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PoliGAF 2nd Pres. Debate 2008 Thread (DOW dropping, Biden is off to Home Depot)

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B

BenjaminBirdie

Banned
Saint Gregory said:
If that's what McCain supporters' hopes are pinned on I'm not sure why they didn't just add the Rapture to that list.
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:lol

I'm in fucking tears!

Still, first-time voters are inexperienced voters and, Mr. McCain’s advisers are no doubt hoping, less likely to turn out if, say, the weather is bad.
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S

Stoney Mason

Banned
VictimOfGrief said:
In other news....

US_National_Debt_crop.jpg

Link:http://gizmodo.com/5062531/national-debt-clock-to-get-most-depressing-upgrade-ever
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Btw this always explodes under Republican Presidents in recent history.
 
S

Saint Gregory

Member
VictimOfGrief said:
Comedy gold....

Quote:
He also called for a $3,000 tax credit for each additional full-time job a business creates. That means a business that adds five jobs would get a $15,000 break. That would end after 2010 and would cost $40 billion, the campaign estimates
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Would the tax revenue generated from the new workforce offset those costs?
 
B

Beer Monkey

Member
StoOgE said:
I agree that false convictions are a problem, but they are a problem in general with the legal system. Our legal system needs to be corrected in general.

And yeah, I think felons should lose the right to vote. We are talking serious crimes when they approach that level... and I dont look at it like punishment, I think we have a right to keep destructive members of society from having a say in our elections process. These are people that have been bad-actors in our society. Once you prove that you are willing to harm the society you live in you shouldnt have a say in its day to day operations.
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Meh, I don't see it as so black and white. I know a guy who was a dumbass and got busted selling some drugs when he was 18. He was an idiot, he knows he was an idiot, he got a felony conviction (first offense, would have been plea-bargained to a lesser offense in much of the country but not where he lived), did his one year in the joint and then for the next fifteen years he has been a model citizen and a good family man. He is the definition of rehabilitated. I refuse to believe that he should spend the rest of his life unable to vote because of something he did when he was a dumb kid.
 
S

syllogism

Member
VictimOfGrief said:
I'm saying that tax breaks that cost an additional $40 Billion in Debt.... just doesn't quite help us out right now.
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This is a rather confusing position. Are you for higher or lower taxes? Do you think lower taxes can help the economy? What do you think about Mccain's tax cuts?
 
F

Flo_Evans

Member
StoOgE said:
I have no problem disenfranchising ex-felons. I think once you prove that you are no longer a member of society in good standing you should forfeit your right to vote. You broke the social contract, you pay the price.
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I say if you pay taxes you deserve a right to have your opinion heard regardless of past mistakes.
 
C

CharlieDigital

Banned
VictimOfGrief said:
Really? Where did I say that?
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Any support for McCain is implicit support for tax cuts across the board.

At least Obama has the balls to say he's going to raise taxes for the top 5% and part of his message has been that he will try to close corporate tax loopholes.
 
M

maximum360

Member
That McCain rally is just a sea of white when the camera pans around the room.

Where's the token black guy asking McCain to bring up Ayers and Rev. Wright?

:lol
 
N

numble

Member
StoOgE said:
I agree that false convictions are a problem, but they are a problem in general with the legal system. Our legal system needs to be corrected in general.

And yeah, I think felons should lose the right to vote. We are talking serious crimes when they approach that level... and I dont look at it like punishment, I think we have a right to keep destructive members of society from having a say in our elections process. These are people that have been bad-actors in our society. Once you prove that you are willing to harm the society you live in you shouldnt have a say in its day to day operations.
Click to expand...

It is a felony to look at someone else's email without their permission.
 
V

VictimOfGrief

Banned
syllogism said:
This is a rather confusing position. Are you for higher or lower taxes? Do you think lower taxes can help the economy?
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The taxes we have now are fine.... meaning they're low enough based on the spending we did to get them there. Lowering taxes further by printing more money and increasing our debt from my point, doesn't seem to do the economy much good. We've all seen how our Government has thrown money at this problem and it looks to not be fixing it right?
 
V

VictimOfGrief

Banned
CharlieDigital said:
Any support for McCain is implicit support for tax cuts across the board.

At least Obama has the balls to say he's going to raise taxes for the top 5% and part of his message has been that he will try to close corporate tax loopholes.
Click to expand...

I'd say that's a rather broad reaching statement even to apply to the likes of me. McCain has said that he will keep the Bush tax cuts and may cut taxes further--- but really it's all speculation on exactly how much and when.

My main point is that baseline debt now + lower tax + more debt = doesn't help our deficit nor our economy.
 
S

Saint Gregory

Member
Tim-E said:
Just when you thought he was done with the POW card, here it comes again!
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Dude, why would you think he was ever done with the POW card. When you got to the next level in Mario Bros were you not expecting a fresh supply of POW to be there?
 
S

StoOgE

First tragedy, then farce.
CharlieDigital said:
Well, that's one part of the possible problems. What about fraud? For example, a sole proprietor decides to put his teenage kids on his payroll to get a $6000 tax break?
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Not a real problem.

They would have to pay payroll taxes on those two kids that would nearly equal that amount. I'm also sure the "jobs" have to be fulltime, minimum wage, etc that are created. if they build in enough provisions this deal will essentially mean you dont pay taxes for creating new jobs. It wont really be putting money in their pockets, it will just offset the tax liability for creating those new jobs.
 
C

CharlieDigital

Banned
VictimOfGrief said:
I'd say that's a rather broad reaching statement even to apply to the likes of me. McCain has said that he will keep the Bush tax cuts and may cut taxes further--- but really it's all speculation on exactly how much and when.

My main point is that baseline debt now + lower tax + more debt = doesn't help our deficit nor our economy.
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No one is reaching. The Tax Policy Center has already evaluated the economic proposals of both candidates and McCain's would cost trillions more.

If you're going to vote based on who has a better economic plan, then you should vote for Obama. If you're going to bash Obama for additional spending, then you need to revoke your support for McCain first because his tax policy will cost at least a trillion dollars more.

StoOgE said:
Not a real problem.
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I will feel better about this policy if we can get some more details.
 
B

Beer Monkey

Member
riskVSreward said:
What the hell, he's got us right where he wants us? Who let this happen!?
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Oh! Had enough, eh? Come back and take what's coming to you, you yellow bastards! Come back here and take what's coming to you! I'll bite your legs off!
 
C

Cloudy

Banned
CharlieDigital said:
I need to see more details before I jump aboard...I can see all sorts of ways that this could be abused by unscrupulous companies not to mention that it could cause a sort of "job bubble" when the tax breaks are rescinded.

Need more details on how he'll prevent employer fraud and how to prevent it from being abused.
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Yeah it'd have to be enforced well..
 
T

Tamanon

Banned
I will say Obama's plan of $10k from retirement savings without the penalty is a lot more effective right now and needed than that silly RMD plan of McCain's.
 
A

artredis1980

Banned
J

Jason's Ultimatum

Member
CharlieDigital said:
I need to see more details before I jump aboard...I can see all sorts of ways that this could be abused by unscrupulous companies not to mention that it could cause a sort of "job bubble" when the tax breaks are rescinded.

Need more details on how he'll prevent employer fraud and how to prevent it from being abused.
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Reminds me of the capital gains tax cut in the 90s that offset the stock market bubble. Greenspan warned about that too.
 
C

CharlieDigital

Banned
Tamanon said:
I will say Obama's plan of $10k from retirement savings without the penalty is a lot more effective right now and needed than that silly RMD plan of McCain's.
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I think this is the best part of his proposal.

It's responsible because it's not government money and the money is going to go directly into the economy or paying off debt, for the most part. It's letting people help themselves.
 
N

numble

Member
I have a feeling all these conservative endorsements are because they see the writing on the wall, and so they complain and criticize all throughout 2008-2012 by saying, "I voted for this guy, but..." and in 2012 they can support the strong(?) GOP candidate by saying, I voted for Obama, but this candidate is so much better.
 
C

CharlieDigital

Banned
numble said:
I have a feeling all these conservative endorsements are because they see the writing on the wall, and so they complain and criticize all throughout 2008-2012 by saying, "I voted for this guy, but..." and in 2012 they can support the strong(?) GOP candidate by saying, I voted for Obama, but this candidate is so much better.
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The only candidate that'll be better than Obama is Obama with 4 years of presidential experience :lol
 
S

Soybean

Member
The Obama stuff sounds good mostly, but I have to say I'm pretty opposed to letting people withdraw from retirement accounts without penalty. Times might be tough right now, but that money should be untouchable for the good of the person saving it.

a.) You'd be letting them divest when the market is near the bottom.
b.) You're letting fools be irresponsible. They may never pay themselves back and this will hurt them down the road when it's retirement time.
 
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