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[Holmes]

https://amp.pastemagazine.com/artic...s-progressive-millennial-running-for-con.html

Muh Democrats are too establishment and not left-wing enough so I'm running for the far-right party in a district that I think Democrats will never win despite Clinton winning it last year.

 

[B-Dubs]

https://amp.pastemagazine.com/artic...s-progressive-millennial-running-for-con.html

Muh Democrats are too establishment and not left-wing enough so I'm running for the far-right party in a district that I think Democrats will never win despite Clinton winning it last year.

Yea, I saw that yesterday and literally slammed my face into my desk. Every single part of that story is stupid beyond belief.

 

[Holmes]

Yea, I saw that yesterday and literally slammed my face into my desk. Every single part of that story is stupid beyond belief.

Idiots on Twitter asking "are we on the cusp of a party flip???"

 

[BoogieWoogie]

So since we're back here once again. What is the particular purpose of looking at three arbitrary locales? Beyond an attempt to classplain #notallracistvoting I guess.

I mean there's this kind of obsessive need (by white people) to figure out "why are these other white people racist" as if there'll be some eureka moment to show it's the egg not the chicken. Okay sure there's some degree of need for these voters to come back into the fold - I understand that. And is #economicanxiety contributing to underlying racial resentment being displayed in voting patterns, I think probably, to varying degrees. Is it being easily turned on the "other" sure. Is everyone chomping at the bit to join a lynch mob, no, obviously - but there's a strange idea that you need to get to this point to be like a real racist. (I guess perhaps then racial resentment, our PC version of racist should be the go to.)

But for the most part it often feels like these discussions are more about absolving responsibility. Downplaying racism/racial resentment as just a symptom. And soothing one's own sensibilities that surely not that many people can be racists. That deep down everyone's good people, because the magnitude of racists makes it implausible.

People are racist.
Lots of people.

Lots of people aren't necessarily racist, but it was staggering how many were cool with our President being one to get what they wanted. I will never fucking understand how over 50% of white women voted for Trump after the video. Like HOW

 

[Carpe Libertatem]

https://amp.pastemagazine.com/artic...s-progressive-millennial-running-for-con.html

Muh Democrats are too establishment and not left-wing enough so I'm running for the far-right party in a district that I think Democrats will never win despite Clinton winning it last year.

lol like she'd ever win the GOP primary

 

[royalan]

So since we're back here once again. What is the particular purpose of looking at three arbitrary locales? Beyond an attempt to classplain #notallracistvoting I guess.

I mean there's this kind of obsessive need (by white people) to figure out "why are these other white people racist" as if there'll be some eureka moment to show it's the egg not the chicken. Okay sure there's some degree of need for these voters to come back into the fold - I understand that. And is #economicanxiety contributing to underlying racial resentment being displayed in voting patterns, I think probably, to varying degrees. Is it being easily turned on the "other" sure. Is everyone chomping at the bit to join a lynch mob, no, obviously - but there's a strange idea that you need to get to this point to be like a real racist. (I guess perhaps then racial resentment, our PC version of racist should be the go to.)

But for the most part it often feels like these discussions are more about absolving responsibility. Downplaying racism/racial resentment as just a symptom. And soothing one's own sensibilities that surely not that many people can be racists. That deep down everyone's good people, because the magnitude of racists makes it implausible.

People are racist.
Lots of people.

Amen.

 

[Ogodei]

Trump thinks Kushner is "a natural," basically that he's a gifted businessmen, and because he's family, he's someone Trump can also trust entirely, so he gives Kushner everything.

There are many, many problems with this, unless Kushner really is the genius renaissance man of our day, the next coming of Benjamin Franklin who could play the role of Postmaster General, inventor, constitutional convention delegate, and Ambassador to France, but this also isn't the 18th century.

Kushner's going to get his ass kicked by people who are only doing one job, unless he really is the wunderkind Trump says.

 

[Bonen no Max'd]

Trump thinks Kushner is "a natural," basically that he's a gifted businessmen, and because he's family, he's someone Trump can also trust entirely, so he gives Kushner everything.

There are many, many problems with this, unless Kushner really is the genius renaissance man of our day, the next coming of Benjamin Franklin who could play the role of Postmaster General, inventor, constitutional convention delegate, and Ambassador to France, but this also isn't the 18th century.

Kushner's going to get his ass kicked by people who are only doing one job, unless he really is the wunderkind Trump says.

Kushner has accomplished the one thing Trump never* could though: having sex with Ivanka. Trump can live vicariously through him.

*please god let me be right about that statement

 

[BoogieWoogie]

Kushner's going to get his ass kicked by people who are only doing one job, unless he really is the wunderkind Trump says.

Kushner took a week long skiing trip during the Healthcare vote, arguably one of the biggest hurdles/promises that Trump made on the campaign. Not much hope in the wunderkind theory.

 

[Poodlestrike]

https://amp.pastemagazine.com/artic...s-progressive-millennial-running-for-con.html

Muh Democrats are too establishment and not left-wing enough so I'm running for the far-right party in a district that I think Democrats will never win despite Clinton winning it last year.

New Jersey Democratic Party politics are a machine in which “you’d better be putting in the money or the sweat equity” to earn the support of “party bosses,” Brown tells me. “It’s everything I’m running against.”

That seems reasonable en... no, wait, hold one, what's that one bit. Zoom in.

New Jersey Democratic Party politics are a machine in which “you’d better be putting in the money or the sweat equity”

“you’d better be putting in the money or the sweat equity” “It’s everything I’m running against.”

“you’d better be putting in the sweat equity”

“It’s everything I’m running against.”

"Gawd why won't this obnoxious Democrats just get out of my way and give me a congress seat? Why do they have to insist I put in time working for or helping the party first? SO UNREASONABLE AND CORRUPT."

If she was in... like, Idaho, or somewhere the Magic R is actually magic, fine. But she's in New Jersey. In a district Clinton won.

Whosawhathuh

 

[B-Dubs]

Idiots on Twitter asking "are we on the cusp of a party flip???"

Even the guy who wrote the article has been going around acting like it's the future or whatever. There's a line in there that I love simply because of how fucking dumb it is and it shows the ass of both the writer and the fool running.

New Jersey Democratic Party politics are a machine in which “you’d better be putting in the money or the sweat equity” to earn the support of “party bosses,” Brown tells me. “It’s everything I’m running against.” Though personally a fan of Hillary Clinton, Brown reminds me that her nomination was essentially shoehorned by the establishment—a way to illustrate that the problem is not isolated to her state.

How is the bold a bad thing? You should have to put in work to get that support. Why should the people running the party back a candidate that isn't willing to go door-to-door to get signatures or donate money or help get people elected? You can't just show up and expect support, that shit gets earned.

lol like she'd ever win the GOP primary

Seriously, she sounds like a moron and the writer doesn't sound much better.

 

[pigeon]

Allow Gorush confirmation without use of nuclear option in exchange for Select Committee/Independent Investigation of Trump-Russia.

They have to pass the select committee first.

 

[pigeon]

Lots of people aren't necessarily racist, but it was staggering how many were cool with our President being one to get what they wanted. I will never fucking understand how over 50% of white women voted for Trump after the video. Like HOW

Also, as Neera Tanden tweeted and as I should be more vocal about, that half the country voted for an admitted sexual predator. There's a reason 85% of calls to Congress this year have come from women.

 

[East Lake]

So since we're back here once again. What is the particular purpose of looking at three arbitrary locales? Beyond an attempt to classplain #notallracistvoting I guess.

I mean there's this kind of obsessive need (by white people) to figure out "why are these other white people racist" as if there'll be some eureka moment to show it's the egg not the chicken. Okay sure there's some degree of need for these voters to come back into the fold - I understand that. And is #economicanxiety contributing to underlying racial resentment being displayed in voting patterns, I think probably, to varying degrees. Is it being easily turned on the "other" sure. Is everyone chomping at the bit to join a lynch mob, no, obviously - but there's a strange idea that you need to get to this point to be like a real racist. (I guess perhaps then racial resentment, our PC version of racist should be the go to.)

But for the most part it often feels like these discussions are more about absolving responsibility. Downplaying racism/racial resentment as just a symptom. And soothing one's own sensibilities that surely not that many people can be racists. That deep down everyone's good people, because the magnitude of racists makes it implausible.

People are racist.
Lots of people.

So you concede that a lot of the arguments being made are in fact correct to some degree, but the real problem is that there's a hidden white supremacy apologetics going on.

Ever consider you shouldn't assume the worst when people don't agree with your opinions?

 

[Holmes]

I do believe that primaries and elections are much more easy for people with money and connections. It's not just a Democratic thing. It's like this in Republican states and districts too! But part of being a public official is being connected and using those connections to your advantage, even once you've made it into office. You can't just whine and pout and say you want the seat, then whine and pout until you have all your magical progressive proposals enacted. It's it how it works. The fact that she thinks Democrats have abandoned her because it's tough for her to be nominated and to run for the party that actually has an incumbent in the seat, and therefore has more connections and money, is really funny. Not to mention the party is against everything she believes in.

 

[shinra-bansho]

I assume the worst of everybody.

If anything, I'm being generous in saying the folks who are constantly banging the Citizens United and Glass Steagall repeal is the root of racism are being overly optimistic about the nature of people.

Anyway I only agree with some parts of some arguments to some degree. The baseline premise though in my calculation is that there are a lot of racists.

 

[Ogodei]

Idiots on Twitter asking "are we on the cusp of a party flip???"

The rumblings of a party flip are there, but racism and taxation are still the issues getting in its way. The corporate world is becoming more socially progressive, but they still won't truck with a party that demands an end to economic inequality. The GOP base is starting to see through the illusions of the establishment and understand that the GOP has never done anything but screw them, but they're still too bigoted to join with a party that's willing to help them.

 

[East Lake]

I assume the worst of everybody.

If anything, I'm being generous in saying the folks who are constantly banging the Citizens United and Glass Steagall repeal is the root of racism are being overly optimistic about the nature of people.

Anyway I only agree with some parts of some arguments to some degree. The baseline premise though in my calculation is that there are a lot of racists.

What do you think the causes of racism are that are mostly independent of economics situations?

 

[The Technomancer]

https://amp.pastemagazine.com/artic...s-progressive-millennial-running-for-con.html

Muh Democrats are too establishment and not left-wing enough so I'm running for the far-right party in a district that I think Democrats will never win despite Clinton winning it last year.

Yeah saw this earlier. This is the height of, and will be a real concrete test of, "progressive policies are secretly popular among conservatives!"

We'll see how that goes

 

[The Technomancer]

What do you think the causes of racism are that are mostly independent of economics situations?

That we can trace beyond some people just being assholes? Cultural isolation. There's a very real reason why racism tends to be negatively correlated with actually being around people of other races

 

[Holmes]

The party literally nominated Trump for president last year it's never happening! Omg

 

[B-Dubs]

Yeah saw this earlier. This is the height of, and will be a real concrete test of, "progressive policies are secretly popular among conservatives!"

We'll see how that goes

I mean, it's a Jersey district Clinton won so whoever gets picked from the GOP side is going to be moderate. Let's see her try this shit in Oklahoma.

 

[sc0la]

The Dolezal thread got locked, but it reminded me of this righteous shade from CNN I saw earlier but forgot to share here.

 

[shinra-bansho]

People suck? I mean this is basically (part of) what I'm referring to. This somewhat disingenuous implication - in absence of non-economic reasons, all attribution must be to economic anxiety.

 

[pigeon]

What do you think the causes of racism are that are mostly independent of economics situations?

Parenting?

This is such a weird framing. I think all causes of racism are mostly independent of economic situations. What makes you think they aren't?

 

[East Lake]

That we can trace beyond some people just being assholes? Cultural isolation. There's a very real reason why racism tends to be negatively correlated with actually being around people of other races

Parenting?

This is such a weird framing. I think all causes of racism are mostly independent of economic situations. What makes you think they aren't?

What's weird about it? I also didn't say the causes weren't parenting so before you introduce an argument I didn't make step back a bit. You think it's parenting, Technomancer thinks it's cultural isolation. If you're going to identify racism it seems like it might be good to have a concrete understanding of it.

 

[Bonen no Max'd]

Parenting?

This is such a weird framing. I think all causes of racism are mostly independent of economic situations. What makes you think they aren't?

The ways that elite institutions and actors promote it to prevent class solidarity? Jim Crow was created specifically as a reaction to the Populist-Republican fusion voting in North Carolina where poor whites and blacks joined together and challenged the class structure. The use of black workers to scab during white strikes is another.

 

[AntraxSuicide]

The racism from economic problems argument really really pisses me off because I grew up a rural white man raised by a racist, living below the poverty line eating food donated from various churches so we wouldn't starve or get DHS called on us, and yet somehow I'm not a racist!

On some level, this is paternalism; people want to believe that these people aren't responsible for their terrible beliefs, but adults can and should be held responsible for the things they believe, say, and do.

I'm reminded of a girl I knew freshman year of college who was opposed to gay rights even though she knew it was hateful because "that's just how I was raised and what I grew up with." Thankfully a bisexual woman

Spoiler

my wife now <3

responded with "bitch, you're not 12, you're a grown woman!"

*please god let me be right about that statement

*Ron Howard Arrested Development narration*
"He wasn't.*

Spoiler

bonus because AD is all about incest!

 

[royalan]

Lots of people aren't necessarily racist, but it was staggering how many were cool with our President being one to get what they wanted. I will never fucking understand how over 50% of white women voted for Trump after the video. Like HOW

Opinion: one of the worst tendencies of Democrats when it comes to messaging is our constant need to argue EVERYTHING from the fundamental position that everyone is good, all the time. We rarely like to paint people as...well, shitty. We never want to acknowledge the negative tendencies of people.

Where am I going with this? One of the biggest load-of-bullshit moments for me during the campaign was the Democratic response to the pussytape. We didn't use the incident to point out machismo run amok. That what we saw in that tape were the worst tendencies in people on display and that we as a society need to acknowledge them and turn away from them. Instead, we used them to paint Trump as abnormal in the worst, most dishonest way. We had men like Joe Biden getting in front of crowds and talking about how they had NEVER heard men talk like that in locker rooms and, by golly, if they had...POW! right in the kisser...

Bull-fucking-shit.

I may be gay as shit, but I went through gym just like everyone else. ANYBODY who has been in a male locker-room knows that what Trump said on that tape was TAME compared to what gets said in a locker-room. And women aren't stupid: they know that.

Trump survived pussy-gate because, at fucked up as it is, his campaign's response to it was honest in a way that average people understand. Democrats fucked it up by creating a world where shit like what was said on that tape NEVER happens, and nobody bought it.

 

[MetalGearZed]

*Ron Howard Arrested Development narration*
"He wasn't.*

Spoiler

bonus because AD is all about incest!

Les Cousins Dangereux

 

[pigeon]

What's weird about it? I also didn't say the causes weren't parenting so before you introduce an argument I didn't make step back a bit. You think it's parenting, Technomancer thinks it's cultural isolation. If you're going to identify racism it seems like it might be good to have a concrete understanding of it.

It's weird to ask what causes of racism are independent of economics when there is no particular reason to think the two are linked.

I think I have a reasonably concrete understanding of racism.

 

[Bonen no Max'd]

Is racism a constant, immutable factor (the population will be about the same level of racist at all times) or is it in flux due to varying factors? If it doesn't change, why were white nationalist candidates like George Wallace or Pat Buchanan unsuccessful in their bids for president while Trump succeeded? If it does change, what factors created the more racist electorate? Obama can be part of it, but the charts kirblar posted earlier showed it trending up as early as Kerry, and if he was the main cause of it, why would voters who give his presidency strong approval ratings flip parties because they were upset about the man they voted for being in the White House? If racism is caused by primarily parenting being racist, why did a new generation of parents become more racist? I'd say my dad is less racist than his (very racist) parents but my mom is probably a little more racist than her (very progressive) parents.

Also uh maybe I've just blocked out all memories of gym class but I definitely don't remember my classmates bragging about sexual assault.

If it's changing demographics shouldn't Japan not also be growing in hyperconservative nationalism. They've explicitly kept out non-Japanese.

 

[East Lake]

It's weird to ask what causes of racism are independent of economics when there is no particular reason to think the two are linked.

I think I have a reasonably concrete understanding of racism.

You seem to have trouble reading, and you certainly haven't demonstrated an understanding of racism in any posts I've seen. AntraxSuicide's experience seems to contradict your parenting claim!

 

[royalan]

Is racism a constant, immutable factor (the population will be about the same level of racist at all times) or is it in flux due to varying factors? If it doesn't change, why were white nationalist candidates like George Wallace or Pat Buchanan unsuccessful in their bids for president while Trump succeeded? If it does change, what factors created the more racist electorate? Obama can be part of it, but the charts kirblar posted earlier showed it trending up as early as Kerry, and if he was the main cause of it, why would voters who give his presidency strong approval ratings flip parties because they were upset about the man they voted for being in the White House? If racism is caused by primarily parenting being racist, why did a new generation of parents become more racist? I'd say my dad is less racist than his (very racist) parents but my mom is probably a little more racist than her (very progressive) parents.

Also uh maybe I've just blocked out all memories of gym class but I definitely don't remember my classmates bragging about sexual assault.

If it's changing demographics shouldn't Japan not also be growing in hyperconservative nationalism. They've explicitly kept out non-Japanese.

I feel like this question gets asked all the time, when the answer is obvious.

--TRUMP is a name. A name that has masquerader for decades as being synonymous with success. TRUMP added authority, legitimacy and publicity to the white supremacist message that we haven't seen in modern times. N

--The ostentatiousness of the message. Trump may be parroting the same racist message the Republican party has been pushing for decades, but no candidate has done so as blatantly. If liberals can acknowledge that an asset of Bernie Sanders was his blunt, unrehearsed manner and ability to "tell it as it is," we have to acknowledge that the right so those exact same quality in a fuckshit like Trump.

 

[AntraxSuicide]

Is racism a constant, immutable factor (the population will be about the same level of racist at all times) or is it in flux due to varying factors? If it doesn't change, why were white nationalist candidates like George Wallace or Pat Buchanan unsuccessful in their bids for president while Trump succeeded? If it does change, what factors created the more racist electorate? Obama can be part of it, but the charts kirblar posted earlier showed it trending up as early as Kerry, and if he was the main cause of it, why would voters who give his presidency strong approval ratings flip parties because they were upset about the man they voted for being in the White House? If racism is caused by primarily parenting being racist, why did a new generation of parents become more racist? I'd say my dad is less racist than his (very racist) parents but my mom is probably a little more racist than her (very progressive) parents.

Also uh maybe I've just blocked out all memories of gym class but I definitely don't remember my classmates bragging about sexual assault.

If it's changing demographics shouldn't Japan not also be growing in hyperconservative nationalism. They've explicitly kept out non-Japanese.

I'd guess it's something that exists in people who are assholes and decide scapegoating their problems is the solution and they don't have an issue with scapegoating them onto other races. However culturally we set a level of acceptance with this behavior; George Wallace was running at a time when more people were aware of and saw the outright oppression of black people. Today most white people handwave police murders as justified and don't believe in any other kinds of racism.

And yeah, that language is honestly pretty common. Fraternities run on shit like that, and those aren't exactly niche subsets of the male population.

And I'm not sure what you're saying about Japan; to my knowledge it is a hyperconservative nationalist society. The conservative party there has the government on lock and they're incredibly pro-Japanese.

 

[Crocodile]

Takeaway: Democrats have gotten less racist OR the most racist Democrats became Republicans.

Takeaway: White people, overall, are most pessimistic of the future even though they, as a group, still have it better off than everyone else.

Is racism a constant, immutable factor (the population will be about the same level of racist at all times) or is it in flux due to varying factors? If it doesn't change, why were white nationalist candidates like George Wallace or Pat Buchanan unsuccessful in their bids for president while Trump succeeded? If it does change, what factors created the more racist electorate? Obama can be part of it, but the charts kirblar posted earlier showed it trending up as early as Kerry, and if he was the main cause of it, why would voters who give his presidency strong approval ratings flip parties because they were upset about the man they voted for being in the White House? If racism is caused by primarily parenting being racist, why did a new generation of parents become more racist? I'd say my dad is less racist than his (very racist) parents but my mom is probably a little more racist than her (very progressive) parents.

Also uh maybe I've just blocked out all memories of gym class but I definitely don't remember my classmates bragging about sexual assault.

If it's changing demographics shouldn't Japan not also be growing in hyperconservative nationalism. They've explicitly kept out non-Japanese.

There are more PoC, both as an absolute and as a relative amount, in this country than ever before and that is only becoming more true by the day. One also ascended to the most visible position in the world. So PoC are becoming more visible, more outspoken ("stop killing us please?") and they are more of them overall but many of these non-southern counties/states vulnerable to White Supremacy don't have very many PoC in them so you don't get the moderating effect of "well my neighbor, co-worker, doctor, etc. is a PoC and they are pretty cool so maybe the rest of them in the country are cool too". Essentially, a lot of White people are getting triggered and reacting badly.

I'm not sure what Japan has to do with this as they've always been pretty homogeneous. In fact, my understanding is that they are starting to loosen up their immigration laws because they know they are in a death-spiral population/demographics wise.

EDIT: As an aside I've been in locker rooms and never heard the type of shit Trump was talking about. Like obviously "man that girl was hot did you see how big her tits were, etc." was common place but actual sexual assault talk? No dice. There was only one time I can recall someone I knew saying something close to as bad and pretty much everybody around including me told him off - we weren't having that. Also topics of conversation usually got less crass the older we got? Trump was fucking 60 when he said that shit.

 

[Bonen no Max'd]

The point about Japan is that they've taken a hyperconservative nationalist turn. It's always been a conservative country but Abe is new and different. They also haven't really experienced any kind of demographic change.

I feel like this question gets asked all the time, when the answer is obvious.

--TRUMP is a name. A name that has masquerader for decades as being synonymous with success. TRUMP added authority, legitimacy and publicity to the white supremacist message that we haven't seen in modern times. N

--The ostentatiousness of the message. Trump may be parroting the same racist message the Republican party has been pushing for decades, but no candidate has done so as blatantly. If liberals can acknowledge that an asset of Bernie Sanders was his blunt, unrehearsed manner and ability to "tell it as it is," we have to acknowledge that the right so those exact same quality in a fuckshit like Trump.

Uhhhh Wallace was way more racially explicit than Trump, his platform was "Segregation now, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever." and it got him 13% of the vote. That's a lot and was enough to get him absurd numbers in some states (65% of the vote in Alabama) but shouldn't he have done better if the key was to just be racially explicit?

 

[shinra-bansho]

I may be wrong, but you (Bonen) seem to be operating under the premise that racism and really prejudice and outgroup bias in general is only the overt, to conclude that society is necessarily "less racist" as opposed to just differently racist.

 

[royalan]

The point about Japan is that they've taken a hyperconservative nationalist turn. It's always been a conservative country but Abe is new and different. They also haven't really experienced any kind of demographic change.

Uhhhh Wallace was way more racially explicit than Trump, his platform was "Segregation now, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever." and it got him 13% of the vote. That's a lot and was enough to get him absurd numbers in some states (65% of the vote in Alabama) but shouldn't he have done better if the key was to just be racially explicit?

Wallace was 50 years ago. Fully realized black equality was still new back then. This isn't a fair comparison. Voters today don't give a shit about Wallace's campaign.

Trump as a politician operating today was more overtly racist than any modern and major Republican politician would dare to be. And this has been the case at least since the 80s.

 

[kirblar]

"I want to prove it's not about race!" *pulls out anecdote occurring prior to Nixon and the Southern Strategy* would be hilarious if it weren't happening on a daily basis.

EDIT: As an aside I've been in locker rooms and never heard the type of shit Trump was talking about. Like obviously "man that girl was hot did you see how big her tits were, etc." was common place but actual sexual assault talk? No dice. There was only one time I can recall someone I knew saying something close to as bad and pretty much everybody around including me told him off - we weren't having that. Also topics of conversation usually got less crass the older we got? Trump was fucking 60 when he said that shit.

Same. Tons of nasty fucked up fantasies, but never anything about sexual assault.

 

[Bonen no Max'd]

I may be wrong, but you (Bonen) seem to be operating under the premise that racism and really prejudice and outgroup bias in general is only the overt, to conclude that society is necessarily "less racist" as opposed to just differently racist.

It's not that I don't think overt racism is the only racism but I've always thought it was worse than non-overt? Nonwhites have more opportunity and equality now in relative terms even if in absolute terms it's still a very unequal and racist society. If the racism of the society isn't fluid shouldn't there be no gains of racial equality?

Wallace was 50 years ago. Fully realized black equality was still new back then. This isn't a fair comparison. Voters today don't give a shit about Wallace's campaign.

Trump as a politician operating today was more overtly racist than any modern and major Republican politician would dare to be. And this has been the case at least since the 80s.

Well okay so what changed that made Wallace-esque white supremacy impossible for 50 years until now?

 

[pigeon]

Is racism a constant, immutable factor (the population will be about the same level of racist at all times) or is it in flux due to varying factors? If it doesn't change, why were white nationalist candidates like George Wallace or Pat Buchanan unsuccessful in their bids for president while Trump succeeded?

Party pressure. The GOP establishment was more powerful in Buchanan's time and more willing to oppose overt white supremacy. Obviously, the Democrat Party opposed Wallace.

This year the GOP was both weaker institutionally and more willing to gamble due to the approaching collapse of their coalition.

That's what oligarchs are supposed to do -- keep people like Trump out. That's what they're for!

However, I do think racism is something that can change and be reduced over time. We know that increased interaction with people of color reduces prejudice, for example. I'm just not convinced that Trump's victory was the result of increased racism. I think it was revelatory of existing racism.

If racism is caused by primarily parenting being racist, why did a new generation of parents become more racist?

It was a flip response on my part. I'm not arguing that parenting is the primary cause of racism, I'm just noting that being raised in an environment that is accepting of racism is obviously a contributing factor.

The point about Japan is that they've taken a hyperconservative nationalist turn. It's always been a conservative country but Abe is new and different. They also haven't really experienced any kind of demographic change.

I mean, I think there's a reasonable argument that Japan has been a hyperconservative nationalist country for about two thousand years and just took a brief fifty year break from it when they got conquered by America.

 

[kirblar]

It's not that I don't think overt racism is the only racism but I've always thought it was worse? Nonwhites have more opportunity and equality now in relative terms even if in absolute terms it's still a very unequal and racist society. If the racism of the society isn't fluid shouldn't there be no gains of racial equality?

This is wrong. Straight up wrong. Things have. not. changed. in the past 3-4 decades since LBJ. White income and black income are still at the same relative value to each other.

Things are better now because they're better for everyone. Standard of living in this country has gone up ridiculously in the past 2-3 decades as a result of tech advancements and reduced prices of consumer goods. The bottom 20% today has a lifestyle more equivalent to the bottom 20-40% in the '80s because of this.

 

[royalan]

Same. Tons of nasty fucked up fantasies, but never anything about sexual assault.

That's the problem. You cannot put aside the fact that many Americans don't view touching as sexual assault, as fucked up as that is. You can't assume they're going to talk about it within the context of having done something wrong.

I know no such assumptions. Think back to overt sexual conversations you may have overheard in the locker-room (I was involved in sports in school, so spent lots of time there).

What was the ratio of described sexual actions/touching vs accounts of express permission given beforehand?

From middle-school to high school graduation, I couldn't tell you the number of times I overheard stories of sexual conquest that were thought of as consensual but that wouldn't pass the smell test if we REALLY unpacked them.

And somehow, I doubt this was just an LA thing.

 

[kirblar]

That's the problem. You cannot put aside the fact that many Americans don't view touching as sexual assault, as fucked up as that is. You can't assume they're going to talk about it within the context of having done something wrong.

I know no such assumptions. Think back to overt sexual conversations you may have overheard in the locker-room (I was involved in sports in school, so spent lots of time there).

What was the ratio of described sexual actions/touching vs accounts of express permission given beforehand?

From middle-school to high school graduation, I couldn't tell you the number of times I overheard stories of sexual conquest that were thought of as consensual but that wouldn't pass the smell test if we REALLY unpacked them.

And somehow, I doubt this was just an LA thing.

I can't recall anything ever getting to the point where someone would be saying "....because of the implication." It was always phrased as "man I'd like to do XYZ", consent was always implied.

 

[shinra-bansho]

The idea that someone not yelling faggot at the top of his lungs and throwing rope over a tree branch can't be racist or bigoted and potentially just as prejudiced as someone who does is actually a kind of dangerous idea towards continued progress really. It creates this faux post-racial narrative nonsense.

The average white man's amygdala will still light up more when he sees a black face.

 

[Ac30]

https://amp.pastemagazine.com/artic...s-progressive-millennial-running-for-con.html

Muh Democrats are too establishment and not left-wing enough so I'm running for the far-right party in a district that I think Democrats will never win despite Clinton winning it last year.

I point this out to her, and she sighs knowingly, explaining that while she appreciates what President Obama and his Democrats tried to do, she does not believe the party is able to change fast enough to deal with the issues facing her generation.

What the fuck is this nonsense. The GOP is going to change faster than the Dems? I can understand running Republican in a red district but it flipped this election cycle...

 

[Carpe Libertatem]

That's the problem. You cannot put aside the fact that many Americans don't view touching as sexual assault, as fucked up as that is. You can't assume they're going to talk about it within the context of having done something wrong.

I know no such assumptions. Think back to overt sexual conversations you may have overheard in the locker-room (I was involved in sports in school, so spent lots of time there).

What was the ratio of described sexual actions/touching vs accounts of express permission given beforehand?

From middle-school to high school graduation, I couldn't tell you the number of times I overheard stories of sexual conquest that were thought of as consensual but that wouldn't pass the smell test if we REALLY unpacked them.

And somehow, I doubt this was just an LA thing.

Yep, I think there were tons of Americans who didn't view Trump's comments as sexual assault

It's hard for us to imagine voting for someone who talked about sexual assault, but for a lot of people he never talked about that so what's the problem with voting for him?

 

[royalan]

I can't recall anything ever getting to the point where someone would be saying "....because of the implication." It was always phrased as "man I'd like to do XYZ", consent was always implied.

You mean you never overheard a story similar to, "Man, we just hanging out, and she leaned into me, and I just started ___________ her ___________..."?

Because I don't believe you. Either that, or I went to the most fucked-up serious of middle schools and high schools in one of the largest, most diverse cities in our country.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

What the fuck is this nonsense. The GOP is going to change faster than the Dems? I can understand running Republican in a red district but it flipped this election cycle...

How is it any easier to run as a Republican than a Democrat? Both sides will let you put your name on a ballot in their primary, the rest is up to you.