• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

PoliGAF 2017 |OT4| The leaks are coming from inside the white house

Status
Not open for further replies.
McConnell is going to try to one last time. Full repeal and delay. Won't work, which, he knows.

https://twitter.com/toddzwillich/status/887141966743470081

So the vote will (attempt to) provide political cover for the conservatives who can say they voted for repealing Obamacare. Same for the moderates who can say they voted against killing Medicaid expansion.

Trifecta: Proves to the orange turd that repeal now, replace later isn't viable.
 

benjipwns

Banned
benji, how does it feel to be vindicated re: Terry McAuliffe possibly running for president?

(at least I think that was you who made those jokes)
I also told people they were getting Tim Kaine or Tom Vilsack for VP in 2015.

I also told people "white backlash against immigrants/foreigners 'hurting' the economy" was going to decide the 2016 GOP primaries and thus potentially the election in 2014/3. Then every single GOPer tacked towards Jeb!/Rubio and left Trump the whole one side of the argument to rumble up collecting what used to be the Perot voters/Reagan Democrats/Wallace "law and order" Democrats/etc. along with the Buchanan Right. Couldn't make them hide with "TERRORISM!" anymore.

Nobody likes my predictions.

Is this stuff trustworthy? I remember tons of weird, sordid fiction written about the Clintons, like that Ed Klein guy:
beats me:
Devil's Bargain: Steve Bannon, Donald Trump and the Storming of the Presidency by Joshua Green, a senior national correspondent for Bloomberg Businessweek

Book reveals Trump did not think of and was 'indifferent' to signature policy to build a wall until he unveiled it in Iowa in January 2015 and crowd 'went nuts'
 

Drkirby

Corporate Apologist
Here I was thinking the Senate bill was somehow revived from the dead. Nope, was just being propped up by Mitchy boy.

Can the Republicans at least start pretending they can legislate? While I'm a fan of lame duck Donald, I would really like some signal that one of our two major parties isn't completely gone off the deep end. Is that Tuesday Group Caucus of theres just for show?
 

teiresias

Member
So the vote will (attempt to) provide political cover for the conservatives who can say they voted for repealing Obamacare. Same for the moderates who can say they voted against killing Medicaid expansion.

Trifecta: Proves to the orange turd that repeal now, replace later isn't viable.

Except I'm sure all those moderates voted for it back in 2015 when it would be vetoed and have no good reason to say why they're voting against it now without looking like petty fools.
 
Except I'm sure all those moderates voted for it back in 2015 when it would be vetoed and have no good reason to say why they're voting against it now without looking like petty fools.

"....but it's for real now! That's why."

Edit: Got a laugh out of this...

https://mobile.twitter.com/jaxalemany/status/887144137459421185

Jackie Alemany @JaxAlemany

Trump WH still struggles w conference calls. V weird OH comment from unmuted caller during Iran briefing: "My inflatable doll is a lesbian."
 

sangreal

Member
"....but it's for real now! That's why."

yeah, politico just ran a story on exactly that this morning

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/07/17/obamacare-repeal-republicans-white-house-240607

But when GOP leaders in January pitched the idea — which involved repealing the law and figuring out a replacement later — they were met with stern resistance from lawmakers worried about constituents who had gained insurance through the 2010 law and who could lose coverage if it were suddenly revoked.

”Health care looks much easier when you're at the talking point level," said Larry Leavitt, a senior vice president at the nonpartisan Kaiser Family Foundation and senior health policy adviser during the Clinton administration. ”It always gets more difficult as you start filling in the details."

This was the first hint of real trouble for the Republican health care efforts. Passing a bill they knew would be vetoed under Obama was easy; passing one that would thrust their constituents into uncertainty was riskier.

”When you're six years into a program, to change it when people are relying on it, there's a fear that it may affect their own policies or their own families," said Sen. Jeff Flake (R-Ariz.). ”This is tough; this is complex. We knew it would be, but it's really tough."
 

sangreal

Member
I get no end of joy from the delightfully ignorant way that Republicans talk about this process like it would be a piece of cake.

"Who knew passing a bill that completely re-works 1/6 of the economy with a thousand different moving parts would be so gosh-darned hard?"

It extends to everything, not just healthcare. They bought their own bullshit that Obama enacted all of his policies through casual fiats on a whim

Politico had an article on that too

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/04/28/trumps-executive-orders-are-mostly-theater-215081

After Trump was elected, many Republicans changed their tune. They assumed he could swiftly reverse much of what Obama did, by reversing Obama's executive orders with orders of his own, and many pundits assumed that, too.

But it wasn't true that Obama did most of his governing by fiat, which is why Trump hasn't been able to reverse most of Obama's policies by fiat. Obama's health care and Wall Street reforms are laws enacted by Congress, and the Republican-controlled Congress has not managed to pass new laws to replace them. Obama's Clean Power Plan limiting carbon emissions was a rule enacted by the Environmental Protection Agency, so Trump's EPA will have to go through a new rule-making process to rescind or even revise it, a process cluttered with legal, scientific, and bureaucratic obstacles.

It's much harder to eliminate federal rules than it is to order reviews of federal policies, and it's even harder for the public to tell which is happening from a White House photo op. Trump did sign one order calling for a review of a specific Obama wetlands rule, trashing it at the ceremony as ”a very destructive and horrible rule." But rules are rules, so he could not simply scrap it, even though the Washington Examiner reported: ”Trump Executive Order Scraps EPA Water Rule."
 
If all Trump cares about is winning and giving people healthcare he should just announce an Obamacare repair effort and get 3 Republican senators on board. Mount a propaganda campaign against house Republicans and demand action on healthcare.

There's no way though that he'd get enough Republicans in the house on board. So, uh

Lol
 

sangreal

Member
If all Trump cares about is winning and giving people healthcare he should just announce an Obamacare repair effort and get 3 Republican senators on board. Mount a propaganda campaign against house Republicans and demand action on healthcare.

There's no way though that he'd get enough Republicans in the house on board. So, uh

Lol

both the house and Senate leadership have made it clear they will do nearly anything Trump asks them to. They would put up a repair bill if he wanted it, but he ran on repeal and can't accept losing. Look at him pretending he didn't support this failed bill already
 
Feels like a good night to celebrate.

DEi7jDUUMAAgqFL.png:large
 
I also told people they were getting Tim Kaine or Tom Vilsack for VP in 2015.

I also told people "white backlash against immigrants/foreigners 'hurting' the economy" was going to decide the 2016 GOP primaries and thus potentially the election in 2014/3. Then every single GOPer tacked towards Jeb!/Rubio and left Trump the whole one side of the argument to rumble up collecting what used to be the Perot voters/Reagan Democrats/Wallace "law and order" Democrats/etc. along with the Buchanan Right. Couldn't make them hide with "TERRORISM!" anymore.

Nobody likes my predictions.


beats me:

Is our 2020 candidate going to be Harris, Gillibrand, Franken, Gabbard, Zuckerberg, or a sock monkey with "Medicare for All" sewn into the front?

Edit: Also, I don't know why, but I feel like you are the best person to ask if you are aware any kind of comprehensive summation of the ways in which the politics and economics of the Star Trek universe do not make any sense. This is manifestly true to me, but I've not the economics nor political science background to construct such a thing myself.
 
TBH I have no problem with Biden ideologically, I just want to recognize the hypocrisy from people who attacked Clinton for being too centrist.

Oh and BCRA is dead lol. I fucking knew McConnell telling senators that the Medicaid cuts wouldn't really happen would sink this ship. How does someone with such a reputation for being this brilliant tactician end up being this stupid?
 

Barzul

Member
Okay so which senators exactly vote against full repeal? Collins, Heller and who else? I worry moderates might cave if this bill is blitzed through.
 
Okay so which senators exactly vote against full repeal? Collins, Heller and who else? I worry moderates might cave if this bill is blitzed through.
Probably Murkowski, Capito.

That is a fear I have as well, but remember McCain can't vote either so if they lose two it's game over. Assuming the vote is still this week.
 
TBH I have no problem with Biden ideologically, I just want to recognize the hypocrisy from people who attacked Clinton for being too centrist.

Oh and BCRA is dead lol

No, 1972-2008 Biden might have been too centrist, but Uncle Joe Cool makes dank memes and looks like you could have a beer with him.

...And he looks like the young, white, heterosexual men who constitute much of the far left. Again, "she's too centrist" = "she doesn't have a penis and I'm intimidated."

McCaskill should just replay that ad - no additional work necessary.
 
It extends to everything, not just healthcare. They bought their own bullshit that Obama enacted all of his policies through casual fiats on a whim

Politico had an article on that too

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/04/28/trumps-executive-orders-are-mostly-theater-215081
I remember a liberal friend of mine giving Trump credit early on for at least sticking true to his promises on the basis of the executive orders. Look, he repealed Obamacare, just like he said he would!

Allowing me to dust off my catch phrase, "no one knows how any of this fucking shit works."
 

FyreWulff

Member
TBH I have no problem with Biden ideologically, I just want to recognize the hypocrisy from people who attacked Clinton for being too centrist.

Oh and BCRA is dead lol. I fucking knew McConnell telling senators that the Medicaid cuts wouldn't really happen would sink this ship. How does someone with such a reputation for being this brilliant tactician end up being this stupid?

when Boehner bounced because he didn't want to deal with the teaper idiots that should have been McConnel's cue to exit as well
 
I don't think McConnell is going through with a clean repeal with any delusion that it'll pass. It was one of the first ideas they had and they scrapped it because no one was into it.
 
No, 1972-2008 Biden might have been too centrist, but Uncle Joe Cool makes dank memes and looks like you could have a beer with him.

...And he looks like the young, white, heterosexual men who constitute much of the far left. Again, "she's too centrist" = "she doesn't have a penis and I'm intimidated."

McCaskill should just replay that ad - no additional work necessary.
please show me the socialist left that wants Biden
 
when Boehner bounced because he didn't want to deal with the teaper idiots that should have been McConnel's cue to exit as well
Maybe it's just because he's been doing it for so long but I don't know who'd replace him. Senate Majority Leader Cornyn?

That being said, if the GOP loses the House majority in 2018 and loses Senate seats, I'm betting McConnell and Ryan are both done. The tea party is going to be mad as hell that they completely blew having a GOP trifecta. At least Pelosi had some achievements under her belt that meant Democrats still supported her, outside of a few conservative members who dissented for show every now and then.

Time for Trump to accept that when it comes to actual governing Pelosi's the one still calling the shots. I knew this was the case when Boehner got Obama to agree to a bill that would cut entitlements and still couldn't sell it to his caucus.
 
Maybe it's just because he's been doing it for so long but I don't know who'd replace him. Senate Majority Leader Cornyn?

That being said, if the GOP loses the House majority in 2018 and loses Senate seats, I'm betting McConnell and Ryan are both done. The tea party is going to be mad as hell that they completely blew having a GOP trifecta. At least Pelosi had some achievements under her belt that meant Democrats still supported her, outside of a few conservative members who dissented for show every now and then.

Time for Trump to accept that when it comes to actual governing Pelosi's the one still calling the shots. I knew this was the case when Boehner got Obama to agree to a bill that would cut entitlements and still couldn't sell it to his caucus.

You mean Fox News is right about the power of ~~~PELOSI~~~?
 

FyreWulff

Member
Maybe it's just because he's been doing it for so long but I don't know who'd replace him. Senate Majority Leader Cornyn?

That being said, if the GOP loses the House majority in 2018 and loses Senate seats, I'm betting McConnell and Ryan are both done. The tea party is going to be mad as hell that they completely blew having a GOP trifecta. At least Pelosi had some achievements under her belt that meant Democrats still supported her, outside of a few conservative members who dissented for show every now and then.

Time for Trump to accept that when it comes to actual governing Pelosi's the one still calling the shots. I knew this was the case when Boehner got Obama to agree to a bill that would cut entitlements and still couldn't sell it to his caucus.

Yeah. It's like they forgot Dems have the same issue. When you have a majority, the power leverage completely changes and gives less people in the party more power. See also: Lieberman, Nelson (NE), etc.

They should have just said their piece on ACA 8 years ago and moved on. They're the ones that made themselves a single issue party that can't pass jack shit unless they pass the unpassable.

And they have an idiot non-politician as president that insists on spinning the tires
 
third rail, bitch

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/17/...ss&emc=rss&smid=tw-nytpolitics&smtyp=cur&_r=0

WASHINGTON — In the end, Republicans relearned a lesson that has bedeviled them since the New Deal: An American entitlement, once established, can almost never be retracted.

Since the day the Affordable Care Act passed Congress, Republicans have vowed to overturn it. In the beginning, many voters were with them, handing the Republican Party some of the tools: a sweeping rejection of House Democrats in 2010 — a rejection of government reach — followed by the Senate in 2014.

But in the intervening years, as millions of Americans have become insured under the law that was derisively tagged with President Barack Obama’s name, the health care program has become more and more popular, even with Republican governors.

In red states where Mr. Obama and Democrats remain highly unpopular, the law’s reach into American lives could not be denied. This was true for communities ravaged by the opioid crisis, which health care money helped treat; for rural states where hospitals had become all but dependent on increased Medicaid payments that covered the bulk of their patients; and for poor constituents with chronic medical conditions who had come to take it as an article of faith that their insurance companies could not deny them coverage for pre-existing conditions.

Congressional Republicans, emboldened by their narrow majority, pushed their luck from Day 1. Not content simply to pull apart the health care law, they took the repeal efforts as a license to make broad-based changes to Medicaid, with provisions that would have capped spending annually and ended the open-ended entitlement for the poor after 50 years, without so much as a public hearing. This was a bridge too far for moderate Republicans and those from states where the party commands fierce loyalty but where poor residents benefit in some form from the law.

The process itself was not helpful. Senator Mitch McConnell of Kentucky, the majority leader, tried to work with a select group of senators who largely represented a conservative view. But without hearings, committee work or a public drafting of the bill — all marks of the original health care law — members on both sides of the divide felt bruised and left out.

Congressional Republicans got little help from the White House, which was at turns disengaged and counterproductive. White House officials and many Republicans seemed to be more dedicated to their true love, changes to the tax system, than to their flirtation with health care.

Now, it is likely they have no choice. Republicans will probably have to do what Mr. McConnell predicted earlier this month: offer an olive branch and work quickly with Democrats to shore up ailing online health care marketplaces. From there, members of both parties have said they want to tweak the existing law to help small businesses and reduce premiums.

But until then, the health program known as Obamacare remains the law of the land.
 
Pretty sure we're going to see that ad again and again and again and again.

Not sure people really care about Hawley's hypocrisy. Maybe I'm wrong. Liberals will obviously point at it and smugly (& rightfully) proclaim him a hypocrite, but Republicans won't give a shit because they hate Claire.

Some moderate voters could care I guess. But Hawley is young and handsome. Didn't work for Unemployed Man, so maybe it won't work for him either.
 

RoKKeR

Member
This whole repeal and start from a clean slate stuff is such horse shit.

You can't just hit the reset button on a fifth of the US economy and then stand around holding your dick for two years while everything crumbles.

Hoping this shitty ass bill stays dead.
 
Not sure people really care about Hawley's hypocrisy. Maybe I'm wrong. Liberals will obviously point at it and smugly (& rightfully) proclaim him a hypocrite, but Republicans won't give a shit because they hate Claire.

Some moderate voters could care I guess. But Hawley is young and handsome. Didn't work for Unemployed Man, so maybe it won't work for him either.
It doesn't have to be the focus of her campaign and I doubt it will be. But it's certainly something that can hurt him, just like I think Ossoff was hurt somewhat by the residency issue.
 
This is true - subtle jabs at his past comments by Claire would definitely hurt him to a point.
There are times where a losing candidate is hurt by one major turn of events that completely sinks their ship, or death by a thousand holes poked in their boat.

While Claire could have still won last time without Akin's abortion comment, that would be in the category of the former. This time I think she might need a death by a thousand cuts-type of campaign to pull it off.
 
BBC World News is going in on McConnell. They've also got an American analyst pointing out how effective Obama and Democrats were with passing the ACA.
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
BBC World News is going in on McConnell. They've also got an American analyst pointing out how effective Obama and Democrats were with passing the ACA.

Obama gets shit on for not doing enough by some, but all this should make it very clear how hard it is to do anything of any real size or importance. Negotiating with hundreds of people at once, which is what passing a law entails, is no easy task and requires a great deal of effort and cunning. Him, Pelosi, and Reid are all-stars for getting the ACA through.
 
Let's say Mitch resigns or chooses not to run again. How much chance would we have in an open seat in Kentucky? McConnell won by only 100,000 votes in 2008, meaning that incumbency advantage might have saved him, and Grimey performed decently in a Republican year despite trying like hell to pretend she didn't know who the president was.

Shinra will say, "LOL Kentucky," but we might have a chance there.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom