• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

PoliGAF 2014 |OT| Kay Hagan and the Terrible, Horrible, No Good, Very Bad News

Status
Not open for further replies.
W

Wilsongt

Member
PhoenixDark said:
You still don't understand...

Midterms break down state by state, candidate by candidate. Black turnout may be rising in midterms when measured nationally, but does that mean black turnout is rising in North Carolina? Arkansas? Louisiana? Michigan? IE the states that will decide who wins the senate, as well as which party manages to lose the least amount of seats in the House. And even if it were rising in those states, will it translate to people coming out to vote for those candidates? Are black people excited about Mark Pryor?

The problem for democrats is that a lot of these states have high black, youth, and Hispanic unemployment rates. NC especially. Which is why democrats are talking about impeachment nonstop, and why Al Sharpton literally talks about it every hour on his radio show every day (my mom is an avid listener of his). Impeachment talk fires up the base, specifically black voters who feel Obama is being mistreated, and the hope is that they come out and support democrats. This may work to a degree but ultimately this is year 6 and democrats still can't motivate their base with any actual accomplishments. You've got states like Kentucky where HALF the uninsured are now covered yet Grimes won't talk about Obamacare, and voters are leaning McConnell's way despite his blatant calls for full repeal.

In short, that's why I think democrats are in trouble. The base is hurting, and probably disillusioned after 6 years of this shit.
Click to expand...

and you know why this is the case.

In other words:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ZHhwxoW8laA#t=10
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
Aaron Strife said:
di_05812.jpg
Click to expand...
For the record I think Peters will win handily. But I think Michigan is a great example of a state that will suffer from lower black turnout and a continued march of right wing wins across the state, including governor.
 
A

Aaron Strife

Banned
PhoenixDark said:
For the record I think Peters will win handily. But I think Michigan is a great example of a state that will suffer from lower black turnout and a continued march of right wing wins across the state, including governor.
Click to expand...
Oh that reminds me, your man Snyder's going to lose.

And so is Walker.
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
More Senate Democrats urge Obama to delay immigration order

More top Democrats are pressuring President Barack Obama to slow down on immigration reform, further diminishing the chances that he’ll take sweeping administrative action before Election Day.

Sen. Bill Nelson (D-Fla.) wants Obama to wait until after November. Sen. Al Franken (D-Minn.) said he has “concerns about executive action.” Sen. Angus King (I-Maine), who caucuses with Democrats, said it would be a “mistake” for the president to do anything significant.

Until now, few Democrats have been willing to break publicly with Obama over his vow to issue an executive order on immigration. Democratic incumbents in this year’s most competitive Senate races have already voiced concern, but the calls from others to hold off on acting suggests Democrats are growing even more anxious about the decision and its potential to upend the fight for control of the Senate.

(Also on POLITICO: The man who could upend 2014)

White House officials have been locked in an intense debate over whether Obama should announce a program to defer deportations for millions of undocumented immigrants before Election Day. A delay would mark a major reversal from June, when the president stood in the Rose Garden and pledged to issue an order by the end of the summer, and it would infuriate the Hispanic community.

But the flagging support among senators is particularly worrisome to the White House, which will be reluctant to make such a controversial move without the strong backing of congressional Democrats.
Click to expand...
Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2014/09/obama-immigration-order-110624.html#ixzz3CT7GEurH
 
T

Treechopper

Member
AndyD said:
Many argue that a lot of the money being spent on militarizing the border (which is a lot) could be put to much better use helping these "refugees". The thing is that sending them back is not a permanent solution, as many of the children interviewed say this is not the first attempt at this. And a good amount of the money spent on these attempts actually comes from their families in the US.

So by focusing on legalization of their families who are already here, then on reuniting these families, you both get to keep income earned here spent here, and you reduce the need for infinitely recurring spending on the border.

Is it perfect and easy? No. But it seems far better than the revolving buses and flights we do now.
Click to expand...
I'll have to read up on repeated border-crossers and their families. If you know of any links off the top of your head, I'd love to take a look at them.

KingGondo said:
It's deflection, honestly. There's a humane and costly option (foreign aid to improve conditions in Central America along with reasonable accommodations to the refugees), and there's an inhumane and still costly option (repeated deportation as the humanitarian crisis worsens and we have to seriously deal with the problem at a later date).
Click to expand...
Such a sad situation :/

Thank you both for your replies. Just looking to get a better understanding of what's going on.
 
W

WayneMorse

Banned
Also Feingold's defeat in 2010 was the greatest political tragedy since Wellstone's death and fuck every single Democrat in Wisconsin who stayed home in 2010.
 
W

WayneMorse

Banned
I think Obama is pretty much a modern day Truman, by contemporary accounts his administration is a mixed bag but it'll grow more favorably as time goes by.
 
A

Aaron Strife

Banned
WayneMorse said:
Also Feingold's defeat in 2010 was the greatest political tragedy since Wellstone's death and fuck every single Democrat in Wisconsin who stayed home in 2010.
Click to expand...
Not to trivialize Wellstone's death, but I'd agree with this. Wellstone's passing marked the beginning of a particularly nasty stretch in politics where Congress - both parties but the GOP moreso - was dominated by warmongers. And we're still dealing with it even today as the media is begging Obama to go to war with someone.

Meanwhile Feingold losing is the symbol of a post-Citizens United America, where the line between moneyed interests and politicians has been completely obliterated. Feingold, someone who built his entire political career around keeping money out of politics lost to a shady CEO. Not only that but Walker was elected on the same day.

No but seriously fuck Wisconsin. Electing Baldwin is the only decent thing they've done in the last five years.
 
V

Vahagn

Member
ICKE said:
http://www.gallup.com/poll/124922/presidential-approval-center.aspx

Is this for real? 38% approval rating.
Click to expand...

Republicans won the messaging war a long time ago. Avoiding catastrophic wars turned into "leading from behind". Rebuilding a shattered economy from the brink of collapse turned into "an anemic recovery, Carter like economic results". Even his signature piece of legislation which is doing a world of good was pigeonholed as "Big Government and a lie about keeping your doctor"


It's going to take some time but people will realize he A) Killed a crapton of terrorists including Bin Ladin B) Brought our economy back to a ~5.3% unemployment C) Cut the deficit in half D) Avoided a plethora of new decade long war quagmires.


Aaron Strife said:
That was /s

I like to think of myself as pretty pragmatic. Ex. Cheering the potential addition of another Lieberman to the Senate (Orman)
Click to expand...

The smartest thing he did was adopt Individual Mandate. He defeated Romney on that day because he took the one conservative idea out of their hands. Any other plan, and Romney would have successfully run on "I can fix healthcare, Just use my plan" and the idiotic sheeplike Republicans would have rallied behind him and actually supported a plan they've been loathing and hating the last 4 years. Not to mention, ANYTHING more Liberal than Individual Mandate would probably be thrown out by the Supreme Court as unconstitutional, virtually guaranteeing a loss in November.

Unless you want a Romney Presidency with no hope of health care reform in sight, you're damn glad he did Individual Mandate.
 
A

Aaron Strife

Banned
WayneMorse said:
People fall for right wing populist rhetoric more easily it seems.
Click to expand...
But it sounds so good! Low taxes, no one has to pay for anyone else, we're all on our own.

Republican policy is political bumper stickers. None of that bullshit works.

What really pisses me off is when it's passed off as common sense. Yeah, and pizza is delicious, I bet if I go on an all-pizza diet I'll have a six pack.

original.jpg
 
E

ErasureAcer

Banned
ICKE said:
http://www.gallup.com/poll/124922/presidential-approval-center.aspx

Is this for real? 38% approval rating.
Click to expand...

In the Ferguson thread I declared Obama's approval would fall to 35% because of his lukewarm response to Mike Brown's slaying by the hand of Darren Wilson and no charges filed and the militarization of police busting heads and detaining people with no charges.

He's doing 3 points better than expected. If I got the call whether or not I approve/disapprove...I'd answer disapprove as well. Until he reigns in the NSA...I don't care what he does...I disapprove.
 
V

Vahagn

Member
70% the people who disapprove of his Presidency are racist bigots who formed or joined a Tea Party when they realized a Black Guy who doesn't hate Black People got elected. As if we haven't seen that reaction in our nation's history before.


The rest wanted a savior and instead got a pragmatic, well intentioned, pretty damn good President. But complexity escapes them. It's fine, just like Bill and Hillary, he'll be far more popular a few years after he's out of office.

ErasureAcer said:
In the Ferguson thread I declared Obama's approval would fall to 35% because of his lukewarm response to Mike Brown's slaying by the hand of Darren Wilson and no charges filed and the militarization of police busting heads and detaining people with no charges.

He's doing 3 points better than expected. If I got the call whether or not I approve/disapprove...I'd answer disapprove as well. Until he reigns in the NSA...I don't care what he does...I disapprove.
Click to expand...

Dude passed more executive actions limiting the NSA than any one probably ever, even if they were mostly cosmetic. 40 Year Career NSA/CIA Agents don't give two shits who the President is, they go along doing what they're doing anyway.

Assuming he can reign in the NSA with this uncooperative Congress, it would be a gamble with catastrophic negative potential. He reigns it in, some kind of attack happens, NSA/Republicans use it to spin that they could have stopped it, and he's forever labeled as a President who cared more about his popularity than his solemn duty to protect the nation. It's stupid, and total BS, but that narrative would catch hold and stay with him forever.
 
D

dabig2

Member
Americans will get the government they deserve. That's really all I have to say when it comes to these mod term elections and Obama's approval ratings.
 
J

JesseEwiak

Member
Aaron Strife said:
Not to trivialize Wellstone's death, but I'd agree with this. Wellstone's passing marked the beginning of a particularly nasty stretch in politics where Congress - both parties but the GOP moreso - was dominated by warmongers. And we're still dealing with it even today as the media is begging Obama to go to war with someone.

Meanwhile Feingold losing is the symbol of a post-Citizens United America, where the line between moneyed interests and politicians has been completely obliterated. Feingold, someone who built his entire political career around keeping money out of politics lost to a shady CEO. Not only that but Walker was elected on the same day.

No but seriously fuck Wisconsin. Electing Baldwin is the only decent thing they've done in the last five years.
Click to expand...

Eh, Feingold brought a knife to a gun fight. If he hadn't been wedded to his purity, maybe we'd have to depend on one less red state Senator winning to keep the Senate majority.
 
T

thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
WayneMorse said:
"Government is borrowing too much from China on our children's dime!"
Click to expand...
Therefore we should cut benefits for everyone. Except for people over the age of 60 of course, since they should be grandfathered in.

And our economic policies should mostly benefit those who are advanced in their careers and making more money while not doing much to help people just starting out. Its their fault for being too lazy to have 25 years of experience in their field despite only being 25 years old. And raise the minimum wage? Isn't it mostly kids working those jobs anyway?

Also ignore the fact that the income and wealth gaps between the young and old is the largest it's been since the great depression. I'm sure it's their fault for being worthless. Just ignore the fact that it's also the most educated generation this country has ever seen.

But yeah, thank god conservatives are there to think of the children.
 
C

Crisco

Banned
Approval ratings don't mean dick anymore. The only people who answer those calls are ones who want to complain. As for progressives who still whine about drones, the NSA, and "kowtowing to Wall Street": you are part of the problem. Do you think President Ted Cruz is going to make things better? Or President Rick Perry? Please don't say Rand Paul either, he isn't a legitimate candidate and even he knows it. Obama has advanced the progressive agenda more than any President since JFK at least, and probably FDR if you really want to be honest. The only reason he hasn't been able to do more is because you dickheads were too busy wearing your tinfoil hats and posting on salon.com to get off your asses in 2010.
 
T

thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
Crisco said:
Approval ratings don't mean dick anymore. The only people who answer those calls are ones who want to complain. As for progressives who still whine about drones, the NSA, and "kowtowing to Wall Street": you are part of the problem. Do you think President Ted Cruz is going to make things better? Or President Rick Perry? Please don't say Rand Paul either, he isn't a legitimate candidate and even he knows it. Obama has advanced the progressive agenda more than any President since JFK at least, and probably FDR if you really want to be honest. The only reason he hasn't been able to do more is because you dickheads were too busy wearing your tinfoil hats and posting on salon.com to get off your asses in 2010.
Click to expand...
You act like obama lost the 2012 election. It's an approval rating, not an election poll. You can express a negative feeling of him in conversation and opinion polls all you want and that doesn't make you an advocate for President Ted Cruz or too stupid to understand why strategic voting is necessary.

Also it's funny to see how you call Ted Cruz and Rick Perry legitimate candidates while saying Rand Paul is not. At least pick Christie, Ryan, or Bush if you're going to dismiss Paul like that.
 
B

Bam Bam Baklava

Member
The question we have to ask ourselves is why. Is it because the world isn't peacefully holding hands and Obama is to blame? Is it because while the economy has improved people expect more? More income? More growth? Is it due to the vilification of Obamacare?

It makes you wonder if President's can retain any sort of popularity in an environment of 24/7 news cycle scrutiny and the internet.
 
benjipwns

benjipwns

Banned
Also, don't blame me, I didn't vote in 2008 either.

Aaron Strife said:
Meanwhile Feingold losing is the symbol of a post-Citizens United America, where the line between moneyed interests and politicians has been completely obliterated. Feingold, someone who built his entire political career around keeping money out of politics lost to a shady CEO.
Click to expand...
But Feingold spent more than Johnson did...

Vahagn said:
Assuming he can reign in the NSA with this uncooperative Congress, it would be a gamble with catastrophic negative potential. He reigns it in, some kind of attack happens, NSA/Republicans use it to spin that they could have stopped it, and he's forever labeled as a President who cared more about his popularity than his solemn duty to protect the nation. It's stupid, and total BS, but that narrative would catch hold and stay with him forever.
Click to expand...
Yeah, it's terrible that someone can't do the right thing because others will say mean things about him.

He's not Kobe, man.
 
B

Bam Bam Baklava

Member
benjipwns said:
Yeah, it's terrible that someone can't do the right thing because others will say mean things about him.

He's not Kobe, man.
Click to expand...

He does the right thing. No Democrat gets elected for the next 20 years because of "that one time Obama/Dems let terrorists win and kill Americans" and we end up with NSA^100 programs.
 
W

Wilsongt

Member
Oh boy, oh boy, oh boy.

In a new book about the 2012 attack on the U.S. consulate in Benghazi, a group of American commandos who were tasked with guarding the compound claim they were ordered to stand down during the attack, preventing them from rescuing Ambassador Christopher Stevens and others who were trapped inside. The book, titled 13 Hours, is scheduled to be released next week, but a copy was obtained by David Kirkpatrick of The New York Times.

According to the book, five members of a private security team say an unidentified CIA station chief ordered them not to intervene (against their protests) as the consulate was under attack by militants. The commandos say they eventually disobeyed the order, but not soon enough to save Stephens and another American who were both killed.

The group of commandos eventually did engage with fighters at the compound later that evening. Two members of the security team — former Navy SEALS who were hired as private contractors — were also killed in the fighting.
Click to expand...
 
benjipwns

benjipwns

Banned
Bam Bam Baklava said:
He does the right thing. No Democrat gets elected for the next 20 years because of "that one time Obama/Dems let terrorists win and kill Americans" and we end up with NSA^100 programs.
Click to expand...
That was George W. Bush's excuse too.

It's a false choice and more properly illustrates how they don't actually want to do the right thing.
 
V

Vahagn

Member
benjipwns said:
Also, don't blame me, I didn't vote in 2008 either.


But Feingold spent more than Johnson did...


Yeah, it's terrible that someone can't do the right thing because others will say mean things about him.

He's not Kobe, man.
Click to expand...

Clever!

Right thing? He didn't create the policy or the agency. He's passed executive actions above and beyond what anyone else would have done and taken the info out of their hands and stored it in private companies (which is worse fyi) but what people on the right were clamoring for. The Dudes not a member of Anonymous and he didn't create Big Brother, and nothing he does will stop it at all. At best it will delay some data gathering until the next US Attack at which point people will overreact and hand the country over to Neo-Cons again.


In a new book about the 2012 attack on the U.S. consulate in Benghazi, a group of American commandos who were tasked with guarding the compound claim they were ordered to stand down during the attack, preventing them from rescuing Ambassador Christopher Stevens and others who were trapped inside. The book, titled 13 Hours, is scheduled to be released next week, but a copy was obtained by David Kirkpatrick of The New York Times.

According to the book, five members of a private security team say an unidentified CIA station chief ordered them not to intervene (against their protests) as the consulate was under attack by militants. The commandos say they eventually disobeyed the order, but not soon enough to save Stephens and another American who were both killed.
Click to expand...

This is just fodder for the right. Something is going to come out about these guys being disgruntled, being private commandos, not obeying protocol, and this shit will be shut down.
 
benjipwns

benjipwns

Banned
Vahagn said:
Right thing? He didn't create the policy or the agency. He's passed executive actions above and beyond what anyone else would have done and taken the info out of their hands and stored it in private companies (which is worse fyi) but what people on the right were clamoring for.
Click to expand...
It's funny to have the Truman comparison on the top of this page.
 
B

Bam Bam Baklava

Member
benjipwns said:
That was George W. Bush's excuse too.

It's a false choice and more properly illustrates how they don't actually want to do the right thing.
Click to expand...

I'm just trying to state how all of this works. If you wanna blame someone, blame our society as a whole. Polling showed the NSA thing wasn't a big deal to the vast majority.
 
benjipwns

benjipwns

Banned
Bam Bam Baklava said:
I'm just trying to state how all of this works. If you wanna blame someone, blame our society as a whole. Polling showed the NSA thing wasn't a big deal to the vast majority.
Click to expand...
Yeah, yeah, we can't blame anyone in power it's just society and the system that makes them do it all and lie and cheat and steal, they can't do anything about it the poor dears, oh, but make sure to re-elect those people in power or else it'll be worse because those other guys actually are to blame!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

  • Locked
PoliGAF 2017 |OT6| Made this thread during Harvey because the ratings would be higher
338 339 340 341 342
17K
2M
UselessNapkin replied
  • Locked
PoliGAF 2017 |OT5| The Man In the High Chair
395 396 397 398 399
20K
2M
RDreamer replied
  • Locked
PoliGAF 2017 |OT4| The leaks are coming from inside the white house
396 397 398 399 400
20K
2M
ShironRedshift replied
  • Locked
PoliGAF 2017 |OT3| 13 Treasons Why
393 394 395 396 397
20K
2M
Zaraki_Kenpachi replied
  • Locked
Poligaf 2017 |OT| It Almost Isn't Fair
9
4K
Bonen no Max'd replied
Top Bottom