Sounds like someone picked up a history book and stopped reading at the Civil Rights chapter.
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PoliGAF 2015 |OT| Keep Calm and Diablos On
- Thread starter Aaron Strife
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Sounds like someone picked up a history book and stopped reading at the Civil Rights chapter.
NihonTiger90
Member
If it makes you feel any sadder ... the Toledo TV stations are actually reporting on it.
And just when I thought it couldn't get funnier, here's my favorite reaction on FreeRepublic:
The thread has some gems already..
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3278837/posts
RustyNails
Member
Quick PD, tell us what your waifu Jennifer Rubin thought of Marco Polo's speech.
Thanks for introducing me to this website guys, it's been a wonderful accompaniment to my midday bathroom break
what is an Izze?
CrimzonSamurai
Member
Reminds me of that time that Barry O went to Five Guys. Traffic was shut down in like a whole ward of the District.
PhoenixDark
Banned
https://twitter.com/JRubinBlogger/status/587745413903556608
Admittedly...Hillary isn't a good public speaker.
His use of the term "Democrat Party" is the easy sign that he gets his opinions from terrible right wing sources. His "Republicans abolished slavery" bit is just sad and smacks of lack of critical thinking skills. There's a video of Rand Paul trying that bit at a speech at Howard University and the audience is smart enough to know better.
CrimzonSamurai
Member
I like how none of his Democratic "pros" occur during the same time period.
RustyNails
Member
After Rubio's disastrous SOTU response, it's not far fetched to believe that Rubio took public speaking classes from insider Washington types. Hillary is no Obama, neither is Rubio. But Hillary has been in the spotlight longer.
NYCmetsfan
Banned
Rubio has always been a good speaker. The SOTU was a fluke. He's always been good.
Aaron Strife
Banned
Poll of Indiana's gubernatorial race in 2016 has John Gregg tied with Mike Pence 47-47. Gregg was the nominee in 2012 and came surprisingly close, only losing by a little more than three points in a race most everyone wrote off.
Gregg said in 2013 that he wasn't interested in running again but has said he's reconsidered within the past few months.
Hope this bodes well for say, picking up Indiana Senate even if Bayh doesn't jump in.
Gregg said in 2013 that he wasn't interested in running again but has said he's reconsidered within the past few months.
Hope this bodes well for say, picking up Indiana Senate even if Bayh doesn't jump in.
PhoenixDark
Banned
He's always been a good speaker, but giving a speech and giving a SOTU response are two different things. Nobody does a decent SOTU response; you just can't match the optics that the president just displayed mere minutes before your performance. Nor is there a crowd to clap or cheer for you.
Rubio will give impressive stump speeches all spring/summer. I'm more curious to see how he debates. People laugh at Cruz but he's a very good debater, and will win crowds over. I want to see how Rubio and others respond.
Likewise I want to see how he defends his record of..nothingness. He hasn't passed any laws or stopped Obama from doing anything. Cruz hasn't either of course, but he can probably demagogue his way out of that. Someone will end up as the fringe conservative alternative who lasts a decent amount of time. Meanwhile Rubio has to somehow get into a three man race with Jeb and Walker for the establishment choice. I think Jeb will falter with conservative voters, and I'm starting to think Walker could simply implode due to being boring and a bad speaker. If I was Rubio's adviser my goal would be to get between those guys and wait for someone to falter.
Ultimately the red flag could be his immigration dealings. Gotta think Cruz and others will slam him about that.
NYCmetsfan
Banned
Is that bill richardson at 2:39?
I miss liberal southerners. I love people with a southern drawl speaking about liberal priorities
titiklabingapat
Member
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/04/an-unabashedly-liberal-hillary-clinton/390339/
Pretty good analysis of what's different between the Hillary of 2008 and the Hillary of today. I was definitely impressed with Hillary's video theme.
Pretty good analysis of what's different between the Hillary of 2008 and the Hillary of today. I was definitely impressed with Hillary's video theme.
Chait in top trolling form -
Uninsured Rate Falls Again for Random Reason Totally Unrelated to Obamacare
Uninsured Rate Falls Again for Random Reason Totally Unrelated to Obamacare
I really think Rubio will go up against Bush and have a bitter primary fight only to later settle for VP.
It would be a formidable ticket not to mention their best chance of locking down Florida. Jeb would usher in the traditional GOP vote, Rubio would help bring young people to the polls.
It would be a formidable ticket not to mention their best chance of locking down Florida. Jeb would usher in the traditional GOP vote, Rubio would help bring young people to the polls.
All over the country, millenias will get off their couch, drop their bongs and xbox controlers and proudly proclaim - "I know I don't usually care about politics, but Marco Rubio is running for vice president, I'm going to rock the shit out of this vote".
Hobbestetrician
Member
Not how it works. Electors "vote by ballot for two persons, of whom one at least shall not be an inhabitant of the same state with themselves" so only half of Florida's electoral votes could go to a Bush/Rubio ticket.
Why? The same reasoning that swung women to McCain/Palin?
jamesinclair
Banned
All the republicans need to win is for the young vote to stay home.
And with a hawk fossil on the ballot, that's all but guaranteed.
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
Iraq is old news. It's all about how ISIS is going to destroy the world, and that's an environment a hawk like Hillary can probably live with. You also have the other side practically pushing for a war with Iran, making Hillary look like a dove in comparison.
Abinash117
Member
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/marc...everse-obama-foreign-policy/story?id=30292526
I can see partly that Hillary Clintion will be Obama 3rd term; I think that may be something that may appeal to a chunk of people considering she supports some of Obama's policies and mostly won't get rid of them.
Most Americans, according to polls, support action against ISIS and many people think Obama doesn't do a go job in foreign policy, I can see many moderates and independents supporting a democrat that's like her because of that.
I can see partly that Hillary Clintion will be Obama 3rd term; I think that may be something that may appeal to a chunk of people considering she supports some of Obama's policies and mostly won't get rid of them.
Iraq is old news. It's all about how ISIS is going to destroy the world, and that's an environment a hawk like Hillary can probably live with. You also have the other side practically pushing for a war with Iran, making Hillary look like a dove in comparison.
Most Americans, according to polls, support action against ISIS and many people think Obama doesn't do a go job in foreign policy, I can see many moderates and independents supporting a democrat that's like her because of that.
Young people aren't going to vote for an anti-gay, anti-Marijuana, anti-woman's rights, anti-immigration, pro-guns, pro-war candidate just because he's also "young".
Yeah, Brown is pretty charismatic, in a straight-talk/no bullshit kind of way. He's easily one of my favorite senators and I'm very impressed how he's done so well in such a closely divided state as Ohio while being an unapologetic progressive. I know he's repeatedly said he has no interest in anything beyond the Senate, but I think he'd be pretty successful if he ever jumped into the Presidential arena.
I voted for Gregg and would again. I'm always a fan of leaders with facial hair, and the dude had the best campaign signs of anyone on the ballot for anything in Indiana in 2012
Define stay at home, Obama got a lower youth turnout in 2012 than John Kerry and he won quite easily.
Also, I'm willing to bet a Hillary ticket will get higher than average youth turnout since there will be a non negligible part of the electorate who would want to cast a vote for the first woman president.
Either way, VP picks almost never matter and someone like Rubio is sure not going to move the needle for the GOP.
Never trust a man with two first names.I voted for Gregg and would again. I'm always a fan of leaders with facial hair, and the dude had the best campaign signs of anyone on the ballot for anything in Indiana in 2012
I'd like to see a few more polls (that aren't commissioned by the HRC, bless their gay little hearts) before I see that as a viable race.
EDIT: Remind me to never go into the comments section of anything related to Rand Paul. Good lord.
NYCmetsfan
Banned
From conservative twitter:
Is there a more useless people on earth than political pundits?
Video game journalists?
BertramCooper
Banned
Speaking of Sherrod Brown, he gave a really great speech on the Senate floor yesterday in support of same-sex marriage.
Recall that one of Ohio's senators has a gay son. It is not Sherrod Brown.
How badly would this screw up the Iranian deal if this happens?
Aaron Strife
Banned
That's because Democrats are generally supportive of gay rights simply because it's the right thing to do (or out of political expediency if you want to be cynical). Republicans only support gay rights when they find out someone in their family, usually a son or daughter is gay. And even then not always.
To make a broad generalization, liberals understand problems that don't affect them directly, whereas conservatives can't understand them until they hit home.
Jennifer Rubin right?
PhoenixDark
Banned
lol
And if gay marriage/rights weren't so readily supported by the public democrats would hold the same civil unions position they held just a couple years ago
Aaron Strife
Banned
Is there any issue where that doesn't apply? Poverty, climate change, healthcare etc.
Yes Democrats had to come around to supporting gay marriage from supporting civil unions. Now tell me which party is passing laws telling pizzerias they don't have to serve gay people. In 2015.
PhoenixDark
Banned
I wouldn't compare political issues to matters of civil rights. Playing politics with civil rights strikes me as not genuine.
Lincoln didn't really like black people which, if I understand your point, would make the emancipation proclamation "not genuine". Does that really matter?
Aaron Strife
Banned
Gay rights are perhaps the defining issue where the Democrats and Republicans couldn't be much further apart. Come the fuck on. With the exception of Joe Manchin every single elected Democratic U.S. Senator supports gay marriage. With the exception of Mark Kirk, Lisa Murkowski and Susan Collins every single elected Republican U.S. Senator is opposed.
And that's marriage - plenty of Republicans are still opposed to antidiscrimination laws, the DADT repeal, Matthew Shepard Act etc. which Democrats have overwhelmingly supported for years.
As far as "playing politics" - conservatives made civil rights politics. We've crossed that bridge a long time ago.
PhoenixDark
Banned
To be fair, Lincoln is constantly portrayed as being sympathetic to the "Negro problem" when in reality he wasn't. I'm fine with telling it like it is with respect to him. General Grant and a variety of other Union supporters were racist, that's just reality. I just think it should be recognized - I'm not discounting what Lincoln did. But let's not pretend it was done out of the kindness of his heart or to save the black man. Nor do I believe the initial democrat support for gay rights is 100% genuine. It's largely a political calculation, just like republican opposition is.
That being said, I'm sympathetic to the argument that people can truly "evolve" to the right position on these issues. I don't believe everyone opposed to gay marriage is a bigot. I think a large portion of the opposition is based around tradition, without much thought being put into it. Similar to many people who were opposed to interracial marriage. Many were racist, but a good deal were in the "that's how things are" camp. In short, those people moving from "no" to "yes" are a big reason the nation has evolved. IE when people realize their opposition has no logical or personal justification.
Aaron Strife
Banned
Speaking of Joe Manchin
Great numbers for Manchin, PPP gave him weaker approval ratings a while back. There may be hope for WV after all. If Manchin went back to being governor maybe Earl Ray Tomblin (the current gov, approval rating at 54%) could hold his Senate seat.
PhoenixDark
Banned
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewi...ses-social-security-medicare-medicaid-changes
I'm open to expanding means testing of entitlements (but not at 80k/yr)...but I prefer fixing SS by raising the income cap. That's the easiest, most logical thing to do.
BTW Christie is the absolute worst person to take the "tough on entitlements" stance. Paul Ryan gets away with it by seeming genuine and looking smart, whereas Christie is a seen as a bully. Can't wait to see him yelling at some old person about being a leech...
I have to say.. LGBT voters were pretty sharp when it comes to playing the long game.
I still remember the Romer v Evans decision coming out in 1996. What was driven over & over during the ensuing TV coverage: the contrast between the parties' reactions was night & day. We could read between the lines in knowing which party would be more likely to help us out in the judiciary, while knowing that the environment wasn't right for anything major getting done in the legislature until public opinion could be somehow turned.
Pollsters started asking during the 90s about voters' sexual orientations. From cycle to cycle, it was pretty consistently around 5% of the electorate - enough to provide the margin of victory in a lot of races. Pretty impressive turnout rates for a subset of voters. Gay folks could've insisted on some more absolutist positions in exchange for their votes, but - like the Democrats - they were realistic - they knew that some of those positions were untenable as far as the more political branches were concerned.
What really changed things was when people started coming out. Just a few decades back, the closet was the norm. Now, almost everyone knows someone. Society, culture, interpersonal relationships.. it all changed really quickly. If you had told me back in high school in the early 90s that we'd be at this point, I would've been shocked. I tend to think it caught both parties by surprise as well.
I don't know if we could've been further along than where we are right now. If the Democrats had been a bit more outspoken or brave on these issues, I really don't know how it would've turned out.
I still remember the Romer v Evans decision coming out in 1996. What was driven over & over during the ensuing TV coverage: the contrast between the parties' reactions was night & day. We could read between the lines in knowing which party would be more likely to help us out in the judiciary, while knowing that the environment wasn't right for anything major getting done in the legislature until public opinion could be somehow turned.
Pollsters started asking during the 90s about voters' sexual orientations. From cycle to cycle, it was pretty consistently around 5% of the electorate - enough to provide the margin of victory in a lot of races. Pretty impressive turnout rates for a subset of voters. Gay folks could've insisted on some more absolutist positions in exchange for their votes, but - like the Democrats - they were realistic - they knew that some of those positions were untenable as far as the more political branches were concerned.
What really changed things was when people started coming out. Just a few decades back, the closet was the norm. Now, almost everyone knows someone. Society, culture, interpersonal relationships.. it all changed really quickly. If you had told me back in high school in the early 90s that we'd be at this point, I would've been shocked. I tend to think it caught both parties by surprise as well.
I don't know if we could've been further along than where we are right now. If the Democrats had been a bit more outspoken or brave on these issues, I really don't know how it would've turned out.
NYCmetsfan
Banned
Don't be. Its a Trojan horse to lowering and lowering that bar and causing the rich to not care about preserving it at all. Its universality its its greatest strength
The is blanently saying screw kids and young adults. I got mine.
Coriolanus
Banned
I sometimes wonder about that. Seems that everybody always knew a guy, especially since, if you go by the statistics on the likelihood of someone in your family being gay, it doesn't take a very large extended family size before it's all but assured. They just... turned a blind eye. Which most likely had a lot to do with how quickly the movement gained acceptance once coming out stopped being a borderline death sentence.
As exemplified by the Cheney's.
That's exactly what it is.
Although realistically I agree that this is the way changes to these benefits should be made, very very far in advance so as not to affect those currently relying on them.
I think raising/eliminating the income cap makes a lot more sense than this though. Everyone pays now and everyone benefits later is the way it should be. Eliminate any income testing now or later. As to age, that's a tougher one, but it should probably be lowered not raised.
Yup. Maybe I should've said now almost everyone knows someone fully out? Not sure.
Our family had one older cousin who lived with her "roommate" of 30 years. No one ever talked about it. Same with an uncle and his "friend."
Nowadays, fewer people seem dance around it or pretend to ignore. It just is.
Funny enough, I do see plenty of folks on conservative websites saying that they wish we could go back to that "everyone knows-nobody talks" arrangement. They badly want that genie back in the bottle, lol..
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