Morning Joe is an embarrassment. He wants to full out endorse Trump but he needs Trump to pivot first because he's too much of a coward to admit that he's perfectly fine with a racist, sexist bigot as president.
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PoliGAF 2016 |OT5| Archdemon Hillary Clinton vs. Lice Traffic Jam
- Thread starter Spoiled Milk
- Start date
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Morning Joe is an embarrassment. He wants to full out endorse Trump but he needs Trump to pivot first because he's too much of a coward to admit that he's perfectly fine with a racist, sexist bigot as president.
hammysaurusrex
Member
Sanders as VP is a total fantasy and not going to happen. He simply doesn't bring anything meaningful to the position.
He doesn't win states in the general election.
He can't be reliable in a situation of poor health on Hillary's part.
He's not a particularly skilled debater or attack dog.
He doesn't have any unique political experience that helps Hillary govern - she's already been a senator.
I understand why Sanders people might want this to happen and I can see the tortured logic of it being an "olive branch", but it's simply not what's best for the country.
That being said, I think Sanders could be a potential viable secretary of certain departments.
He doesn't win states in the general election.
He can't be reliable in a situation of poor health on Hillary's part.
He's not a particularly skilled debater or attack dog.
He doesn't have any unique political experience that helps Hillary govern - she's already been a senator.
I understand why Sanders people might want this to happen and I can see the tortured logic of it being an "olive branch", but it's simply not what's best for the country.
That being said, I think Sanders could be a potential viable secretary of certain departments.
The Lamonster
Member
aspiegamer
Member
--Part of Clinton's donations happen to include persons employed by gun manufacturers. This is the same line of attack for her "taking money from" Wall St, etc. Sanders technically takes the same money. It's individuals. It's not money from the actual corporations themselves or lobbying groups. That would be illegal as hell. I have no idea what this gun selling is, though. As a Senator or Secretary of State that's not the realm of thing she deals with. Go ask the Pentagon, or the CIA maybe?
--Clinton having to act nice to foreign leaders that either we (the US) or the international community object to for various reasons is part of what the Secretary of State does. It's part of the normal course of diplomacy. Hell, our "friends" in the middle easy of Saudi Arabia, Bahrain and Israel have massive human rights abuses aplenty and we magically let those slide. Actually, Turkey, Egypt... okay seriously EVERY country in the region does incredibly questionable shit. Is Sanders advocating axing relations with these all these allies? What about the Japanese, who refuse to apologize for war crimes? Break relations with them, too? I seriously doubt it. Thus the point is invalid and/or Sanders would be hypocritical in stating it.
--That... sorta happened? I think the idea was to try to force elections sooner which would (in theory) settle things down, but that's not how it played out. What might have made things worst was the State Dept apparently not talking directly to Obama to see what his objectives were. Clinton has admitted the situation was botched. There are some talking points on this that are exaggerated, but there's no denying that things could have been much better.
--The no-fly zone is indeed insane. I want think her intentions were smarter than "hey let's threaten to shoot down the Russians," but that's making assumptions. Just the statement as-is is insane. Completely insane.
Generic retort to any of these things: Does Sanders have any foreign policy experience? At all? Or proposed policies and strategies? How would he have handled any of these situations? Does he personally know any of the leaders of these countries? Because Clinton almost assuredly does. Blah blah blah. Trying to question her overall credentials on foreign policy versus Sanders is a comedic adventure.
If it's not sheer, irrational emotion guiding your views, then the only other choices are pure ignorance or that you are completely aware and therefore agree with the gravity of choosing someone like that despite what he has done. Because this is NOT an ordinary candidate. This is NOT simply voting for someone with a different ideological bent who you think might do a better job fixing the problem.
This is voting for someone who as of now presented himself as a freakish authoritarian egomaniac with a bent for massive misogyny, cruelty and racism. A bully who has a pulpit, and who has:
● Endorsed committing a war crime - the murdering of innocent women and children
● Endorsed flagrantly violating the Constitution
● Endorsed physical violence against the opposition on multiple occasions
● Endorsed out and out misoygny in virtually every possible way imaginable
● Endorsed igniting a nuclear arms race in Asia
● Endored full bodied racism in virtually every way possible
● Failed to discuss any substantive policy initiatives with anything approaching coherence instead opting to use his time suggesting fucking inept fairy tales
● Threatened the country and the Republican party with violence and riots if he is not the nominee.
Because, and I quote:
Because he's anti-TPP and he, uh, wants to get rid of the Department of Education? These aren't even policy proposals. What would education look like in America without the Department of Education? How will it be funded? What controls or regulations would be put in place? It's more pie-in-the-sky garbage that would NEVER get passed and doesn't even stand on coherent ground.
But hey, if being anti-TPP means that you can accept that abhorrent of an individual, at least drop the fucking nonsense about the two candidates being equivalent and that both choices are equally valid. You go down your rabbit hole on your own, and embarrass yourself as you try to justify your position. But nobody is going to let you bullshit your way through these discussions. If you can't come up with a better reason that both candidates are equal but opposite ideological choices - especially after understanding truly who Trump is - then you're just as bad as he is, and everyone should you call you on that.
do people seriously keep bringing this up? Because its terribly dumb.
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
Not to mention all the skeletons in his closet. VPs need to be more clean than the President in elections and the amount of shit Sanders has said makes him unviable in the GE.
shinra-bansho
Member
She was never mayor of Burlington. Checkmate.
there is 6 months left until the election. The Establishment can fix that
Haha, at the comment asking for a poll with Bernie as an independent candidate.
"We only poll things with a basis in reality. Ted Cruz may indeed be the Zodiac Killer, Bernie Sanders won't be on the presidential ballot"
You are welcome PPP Twitter account, you can feel free to use that
Officerrob
Banned
"Could you poll for a three way race in November with Bernie Sanders as an Independent? A lot of his supporters are encouraging him to run as a third party candidate and believe he would win."
He can't beat Hillary, but he's going to win the presidency as an independent? Right...
Hexa
Member
Uh... should we be worried?
http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/a...-line-to-receive-top-u-s-intelligence-secrets
http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/a...-line-to-receive-top-u-s-intelligence-secrets
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
I believe Obama gets to approve or disapprove of what he gets sent every day
BotoxAgent
Member
it's because the system is RIGGED! (but only the states Hillary won, not Bernies because those are legit)
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-gop-doesnt-seem-to-be-cracking-up-in-down-ballot-races/
Interesting and slightly depressing read.
Perhaps nothing will really change at all, even with Trump on the GOP ticket.
Interesting and slightly depressing read.
Perhaps nothing will really change at all, even with Trump on the GOP ticket.
Yeah, I've talked to a few Republicans who prefer Bernie for this very reason.
ThLunarian
Member
You are my favorite person in this thread right now. Thanks very much!
I hope she walks back the no-fly zone talk going forward, if it really is that insane.
The Lamonster
Member
That is depressing, but it helps to keep in mind that people get what they deserve in terms of elected officials. I can think of one US city who I'm sure really regrets voting in a certain governor...
All you can do is vote and hope more similarly intelligent people vote too.
Like clockwork, somebody comes to defend him. Yes he is a white supremacist. He gets support from white supremacist groups, and does not dismiss their support. He constantly retweets white supremacists. He is a racist. He has constantly made disparaging comments about other races. He has a history of discriminating against minority tenants.
And if you defend him or support him, I consider you one too.
Spoiled Milk
Banned
Uh, I have a better answer for the no-fly zone.
It was proposed before Russia had ever gotten militarily involved, and in fact that was only possible for them because we left a power vacuum there. The no fly zone was to protect people in Syria from being bombed by Assad.
Second, Russia has ceased combat operations in Syria and so any no fly-zone imposed would not have to shoot down any Russians. P.S., the last pediatrician in Damascus just died last week, so maybe it's too late.
Huelen now in quantum state of voting
Astonishing.
Are you kidding? Trump supporting MMT will break PoliGAF. I think Kristoffer organized this.
VendettaRed07
Member
I'm not so sure that it isn't tbh. This primary has been revealing.
Vestal
Junior Member
"I love debt"
I just can't......
Spoiled Milk
Banned
Aaron Strife
Banned
What does he think we are, a Nintendo DS?
Officerrob
Banned
This fucking guy....
FloydtheFathead
Member
Is this what brings back Empty Vessel?
Joe Shlabotnik
Banned
Somewhere, Empty Vessel's eyes suddenly spring open as he gasps for air, warmth finally returning to his body.
Edit: DAMMIT
Edit: DAMMIT
RustyNails
Member
EV was Trump all along. It prints money!
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
Another Baileys and cereal, bartender.
Joe Shlabotnik
Banned
Considering Paul Ryan's family history of heart disease, I think this counts as attempted murder.
FloydtheFathead
Member
There's not enough Bailey's in the world..
FloydtheFathead
Member
Patrick J. Egan ‏@Patrick_J_Egan 2h2 hours ago
Sanders drawing votes from white Dems who: dislike Obama, are resentful against blacks & want less liberal policies
I wonder if there's a word for people like that...
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
I never understood the arguments otherwise. I have lived in rural America my entire life. Trump on the ballot will not stop these people from voting for their local GOP candidate.
RustyNails
Member
Actually I am 60-40 on MMT. EV made really well laid out case for it. Our inflation is still historically low despite Fed printing $3t to buy low yield bonds during the recession. Our economy has $3t floating around that it didn't before 2008, and we could have gone even further.
The government can print money (by adding 0s to reserve bank) and extinguish money (by collecting your taxes and removing 0's).
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
teruterubozu
Member
I guess the idea is that with Trump on the ticket less Republicans will come out to vote, but that conventional wisdom seems to be dying.
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
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