They should block him even if he did.
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PoliGAF 2017 |OT2| Well, maybe McMaster isn't a traitor.
- Thread starter ItWasMeantToBe19
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They should block him even if he did.
Bonen no Max'd
Banned
MT-AL, KS-3, and a SC district I think.
excelsiorlef
Member
The way the GOP are blocking themselves from getting work done should be Exhibit fucking A in the argument against a left wing version....
It's funny right now because these idiots are so evil they're stopping their only slightly less evil party members get their evil legislation through and thus ensuring that Obama's healthcare rules they all hate stay...
This is funny because the end result is you know not 20+ million people losing healthcare
But
If there was a left version coming trying to clean up a GOP mess it could result in the exact opposite: purity test fights that result in devastating and oppressive rules and laws staying in place while the left fights with itself...
Bigger evil stopping only slightly lesser evil from enacting evil is good.
Bigger Good stopping slightly lesser good from enacting good is bad.
No one should look at the "success" of the Tea Party/Freedom Caucus/Whatever and think yeah that's our model, yeah that's how we succeed.
It's funny right now because these idiots are so evil they're stopping their only slightly less evil party members get their evil legislation through and thus ensuring that Obama's healthcare rules they all hate stay...
This is funny because the end result is you know not 20+ million people losing healthcare
But
If there was a left version coming trying to clean up a GOP mess it could result in the exact opposite: purity test fights that result in devastating and oppressive rules and laws staying in place while the left fights with itself...
Bigger evil stopping only slightly lesser evil from enacting evil is good.
Bigger Good stopping slightly lesser good from enacting good is bad.
No one should look at the "success" of the Tea Party/Freedom Caucus/Whatever and think yeah that's our model, yeah that's how we succeed.
Ideally they vote for it and it fails in the House anyway. I don't think it can pass the Senate, but I don't want a radically different Senate bill heading into committee with it.
I just got a Dem email about that. There's zero chance they aren't filibustering here. Especially after that "Democrat party" non-slip of the tongue.
StopMakingSense
Member
CA 34th! I've got 23 candidates to choose from!
Y'know, because house republicans are the picture of maturity right now. That ad should have been a slam dunk!
I feel like this only really works in a 1-1 comparison, which I don't believe.
Democrats have a moral obligation to fight tooth and nail against what the Republican agenda has become.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
Right.
I mean, everyone's like "but they won power!!!" and so what? What are they getting out of their power? Having stupid people that don't understand lawmaking in Congress is very bad for your party.
I think the point would be that if/when Democrats regain power, they need to be productive and not allow perfect to be the enemy of good. Time and resources are limited, and progress is valuable even if incremental instead of reaching the endgame in one step.
We've done this shit to ourselves before, though. See: Jimmy Carter, Ted Kennedy/Nixon. Obama forced it through and even then it almost fell apart.
Yup. The moment you get in power w/ a DDD setup, you need bills ready to go, rapid-fire, with the votes already whipped.
We're doing that thing again where we're comparing Trump, his agenda, and the consequences of said agenda, to a normal Republican presidency.
Wut? I wasn't talking about Trump, I was talking about Dems and how we have herding cats issues once we're in power.
But Trump's looking like Carter 2.0 (in terms of legislative effectiveness), who was a very abnormal Democratic president because he couldn't get jack passed. Bush/Bush Jr./Reagan weren't like this.
Cesare Borgia
Banned
To be fair it's not like a President Rubio or Kasich would be able to pass a healthcare bill either.
Gosh, can you imagine the gasket Trump would blow if someone compared him to Carter to his face? He'd probably nuke Syria just to save his self-deluded machismo.
BoogieWoogie
Banned
Most stuff like this can usually be found at https://www.youtube.com/live.
Looks like it's still afoot: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqGUZYi1lIM
ShadowSwordmaster
Banned
This is too funny.
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
they know.
Vestal
Junior Member
People forget how difficult it was to pass the ACA to begin with. It took a historic election + Majority in the house and a Super Majority in the Senate along with over a year of bickering over it and tons of political capital down the drain to pass it.
Trump probably doesn't have a clue who Carter is or what he did (or didn't) do.
excelsiorlef
Member
Yes?
Of course nothing in my post said otherwise....
I'm saying there's been calls for a Green Tea Party.... We're seeing here what that does... Say for example Trump gov dropped the Federal Minimum wage to 2.50$ (this is probably a generally bad example but it's an easy one) and then the Dems take over with a Green tea party so now the Dems propose raising it to 12$ Federally but the Green Tea says no compromise it has to be 15$ or even 17 or 18$ and so instead of 12$ minimum nothing gets done and it's still 2.50$ in perpetuity
Fenderputty
Banned
Curious if it has to do with that article about how the healthcare overhaul will drag and cause a delay in his tax and budget ideas being implemented.
cartoon_soldier
Member
I suspect that if it is clear that AHCA will not pass the House lot of Rs will switch their votes after having first voted yes.
yeah, if there is around 30-45 firm no's on whip list, lotta profiles in courage gonna switch. i mean, the senate is basically flashing a big red warning sign, saying do not pass. bunch of idiots.
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
Why would we assume that just because the far right does something, it'll be exactly mirrored by the far left? How many times have you heard the far left complain that Bernie Sanders voted yes on obamacare because it's not single payer?
The far right creates a dysfunctional government because they hate the government, and don't know how to make good on their campaign promises because they outright lied their way into office with Obama hate and leftist rhetorical promises of the government not working well enough. Now they have to balance between the individual wackos with too much money that want no government, and a populace that wants a government that works for them (and only them).
That is very much not true for the far left. Some won't turn out for someone that doesn't push for single payer, but that's different from not turning out for someone that votes for the closest thing they could get to single payer.
excelsiorlef
Member
Because that call has been see the Tea Party? We need that.
The unflinching purity tests of the Tea Party are literally their biggest feature so how am I not to assume that that's what is being call for in a Green Tea version?
If you want something different don't point to the Tea Party and say that's what I want.
And I don't trust that a Green Tea Party in power wouldn't in fact reject say anything that isn't full on single payer...
Like again don't compare yourselves or your goals (and this is proverbial you here) to the fucked up weirdos in congress if you don't want to be you know compared to the fucked up weirdos in congress
balladofwindfishes
Member
Hey, just because were completely and totally wrong in all aspects of everything in November doesn't mean we can't be trusted to make predictions!
We're like, good n stuff at this.
excelsiorlef
Member
Also who cares I mean unless PoliGaf posters (and not the links and articles from professionals) are your only source of political news.... To which I would say umm why would you do that.
Many people in this thread were predicting a Trump primary win in August, 2015.
It's more of a condemnation of compentency in general. The republicans can't do things with majorities everywhere. There no hope they'll do anything.
If by people in this thread you mean legit political insiders like Josh Barro and David Frum, ok. A lot of people think the bill isn't passing the house, not just some of us in this thread.
Ryan doesn't have the votes, and R Senators like Cruz (who does NOT stick his head out) are already on record opposing it. This isn't a "prediction", it's a statement of fact. Barring some sort of radical change in the dynamics of the situation, it's going to fail.
shinra-bansho
Member
Lol. The "far left" not complaining about their patron saint doesn't seem like something particularly meaningful.
Cesare Borgia
Banned
Even Bush did a better job of selling his worst legislative failure (SS privatization, which the AARP vehemently opposed as well btw). I'm going to assume Trump is unable to sell the legislation during meetings because he doesn't understand the legislation, and is a dumbass. Most presidents are pretty good at selling things to congress on home court (the White House), especially when it's just a matter of convincing a few holdouts.
Now I will be fair to Trump: no one would be able to win over the Freedom Caucus on this because they want a full repeal. But I'd argue Trump is handling it worse than any modern republican president because he doesn't understand what he's selling.
cartoon_soldier
Member
Few came out just recently on twitter as No.
But like no defects in CA delegation at the moment. Big chance for Dems if all of them vote Yes.
Senate Confirmed Nos:
Rand
Collins
Mike Lee
Tom Cotton
Murkowski
whyamihere
Banned
Under 2 hours to see if the Greens can get that State House seat in PA.
Trump is threatening to primary people who oppose him on this. lololololol sure that'll work just great.
https://t.co/KfbYKqfJXu
More_Badass
Member
Is that a stupid move or effective move?
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
If "purity tests" are literally their biggest feature, why did tea party voters get so behind Trump when his health care statements were, by far, the farthest left in the primary?
37% approval rating says stupid move. Trump is obsessed with personal slights.
Because what motivated many wasn't really the economics, it was the white supremacism.
neurosisxeno
Member
Because he hates brown people and sexually assaults beautiful women.
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