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PoliGAF 2015 |OT| Keep Calm and Diablos On

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thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
Even mathematically there's a 1 in 20 chance that a poll will go outside the margin of error, and realistically it's higher than that. Given the number of polls we have for these things, polls like that are always going to happen.

And it seems the media's always going to hype those obvious outliers either way, but whatever, they can have their fun before it's all forgotten in a couple of days.
 

Bowdz

Member
Oh Marco. For someone running his campaign as being a 21st century politician, this stuff seems to go right over his head.

http://www.politico.com/story/2015/...tewart-interview-no-class-120459.html?hp=l2_4

Politico said:
President Barack Obama showed a “lack of class” during his interview with Jon Stewart in discussing the Iran deal, Florida Sen. Marco Rubio said Wednesday.

Sitting down for an interview with “Fox & Friends,” the Republican presidential contender responded both to a clip of Obama teasing critics of the Iran deal that “everything would be fine” if former Vice President Dick Cheney had been on the negotiating team and Donald Trump’s latest remarks.

And the way Trump has behaved recently is neither “dignified” nor “worthy” of the presidency either, Rubio added.

“We already have a president now that has no class. I mean, we have a president now that does selfie stick videos, that invites YouTube stars there, people that eat cereal out of a bathtub,” the Florida senator remarked, recalling the president’s past social media forays.

The next presidency, Rubio said, needs to restore “dignity and class to the White House.”

”I don’t believe that some of the language that Mr. Trump is employing is worthy of the office. I just do not,” Rubio said.
 

ivysaur12

Banned
Eh, those polls aren't laughable. Let's say that the next QPac poll showed Hillary up again -- that doesn't mean that they did something wrong. By the way polling works, you'll see outliers, you'll see polls that go against the aggregate.

To liberals: If there is a trend, don't ignore it for that one poll that is on your side, ala 2014. Ignoring trends and polling realities or betting solely on ground game is how reactions to 2014 happened.

To conservatives: Don't forget 2012 and ignoring polling in the aggregate. Latching on to one poll or one polling company, like you are on twitter right now, is repeating the exact same mistakes that you made in 2012.
 
The Atlantic has archives that go back to the 1850s with select articles: http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/backissues/

I've been reading some of the 19th century ones. The magazine is so pro-Republican its hilarious. One article wouldn't mention the Democratic Party without affixing "traitorous" to their party name.

The late 1800s-early 1900s have a nice run of EUGENICS IS AWESOME articles.

Obligatory:
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1932/03/hitler-and-hitlerism-a-man-of-destiny/308960/
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine...and-hitlerism-germany-under-the-nazis/308961/


Also, a fun one: http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1912/10/election-superstitions-and-fallacies/306617/


http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1908/01/justice-to-the-corporations/376199/


http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1884/04/presidential-nominations/303481/


http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1881/03/the-story-of-a-great-monopoly/306019/


http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1881/01/james-garfield-a-look-ahead/307250/


Arguably the most affecting thing about the articles is the language. It's so different to even the more formal Atlantic/New Yorker articles of today. It's the sentence construction really.

There's also lots of non-politics literary stuff in there from Emerson, Thoreau, Whitman, Kerouac, etc. Or diaries of random people. Slaves, freedman, a non-land owning confederate soldier and his reasons for fighting.

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1866/12/reconstruction/304561/

Woah woah woah woah woah. Hold up. Stop the presses.


Grover Cleveland's real first name was Stephen?
Who the FUCK names their kid Stephen Cleveland. That sounds like a name for a cartoon character. Grover was an improvement, and that's literally the name of a muppet.
 

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
Michigan democrats are trying to propose a bill that fixes the gerrymandering issue. That's cute. It has zero shot at succeeding in Michigan's congress.

Oh Marco. For someone running his campaign as being a 21st century politician, this stuff seems to go right over his head.

http://www.politico.com/story/2015/...tewart-interview-no-class-120459.html?hp=l2_4

I read this as, "The President should only be reaching out to the old, rich white people that control the vast majority of wealth in this country."

But maybe that's just me.
 

NeoXChaos

Member
Eh, those polls aren't laughable. Let's say that the next QPac poll showed Hillary up again -- that doesn't mean that they did something wrong. By the way polling works, you'll see outliers, you'll see polls that go against the aggregate.

To liberals: If there is a trend, don't ignore it for that one poll that is on your side, ala 2014. Ignoring trends and polling realities or betting solely on ground game is how reactions to 2014 happened.

To conservatives: Don't forget 2012 and ignoring polling in the aggregate. Latching on to one poll or one polling company, like you are on twitter right now, is repeating the exact same mistakes that you made in 2012.

it has already begun. Joe this morning and chuck todd are back to over hyping the bernie sanders phenom. This was expected. The media will call the race a dead heat. Both sides will have negative approval ratings next year probably. Hillary won't have the best approval ratings nor will their nominee.
 

benjipwns

Banned
Back in 1968 the media is worrying that they're covering too much of the major party conventions: http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1968/07/carnival-of-excess/303478/

After the 1964 conventions Walter Cronkite of CBS made a speech in which he came right out and said, "I heartily believe that in 1968 the political parties ought to ban television from the floor of the convention hall." He was for televising the convention, of course, but he thought television's aggressive and gadgety presence on the floor itself "makes a mockery of the fact that this is a convention of delegates who are supposed to be listening to the speeches and tending to some sort of business."

...

It should be said that many of the most respected men in television news have rejected the contention that their medium should concentrate on decorous coverage of the podium and program of the conventions. Brinkley, for example, has said, "Television's job at a convention is journalism, to cover the news, whether it is on the rostrum, on the convention floor, in a back corridor, or in a downtown hotel. Our job is not to serve as . . . a coast-to-coast loudspeaker system for politicians to use as they see fit. I 'disagree completely [with the Cronkite proposition], and I think it is one of the worst ideas I ever heard of."

So for this year, CBS will be ready to match NBC dollar for dollar, gadget for gadget, and man for man (with a bit of tactical double-teaming where that seems judicious). When NBC asked the Republican arrangements committee to approve a center camera stand 25 feet in front of the rostrum and "a foot or two above the level of the speaker's nose," CBS seconded the motion. When CBS told the committee that its legions at the convention would require 750 single hotel rooms, 20 suites, 30,000 square feet of working space just off the convention floor, and 700 passes to the convention hail, the NBC request was substantially the same. NBC did make a mysterious request for dock space for two yachts in front of the Fontainebleau Hotel at Miami Beach, and that caught CBS unaware, but otherwise the contest looks equal logistically.

NBC has four "ultra-portable mini-cameras" for use in close support of its floor men. To match the competition camera for camera, CBS has its own new color portables for the infighting. The negotiations about these roving cameras on the floor may provide a measure of the Republicans' success in trying to reform journalistic enterprise at their convention. The networks each wanted to use four roving cameras; the most ardent Republican reformers preferred none. At last report, the compromise was three.

CBS will "anchor" its convention coverage with Walter Cronkite. He will be on camera alone in his glass booth next door to Huntley-Brinkley. But the CBS strategists have come up with a new ploy to support Cronkite: Eric Sevareid and Roger Mudd will work in a studio adjacent to the convention floor, and CBS viewers will be seeing a lot of them. The network also will have Harry Reasoner reporting from a seat on the rostrum; the floor men, headed by Mike Wallace; a spirited crew of young correspondents scattered around the convention city; and Art Buchwald, the humorist, and Theodore H. White, the historian, on call for spot duty. In the main confrontation, however, it is apparent that CBS means to counter Huntley-Brinkley with a threesome, Cronkite-Sevareid-Mudd. The team does not sound catchy, heaven knows, but it is interesting. Bill Leonard gave the executive view of the new team's responsibilities: "Walter will tell us what's happening. Eric will concentrate on the meaning of what's happening. Roger will discuss the political background, the personalities. Roger is irreverent and unawed, you know—a tough reporter without being awed—you know what I mean? He laughs well."

If only they had lived to see modern 24/7 cable news.
 
What's with Quinnpacc?
Clinton has collapsed. She's running a horrible campaign, not talking to voters, and is just as stiff as Romney. I really don't think she's as good of a general election candidate as advertised; how do you win if you can't give a decent stump speech, handle the media, etc? Talent wise she's far closer to Kerry, McCain and Romney than W Bush or Obama.

And once again she is paying consultants and staff ridiculous amounts of money with nothing to show for it.

No wonder Biden is thinking about running.
 

ivysaur12

Banned
Clinton has collapsed. She's running a horrible campaign, not talking to voters, and is just as stiff as Romney. I really don't think she's as good of a general election candidate as advertised; how do you win if you can't give a decent stump speech, handle the media, etc? Talent wise she's far closer to Kerry, McCain and Romney than W Bush or Obama.

And once again she is paying consultants and staff ridiculous amounts of money with nothing to show for it.

No wonder Biden is thinking about running.

lol
 
startdiablosing_zpsifqbvpjr.gif


I really should have said "PoliGAF" instead of Diablos to make it more multipurpose, oh well

Clinton has collapsed. She's running a horrible campaign, not talking to voters, and is just as stiff as Romney. I really don't think she's as good of a general election candidate as advertised; how do you win if you can't give a decent stump speech, handle the media, etc? Talent wise she's far closer to Kerry, McCain and Romney than W Bush or Obama.

And once again she is paying consultants and staff ridiculous amounts of money with nothing to show for it.

No wonder Biden is thinking about running.
Oh good you've re-engaged your 2012 troll mode. Because this analysis requires you to ignore every other poll out there. ABC has Clinton up 10 on Jeb Bush nationally. PPP has Hillary beating all of the Republicans by 4-12 points in Virginia, which flies in the face of what Quinnipiac found. Quinnipiac isn't terrible but they've definitely shown some funky numbers in the past and this is no different. Expect them to release a set of polls next month showing Hillary leading her opponents by double digits to no reasonable explanation other than noise.
 

NeoXChaos

Member
startdiablosing_zpsifqbvpjr.gif


I really should have said "PoliGAF" instead of Diablos to make it more multipurpose, oh well


Oh good you've re-engaged your 2012 troll mode. Because this analysis requires you to ignore every other poll out there. ABC has Clinton up 10 on Jeb Bush nationally. PPP has Hillary beating all of the Republicans by 4-12 points in Virginia, which flies in the face of what Quinnipiac found. Quinnipiac isn't terrible but they've definitely shown some funky numbers in the past and this is no different. Expect them to release a set of polls next month showing Hillary leading her opponents by double digits to no reasonable explanation other than noise.

that Gif is so good. Edit it to include those quinnipac poll numbers replacing scott walker.
 
Clinton has collapsed. She's running a horrible campaign, not talking to voters, and is just as stiff as Romney. I really don't think she's as good of a general election candidate as advertised; how do you win if you can't give a decent stump speech, handle the media, etc? Talent wise she's far closer to Kerry, McCain and Romney than W Bush or Obama.

And once again she is paying consultants and staff ridiculous amounts of money with nothing to show for it.

No wonder Biden is thinking about running.

omg the next 15 months are going to be amazing
 
She can lose all three and Ohio and still win handily just by keeping PA and FL from flipping.

If she starts polling consistently behind in Florida, then I'll start Diablosing. Though she can lose Florida as well as VA, IA and CO, and still win with Ohio and PA.

SO many paths to 270. It's pretty crazy.
 

Fuchsdh

Member
The Atlantic has archives that go back to the 1850s with select articles: http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/backissues/

I've been reading some of the 19th century ones. The magazine is so pro-Republican its hilarious. One article wouldn't mention the Democratic Party without affixing "traitorous" to their party name.

The late 1800s-early 1900s have a nice run of EUGENICS IS AWESOME articles.

Obligatory:
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1932/03/hitler-and-hitlerism-a-man-of-destiny/308960/
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine...and-hitlerism-germany-under-the-nazis/308961/


Also, a fun one: http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1912/10/election-superstitions-and-fallacies/306617/


http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1908/01/justice-to-the-corporations/376199/


http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1884/04/presidential-nominations/303481/


http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1881/03/the-story-of-a-great-monopoly/306019/


http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1881/01/james-garfield-a-look-ahead/307250/


Arguably the most affecting thing about the articles is the language. It's so different to even the more formal Atlantic/New Yorker articles of today. It's the sentence construction really.

There's also lots of non-politics literary stuff in there from Emerson, Thoreau, Whitman, Kerouac, etc. Or diaries of random people. Slaves, freedman, a non-land owning confederate soldier and his reasons for fighting.

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1866/12/reconstruction/304561/

Wow, thanks for the update.

Kind of funny that the only stuff they have in the runup to the Civil War is a think piece by Holmes, fiction by Louisa May Alcott, and prose by Walt Whitman. Kind of nice, actually—reminds you there was culture creation going on even when we usually just focus on the coming conflict.

Ooh! A book review of On The Origin of Species!

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1860/07/darwin-on-the-origin-of-species/304152/
 
Clinton has collapsed. She's running a horrible campaign, not talking to voters, and is just as stiff as Romney. I really don't think she's as good of a general election candidate as advertised; how do you win if you can't give a decent stump speech, handle the media, etc? Talent wise she's far closer to Kerry, McCain and Romney than W Bush or Obama.

And once again she is paying consultants and staff ridiculous amounts of money with nothing to show for it.

No wonder Biden is thinking about running.
PD turning heel on Hillary from being Hillaryis44 supporter is the best thing about the election.
 

NeoXChaos

Member
She can lose all three and Ohio and still win handily just by keeping PA and FL from flipping.

If she starts polling consistently behind in Florida, then I'll start Diablosing. Though she can lose Florida as well as VA, IA and CO, and still win with Ohio and PA.

SO many paths to 270. It's pretty crazy.

KDK2015050701-table2.png


FL and OH based off the lean of the electorate is expected depending on the final result relative to the national average. VA is to worry about. If she is losing VA its over. .


@Nate Cohn: Leaving aside whether Q polls are "right" about party ID, GOP party-ID strength is a big part of Clinton weakness. R+3 in poll, final 2012 result D+5
 
So you're saying if she loses VA, she can expect to lose every state that went for Obama by a lower margin than VA in 2012? There are no idiosyncratic state electoral performances?
 

Wall

Member
It literally shows sanders in the same position at clinton.

http://www.quinnipiac.edu/news-and-...ing-state-polls/release-detail?ReleaseID=2261

I don't by clinton so low

Clinton 36
Bush 41

Sanders 37
Bush 43

From their sampling information:

Colorado

PARTY IDENTIFICATION
Republican 29%
Democrat 26
Independent 36
Other/DK/NA 10

RACE
White 79%
Black 4
Hispanic 11
Other/DK/NA 6

Iowa

PARTY IDENTIFICATION
Republican 29%
Democrat 27
Independent 38
Other/DK/NA 6

RACE
White 91%
Black 2
Hispanic 2

Virginia

PARTY IDENTIFICATION
Republican 27%
Democrat 28
Independent 35
Other/DK/NA 9
Other/DK/NA 4

RACE
White 68%
Black 19
Hispanic 4
Other/DK/NA 9

I don't know the exact demographics or partisan breakdown for all of those states, but the first two look off to me.

Still worrying though.
 

Ecotic

Member
The Quinnipiac polls are startling, but you have to believe they're an outlier for now. No way she's up nationally that much in the other polls and down like that in the swing states.

What does bother me more is Hillary's consistently low favorables and 'honest and trustworthy' numbers. It just doesn't bode well for hopes of a successful two term Presidency. Obama's favorables consistently outperformed his approval for years and now are a healthy even for a 7th year President.
 

HylianTom

Banned
I know that the party ID numbers for Virginia in 2012 were much more favorable. Exit polling in VA had the Dems with an edge of 6-7% over the GOP. Not sure how it's changed over the past three years; it might've gotten worse or better for all we know..
 
CO was +5D in 2012. Quinnipiac is polling it as +3R.

So either it's a junk outlier poll or the party registration has suddenly drastically changed and any Democrat is fucked there in 2016. I'm going to guess it's the former.

What does bother me more is Hillary's consistently low favorables and 'honest and trustworthy' numbers. It just doesn't bode well for hopes of a successful two term Presidency. Obama's favorables consistently outperformed his approval for years and now are a healthy even for a 7th year President.
I remember in 2007/8 one of the reasons many Democratic establishment figures encouraged Obama to run and later endorsed him was because Hillary's favorable/unfavorables were so divisive that she looked a weak GE candidate. Back then Obama and Giuliani and McCain and even Edwards had +20 favorability ratings and Clinton was running even at best. Hillary's back to those numbers, but the difference is all politicians have poor favorables now so hers are par of course. In fact hers are better than most Republicans.

Also Bill Clinton and Nixon won two elections each with dreadful trustworthy numbers so while it's not great it's not fatal. People know what they're getting with the Clintons at the end of the day. They'll probably take the drama and shadiness if they think she'll be effective.
 

ivysaur12

Banned
Cross post!

Well, party ID is volatile. I wouldn't really take that into consideration when judging the merits of a poll.

I would more look at like this: If Hillary Clinton continues to domination Republicans in national and state polls, it's an outlier. If she doesn't, then this is the start of a larger trend. The money's on it being an outlier, given similar polls released by ABC/WaPo and PPP this week, but it could always be a trend. But it's probably not.

Also the election is in 15 months.

I would say, though, given what's happening with the state GOP in Colorado I would be... surprised if the Republican ID was suddenly that high in the state. But maybe it is.
 
CO was +5D in 2012. Quinnipiac is polling it as +3R.

So either it's a junk outlier poll or the party registration has suddenly drastically changed and any Democrat is fucked there in 2016. I'm going to guess it's the former.


I remember in 2007/8 one of the reasons many Democratic establishment figures encouraged Obama to run and later endorsed him was because Hillary's favorable/unfavorables were so divisive that she looked a weak GE candidate. Back then Obama and Giuliani and McCain and even Edwards had +20 favorability ratings and Clinton was running even at best. Hillary's back to those numbers, but the difference is all politicians have poor favorables now so hers are par of course. In fact hers are better than most Republicans.

Also Bill Clinton and Nixon won two elections each with dreadful trustworthy numbers so while it's not great it's not fatal. People know what they're getting with the Clintons at the end of the day. They'll probably take the drama and shadiness if they think she'll be effective.

My local political crowd was convinced that anyone could win after the Bush presidency-- except Hilary.
 

Wall

Member
Based on the Huffington Post poll aggregator (which was just updated yesterday), nationally the numbers for party ID are:

Dems: ~35
Independents: ~32
Republicans: ~ 25

Going back to 2009, it looks like the Democrat's lead over the Republicans has been fairly stable; although, the proportion of Independents appears to be decreasing after increasing suddenly in late 2009. Both registered Democrats and registered Republicans appear to be increasing at the expense of Independents.

I don't see anything that has state level data, but I have difficulty believing that the party ID numbers would deviate from the national numbers so much in three states where Obama won in 2012.
 
Cross post!



I would say, though, given what's happening with the state GOP in Colorado I would be... surprised if the Republican ID was suddenly that high in the state. But maybe it is.
Another caveat is that Quinnipiac has a particularly bad record at polling CO. They had Romney winning by 2 in their final poll and Obama was by 5. In 2014 Hickenlooper was down 10 points in one of their late polls!

Their biggest issue seems to be they always undersample Latinos. A lot will depend on turnout.
My local political crowd was convinced that anyone could win after the Bush presidency-- except Hilary.
Yeah, it was common view among activists. Hurt her a lot in the Iowa caucuses. One more reason why the "Nobody thought Obama could win!" 2008 revisionism is ridiculous.

I'd say her biggest problem isn't the trustworthy numbers but the "cares about people like you" numbers. They're awful for a Democrat. Obama destroyed Romney by that measure and Bill obviously wrecked despite all his untrustworthiness. Hillary herself did good in 2008! She sold herself pretty well as a populist in the spring primaries and cleaned up with blue collar voters. This is where being out of domestic politics for eight years has really hurt her. She's allowed the caricature of jet setting plutocrat to ferment, particularly in the vacuum since leaving Secretary of State. Young people don't know about Healthcare FLOTUS Hillary and she's not been in the senate adding her name to populist bills and helping and talking to constituents (I've found some people shocked that she regularly supported minimum wage increases as a senator, like...). She needs to get those numbers up in this campaign.

Then again she'll probably face Bush and those negatives will get negated.
 
T

thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
Based on the Huffington Post poll aggregator (which was just updated yesterday), nationally the numbers for party ID are:

Dems: ~35
Independents: ~32
Republicans: ~ 25

Going back to 2009, it looks like the Democrat's lead over the Republicans has been fairly stable; although, the proportion of Independents appears to be decreasing after increasing suddenly in late 2009. Both registered Democrats and registered Republicans appear to be increasing at the expense of Independents.

I don't see anything that has state level data, but I have difficulty believing that the party ID numbers would deviate from the national numbers so much in three states where Obama won in 2012.

I know Colorado has always had more registered republicans than democrats. It's one of the weird things about that state being a swing state that leans democrat.
 

sc0la

Unconfirmed Member
Clinton has collapsed. She's running a horrible campaign, not talking to voters, and is just as stiff as Romney. I really don't think she's as good of a general election candidate as advertised; how do you win if you can't give a decent stump speech, handle the media, etc? Talent wise she's far closer to Kerry, McCain and Romney than W Bush or Obama.

And once again she is paying consultants and staff ridiculous amounts of money with nothing to show for it.

No wonder Biden is thinking about running.

You Stan for hilldawg for 8 years(?!) then it's like that huh?
 

ivysaur12

Banned
Weird. I wonder about the other states.

Democratic party ID tends to run ahead of Republican party ID, but a majority of Independents tend to break for Republicans.

Same with how conservative ID runs ahead of liberal ID, but moderates tend to break slightly for Democrats.
 
Based on the Huffington Post poll aggregator (which was just updated yesterday), nationally the numbers for party ID are:

Dems: ~35
Independents: ~32
Republicans: ~ 25

Going back to 2009, it looks like the Democrat's lead over the Republicans has been fairly stable; although, the proportion of Independents appears to be decreasing after increasing suddenly in late 2009. Both registered Democrats and registered Republicans appear to be increasing at the expense of Independents.

I don't see anything that has state level data, but I have difficulty believing that the party ID numbers would deviate from the national numbers so much in three states where Obama won in 2012.

Where did Quinnipac pull the +3 Republican party ID out from?
 

Y2Kev

TLG Fan Caretaker Est. 2009
Anyone following the tunnel issues in NJ this week? The train tunnels into penn station in NY are falling apart. Issues have been exacerbated this week some engineers think because of heat.

Christie is such a disaster.
 
This is just part of the game. Pollsters release outlier polls to gain recognition and attention because this far out from the actual election it doesn't hurt their credibility. Zogby does it, Rasmussen does it, ARG does it.

It defies all logic for Clinton to be leading nationally by 3+ points and yet lose Colorado and Iowa by 8 and 9 points. Unless there's been some paradigm shift in the electorate.
 
Eh, those polls aren't laughable. Let's say that the next QPac poll showed Hillary up again -- that doesn't mean that they did something wrong. By the way polling works, you'll see outliers, you'll see polls that go against the aggregate.

To liberals: If there is a trend, don't ignore it for that one poll that is on your side, ala 2014. Ignoring trends and polling realities or betting solely on ground game is how reactions to 2014 happened.

To conservatives: Don't forget 2012 and ignoring polling in the aggregate. Latching on to one poll or one polling company, like you are on twitter right now, is repeating the exact same mistakes that you made in 2012.

Even mathematically there's a 1 in 20 chance that a poll will go outside the margin of error, and realistically it's higher than that. Given the number of polls we have for these things, polls like that are always going to happen.

And it seems the media's always going to hype those obvious outliers either way, but whatever, they can have their fun before it's all forgotten in a couple of days.

Yes, 1 in 20 polls should be an outlier if they're doing everything right. But an outlier means more than 2 standard deviations away (or outside the 95% confidence interval).

That doesn't mean an outlier should be 5 times away from the standard deviation, however. An outlier like that means you're doing something wrong.

For instance, let's say in Virginia, the true current polling should be Hillary 47, GOP candidate 42.

That means a true outlier could be something like Hillary 53, GOP 35.
Another one could be Hillary 43, GOP 45.

What it does not mean is that it should turn up Hillary 36, GOP 47. That is bonkers. That only comes from a mistake. And we're about to see why.

From their sampling information:

Colorado

PARTY IDENTIFICATION
Republican 29%
Democrat 26
Independent 36
Other/DK/NA 10

RACE
White 79%
Black 4
Hispanic 11
Other/DK/NA 6

Iowa

PARTY IDENTIFICATION
Republican 29%
Democrat 27
Independent 38
Other/DK/NA 6

RACE
White 91%
Black 2
Hispanic 2

Virginia

PARTY IDENTIFICATION
Republican 27%
Democrat 28
Independent 35
Other/DK/NA 9
Other/DK/NA 4

RACE
White 68%
Black 19
Hispanic 4
Other/DK/NA 9

I don't know the exact demographics or partisan breakdown for all of those states, but the first two look off to me.

Still worrying though.

CO was +5D in 2012. Quinnipiac is polling it as +3R.

So either it's a junk outlier poll or the party registration has suddenly drastically changed and any Democrat is fucked there in 2016. I'm going to guess it's the former.

It's fucking junk.

Here's the thing. In Co, it was +5D among ACTUAL voters. But this is not a poll of actual voters (of course) or even likely voters. Remember, the polling from the last election was close because the likely voter models were depressing Democrat ID because it assumed more would stay home than did.

But the above polling is neither. It's a REGISTERED VOTER poll. In most states, the RV is more favorable to Ds than the LVs.

So how can a state that clearly has more Democrats as registered voters in 2012 (something probably like +8-10D) all of a sudden become +3R? It's nonsense. It defies all logic. It would require party shifts we've never seen since the Civil Rights stuff. Sorry, but this isn't happening.

If the above poll was a Likely Voter poll (something kind of stupid this far out) then maybe it would be cause for concern. At least it would be a guess on what the actual electorate will look like. But it's not, it's a measure of registered voters and we are almost certain they're wrong.

Unless young people are registering as republicans and people are switching parties by significant margins in the last 3 years, you can wipe your ass with this polling.


Note: I am not trying to argue Hillary is ahead by a lot or that she may not be in trouble. But this poll is junk for the similar reasons I argued the Gallop polls were junk in 2012. If you recall, I didn't believe those polls were outliers but rather garbage because it oversampled the South by wide margins. Outliers happen 5% of the time if you do polling CORRECTLY. If you fuck it up, you're not going to get just outliers, you're going to get bad outputs.



On a side note, kudos to Lindsey Graham for a good video response to Trump. I found it funny.
 
Did a quick check on Colorado in 2012. The last RV screen by PPP (latest I could find) had D+4 and Obama +7 on Mitt among the RVs.

Virginia's last had them EVEN and just down 1 to Indies. I found one from Quinn but can't find the voter ID but it seems like their Indy mention is way too high for their numbers to work. Of course the PPP had it +8 Obama and Q tied around the same time.

So yeah, it looks like Quinnipac is just being shitty.

edit: found the breakdown. I was right!

28-28 tie by 37% independents. Fucking junk polling is junk.
 

NeoXChaos

Member
Clinton has collapsed. She's running a horrible campaign, not talking to voters, and is just as stiff as Romney. I really don't think she's as good of a general election candidate as advertised; how do you win if you can't give a decent stump speech, handle the media, etc? Talent wise she's far closer to Kerry, McCain and Romney than W Bush or Obama.

And once again she is paying consultants and staff ridiculous amounts of money with nothing to show for it.

No wonder Biden is thinking about running.

starting a bit early dont you think? I figure this would be something I would read in September 2016.
 
We should be asking what has caused dem ID numbers to plummet, not questioning the poll. I'd imagine it's Obama Fatigue and the economy, which isn't good to many regular people.

Maybe Sanders would be a better candidate? If his numbers are the same as Hillary's right now, they can only go up once people get to know him...
 

NeoXChaos

Member
We should be asking what has caused dem ID numbers to plummet, not questioning the poll. I'd imagine it's Obama Fatigue and the economy, which isn't good to many regular people.

Maybe Sanders would be a better candidate? If his numbers are the same as Hillary's right now, they can only go up once people get to know him...

PD, The poll is junk. Don't start this so early.
 
We should be asking what has caused dem ID numbers to plummet, not questioning the poll. I'd imagine it's Obama Fatigue and the economy, which isn't good to many regular people.

Maybe Sanders would be a better candidate? If his numbers are the same as Hillary's right now, they can only go up once people get to know him...

We need to be asking why Mitt Romney isn't President right now considering Gallup said he would be.
 
We should be asking what has caused dem ID numbers to plummet, not questioning the poll. I'd imagine it's Obama Fatigue and the economy, which isn't good to many regular people.

Maybe Sanders would be a better candidate? If his numbers are the same as Hillary's right now, they can only go up once people get to know him...

Fool me once, etc.
 
We should be asking what has caused dem ID numbers to plummet, not questioning the poll. I'd imagine it's Obama Fatigue and the economy, which isn't good to many regular people.

Maybe Sanders would be a better candidate? If his numbers are the same as Hillary's right now, they can only go up once people get to know him...
You're trying too hard.
 
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