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PoliGAF 2017 |OT4| The leaks are coming from inside the white house

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By sniping I mean characterizing your opponent in such a light that the Republican candidate (Trump) will start using it in ads. If she's not leftist enough, by all means criticize her. But Sanders tarred Hillary with the paid speeches bullshit and that was just ridiculous, and gave Trump enough ammo for a lifetime.
I think it's unrealistic to expect people to not use an attack that will work. I don't expect Kamala herself to stick to a "only use 'not left enough' attacks Republicans can't use".

I also don't think it was really bullshit to attack her with that. It was more so inappropriate for someone who planned on running for elected office in the future to be doing. I don't think that was unfair territory for Bernie to go because it isn't like Hillary had an adequate defense for it.

In 08 Obama wouldn't have won if he was all concerned about not going after Hillary too much because if he loses he'll be a spoiler candidate. The 2020 primary is going to be a scorched earth primary and that's just the way it is. Anything we do to fight against that or try to avoid an ugly primary like 08 is only going to make it worse.

We're just going to have to embrace the mud slinging because it is inevitable.
 
If someone further left primaries Gabbard and takes her safe blue seat, we could almost be assured of never hearing from her again.
 
Gabbard's homophobic and Islamophobic backgrounds don't mesh with most of the base, unlike Trump's racism, sexism, and strongman-ism all overlapping with core GOP orthodoxy.

Gabbard really would only appeal to the "burn it to the ground" types on the left because contrarianism is all she has, unlike Sanders.



IA-Upper 41:
2016: 37.92% Clinton, 56.89% Trump
2012: 52.95% Obama, 45.06% Romney

Turnout was about 26,900 in 2016 and 27,900 in 2012

THANK YOU!!
 
I mean Hillary lost by like 60,000 votes but yes we will never get a women president ever in our lifetimes.

Electabiltiy arguments are part and parcel of discussing future candidates, and we just had an election that clearly demonstrated that being a women is harmful to becoming POTUS. This argument is going to go on for years now.
 
Misogyny is the biggest factor in this question. Obama took money from Wall Street too, but if a Woman does the same, all hell broke loose.

I disagree 100%. People didn't focus on Obama's flaws because he had other things going for him, from charisma to relatability. Hillary Clinton sounds speaks in carefully crafted Politician Talk, is not charismatic, is a poor public speaker, and is buried with decades worth of controversy/scandal (some deserved, some not). They're two entirely different situations.

Kamala Harris having Wall St ties wouldn't matter. Nor would people go insane over her ties to police/criminal justice system.Yea I'm sure a BLM supporter will attack her at some point, and we'll see more hit pieces on corporate ties over the next 3 years...but overall she'll be fine. Likewise is Gillibrand ran she wouldn't be destroyed by her corporate or Israel lobby ties. Both candidates will live and die on their talents - something Hillary Clinton hasn't done for quite some time.
 
Electabiltiy arguments are part and parcel of discussing future candidates, and we just had an election that clearly demonstrated that being a women is harmful to becoming POTUS. This argument is going to go on for years now.

Maybe but I'd also argue that Hillary uniquely sucked and it won't matter because a woman will still probably make it through the Dem primary so there's not a lot we can do about it.

I disagree 100%. People didn't focus on Obama's flaws because he had other things going for him, from charisma to relatability. Hillary Clinton sounds speaks in carefully crafted Politician Talk, is not charismatic, is a poor public speaker, and is buried with decades worth of controversy/scandal (some deserved, some not). They're two entirely different situations.

Kamala Harris having Wall St ties wouldn't matter. Nor would people go insane over her ties to police/criminal justice system.Yea I'm sure a BLM supporter will attack her at some point, and we'll see more hit pieces on corporate ties over the next 3 years...but overall she'll be fine. Likewise is Gillibrand ran she wouldn't be destroyed by her corporate or Israel lobby ties. Both candidates will live and die on their talents - something Hillary Clinton hasn't done for quite some time.

This.
 
19601307_1367691719953046_4586267461648828118_n.jpg


I hope Jeff Sessions hangs these punks.
 
The reason I asked about IA SD 41 was that I was watching a video that Politico did about a training camp for women running for office regardless of political affiliation in Iowa. One of the Dems, Jaime Allen, was running for IA SD 41 and she seemed genuine and impressive and I wanted to see what her chances of being competitive were. Turns out, a decent amount with those Obama numbers!

http://www.politico.com/video/2017/06/09/training-ground-women-entering-politics-in-2017-063344
 
Hey, everyone! Bored to tears, I wrote a quick summary of the WSJ and Lawfare articles. Some of you may go, "Who cares?" but it might help someone who wants to be apprised of the situation more quickly:

1. Peter Smith, a veteran Republican operative, assumes that Hillary's deleted emails have been obtained by hackers. Aware that releasing them could damage her campaign, he resolves to find them, assembles a team, and establishes a Delaware LLC called KLS Research (relevant later).

2. He and his team scour the internet, eventually arriving at the Dark Web, where several groups of hackers, some perhaps affiliated with the Russian government, claim to have the emails. Smith's team has no way to prove their veracity.

3. Smith enlists Matt Tait (aka @pwnallthethings), formerly of British GCHQ and a security analyst. Tait has previously commented on the DNC/Podesta hacks and assumes that Smith merely wants a consultation. After all, if Russia can hack the Democrats, they can hack the Republicans!

4. Smith tells Tait about his quest to find the emails, as well as about his questionable sources on the Dark Web. Tait, who never communicates with the source, grows increasingly uneasy, believing that Smith may have gotten involved with a genuine Russian hacking outfit. Smith seems nonchalant about the possibility of being involved with the Russians. Tait nopes the fuck out, for lack of a more elegant term, but before he goes, he sees a few documents and makes few observations...

5. Tait receives and keeps a recruitment document titled ”A Demonstrative Pedagogical Summary to be Developed and Released Prior to November 8, 2016," dated September 7. (Some research indicates that KLS Research, Smith's LLC, was established on September 2.) One section of this document lists members of Trump's campaign - among them Steve Bannon, Kellyanne Conway, and Michael Flynn - as being involved with Smith's efforts. The aforementioned claim not to know Smith, not to have spoken with him in years, or just give no comment, respectively. This section bears the heading ”Trump Campaign (in coordination to the extent permitted as an independent expenditure)." Tait reasons that Smith might just be a "name-dropper." After all, Tait's own name appears in the document, and he's had almost naught to do with Smith's mission.

6. The June 29 WSJ article, however, contains the following passage:

The operation Mr. Smith [who died on May 14, soon after his interview with the WSJ] described is consistent with information that has been examined by U.S. investigators probing Russian interference in the elections.

Those investigators have examined reports from intelligence agencies that describe Russian hackers discussing how to obtain emails from Mrs. Clinton's server and then transmit them to Mr. Flynn via an intermediary, according to U.S. officials with knowledge of the intelligence.

Though the WSJ cautions that this intermediary's identity has not been uncovered, the late Mr. Smith seems a likely candidate. Indeed, Eric York, who worked with Smith to find the emails, recalls Smith's saying, "I'm talking to Michael Flynn about this—if you find anything, can you let me know?" Emails exchanged among Smith's team further suggest an association with Flynn, Flynn's son, and Flynn's consulting company. A LinkedIn page supposedly listing the members of Smith's team also lists Flynn's company. Additionally, Tait, the "unnamed computer expert" in the June 29 article and on record in the June 30 article, recounts conversations in which Smith mentions his association with Flynn. Trump and co. never deny Flynn's involvement but say that Flynn may have worked with Smith as a "private individual," not on behalf of the campaign. If you'll recall, however, Smith's document lists Flynn under the "Trump campaign" section.

7. In his article, Tait draws some chilling conclusions:
My perception then was that the inclusion of Trump campaign officials on this document was not merely a name-dropping exercise. This document was about establishing a company to conduct opposition research on behalf of the campaign, but operating at a distance so as to avoid campaign reporting. Indeed, the document says as much in black and white.

The combination of Smith's deep knowledge of the inner workings of the campaign, this document naming him in the ”Trump campaign" group, and the multiple references to needing to avoid campaign reporting suggested to me that the group was formed with the blessing of the Trump campaign. In the Journal's story this evening, several of the individuals named in the document denied any connection to Smith, and it's certainly possible that he was a big name-dropper and never really represented anyone other than himself. If that's the case, Smith talked a very good game.

A narrative thus starts to take form: the Trump campaign join with Smith to "find" Hillary's deleted emails*, and they designate Flynn as the point of contact for this endeavor. Peter Smith, though intimately linked with the campaign and its members, establishes an "independent" corporation so he can claim distance and avoid campaign reporting laws. However, as we've seen, Smith's teammates and his own documentation contradict this claim. Smith and co. find a supposedly Russian source that claims to have the emails. If investigators can verify the link between Smith and Trump's campaign, we have collusion. (In fact, they may have already have verified as much; the public learns about these matters well after the fact.)

In the above summary, I've tried to include only the facts and the "reasonable inferences" the articles would have a reader draw. (They can't say everything directly, so they often hint heavily and lead us to the conclusions.) If I've made a factual error or ventured too far into conjecture, be a darling and let me know so I can amend the post.

Now, for one of my own theories:

*the Russian source and the quest to get the emails: I think Smith and Trump's campaign knew they'd be getting emails from Russians. They concocted the "search" and the Dark Web story so they could have plausible deniability: "We didn't know they came from Russia!" Of course, this theory requires that the Russians successfully obtained the deleted emails in the first place. But then, they probably would've released them. Now you see why I avoid making my own theories.

Send me to Mensch if too loony; criticize my writing if prose proves too ungainly.

EDIT: Fixed some minor factual flaws.
 

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
Why the hell is this voter information thing the one thing red states that almost certainly have the same horrible objectives are refusing to co-operate with the feds/this administration on? This response is honestly surprising to me
 
Why the hell is this voter information thing the one thing red states that almost certainly have the same horrible objectives are refusing to co-operate with the feds/this administration on? This response is honestly surprising to me

Americans believe in states' rights and see voting as a private matter, regardless of party.
 

Zereta

Member
Holy shit, has anyone read the two WSJ articles and the Lawfare article in one sitting?

I'll take a break from reading my book and write a summary of everything as I understood it. Some of you may go, "Who cares?" but it might help someone who wants to be apprised of the situation more quickly:

1. Peter Smith, a veteran Republican operative, assumes that Hillary's deleted emails have been obtained by hackers. Aware that releasing them could damage her campaign, he resolves to find them, assembles a team, and establishes a Delaware LLC called KLS Research (relevant later).

2. He and his team scour the internet, eventually arriving at the Dark Web, where several groups of hackers, some perhaps affiliated with the Russian government, claim to have the emails. Smith's team gets a copy of the emails but has no way to prove their veracity.

3. Smith enlists Matt Tait (aka @pwnallthethings), formerly of British GCHQ and a security analyst. Tait has previously commented on the DNC/Podesta hacks and assumes that Smith merely wants a consultation. After all, if Russia can hack the Democrats, they can hack the Republicans!

4. Smith tells Tait about his quest to find the emails, as well as his questionable sources on the Dark Web. Tait, who never communicates with the source, grows increasingly uneasy, believing that Smith may have gotten involved with a genuine Russian hacking outfit. Smith seems nonchalant about the possibility of being involved with the Russians. Tait nopes the fuck out, for lack of a more elegant term, but before he goes, he sees a few documents and makes few observations...

5. Tait sees a recruitment document titled “A Demonstrative Pedagogical Summary to be Developed and Released Prior to November 8, 2016,” dated September 7. (Some research indicates that KLS Research, Smith's LLC, was established on September 2.) One section of this document lists members of Trump's campaign - among them Steve Bannon, Kellyanne Conway, and Michael Flynn - as being involved with Smith's efforts. The aforementioned claim not to know Smith, not to have spoken with him in years, or just give no comment, respectively. This section bears the heading “Trump Campaign (in coordination to the extent permitted as an independent expenditure)." Tait reasons that Smith might just be a "name-dropper." After all, Tait's own name appears in the document, and he's had almost naught to do with Smith's mission. Tait's opinion later changes...

6. ...when he reads the June 29 WSJ article, which contains the following passage:


Though the WSJ cautions that this intermediary's identity has not been uncovered, the late Mr. Smith seems a likely candidate. Indeed, Eric York, who worked with Smith to find the emails, recalls Smith's saying, "I’m talking to Michael Flynn about this—if you find anything, can you let me know?" Emails exchanged among Smith's team further suggest an association with Flynn, Flynn's son, and Flynn's consulting company. A LinkedIn page supposedly listing the members of Smith's team also lists Flynn's company. Trump and co. never deny Flynn's involvement but say that Flynn may have worked with Smith as a "private individual," not on behalf of the campaign. If you'll recall, however, Smith's document lists Flynn under the "Trump campaign" section.

7. Tait then begins to draw some chilling conclusions:

A narrative thus starts to take form: the Trump campaign join with Smith Hillary's deleted emails*, and they designate Flynn as the point of contact for this endeavor. Peter Smith, though intimately linked with the campaign and its members, establishes an "independent" corporation so he can claim distance and avoid campaign reporting laws. However, as we've seen, Smith's teammates and his own documentation contradict this claim. Smith and co. obtain emails from a supposedly Russian source* but for some reason never release them (perhaps unable to authenticate, etc.). If investigators can verify the link between Smith and Trump's campaign, we have collusion. (In fact, they may have already have verified as much; the public learns about these matters well after the fact.)

In the above summary, I've tried to include only the facts and the "reasonable inferences" the articles would have a reader draw. (They can't say everything directly, so they often hint heavily and lead us to the conclusions.) If I've made a factual error or ventured too far into conjecture, be a darling and let me know so I can amend the post.

Now, for one of my own theories:

*the Russian source and the quest to get the emails: I think Smith and Trump's campaign knew they'd be getting emails from Russians. They concocted the "search" and the Dark Web story so they could have plausible deniability: "We didn't know they came from Russia!"

Send me to Mensch if too loony; criticize my writing if prose proves too ungainly.

Your theory aside, it is becoming inreasingly clear that there might have been some effort to collude with Russians beyond the Christopher Steele dossier. It is interesting that elements of that dossier havent been talked about since but we're getting insight into a whole other dimension.

The dossier says, essentially, that the Kremlin cultivated Turmp. Its looking more and more like Trump campaign actively sought out Russian aid and developed a relationship.

More likely, its some combination of the two but the significance of the two WSJ stories and the Lawfare story is that Republicans are losing the smokescreen they had that the Steele Dossier is unreliable. Here's this whole other collusion angle that, while decidely piss-less, is still terrifying.

And harder to wave aside.

Also: It's by the WSJ, not some liberal leftist propaganda unit like the NYT.
 
Why the hell is this voter information thing the one thing red states that almost certainly have the same horrible objectives are refusing to co-operate with the feds/this administration on? This response is honestly surprising to me
The number of republicans that believe in the concepts of small govt and personal liberty is still statistically significant? I know ots bizarre to see GOP oficals choose country over party but it seems to have happened here.
 

Emerson

May contain jokes =>
Local and national politics are different. Local Republican politicians are much more likely to take offense at Washington kicking down their door demanding they turn over private data.
 

Teggy

Member
The United States denied travel visas for six teenage girls from Afghanistan looking to attend an international robotics competition in Washington, D.C this month.

The all-girl team from Herat, a city in western Afghanistan, applied for a one-week travel visa to attend the FIRST Global Challenge in mid-July. To interview for their visas, they had to travel about 500 miles to the U.S. embassy in Kabul. They made that trek a second time after their first application was rejected, but they were rejected yet again.

Roya Mahboob, who founded the Citadel software company in Afghanistan and organized the team of girls, told Forbes that when the team heard their visa applications were rejected again, they cried all day.

https://thinkprogress.org/afghan-girls-rejected-visa-robotics-competition-5aeaf80baba6
 

Suikoguy

I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
If someone further left primaries Gabbard and takes her safe blue seat, we could almost be assured of never hearing from her again.

Sounds good, Hawaii deserves better to be honest.
I wonder if anyone local has some aspirations?
 
Sounds good, Hawaii deserves better to be honest.
I wonder if anyone local has some aspirations?

Well, this country loves electing celebrities, and those two unemployed Hawaii Five-0 actors need a gig...

Jk, but really, Hollywood needs to stop acting liberal yet being such a racist-ass place. The "bu-bu-but the audiences" excuse doesn't justify an abandonment of progressive values.
 
The reason I asked about IA SD 41 was that I was watching a video that Politico did about a training camp for women running for office regardless of political affiliation in Iowa. One of the Dems, Jaime Allen, was running for IA SD 41 and she seemed genuine and impressive and I wanted to see what her chances of being competitive were. Turns out, a decent amount with those Obama numbers!

http://www.politico.com/video/2017/06/09/training-ground-women-entering-politics-in-2017-063344
Oh I think I remember hearing about this, wasn't Cheri Bustos involved?
 
Eh I feel like the last 8 years are good examples of "the only good Republican is one who just lost an election." Instead of endorsing Republicans who throw you an economic bone (and doing so is what gets social justice folks to lose trust in you) just endorse the Democrat who's likely to vote for more than just economic programs intended for white people.

That's not to say you shouldn't secretly hope better Republicans primary worse ones. But the message should be that every Republican is scum, some are just scummier than others. Don't actually support any of them.
well I mean Republicans are scum because of the policies they support, if they supported good policies then they wouldn't necessarily be scum

if a Republican ran on a leftist agenda I'd vote for them, I just know that'll never happen. Our Revolution will endorse any Republican that supports Medicare for All, which will never happen.
 

Mac_Lane

Member
So Lewandowski just called Trump the Hemingway of Twitter.

This level of blatant stupidity, I just can't...

I wish you luck America, three and a half years more of this... Ugh.
 

Ogodei

Member
Well the plausible deniability was so they wouldn't get sanctioned, and they got sanctioned anyway so figure they might as well drop the charade.
 
well I mean Republicans are scum because of the policies they support, if they supported good policies then they wouldn't necessarily be scum

if a Republican ran on a leftist agenda I'd vote for them, I just know that'll never happen. Our Revolution will endorse any Republican that supports Medicare for All, which will never happen.

Yeah but my point is that's just one policy, and it's one that doesn't exclude the possibility of other heinous positions.

Our Revolution is saying here that they'd openly support a republican who just flipped on that one issue. That's not okay in my book.
 
Yeah but my point is that's just one policy, and it's one that doesn't exclude the possibility of other heinous positions.

Our Revolution is saying here that they'd openly support a republican who just flipped on that one issue. That's not okay in my book.
This just seems silly to me, it's not like Steve King is going to get the nod once he comes out for Medicare For All, they're just saying they're not an arm of the Democratic party and that the goal is to get supporters of left wing policy elected, not Democrats.
 

Crocodile

Member
This just seems silly to me, it's not like Steve King is going to get the nod once he comes out for Medicare For All, they're just saying they're not an arm of the Democratic party and that the goal is to get supporters of left wing policy elected, not Democrats.

Who is this mythical Republican that:
-advocates for enough left-wing policies that they are palatable to "Our Revolution"
-advocates for few enough right-wing policies to be palatable to the average Democratic voter

That position only makes sense in districts or states where a Democrat has literally no chance of winning so you might as well get the least bad Republican in there. Outside those sorts of locations this just seems like a "screw the Democratic party, fuck unity" message.
 

PantherLotus

Professional Schmuck
Great summary, Auto. Wanted to pick this out because it caught my eye:

4. Smith tells Tait about his quest to find the emails, as well as his questionable sources on the Dark Web. Tait, who never communicates with the source, grows increasingly uneasy, believing that Smith may have gotten involved with a genuine Russian hacking outfit. Smith seems nonchalant about the possibility of being involved with the Russians. Tait nopes the fuck out, for lack of a more elegant term, but before he goes, he sees a few documents and makes few observations...

This passage fits 'unintentionally getting sucked into a treasonous path without knowing it' to a T.

HMNMMMMMM
 

Suikoguy

I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
Yeah but my point is that's just one policy, and it's one that doesn't exclude the possibility of other heinous positions.

Our Revolution is saying here that they'd openly support a republican who just flipped on that one issue. That's not okay in my book.

It's really a case by case issue. Is it a significantly Red district, with a Republican who is moderate on several issues versus another Republican who is moderate on several issues AND for Medicare For All?
But, picking purely from the perspective of a single issue is a dangerous road to go down. It really needs to be discouraged.

So Lewandowski just called Trump the Hemingway of Twitter.

This level of blatant stupidity, I just can't...

I wish you luck America, three and a half years more of this... Ugh.

Mueller is not adding Andrew Goldstein to the team if there is nothing there, to me that indicates there are several avenues worth (or being) investigated.
I'm leaning more and more towards thinking Republicans are going to be left with no choice but to impeach before midterms, to stave off catastrophic losses to significant losses. Even if Trump is not directly involved (which is also looking more and more unlikely), the number of people, most of which Trump handpicked, being implicated shows grievously bad judgement, and will very likely result in a revolt within the party if he does not resign. Trump has zero ability to deal with this from a public relations or political angle, which will further damage him. It's easy to ignore the web of events and people involved being constructed by the media, as an elected republican. But I think even for Republicans there are limits, even if it may seem unlikely now. I think there will reach a point where the rats jump off the ship and try to save their own ass, and reelection chances in any district within 12 or so percentage points (and maybe, just maybe, a couple of people with a remaining backbone and principles).

My bosses have all been fine in all of the political stuff I've worked on, so idk.

What people find as "fine" will vary.
I'd like to hear some specific examples of what they find a problem.
 
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