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PoliGAF 2017 |OT4| The leaks are coming from inside the white house
- Thread starter Spoiled Milk
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RustyNails
Member
Well some republicans did blame Bill Clinton for the 2008 chaos. It will be that talking point on steroids. Completely ignoring the 8 years of W.
IggyChooChoo
Member
Anecdotally, all the conservatives on my fb feed who used to post about politics have in the past few months shifted completely to non-political subjects.
ShadowSwordmaster
Banned
#GOPLOGIC
Joe Shlabotnik
Banned
This is why it's silly to get too frustrated over Trump supporters not "turning" on the administration yet. They're never going to flip; they'll just disengage and not vote.
BoogieWoogie
Banned
Ok so the new health care plan gets rid of tax cuts for the wealthy and insurance companies hate it.....who the fuck is this for?
It's not like there's time for rewrites now. Gotta pass something.
Same here. People who were popping shit after the election been MIA.
So the Pentagon wants to split off US Cyber Command from the NSA and ... Mike Rogers could be on his way out?
https://apnews.com/23fdab1570ae4846ae4d56bf696bcc94/US-finalizing-plans-to-revamp-cyber-command
Deuce Deuce
Member
There's certainly an argument to be made that the Commodity Futures Modern Act and repeal of Glass-Steagall under Clinton *possibly* contributed the financial meltdown.
During last year's primaries, Hillary oddly tried to pin the CFMA on Sanders during one of their debates.
Edit:
Wrote the wrong law. It was Glass-Steagall
ShadowSwordmaster
Banned
That is not good.
The American conservative's stab-in-the-back myth for any type of crisis is government intervention. Republicans will bend over backward to blame legislation for problems caused by industrialists and speculators, because this allows them to strip away regulation and thus cause further crises.
"Crony capitalism" is the highest stage of this mythology, because it allows conservatives to pretend that problems directly related to capitalism, like wage slavery or environmental destruction or the concentration of wealth in increasingly few hands, are in fact the work of conniving bureaucrats who muddle an otherwise flawless profit-based economic system.
"Crony capitalism" is the highest stage of this mythology, because it allows conservatives to pretend that problems directly related to capitalism, like wage slavery or environmental destruction or the concentration of wealth in increasingly few hands, are in fact the work of conniving bureaucrats who muddle an otherwise flawless profit-based economic system.
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
Actually I disagree, we are too reactionary when it comes to cyber security. Splitting cybercommand to be its own agency could be the first step in stopping attacks at the source.
At the same time they do need to have proper legal boundaries to act and not breach privacy.
ShadowSwordmaster
Banned
True. But, Mike Rogers being replaced by a civilian is what is worrying me right now.
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
On principle I'd honestly prefer civilian control of these agencies, but I agree I don't trust this admin to put up anyone of integrity.
ShadowSwordmaster
Banned
Which is the reason for the hesitation on my end. This could go any number of ways from this admin. I find it interesting that we are getting this new agency and the new branch of the military from this admin.
Regulatory capture by industry to deliberately use the government to mandate demand and dissuade competition is a real thing though.
It's obviously not the source of problems caused by a lack of environmental regulations or regressive taxation, but it's absolutely something to be concerned about and aware of. (see: the post-Trump FCC changes w/ net neutrality for a blatant example)
It's really, really important to distringuish between the BS GOP propaganda take on this and the public choice one they're warping in order to turn it into a BS talking point. There was a Vox article blowing up a really awful book that actively conflated the two yesterday: https://www.vox.com/the-big-idea/20...s-james-buchanan-intellectual-history-maclean
TheLaughingStock
Member
The only way the Trump administration could be wrong is if the story that robots and automation will be unlike anything we've ever seen is fake news. Trump is not changing immigration policy so we won't have dramatically more working aged people over the course of the projection.
Don't have Oreilly and Ailes pulling it rightward to "balance" them out anymore.
I noticed that too. They haven't blocked me, either (well, one of them did, but he wasn't a friend of mine anyway, mutual friends). The level of MAGA! shitposting just seemed to drop like a stone after March or so.
Unless all of these people are setting a new class of friends to filter by political posts.
Lord he is predictable.
Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump
Stock Market at new all-time high! Working on new trade deals that will be great for U.S. and its workers!
12:21 PM · Jul 15, 2017
At this point, I hope Trump lives long enough to see the curve where his current supporters start looking back badly on him once he's no longer president for a few years.
People have already turned around on W despite his presidency being such a failure.
So long as Trump has a letter next to his name certain groups will always want to write history in a positive way.
Aaron Strife
Banned
I'd say if Trump ends up resigning or being impeached, his legacy will be pretty irredeemable.
Not to say people won't try but just look at Nixon.
Not to say people won't try but just look at Nixon.
Smiles and Cries
Member
this VOX video is pretty good
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HO2c_2XAXMw
I've been watch Fox News a little it is like they live in a different universe
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCDSqgs8qNo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HO2c_2XAXMw
I've been watch Fox News a little it is like they live in a different universe
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCDSqgs8qNo
I mean people still talk about Nixon positively.
The hilarious thing about Watergate was he was doing a good enough job that he didn't need to spy on democrats.
I mean the EPA, Moon landings, Paris Peace Accords, title 9, lowered voting age from 21 to 18, attacking organized crime, opening up relations with the Chinese.
He has legitimate accomplishments that you can't just wipe out.
Aaron Strife
Banned
I feel the general consensus around Nixon is forever tainted by Watergate, even though he's probably been the "best" Republican president since Eisenhower.
Cesare Borgia
Banned
At least Nixon was intelligent and had the ability to morph into an interesting semi historian/great interview subject post presidency. He also waited years before coming out the woodworks. He gave people time to move on. Bush did the same thing, essentially.
If Trump is removed from office he'll likely spend years claiming he was treated very very badly, raising conspiracies, denigrating the office, and generally being his toxic self. I'm sure there will always be a portion of the country that loves him, he'll be a mainstay in right wing media...but he won't recover like Nixon or Bush.
The EPA of which Trump is destroying lol
How can you say this given Vietnam? Is the bar that low for Rs?
Autodidact
Banned
Yes, because we always have to have #bothsides.
You also have to separate domestic policy from foreign policy, I think. Domestically, I'd rate LBJ as one of our best presidents, but we know how his foreign policy went.
And reading OT, how did people not know about the far-left's anti-Semitism? The loony lefties in my family have been using the tired "not anti-Semitic just anti-ZIONIST" excuse for years.
To be fair, this isn't any different than if he stays or had even lost.
Abinash117
Member
That depends on how much Trump damages the Republican Party and what he is charged with if he ever will be. If he is removed from office because of his collusion with Russia, they'll act he never existed, use the excuse he was never a real Republican after awhile, or he was an 'anomaly'. Supporting Trump after his removal will not be that beneficial as he would be the very first president to be successfully removed in history. No matter what; that is a extremely terrible image to be associated with the party.
Mainstream Republican would act he never existed, but the far right and more fringe will at least focus on what they consider positive aspects of him which him being some sort of firebrand. His anti-media, anti-PC, anti-establishment, illiberal and anti-immigration stances is going to look favorably by those groups, especially if liberalism and and a more diverse US takes hold( which will when it comes to diversity) in the future. It won't be about him achieving his goals, but it'll be about him being the to take on the people they hate. Whatever negative outcome is for Trump; it looks increasingly likely that the GOP will still evoke Reagan for the foreseeable future.
Greigor The Fellhand
Member
no news on the 8th yet?
Autodidact
Banned
The initial Don Jr. story dropped last Saturday...
Bonen no Max'd
Banned
in terms of bodycounts maybe
Aaron Strife
Banned
In a pool that contains Dubya and Reagan? You bet.
You could make the argument that HW was a better president though, but he's got one-termer stink on him. (I'm not speaking for myself, more just what I've perceived in general discussion about past presidents)
TBH I don't think we'll ever get an accurate reflection on past presidents until everyone who voted for them dies. A diehard supporter will never admit that their president screwed the pooch because then they'd be admitting something about themselves.
Third Strike
Member
Bush hasn't done anything since he left office. If Trump loses in 2020, he'll no doubt continue his usual charades on Twitter. That'll look great for his reputation, especially if any investigations continue after he leaves office.
Aaron Strife
Banned
Hopefully Schneiderman puts him in irons.
Eh. You don't really see very many proud Bush II supporters, such that they'd volunteer that information.
Why the hell is Sandoval talking out of both sides of his ass?
https://twitter.com/TheNVIndy/status/886272245429002241
https://twitter.com/Taniel/status/886279316321054721
https://twitter.com/TheNVIndy/status/886272245429002241
https://twitter.com/Taniel/status/886279316321054721
Snowman Prophet of Doom
Member
As of right now, though, I couldn't really argue Trump as being worse than Bush. If he WERE removed from office, my guess would be that history would view him as someone who pushed the Republican party to the deplorable right, rhetorically, administrated atrociously (albeit deliberately so, per Bannon's statements), but governed similarly to how other Republicans who were running would have, in terms of the kinds of stuff he signed. (This is setting aside the high probability that he will be an important part of the historical chapters on why America stopped being the lone global superpower and why China and the EU became coequal or superior to it.)
Edit: Vietnam will always be Johnson's L to hold, not Nixon's, because Johnson should have known better. Nixon was a capable governor but is arguably the most deleterious force to hit the government in the latter half of the 20th Century, given he not only gifted us the "Reagan Revolution" but supercharged the concentration of power in the Executive branch that has made Trump so damned dangerous.
Autodidact
Banned
HW damn sure had one of the most impressive resumes of recent presidents: WWII veteran, US representative, ambassador, CIA director, vice president.
Third Strike
Member
I think Reagan will still be the GOP god after Trump leaves office. He's the only modern Republican that lasted a full two terms, mostly scandal free, and left with a good reputation (at least among Republicans).
SatelliteOfLove
Member
Every potentially smart or even mundane beaurocratic change in this administration is just anxiety distilled.
They have Putin Cockholsters regurgitating alt-right/Kremlin spin instead.
With all due respect to W, the only reason he got a reputation refurb so quickly is due TO Trump. You never really saw any actual whistful discussion of his administration till 2016, not the least of reasons being the NeoCon movement he killed are and remain out of power on the Right.
I lived through Reagan and he was at least internationally considered to be a terrifying destructive idiot and criminal. The fear of nuclear war spiked because of his behaviors and cabinet activities. The Cold War ended because of the combination of the Russian economic situation and the sheer luck of Gorbachev somehow winnowing through the kremlin old guard.
Reagan aggression certainly lubricated the whole thing but it was unplanned brinksmanship that sort of worked out but could just as easily have triggered disaster.
After he left office, plainly with significant mental and geriatric issues, his legacy was recreated from scratch with campaigning that has probably cost at least tens of millions of dollars. HW was the last republican with a halfway decent objective international reputation.
The fuck is he doing?
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