal government. Obama will not be on the ticket in 2016. Republicans will be too worry about Hillary to care about him. If you are going to point to Hurricane Sandy, then Christie can fall back on his efforts to repair the damage and that's good ground for him. He is an executive that can fix problems. He can also highlight his accomplishments: winning in a blue state, lowering taxes, and sticking it to the teachers unions. What Republicans are not going to love that?

As for your primary people:

Bennett - Ousted at an off year Republican Convention, did not get a primary
Dewhurst - won the original primary against Cruz who had to split with the other tea partiers, there are no run offs in presidential politics
Castle - lost in an off year where only 57,000 voted in the primary
Lowden - You are really going to cite this terrible candidate: barter system, bring a chicken to a doctor Nevada dodged a bullet.
Murkowski - lost a primary 2010 against a Palin backed candidate. Height of both Palin's and Tea Party's power. Still won the general that year
Crist - lost due to his support of the stimulus and Rubio being a better campaigner, Christie never voted for stimulus or Obamacare
Lugar - got hammered for his relationship with Obama (been that way since Obama was a Senator), also was his 7th reelection, they wanted a change, also was attacked for not really living in Indiana and was described as part of the Washington establishment, Christie is not from Washington though they could highlight Wall Street connections but why attack businesses?

 

[NYCmetsfan]

Can you name one time Christie compromise with Obama? He works for a state, not the federal government. Obama will not be on the ticket in 2016. Republicans will be too worry about Hillary to care about him. If you are going to point to Hurricane Sandy, then Christie can fall back on his efforts to repair the damage and that's good ground for him. He is an executive that can fix problems. He can also highlight his accomplishments: winning in a blue state, lowering taxes, and sticking it to the teachers unions. What Republicans are not going to love that?

As for your primary people:

Bennett - Ousted at an off year Republican Convention, did not get a primary
Dewhurst - won the original primary against Cruz who had to split with the other tea partiers, there are no run offs in presidential politics
Castle - lost in an off year where only 57,000 voted in the primary
Lowden - You are really going to cite this terrible candidate: barter system, bring a chicken to a doctor Nevada dodged a bullet.
Murkowski - lost a primary 2010 against a Palin backed candidate. Height of both Palin's and Tea Party's power. Still won the general that year
Crist - lost due to his support of the stimulus and Rubio being a better campaigner, Christie never voted for stimulus or Obamacare
Lugar - got hammered for his relationship with Obama (been that way since Obama was a Senator), also was his 7th reelection, they wanted a change, also was attacked for not really living in Indiana and was described as part of the Washington establishment, Christie is not from Washington though they could highlight Wall Street connections but why attack businesses?

I'm not dismissing him just attempting to say his way forward isn't as easy as people (news media) seem to think.

 

[Avon Barksdale]

Be more specific. I don't think the base is as big as you think. This is still the party that put up these people in the last decade:

Bush - Mr. Compassionate Conservative
McCain - Mr. Maverick
Romney - Mr. Flip Flopper

It is not the tail wagging the dog. It's the dog wagging the tail. The ultra right base is not the majority. They are the most vocal though. Christie will be fine with whatever moderates still inhabit the Republican Party.

Bush got fewer votes than the guy he beat and McCain and Romney lost.

 

[Dr. Pangloss]

I'm not dismissing him just attempting to say his way forward isn't as easy as people (news media) seem to think.

Or as impossible.

Bush got fewer votes than the guy he beat and McCain and Romney lost.

All won the Republican nomination. First steps first.

 

[Wilsongt]

Ted Cruz opens mouth. Shit flies out. As per usual.

Not to be outdone, Cruz, R-Texas, wrote on his Facebook page, "The reason that so many Americans love Duck Dynasty is because it represents the America usually ignored or mocked by liberal elites: a family that loves and cares for each other, believes in God, and speaks openly about their faith.

"If you believe in free speech or religious liberty, you should be deeply dismayed over the treatment of Phil Robertson. Phil expressed his personal views and his own religious faith; for that, he was suspended from his job. In a free society, anyone is free to disagree with him - but the mainstream media should not behave as the thought police censoring the views with which they disagree."

These people wouldn't understand irony and logic if it body slammed them into oblivion.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

Or as impossible.

Agree

 

[PhoenixDark]

I don't see it for Paul. The RNC is pretty damn good at quashing grass-roots stuff. I see him being marginally more successful than his dad.

Paul has been very smart in the senate. He made peace with McConnell and outside of his brilliant drone filibuster, he hasn't stirred trouble in the senate lately. Meanwhile Cruz has insulted the GOP establishment and led them into a government shutdown that could have been harmful if not for the ACA roll out being a disaster.

I've talked with people setting up for Paul's campaign in Michigan. They "get" Ron Paul's impressive grass roots model, and Rand has successfully won over the hearts of many activists. They have the potential to blow away other conservative campaigns, which won't feature many young minds or have the Internet presence Paul commands.

Not saying Paul will win, but if anyone can modernize GOP campaign politics it's him. Meanwhile Cruz will also have heavy grass roots support, but no infrastructure. Plus sooner or later he's going to get taken down by his own party.

 

[The Librarian]

Ted Cruz opens mouth. Shit flies out. As per usual.



These people wouldn't understand irony and logic if it body slammed them into oblivion.

Also includes historical revisionism!

 

[NYCmetsfan]

 

[Hitokage]

You can't even walk down the street in white robes and hood anymore. It's awful!

 

[Trouble]

 

[B-Dubs]

Paul has been very smart in the senate. He made peace with McConnell and outside of his brilliant drone filibuster, he hasn't stirred trouble in the senate lately. Meanwhile Cruz has insulted the GOP establishment and led them into a government shutdown that could have been harmful if not for the ACA roll out being a disaster.

I've talked with people setting up for Paul's campaign in Michigan. They "get" Ron Paul's impressive grass roots model, and Rand has successfully won over the hearts of many activists. They have the potential to blow away other conservative campaigns, which won't feature many young minds or have the Internet presence Paul commands.

Not saying Paul will win, but if anyone can modernize GOP campaign politics it's him. Meanwhile Cruz will also have heavy grass roots support, but no infrastructure. Plus sooner or later he's going to get taken down by his own party.

The problem with Paul is his inability to deal with a scandal. If he runs something will come up, he'll inevitably handle it badly and it will explode in his face.