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PoliGAF 2017 |OT4| The leaks are coming from inside the white house

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sangreal

Member
http://www.andrewbenjaminhall.com/Hall_Thompson_Base_Turnout.pdf

Going full left or right is a bad idea! (And I'd make the argument that Trump didn't run as one, he just lied his ass off and said what people wanted to hear because he's a compulsive liar!)

Candidate Trump wasn't an extremist but super VP Pence was, so it was clear where things were headed

I really wish they had just let him pick Christie. Then we wouldn't have to deal with him in NJ anymore, and he would have been an infinitely better influence than Pence
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
Candidate Trump wasn't an extremist but super VP Pence was, so it was clear where things were headed

True, but Trump is also a lying conman and the average voter is dumb as rocks, especially when being promised exactly what they've always wanted. Also racist, a lot of voters are racist/sexist/homophobic still.

I really wish they had just let him pick Christie. Then we wouldn't have to deal with him in NJ anymore, and he would have been an infinitely better influence than Pence

Had he picked Christie the corruption would have been even worse than it is now.
 

GrapeApes

Member
Trump ends covert CIA program to arm anti-Assad rebels in Syria, a move sought by Moscow

President Trump has decided to end the CIA’s covert program to arm and train moderate Syrian rebels battling the government of Bashar al-Assad, a move long sought by Russia, according to U.S. officials.

The program was a central plank of a policy begun by the Obama administration in 2013 to put pressure on Assad to step aside, but even its backers have questioned its efficacy since Russia deployed forces in Syria two years later.

Officials said the phasing out of the secret program reflects Trump’s interest in finding ways to work with Russia, which saw the anti-Assad program as an assault on its interests. The shuttering of the program is also an acknowledgment of Washington’s limited leverage and desire to remove Assad from power.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...2&wpisrc=al_alert-COMBO-world%2Bnation&wpmk=1


Anyone know if we're done arming the Kurds?
 

sangreal

Member
True, but Trump is also a lying conman and the average voter is dumb as rocks, especially when being promised exactly what they've always wanted. Also racist, a lot of voters are racist/sexist/homophobic still.



Had he picked Christie the corruption would have been even worse than it is now.

I'm from NJ where corrupt politicians are a fact of life. I'll take it over right-wing christian extremism any day
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
I'm from NJ where corrupt politicians are a fact of life. I'll take it over right-wing christian extremism any day

Hey man, I get where you're coming from, but a Trump administration that's smarter about it's corruption is bad for everyone. Especially since Trump doesn't give a crap about the religious stuff (outside of being racist and sexist and homophobic).
 
Big OH Gov news:

http://statenews.org/post/justice-s...-race-because-his-preferred-candidate-will-be

The only Democrat holding statewide office in Ohio says he won’t follow through on the run for governor he was considering – because he says his favored candidate will be getting into the race.

Ohio Supreme Court Justice Bill O’Neill said he was interested but wouldn’t be making a decision on the governor’s race till January – since he’d have to leave the bench to run. But he now is saying he’ll be staying where he is. “I was contacted by a mutual friend with Richard Cordray last week and they wanted to be very clear on whether or not my original commitment was still valid. And that was that if Richard Cordray is in the race for governor I am out of the race for governor. And that is still the case,” O'Neill said.

The former Ohio attorney general now heads the federal Consumer Financial Protection Bureau. Though Cordray hasn’t confirmed anything, it’s widely suspected that he will announce his candidacy for the Democratic nomination for governor around Labor Day.
 

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
Steve Kopack‏Verified account @SteveKopack

Voter fraud panel chair Kobach just told @KatyTurNBC that we "may never know" if @HillaryClinton really won the popular vote.

Kobach is now vying for "Worst person in the country."

It's not the Examiner that's the problem in this equation honestly. Price's HHS is obligated to say Cruz amendment is awesome because they don't deal in facts there, they just come up with fake stuff to support their case.

Right, I know that's the big issue--I was just going to say how it wasn't a shock that this paper all of a sudden got the exclusive on this.
 

Ogodei

Member
Trump ran as the anti-Clinton, basically Third Way but the opposite of the Third Way Dems, who were neoliberal economically and social progressives, you have Trump's brand of the third way which embraces white nationalism and economic populism.

Except, surprise surprise, the economic populism was just a load of hot air because it's completely out of step with the entire GOP and he doesn't have anything remotely resembling policy savvy, let alone the savvy needed to redirect GOP orthodoxy on welfare.
 
Trump ends covert CIA program to arm anti-Assad rebels in Syria, a move sought by Moscow


https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...2&wpisrc=al_alert-COMBO-world%2Bnation&wpmk=1


Anyone know if we're done arming the Kurds?

Not that I heard of.

Literally never.

Good move.

This decision seems more to benefit Putin and Russians policy in Syria and not anything related to trying to prevent death or increase peace. Quite actually it might do the opposite.

The training and providing the certain rebels with weapons is an effort to keep them in your orbit and have some control over them so that they want be swayed by powers that might make them more dangerous. The moderate rebels might possibly have the incentive to work with the jihadists far more and get assistance from countries like SA, UAE, and Turkey now that the US is out of the picture. Additionally, the US would have a say in certain situations now the US does not have that much in some ways. One example, was that the US prevented the rebels from getting MANPADS, but now SA and UAE might have the power to give them that without the US getting in the way.

Also Obama's rational was to pressure the government to get on the table to agree to things like ceasefires.

The intelligence and military community is not going to like this one bit as it seems like it is giving concessions to Russia. A win for Russian's position and the government's in the war and it will increase their leverage, but it might piss off allies and IC.
 

PBY

Banned
This decision seems more to benefit Putin and Russians policy in Syria and not anything related to trying to prevent death or increase peace. Quite actually it might do the opposite.

The training and providing the certain rebels with weapons is an effort to keep them in your orbit and have some control over them so that they want be swayed by powers that might make them more dangerous. The moderate rebels might possibly have the incentive to work with the jihadists far more and get assistance from countries like SA, UAE, and Turkey now that the US is out of the picture. Additionally, the US would have a say in certain situations now the US does not have that much in some ways. One example, was that the US prevented the rebels from getting MANPADS, but now SA and UAE might have the power to give them that without the US getting in the way.

Also Obama's rational was to pressure the government to get on the table to agree to things like ceasefires.

The intelligence and military community is not going to like this one bit as it seems like it is giving concessions to Russia.

I've read about / heard the bolded presented in various different flavors - and it never fucking works.
 

kess

Member
http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ss...o_looks_to.html#incart_river_mobileshort_home

The Republican National Committee, which is controlled by President Donald Trump, views the lieutenant governor as someone who hasn't been loyal to the president and officials there see her race as a losing cause, according to two sources familiar with the RNC's plans. The sources requested anonymity because they were not authorized to speak publicly.

The Republican Governors Association, a nationwide group formed with the sole purpose of electing GOP governors, has invested minimally in New Jersey and currently has no plans to change course, sources say.

The other hit for Guadagno comes right here in New Jersey, where Gov. Chris Christie's top fundraisers privately say they are sitting out the race because, in part, she's been deemed disloyal to the governor after criticizing him on several issues, including his stay at the governor's beach house during the state shutdown.

Facing new urgency in her search for financial backing, Guadagno will travel next week to Aspen, Colo. to seek to support from Republican donors, fundraisers and her fellow GOP governors at the Republican Governors Association summer meeting. The RGA spent $9 million during Christie's two campaigns.

An insider within the RNC's top leadership -- who declined to speak for attribution because such appointees serve at the pleasure of the president -- said the lieutenant governor's dire national fundraising situation stems as much from her double digit lag in recent polls as her public criticism of both the president and the governor.

"[The president] is unhappy with anyone who neglected him in his hour of need," said the RNC insider, referring to Guadagno's public disavowal of Trump after a 2005 video of Trump surfaced last October showing him making crude, sexually aggressive statements.


After the Access Hollywood video surfaced, Guadagno took to Twitter to say she would no longer support Trump.
 
Kobach is now vying for "Worst person in the country."



Right, I know that's the big issue--I was just going to say how it wasn't a shock that this paper all of a sudden got the exclusive on this.
I love this simultaneous belief that Hillary is both an evil mastermind who rigged 3-5 million illegal votes in her favor to win the popular vote, but also she's so stupid and incompetent that she wouldn't do this in the states that actually matter.

Huma: "Mistress, shouldn't we redirect some of our illegal votes towards the swing states?"

Hillary: "NO, you fool! We must run up the score in California, it's the only way!"
 
I've read about / heard the bolded presented in various different flavors - and it never fucking works.
How do you know it doesn't work in Syria's case? Most of the 'moderate' rebels don't always partake in the activities with the Islamists unless it is part of a large battle.It has been known that UAE, Oatar, SA, and Turkey funds the many rebel groups. What makes you think they won't jump into their orbit now?

Another point, is that the southern rebels are supported by Israel, Jordan, and USA they were held back by the USA and Jordan from attacking Daraa and other places for a long time, and ironically one of the reasons why the fragile ceasefire was created in southeastern Syria. If those rebels get other supporters, there's no reason to listen to the US.
 

PBY

Banned
How do you know it doesn't work in Syria's case? Most of the 'moderate' rebels don't always partake in the activities with the Islamists unless it is part of a large battle.It has been known that UAE, Oatar, SA, and Turkey funds the many rebel groups. What makes you think they won't jump into their orbit now?

Another point, is that the southern rebels are supported by Israel, Jordan, and USA they were held back by the USA and Jordan from attacking Daraa and other places for a long time, and ironically one of the reasons why the fragile ceasefire was created in southeastern Syria. If those rebels get other supporters, there's no reason to listen to the US.

Its already a fucking mess.
 
I've read about / heard the bolded presented in various different flavors - and it never fucking works.

It seems to have worked reasonably well with the Kurds. Back in 2014/5 when ISIS over-ran large parts of Iraq they could have declared independence and thrown fuel on the fire but didn't to avoid losing Western political and military support.
 
I love this simultaneous belief that Hillary is both an evil mastermind who rigged 3-5 million illegal votes in her favor to win the popular vote, but also she's so stupid and incompetent that she wouldn't do this in the states that actually matter.

Huma: "Mistress, shouldn't we redirect some of our illegal votes towards the swing states?"

Hillary: "NO, you fool! We must run up the score in California, it's the only way!"

But like. It's amazing.
 
How do you know it doesn't work in Syria's case? Most of the 'moderate' rebels don't always partake in the activities with the Islamists unless it is part of a large battle.It has been known that UAE, Oatar, SA, and Turkey funds the many rebel groups. What makes you think they won't jump into their orbit now?

Another point, is that the southern rebels are supported by Israel, Jordan, and USA they were held back by the USA and Jordan from attacking Daraa and other places for a long time, and ironically one of the reasons why the fragile ceasefire was created in southeastern Syria. If those rebels get other supporters, there's no reason to listen to the US.

We don't know for sure if it won't in this case, but all you need to do is pick pretty much any conflict we've armed rebels in during the last 60 years to know that this country's history of giving arms to rebel uprisings usually results is some shitty shit.
 

dramatis

Member
Except, surprise surprise, the economic populism was just a load of hot air because it's completely out of step with the entire GOP and he doesn't have anything remotely resembling policy savvy, let alone the savvy needed to redirect GOP orthodoxy on welfare.
There's a lot of chatter about how in a hypothetical world where the economic populism part was real, maybe Trump could have actually changed something. Right now it feels like he caved to the Republican establishment for his own ego.
 
Every time I hear about one of these programs, all I can think is "Mujahideen." Throwing guns at rebels and then refusing to support them further does nothing but breed radicals and terrorists.

I would argue that it's the bolded bit that's the issue more than anything, tbh. Hit-and-run nationbuilding rarely works out.
 

Ogodei

Member
If I have to hear about how "oh this move is totally burning Trump's political capital" one more time.

He did burn all his political capital. That's why he can bellow at congress all day and they won't do a damn thing about it. Nobody (well, maybe Tom Cotton and Dana Rohrbacher) wants to do anything *for* Trump the way previous presidents have had folks in Congress and elsewhere willing to go to bat for them.

Political capital is oversold, but it's real.
 
I would argue that it's the bolded bit that's the issue more than anything, tbh. Hit-and-run nationbuilding rarely works out.

In this case, we're talking about a covert CIA program. Just because they also hate Trump doesn't necessarily mean we can trust them to do anything other than the bolded.
 
In this case, we're talking about a covert CIA program. Just because they also hate Trump doesn't necessarily mean we can trust them to do anything other than the bolded.

I mean, fundamentally, under this administration we can safely assume that anything that can be screwed up will. I'm more making the general argument that our "arm the rebels" approach has lacked followthrough, which makes it difficult to judge the general strategy on long-term merits when there is no long-term planning.
 

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
Katy Tur‏Verified account @KatyTurNBC

Katy Tur Retweeted Katy Tur

Me: So are the votes for Donald Trump that led him to win the election in doubt as well?
KOBACH: Absolutely.

This man is a moron.
 

Those articles have little to do with point I am making, that having control over some of the rebels means that you can prevent them from doing things that you don't want. Not about the program itself being messy (I have been aware of that) .

The Washington post article makes that clear that they might be able to get things the US prevented them from getting.

One big potential risk of shutting down the CIA program is that the United States may lose its ability to block other countries, such as Turkey and Persian Gulf allies, from funneling more sophisticated weapons — including man-portable air-defense systems, or MANPADS — to anti-Assad rebels, including more radical groups.

Basically this move can make things worse by giving free reign to Turkey and the Gulf Nations. That is bad.

I am not saying the program is good or bad, nor I am saying I am supporting it. I am explaining my point of the reasoning behind the program and what might happen if Trump stops it.
 
Q: So should we don't even know if Trump won the election, do we?

Kobach: Do I even know if you're really real? Am I even real? What even is reality?
 

Kusagari

Member
If Kobach doesn't even think this own voter fraud panel will be able to tell us if Hillary stole the popular vote then what is the point of it?

This guy can't even bullshit properly.
 

sc0la

Unconfirmed Member
Petty as fuck.

Not that Guadagno would win even with the RNC's support, but it's still surreal to see a president sabotage his own party this way.

Look how he's shifting blame onto specific senators. He probably wants them to be primaried and lose. They really got their monkey's paw president.
If he primary's someone and they lose that's a "win" for him. Even if the seat flipped. He doesn't give a shit as long as he "won" something.
 

Mike M

Nick N
If Kobach doesn't even think this own voter fraud panel will be able to tell us if Hillary stole the popular vote then what is the point of it?

This guy can't even bullshit properly.

I read that more as a dig at no one cooperating with the panel's request for voter data.
 
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