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PoliGAF 2014 |OT2| We need to be more like Disney World

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GOP made their bed with the teapers

The Tea Partiers should be FURIOUS with the GOP right now as the GOP just decided to support SOCIALISM FOR THE RICH by allowing the banks to use FDIC insured money for derivatives trading. Once again, the GOP tells their dumb simpleton base one thing and then fucks them over by supporting policies that benefit the elite wealthy donor base.
 

Diablos

Member
Devil's advocate: A nuke is going to explode in New York and a terrorist is in custody who knows how to stop it but won't talk, period.

How would you handle that?
 
Devil's advocate: A nuke is going to explode in New York and a terrorist is in custody who knows how to stop it but won't talk, period.

How would you handle that?

Not torture him, because it doesn't work. Forget the ethical implications! All you'd be doing is wasting your time.
 
T

thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
Devil's advocate: A nuke is going to explode in New York and a terrorist is in custody who knows how to stop it but won't talk, period.

How would you handle that?

7 and a half days of standing sleep deprivation would surely make him give quick and accurate intelligence to stop that ticking time bomb sure to go off at any moment.
 

Wilsongt

Member
Remember Wonder Boy Paul Ryan's budget?

WASHINGTON (AP) — The incoming Republican chairman of the House Budget panel says he's going to follow outgoing chairman Paul Ryan's lead by drafting a fiscal blueprint that would balance the budget in 10 years and call for transforming Medicare into a system that places future retirees in private health insurance plans.

Rep. Tom Price, a Georgia surgeon representing the district Newt Gingrich once did, said the so-called premium support plan for Medicare, which would provide voucher-like subsidies for seniors to buy health insurance instead of the fixed benefits offered by the current system, is "settled policy" among Republicans controlling the House.

Price told reporters Friday that top Republicans haven't decided whether to use a special filibuster-proof budget bill to repeal so-called Obamacare or cut spending elsewhere in the budget.


Price succeeds Ryan, R-Wis., who became a national political figure as the 2012 GOP vice presidential nominee. He also has a more difficult challenge than Ryan, who passed his nonbinding budget plan for four straight years in largely the same form but never followed up with the more challenging task of trying to implement the plan with binding legislation.

The task is more difficult this year because reaching a budget compromise with the new GOP-controlled Senate is thornier than simply reaching consensus among House Republicans.

The arcane congressional budget process involves passing a nonbinding budget resolution, which sets the broad parameters for follow up bills setting agency operating budgets and curbing spending on autopilot benefit programs such as welfare, Medicaid and student loan subsidies. The budget resolution and follow-up measures known as reconciliation bills are the only legislative vehicles that can't be filibustered by the minority party in the Senate. Only one such measure can be used each year to cut spending.

Price acknowledged the temptation to use the filibuster-proof process to deliver a measure largely repealing the Affordable Care Act to President Barack Obama's desk or to use the "finite number of arrows" to go after spending elsewhere in the budget.

Price said he wants the GOP budget to lead to "the greatest amount of opportunity to the greatest number of Americans."

Price also said he wants to overhaul the budget process to allow congressional scorekeepers to take into account the economic feedback that policy changes have on the economy. Under such "dynamic scoring," tax cuts or a reform of the complex tax code would cost less because they spur economic growth and generate greater revenues.

Price did not say whether he favors retaining Doug Elmendorf as director of the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office. Elmendorf was appointed by Democrats and his term expires in January.

http://news.yahoo.com/house-budget-chairman-ryan-framework-184545043--politics.html

47777-Rupaul-gif-I-cant-wait-to-see-czuJ.gif
 
Devil's advocate: A nuke is going to explode in New York and a terrorist is in custody who knows how to stop it but won't talk, period.

How would you handle that?

Bill Clinton already provided the best answer to this. Torture should still be illegal. That 1 in a zillion situation just doesn't really happen often if ever. But even if it did happen then the president should just break the law and throw himself on the mercy of justice system. In all probability, if you torture the person in that situation, you are gonna get a pardon.

So torture should be illegal as official policy but if that 1 in a zillion situation actually happens then someone can break the law if they feel it is the best thing to do.
 

Drakeon

Member
Devil's advocate: A nuke is going to explode in New York and a terrorist is in custody who knows how to stop it but won't talk, period.

How would you handle that?
Call in the FBI, who actually knows what they're doing when it comes to interrogation. Torture gives false information, its not only morally reprehensible, but isn't even accurate.
 

Gotchaye

Member
Devil's advocate: A nuke is going to explode in New York and a terrorist is in custody who knows how to stop it but won't talk, period.

How would you handle that?

I don't think this is a very useful sort of hypothetical.

So, philosophically it's valuable to try to get at what's underlying our moral judgments. Thought experiments can be good for this, where we abstract away a lot of complicating factors that make real-world morality so messy - we can try to see which factors really matter. Is that the point here? Are we supposed to assume that somehow we know for sure that there's a nuke, that it's about to explode, that we've got someone in custody who we know knows how to stop it, that he won't give up the information unless we torture him, that he will definitely give up useful information if we torture him (which we know we can act on to stop the nuke), and that we've somehow been dropped in to make that decision independent of any institutional systems we've got in place that would actually be making that kind of decision?

Then probably. But all you're really getting at there is this consequentialism/deontology divide. That's an important philosophical question, but it's weird to phrase it this way where it's easy to confuse it as a question with direct real-world implications for the permissibility of torture. All those things we had to assume away aren't things that we can assume away in real life.

I think if you want to pose a real-world scenario which suggests that torture is permissible, you've got to flesh it out so that it's plausible and so that your audience doesn't have a bunch of obvious questions about how you know the things you're claiming to know. If the only way you can make the result you want seem plausible is if the terrorists are comic book villains and we have James Bond, that probably says something about whether or not torture is ever in practice a good idea and especially whether or not we should institutionalize it.
 

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
There's one bit of really good news to come out of this otherwise shitty week. The senate was supposed to pass the new spending bill, but Ted Cruz wanted to whine about it and the Democrats some more by invoking some point of order rule or some shit. By doing that, it opened up the door for Harry Reid to use some weird, quirky parliamentary trick which will allow him to fast track a bunch of Obama nominees, including 9 judicial nominees.

In other words, Cruz's fuckery allowed us to get 9 more federal judges that we probably wouldn't have otherwise. And now I'm legit wondering if he's not really some Democrat plant after all.

edit: Politico explains it better:

http://www.politico.com/story/2014/12/conservatives-move-backfires-113556.html?hp=t2_r
 
There's one bit of really good news to come out of this otherwise shitty week. The senate was supposed to pass the new spending bill, but Ted Cruz wanted to whine about it and the Democrats some more by invoking some point of order rule or some shit. By doing that, it opened up the door for Harry Reid to use some weird, quirky parliamentary trick which will allow him to fast track a bunch of Obama nominees, including 9 judicial nominees.

In other words, Cruz's fuckery allowed us to get 9 more federal judges that we probably wouldn't have otherwise. And now I'm legit wondering if he's not really some Democrat plant after all.

edit: Politico explains it better:

http://www.politico.com/story/2014/12/conservatives-move-backfires-113556.html?hp=t2_r
I posted this last page. We also get the SG the NRA hates.
 

Joe Molotov

Member
Devil's advocate: A nuke is going to explode in Tetsuya Nomura's rectum and Hideo Kojima is in custody who knows how to stop it but won't talk, period.

How would you handle that?
 
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thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
Senate just approved the spending bill. Passed the closure vote 77-19. Passed the real vote 56-40.

Dems voting against closure:
Brown
Franken
Manchin
McCaskill
Sanders
Warren

13 Reps voted against closure, including Cruz, Paul, and Rubio.
 
T

thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
Closure is closing debate, right?

Yep, it's where the 60 votes are required to overcome the filibuster.

Cory Booker, for instance, voted against the bill itself, but did not join the filibuster attempt, which is slightly disappointing.
 
Yep, it's where the 60 votes are required to overcome the filibuster.

Cory Booker, for instance, voted against the bill itself, but did not join the filibuster attempt, which is slightly disappointing.

Mmm. Mixed feelings on that. On one hand, it's late on a Friday, I can see why they want to go home. And the filibuster is used far, far too often as a tool to crush dissent rather than the means of facilitating debate it was originally conceived as.

On the other hand, I'm a little bummed the bill passed. Nobody wants a shutdown, but this is just a straight up awful excuse for a spending bill.
 
"@JeffreyToobin: RT @fedcourts: Total circuit & district court appointments at end of 6 years:
BHO: 291 +12?
GWB: 254
WJC: 298
RR: 290"

Thx Cruz for the liberal courts!
 

NeoXChaos

Member
It's like Peter King said, the lesson learned from the last shutdown is that there is no consequences for them. If anything, their entire strategy of deadlocking congress worked to depress voter attitudes and deliver them yet another sweeping midterm victory. Also, this time around the "blame" for the shutdown would be less clear. This is a pretty terrible budget, but its what you get when you elect terrible government.

Bingo. 2018 mid-term 3 peat???
 

ivysaur12

Banned
There's one bit of really good news to come out of this otherwise shitty week. The senate was supposed to pass the new spending bill, but Ted Cruz wanted to whine about it and the Democrats some more by invoking some point of order rule or some shit. By doing that, it opened up the door for Harry Reid to use some weird, quirky parliamentary trick which will allow him to fast track a bunch of Obama nominees, including 9 judicial nominees.

In other words, Cruz's fuckery allowed us to get 9 more federal judges that we probably wouldn't have otherwise. And now I'm legit wondering if he's not really some Democrat plant after all.

edit: Politico explains it better:

http://www.politico.com/story/2014/12/conservatives-move-backfires-113556.html?hp=t2_r

Informed that confirmation of nominations was now rolling on Saturday much earlier than expected by Republicans, Sen. Orrin Hatch (R-Utah) replied: “I wish you hadn’t pointed that out.”

oh my god this is too good.
 

HylianTom

Banned
"@JeffreyToobin: RT @fedcourts: Total circuit & district court appointments at end of 6 years:
BHO: 291 +12?
GWB: 254
WJC: 298
RR: 290"

Thx Cruz for the liberal courts!
I can't believe this. I'm cheering for Senator Cruz. Amazing.

Another term or two for the Dems naming judges, and the social conservative movement is dead. This might be one of the more under-reported aspects of this upcoming election, but one of the most significant political consequences we've seen in a few generations. It'll be fun to see how Christian conservatives react once they realize that everything they try to pass, no matter how much they at dominate certain levels of govt or certain states, will end-up challenged and knocked-down in the courts.

...

Here's the FreeRepublic reaction thread to the passage, BTW. I'm loving this evening.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3236976/posts

They aren't going to be able to thread the needle over the next two years. *giddy*
 

Wilsongt

Member
A threat to Democrats?

http://news.yahoo.com/katie-couric-...ut-millennials-and-republicans-034111865.html

Thanks to a bloodbath in the midterm elections, Republicans now control both the House and Senate, and they are setting their sights on the White House for 2016. They are undoubtedly energized by young and diverse representatives such as Mia Love, the first African American Republican woman in the House, and Elise Stefanik, the youngest woman to be elected to Congress.

In West Virginia, Saira Blair won a seat in House of Delegates, becoming the nation’s youngest elected state legislator.


Blair and her father, state Sen. Craig Blair, sat down with Yahoo Global News anchor Katie Couric to discuss her inspiration to run, her historic win, and hope for her generation in the political process. “My generation is going to have $17 trillion of debt on our hands. And we deserve at least one vote in the House of Delegates. Because we shouldn't have to wait until we're 30, 40, 50 or 60 to understand the importance of conservative principles,” Blair said.

Raffi Williams, deputy director of the Republican National Committee, is tasked with spreading the Republican message to the younger generation. Borrowing the strategy of President Barack Obama’s groundbreaking Internet campaign, he says, “We have a new digital and data program that is … using social media and leveraging it to target voters in new ways.”

And then there are online news sites, such as the Independent Journal Review with over 24 million views monthly, that reach millennials and bring them up to speed in politics and culture on an entertaining way.

But despite the strides the GOP is making toward a more diverse leadership, the age gap in voting preferences that emerged in 2004 has remained evident in the past four election cycles. Voters who are 18 to 29 vote Democrat, and those older than 65 lean Republican.

According to the Pew Research Center, “Millennials stand out for voting heavily Democratic and for liberal views on many political and social issues, ranging from a belief in an activist government to support for same-sex marriage and marijuana legalization.”

So millennial Republicans like Blair have a lot of work to do before the Grand Old Party begins to look young.

She won in West Virginia. West. Virginia. I dare another young conservative to run in a state that isn't the deep south or a tea party bastion and see how far they get.
 
I can't believe this. I'm cheering for Senator Cruz. Amazing.

Another term or two for the Dems naming judges, and the social conservative movement is dead. This might be one of the more under-reported aspects of this upcoming election, but one of the most significant political consequences we've seen in a few generations. It'll be fun to see how Christian conservatives react once they realize that everything they try to pass, no matter how much they at dominate certain levels of govt or certain states, will end-up challenged and knocked-down in the courts.

...

Here's the FreeRepublic reaction thread to the passage, BTW. I'm loving this evening.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3236976/posts

They aren't going to be able to thread the needle over the next two years. *giddy*

2 things: 1, their quote threading system is atrocious. Just... abominable.

2, that really is damn hilarious. The GOP is going to tear itself apart over the next two years.
 

HylianTom

Banned
2 things: 1, their quote threading system is atrocious. Just... abominable.

2, that really is damn hilarious. The GOP is going to tear itself apart over the next two years.

Their website is like stepping back in time. Very appropriate.

And more than just gloating about the death of the social conservative movement, I wonder what this would do to politics on a wider scale. A lot of folks who sympathize with progressive causes look at government as hopelessly corporate and conservative, but I don't think we see the same degree of resignation coming from the right (as evidenced by consistent turnout on their side, regardless of election year).

So what happens if Christian conservatives begin to see government as hopelessly "evil?" If "black robed thugs" kill their every good deed, do they withdraw, similar to what we've seen on the left? Get violent? Shift focus to prepping for end times? We haven't seen the death of such a movement in modern times.

If they withdraw, this has a few potential consequences. It could kill the GOP - or set the party free to the point where we see the first major realignment in decades. 2012 was big, but 2016 could be the most impactful election since 1980.
 
Their website is like stepping back in time. Very appropriate.

And more than just gloating about the death of the social conservative movement, I wonder what this would do to politics on a wider scale. A lot of folks who sympathize with progressive causes look at government as hopelessly corporate and conservative, but I don't think we see the same degree of resignation coming from the right (as evidenced by consistent turnout on their side, regardless of election year).

So what happens if Christian conservatives begin to see government as hopelessly "evil?" If "black robed thugs" kill their every good deed, do they withdraw, similar to what we've seen on the left? Get violent? Shift focus to prepping for end times? We haven't seen the death of such a movement in modern times.

If they withdraw, this has a few potential consequences. It could kill the GOP - or set the party free to the point where we see the first major realignment in decades. 2012 was big, but 2016 could be the most impactful election since 1980.

I think you might be optimistic; those people coming out to vote aren't doing it in spite of viewing the government as a lost cause, they're doing it because they see it that way. Look at Cruz and the rest of the Tea Party darlings; their job is to obstruct the government, not improve it. They'll keep getting out to vote until it's all torn down.
 

HylianTom

Banned
I think you might be optimistic; those people coming out to vote aren't doing it in spite of viewing the government as a lost cause, they're doing it because they see it that way. Look at Cruz and the rest of the Tea Party darlings; their job is to obstruct the government, not improve it. They'll keep getting out to vote until it's all torn down.
You're definitely right. I might be projecting hope onto this dreary landscape. :/
 

East Lake

Member
Their website is like stepping back in time. Very appropriate.

And more than just gloating about the death of the social conservative movement, I wonder what this would do to politics on a wider scale. A lot of folks who sympathize with progressive causes look at government as hopelessly corporate and conservative, but I don't think we see the same degree of resignation coming from the right (as evidenced by consistent turnout on their side, regardless of election year).

So what happens if Christian conservatives begin to see government as hopelessly "evil?" If "black robed thugs" kill their every good deed, do they withdraw, similar to what we've seen on the left? Get violent? Shift focus to prepping for end times? We haven't seen the death of such a movement in modern times.

If they withdraw, this has a few potential consequences. It could kill the GOP - or set the party free to the point where we see the first major realignment in decades. 2012 was big, but 2016 could be the most impactful election since 1980.
http://streamer1.afa.net/afr-aod/SandyRios/sr_20141212.mp3
 

Chichikov

Member
Devil's advocate: A nuke is going to explode in New York and a terrorist is in custody who knows how to stop it but won't talk, period.

How would you handle that?
Good old ticking time bomb scenario.
Justifying torture in oppressive regimes since 1966.

I guess when you can't justify torture with real things that happened in real life you need to come up with hypotheticals scenarios that can never truly happen.

And even if you think such scenario could take place in real life, none of that shit is relevant in any shape of form to the torture the CIA did, on any level.
 
Good old ticking time bomb scenario.
Justifying torture in oppressive regimes since 1966.

I guess when you can't justify torture with real things that happened in real life you need to come up with hypotheticals scenarios that can never truly happen.

And even if you think such scenario could take place in real life, none of that shit is relevant in any shape of form to the torture the CIA did, on any level.

Michael Chertoff, the Homeland Security Chief under Bush, declared that 24 "reflects real life", John Yoo, the former Justice Department lawyer who produced the torture memos cited Bauer in support while Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia went further, "Jack Bauer saved Los Angeles... He saved hundreds of thousands of lives. Are you going to convict Jack Bauer?".[8] One of the shows' creators stated:

:/
 

Chichikov

Member
Michael Chertoff, the Homeland Security Chief under Bush, declared that 24 "reflects real life", John Yoo, the former Justice Department lawyer who produced the torture memos cited Bauer in support while Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia went further, "Jack Bauer saved Los Angeles... He saved hundreds of thousands of lives. Are you going to convict Jack Bauer?".[8] One of the shows' creators stated:
:/

FhznRxo.gif


By the way, in Israel (who torture like mad) there was an comission who looked into that crap after a few people died and a high profile case of wrongful conviction (based on an admission extract through torture) and they concluded that in cases of literal ticking bomb, moderate physical pressure can be allowed.
Then of course everyone in the shin bet* turned into a poet and imagined a figurative, metaphorical ticking bomb that can applied to pretty much anything and anyone (as long as they're not jewish through). As for the "moderate" in physical pressure, well, you can guess how well that worked.

* really, we should stop calling it shin bet, it wasn't called that since the 50s.
 

HylianTom

Banned
"Take our party back?" Ha!

Back in the 90s, I went to college about an hour away from AFA HQ, so I was able to listen to a lot of AFA radio programming, just for shits & giggles. Still sounds about the same. They know they're being used, and yet they still don't leave. Amazing.

Edit: I love hearing this "we need a third party" talk. I hope it spreads. Just a few percent walking away would change the landscape dramatically.
 

East Lake

Member
My favorite part is 17 minutes in where they talk in an ad about how radio would be important if a 10 kiloton nuke went off in a city.
 
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