Coriolanus
Banned
Hasn't the administration accepted by now that any afghan solution will involve long term negotiations with the Taliban? If so, seems highly unlikely that they'd do such a thing.
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PoliGAF 2014 |OT| Kay Hagan and the Terrible, Horrible, No Good, Very Bad News
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Hasn't the administration accepted by now that any afghan solution will involve long term negotiations with the Taliban? If so, seems highly unlikely that they'd do such a thing.
It wouldn't shock me at all if we did blow them up at a later date. Not immediately but far enough in the future to where we can call it an accident. We didn't mean to blow them up, we were aiming for all those other terrorists. Honest.
PhoenixDark
Banned
Yup, guys I wouldn't want to see free. They aren't low level people.
TW Shannon...I'd love to see him in the senate just to expose how ugly this new breed of black republicanism is. I have no qualms with black conservatives, it's a social and economic ideology with no racial limits. However Allen West, Cain, and many others exist solely to say shit white people couldn't say about blacks without getting in trouble. It's quite a disgusting scam, and I'd like for Americans to see it up close.
It's also quite sad to see the Chickasaw Nation throw all their weight behind him just because he's half-Chickasaw.
The tribe stands for the complete opposite of "small government, fuck you I've got mine" conservatism. They take care of their people, unlike *some* governments.
speculawyer
Member
Any poligaffers seen this? as a australian I'd say it's a excellent representation of our current PM.
John Oliver is kicking ass with that show.
WayneMorse
Banned
Any poligaffers seen this? as a australian I'd say it's a excellent representation of our current PM.
One year Tony. Bring on that double dissolution!
So, just like FDR?
Zero-Crescent
Member
Figure it's either that or they could use the potential tracker to find any hiding spots or movement patterns. Thinking outside the tracker theory, it's also possible that they may not be able to return to their former positions. The profiles posted above show that they (or more importantly, the three who didn't claim to have turned) have been at GB for 12-13 years. That's 13 years of being out of power and (presumably) out of the loop; even if they were "respected," it'll be tough for them to get their old position back if someone else has been filling it. Power struggle or figurehead position would await. Assuming that they don't get assassinated during that year in Qatar.
speculawyer
Member
Pfft. Whatever. This will all be forgotten. The prisoner exchange is a great two-fer . . . get back one of our missing soldiers AND get rid of a few Gitmo residents. Perhaps we should have traded a few more of them away.
BTW, anyone think it was pure coincidence that the EPA rules came out on the Monday after a Cosmos episode on climate change? Great episode BTW, watch it. I just wish it had mentioned solar PV instead of so much concentrated solar power.
Avon Barksdale
Member
So basically, Monday.
He's making up for the fact that it was a short work week last week.
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
What were our long term plans with those prisoners anyhow? Would it even be possible to convict them of anything in our own courts? I would assume not or else why haven't they done so yet? It's not like they have a ton more great info to give 10 years after they were detained.
How long after the Afghanistan war is over are we planning to keep Gitmo running? It seems to me the inevitable future was for those prisoners to be released anyway, and probably within the next 5 years.
How long after the Afghanistan war is over are we planning to keep Gitmo running? It seems to me the inevitable future was for those prisoners to be released anyway, and probably within the next 5 years.
It'll stay open until Congress decides to start making sense. So always, it'll always be there.
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
I can't say for sure, but I really does seem like the President does have the power to do it their self if they really want to. I mean Obama obviously did just release 5 prisoners without congress's approval.
It wont happen right away, but after the wars start becoming a distant memory I think someone like Hillary would do what she has to, to finally end that chapter of american history.
Congress passed a law forcing Guantanamo to stay open in what felt like Obama's second week on the job. It was one of the first things he tried to do and both parties came together to stop him. I remember this because half of NYC wanted to put them on trial and the other half thought they were goddamn super-villains. Sadly fear won out over justice.
Also, trading 5 prisoners for a POW is a little different than shutting the place down.
I agree that eventually we'll be able to close it, but probably not anytime soon.
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
I see. Oh well, unless we get another big attack, there's no way the fear can last forever.
He did it to recover a soldier who was being held captive, and he's still getting shit for it from congress.
Somehow, doing releasing the whole gang willy nilly wouldn't fly over too well. The administration has been trying to end this through congress.
When he signed the 2014 NDAA in december he explicitly said he wouldn't be limited if need be.
http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/index.php?pid=104530
I remember it pretty clearly because Peter King, who is the congressman for an area just outside the city limits, was on like every newscast saying how putting them on trial would put us all at risk of a bombing or a sniping or something, meanwhile it felt like everyone in the city limits wanted to drag them to the courthouse personally.
I now understand the frustration some within PoliGAF feels when a minimum wage thread pops up in the OT section. So much "Fuck you, I got mine", "boots-straps!!", "Why should you survive off minimum wage?", "Retail isn't a career!", or some variation of those. And this is coming from, I assume, younger people. So, any sort of notion I had that this mentality would die down anytime soon was clearly mistaken.
Coriolanus
Banned
Half of the US still thinks socialism is some sort of great satan.
Yeah, that target thread is going great. Wouldn't be so quick to assume that it's mostly young ones with those views, tho.
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Thanks for that kehs, warms the heart to see him still pursuing that goal.
This prison swap is already getting ridiculous. I'll just have to say that these prisoners weren't just released without a plan in place or purposeful release for servalence by the the CIA. Unfortunately we can never know the real reason for their release at least in the near future which makes it hard to counter the whole bullshit that they are going to be running with terrorists in a month.
Coriolanus
Banned
I'm pretty sure that they're hoping that the released start doing that as soon as possible.
These former prisoners will be under constant watch.
And if people are crying about how dangerous they were/are then perhaps we should have fucking charged them with something. THEY WERE THERE SINCE 2002.
Chances are they're a bit rusty; they've been hanging out at Gitmo for 12 years. The entire prison should be closed and burned to the fucking ground anyway.
And if people are crying about how dangerous they were/are then perhaps we should have fucking charged them with something. THEY WERE THERE SINCE 2002.
Chances are they're a bit rusty; they've been hanging out at Gitmo for 12 years. The entire prison should be closed and burned to the fucking ground anyway.
zero shift
Banned
Any poligaffers seen this? as a australian I'd say it's a excellent representation of our current PM.
Holy fuck! This president is a character.
The New Deal, abandoning the gold standard, and government jobs programs (especially those that aren't military focused) are hardly "right wing".
While Obama's intentions with the new EPA rules are in the right place, he's going to face a phenomenal amount of backlash because of it. All you have to do is spread misinformation that the price of energy will go out and everyone will be up in arms, despite the fact that energy costs for the consumer go up for stupid reasons already YOY.
PhoenixDark
Banned
I bet dems up for re-election are just thrilled Obama dropped this on them, 6 months before the midterms.
Avon Barksdale
Member
The elections are five months away.
Aaron Strife
Banned
Obama's approval is up a little in a new WaPo/ABC poll, 46-51 app/dis compared to 41-52 at the end of April. This is about in line with the pollster average which has it at 45-51.
Not great but not terrible. If Friday's job report matches economist expectations then U.S. employment will have beaten pre-recession levels. Hopefully good economic news, good Obamacare news and general GOP shittery will give Democrats an okay election year.
Also Mitch McConnell is sunk. He's flailing hard on Obamacare. It could be worse though, he could be Tom Corbett
Not great but not terrible. If Friday's job report matches economist expectations then U.S. employment will have beaten pre-recession levels. Hopefully good economic news, good Obamacare news and general GOP shittery will give Democrats an okay election year.
Also Mitch McConnell is sunk. He's flailing hard on Obamacare. It could be worse though, he could be Tom Corbett
speculawyer
Member
Pffft. That should be ignored. Just point out that this is executive responsibility as commander in chief and thus Congress has no role.
speculawyer
Member
Well, the new EPA regulations could give him new life . . . but hopefully that will all be forgotten by election time.
And fuck coal. There really should be a war on coal. Move fast to get off it here and we should get together with Europe to put carbon tariff on Chinese goods until they reduce their coal usage. Emphasize the all the non-climate change aspects of coal . . . mine collapses, mine explosions, black lung diseased, mountaintop removal, fly-rock, strip-mining, streams being destroyed, coal dust from transporting coal, mercury emissions, lead emissions, arsenic emissions, SO2 emissions, coal ash ponds leaching heavy metals, coal slurry spills, radioactive coal ash, etc. It is just nasty stuff from start to finish . . . and we just don't need it anymore.
No more freedom hotdogs sweating it out atop coals on the fourth of july.
cryingeagle
Doubt McConnell's going to get too much mileage out of it since Grimes came out really strongly against it as well. She was all over the Louisville TV news.
speculawyer
Member
Sure . . . but her party (wisely) respects the science that says we should move away from coal.
These 'coal country' regions really need to find a different base industry. I dont know . .. forestry, manufacturing, mineral mining . . . . something.
speculawyer
Member
WayneMorse
Banned
A big victory for Tom Wolf could flip both the houses of the legislature too. Maybe not all hope is lost for 2014!
Also coal country has gone hard right against Obama and the Dems since 2009 so the new coal rules won't change much in Kentucky.
RustyNails
Member
If you are a proponent of Obama's 11th dimension chess theory, it actually helps vulnerable democrats in east and northeast where there is abundance of coal. It gives vulnerable democrats a makeshift punching bag of Obama which they can pound away in front of their constituents and gain approval for going against Obama who is unpopuar in those states.
PhoenixDark
Banned
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/mike-rodgers-disputes-obama-consulted-congress-prisoner-swap
Just doesn't make sense. What's the point of this decision? They didn't know it would backfire, given how ridiculous the right has acted over Benghazi? Now they create a legit cause for complaint to get a photo-op for the "last POW" who just so happens to be a deserter who willingly left base?
speculawyer
Member
Oh that's cute. I should try that with my daughter as an experiment.We go all the way, or we do nothing.
But it is much easier to install a solar PV system and fire up the george foreman grill.
Solar PV is killing solar thermal. I've even talked to some hardcore guys that figure it is easier to just install more solar PV and have an electric water heater than to do a solar thermal water heating system which will eventually leak or require maintenance.
But solar thermal is nice in that you can easily do some short-term storage . . . they can continue operating after the sun has gone down due to heat stored in molten salt.
speculawyer
Member
Man-up. Just say that a POW prisoner swap is part of the Executive Branch's exclusive authority as commander in chief in conducting military operations. End of story.
RustyNails
Member
It will backfire on GOP for being dickwads on an american POW. Write it down.
It takes like 30 minutes to cook a hot dog and it's gotta be like 105F at noon. (was my science project in elementary).
Totally side with you with thermal not being really that beneficial.
Might be better off using those smaller weiners though to cook faster.
PhoenixDark
Banned
I'm fine with that, and yes you can argue the law that was signed into the NDAA was bullshit. In fact I wouldn't be surprised at all if republicans added it with this POW in mind. However that doesn't explain to me why this was done, the benefit, or why the administration would want another fight to deal with on top of the others. By the end this will be decided down partisan lines with 48 for it, 48 against it. And once this guy starts popping off and complaining about America the numbers will shift for the worst.
NYCmetsfan
Banned
The thing that is annoying me the most with the rights reaction to the POW scandal is this is framed is "terrorists" for a solider. You label something enemy combatant or terrorists and they become a super villain where the normal rules don't apply. Its not a POW trade, instead it gets transformed into 'Negotiating with terrorist.'
We didn't. We negotiated with a political movement we are fighting that occasionally uses terrorism. The people we captured were government officials until we invaded, they are NOT AQ. A horrible illegitimate government who used terror and harbored terrorists. But besides hosting AQ, is the basic outline of that government different than many elements of Pakistan, Saudi Arabia or the African countries we do business with?
This is the problem with Gitmo, it lets us forget any semblance of rules, norms and history and allows people to use language to shift away what's actually happening which is a completely lawless system of locking people up for eternity
These people were horrible people and I wish they were brought to justice for their crimes, but you can't just label who you don't like terrorists harp on all the bad things they've done and lock them up in perpetuity with out having them facing justice and the charges they have against them. I despise the overuse of terrorist in common parlance.
Edit:
I wrote this in response to this shit from probably the most annoying rightwing site going right now (all they do is troll, its a bunch of 30 white dudes getting off on being politically incorrect and people getting offended)
http://freebeacon.com/blog/the-lefts-reaction-to-bowe-bergdahls-release-is-outrageous/
Hayes' tweet was accurate. The right opposed any realistic solution to getting bergdahl back. They felt it was better to leave him there than make this deal whats the other option, rescues and risk more deaths for a "deserter" in their words. And they've before called for his death due to desertion. And the putting on bergdahl those deaths seems unseemly. The Taliban killed them.
And these are the people the administration is trading they seemed to have been trying to get in the US's allies good graces but something something terrorists!:
We didn't. We negotiated with a political movement we are fighting that occasionally uses terrorism. The people we captured were government officials until we invaded, they are NOT AQ. A horrible illegitimate government who used terror and harbored terrorists. But besides hosting AQ, is the basic outline of that government different than many elements of Pakistan, Saudi Arabia or the African countries we do business with?
This is the problem with Gitmo, it lets us forget any semblance of rules, norms and history and allows people to use language to shift away what's actually happening which is a completely lawless system of locking people up for eternity
These people were horrible people and I wish they were brought to justice for their crimes, but you can't just label who you don't like terrorists harp on all the bad things they've done and lock them up in perpetuity with out having them facing justice and the charges they have against them. I despise the overuse of terrorist in common parlance.
Edit:
I wrote this in response to this shit from probably the most annoying rightwing site going right now (all they do is troll, its a bunch of 30 white dudes getting off on being politically incorrect and people getting offended)
http://freebeacon.com/blog/the-lefts-reaction-to-bowe-bergdahls-release-is-outrageous/
Hayes' tweet was accurate. The right opposed any realistic solution to getting bergdahl back. They felt it was better to leave him there than make this deal whats the other option, rescues and risk more deaths for a "deserter" in their words. And they've before called for his death due to desertion. And the putting on bergdahl those deaths seems unseemly. The Taliban killed them.
And these are the people the administration is trading they seemed to have been trying to get in the US's allies good graces but something something terrorists!:
Coriolanus
Banned
You're proposing that Bams actually come out and explain that yes, we will deal with the Taliban after calling them terrorists for more than a decade. That we've ALWAYS negotiated with terrorists if they're big enough.
How does the media report on Hezbollah nowadays? Would go over even worse than that.
While that is a point that should eventually be raised, yeaaah, best wait for the midterm elections before you open that can of worms.
How does the media report on Hezbollah nowadays? Would go over even worse than that.
While that is a point that should eventually be raised, yeaaah, best wait for the midterm elections before you open that can of worms.
It's not like Obama doesn't have a history of negotiating with terrorists... I mean, he negotiates with the Tea Party branch of the GOP all the time.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Negotiation implies both parties end up with something they want...
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