metalslimer
Member
There is a difference between abandoning Trump and abandoning the party. That whole party needs to be burnt to the ground
I don't place any faith in their voters either
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PoliGAF 2017 |OT4| The leaks are coming from inside the white house
- Thread starter Spoiled Milk
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There is a difference between abandoning Trump and abandoning the party. That whole party needs to be burnt to the ground
I don't place any faith in their voters either
Didn't even get a push notification from the WaPo app, so nah.
skullmuffins
Banned
He hasn't tweeted a boom yet, so I hope there's something more coming.
Also:
Page is still a nut.
Spoiled Milk
Banned
Poor people don't vote and their base gets huge tax cuts. Libertarian fence voters satisfied etc. This is a good bill for Republicans.
StopMakingSense
Member
Yeah, that story is a prelude to 'Carter Page indicted on obstruction of justice, etc.'
10 hours with the Feds without a lawyer. Good job!
Thaedolus
Member
I'm keeping an we on Wittes' twitter and he hasn't said so...dunno
Wittes's stuff has always varied in severity. But yeah, could be something else, it is OPPO DROPPO HOUR now after all.
Macho Madness
Member
They like him despite this shit. People like my aunt who like Facebook posts that say dumb garbage like "This is what a President looks like!" on a picture of Trump with a big ol nasty shit in his diaper. They like him for other reasons than his policies. Every politician has a certain base because its their personality they like most, and Trump has his people.
balladofwindfishes
Member
This bill harms white middle class voters along with the elderly. This is absolutely under no terms a good bill for Republicans at all.
Passing this would easily be one of the worst political moves in the history of this country
Your aunt on Facebook isn't polling data.
Autodidact
Banned
Why am I not surprised that Crazy Eyes Carter Page, who voluntarily does interviews and makes himself look guilty as hell, would decline a lawyer when speaking to federal agents?
Aaron Strife
Banned
See, this is the hysteria I'm talking about. Care to elaborate on this?
So many people will die if this thing passes
BoogieWoogie
Banned
balladofwindfishes
Member
This wouldn't be the case at all. The party in power is always blamed
whyamihere
Banned
Unless you are a Hardcore Republican Who Never Has Thought Otherwise, it's pretty hard to blame any of what happens next on Obamacare if this passes.
benicillin
Banned
I think it will be blamed on the current government, actually. You can't be in control and then have people *not* blame you for things. It's why the pendulum swings so often and parties rarely stay in control for long.
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
I have yet to see anything over the past two years showing that we are still in a traditional political atmosphere where we can just carry over previous evidence as guarantee. Fox News has people believing that colluding with a foreign government is no big deal. They'd do the same to healthcare.
Box of Kittens
Banned
Saying something won't matter with Trump's base is meaningless. His base isn't a majority.
Aaron Strife
Banned
Oh man, McConnell is such a genius for making sure only 75% of the people who suffer under this bill do so next year as opposed to 100%.
Macho Madness
Member
By passing this bill, they own what happens as a result. Especially when the president is tweeting that Obamacare is dead, and they're selling this as a repeal and replace of it. Hard to do that and claim what comes next is because of Obamacare.
Autodidact
Banned
If this passes, I don't see how a veto-proof majority in the House wouldn't be in play.
StopMakingSense
Member
All you need to do is need to run photos of Trump's party for the House passing the bill. They took ownership of this so hard.
Can't see it. GOP would own. It's pretty easy to say with Obamacare you had health insurance, with Trumpcare you don't. People absorb simple talking points and that one is elementary as fuck.
benicillin
Banned
Not only that but Trump's been out there making sure everyone knows the Democrats aren't helping at all.
Autodidact
Banned
Fox News saying it =/= having people believe it.
Bonen no Max'd
Banned
breaking news: Democrats will not get 65% of the vote in the next election, clearly doomed for failure
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
You'd think so, but the democratic party has not been able to effectively campaign on republican policy in recent years.
Yet I'm already hearing this from people.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
More Strangers in Their Own Land thoughts (I think its a...pretty decent book overall, but I did find it illuminating in some ways)
I was struck by a very particular form of consciousness that I perceived, below even the level that the author maybe picked up on (or explicitly called out). One which could not admit that problems could be solvable. Pollution, unsafe jobs, poor social services, there were all things that just happened. It was unthinkable that you could do anything to fix them, because if you could do something to fix them it would be horrifying that we weren't.
So we can't really. Nothing to be done.
What I am saying here is: do not be surprised if a disturbing number of people manage to rationalize the AHCA as "what must be done". "Well if those people are going to lose insurance its because it was unsustainable for them to have it in the first place". Not all Republicans of course, if we're lucky not even most of them, but it would not surprise me if, heaven forbid the AHC takes effect, you still manage to find 20% of people who don't oppose it
I was struck by a very particular form of consciousness that I perceived, below even the level that the author maybe picked up on (or explicitly called out). One which could not admit that problems could be solvable. Pollution, unsafe jobs, poor social services, there were all things that just happened. It was unthinkable that you could do anything to fix them, because if you could do something to fix them it would be horrifying that we weren't.
So we can't really. Nothing to be done.
What I am saying here is: do not be surprised if a disturbing number of people manage to rationalize the AHCA as "what must be done". "Well if those people are going to lose insurance its because it was unsustainable for them to have it in the first place". Not all Republicans of course, if we're lucky not even most of them, but it would not surprise me if, heaven forbid the AHC takes effect, you still manage to find 20% of people who don't oppose it
Fenderputty
Banned
I'm now of the belief that the GOP figures they're fucked no matter what. If they don't pass a damn thing they get primaried by far right crazies. If they pass the thing the "moderates" are up for grabs in the house and senate.
If there's political turmoil and uncertainty regardless, might as well make sure they're more wealthy in the process.
Re: Russia, Fox News has been pushing the idea that there is no evidence for Russian collusion with the Trump campaign. That is THE talking point. If they're also talking about how it would be no big deal if there was collusion, I haven't seen that at all.
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
What? They did it all weekend.
BoogieWoogie
Banned
There's usually a one two punch with the NYT right?
Macho Madness
Member
That's partly why there's such a rush to get this done. They want to pass as much as they can just in case they lose big in 2018.
Box of Kittens
Banned
People said the same thing re: Fox News and Social Security back in 2005.
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
True. I think they all expect something related to Russia to happen around election time.
I get what you're saying, but let's not pretend the political atmosphere in this country is anywhere near what it was in 2005. Fox News is a much bigger influence now.
Aaron Strife
Banned
I know Thompson is already running again, but Democrats should try and get Ossoff and Parnell to run again in 2018.
Quist can go fuck off.
Box of Kittens
Banned
Guys, most of Hoover's voters are sticking with him. FDR is doomed.
VendettaRed07
Member
We had competent people running the ground game back in 2005
Well then. I haven't watched Fox News this weekend. I watch it muted at work constantly and the story is always "there's no evidence".
Like I said in my first post, it's possible to believe that Trump is an idiot while not believing in the collusion narrative.
But sure, "alt right". Lots of "alt right" up here in Toronto. We choose the most diverse city possible to keep us angry all the time
Box of Kittens
Banned
Keep in mind it's a lot easier to run against concrete, unpopular legislation as opposed to vague ideas like "repeal and replace."
Bonen no Max'd
Banned
this actually sort of reminds me of Hypernormalization and the idea that the failure of the left in the era of neoliberalism is its failure to present any sort of compelling alternative to the current status quo. After ceding power entirely to the right in the post-Reagan world it could not present itself as a compelling alternative, only a nicer version of the status quo. For all the (real) talk of the Southern Strategy killing the New Deal era, the social democratic left in the entire first world fell apart and parties that haven't adjusted to that are collapsing (PS, SPD, Labour until just now).
It's interesting how much of the vanguard of the new insurgent left really are just social democrats from before the total collapse of the social democratic left, Bernie isn't really all that different from a New Dealer just updated a bit for the 21st century, but the ideas are largely about returning to the past. Much as I love them, I think part of why the insurgent left struggles to take power is that it can't quite formulate its alternative other than in terms of a return to pre-1980s social democracy. It's something I think you've touched on indirectly when you criticize Sanders' trade stances.
whyamihere
Banned
Republicans will never suffer for this because nothing is good and Democrats will always lose!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
VendettaRed07
Member
And yet given the performance of the party in recent years I'm not convinced they'll be able to do that.
Seriously if we don't win the house, make major gains in governorships and at the very least maintain our senate position.. then heads have to roll. Everyone in every position of power has to be shot into the fucking sun.
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
Oh. My. Goodness.
Right, especially if they are feeling the effects of it immediately like it appears many will. I'm curious as to which type of employers they are thinking will just stop providing health insurance.
Box of Kittens
Banned
That is not what people were saying back then. In fact one of the reasons people said Democrats were doomed going into 2006 was the huge advantage in terms of data operation and ground game that Karl Rove had supposedly built. People were actually talking about the Democratic Party dying off entirely within a few years.
But this time is different, guys.
Autodidact
Banned
2006: landslide D win
2008: ditto
2010: Tea Party wave. You win.
2012: great D performance in Senate, would likely have regained House under old district lines
2014: R wave. You win.
2016: D gains in House and Senate
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