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PoliGAF 2nd Pres. Debate 2008 Thread (DOW dropping, Biden is off to Home Depot)

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JCreasy

JCreasy

Member
Brannon said:
If it tricks people into voting, let him keep it close. VOTE BITCHES.
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Exactly

That's why I don't mind all of the "Obama can't close deal" talk.

We need to keep the pressure on. I'm sure Obama does too.
 
C

CharlieDigital

Banned
Soybean said:
With compounded growth over years, though, $10,000 can grow to be a decent amount.
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This assumes that the markets are going to recover significantly and that there will be significant growth. For those who are near retirement (5-10 years out), taking out $10,000 will have little to no effect. For people like me who are still 30+ years out, I agree, it's not the best idea, but it's another tool that people can choose to use or not use.

I'm not too up in arms about it, since it is only $10,000. It's the principle of the matter, though: I'm simply opposed to touching any retirement money, ever, until you actually retire. And you should absolutely be socking enough away to be a millionaire by the time you retire, because if you adhere to the recommended 4% withdrawal rate, you want enough to still live on.
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The problem that I see now is that people are going bankrupt and getting foreclosed on, which ultimately, costs everyone money. It's better if these folks can use their own money first if they have it available and are willing to be self sufficient.
 
M

Macam

Banned
numble said:
I have a feeling all these conservative endorsements are because they see the writing on the wall, and so they complain and criticize all throughout 2008-2012 by saying, "I voted for this guy, but..." and in 2012 they can support the strong(?) GOP candidate by saying, I voted for Obama, but this candidate is so much better.
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That's more or less what I'm thinking, though I think it's at least partially authentic. Many of the conservative endorsements come from the intellectual circles of conservatives who, I have no doubt, likely feel genuinely insulted by a VP choice like Palin, just as they say. Had it been anyone else, even someone like used car salesman Romney, I'm sure they'd be singing a different tune in the face of similar odds. Fundamentally, these kinds of people are more economic conservatives and foreign policy ones rather than social ones, which is pretty much the defining characteristic of the McCain ticket at the moment.

saelz8 said:
Conservatives: McCain alienating base on economy
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That article just about sums up the usual principles vs. pragmatism war in politics. It's easier said than done on the floor of the House than it is when you're at the top of a ticket and simultaneously at the bottom of the polls.

Oh, and Malkin's quote at the bottom is LOL-worthy. That she somehow managed to tie ACORN into the economic crisis in a single sentence is an impressive feat.
 
T

TDG

Banned
I heard that McCain said that he's got Obama "right where he wants him." I can't believe the dems got tricked by the republicans again. And here I was thinking things were going well, and it turns out that it was a trap.
 
G

gcubed

Member
CharlieDigital said:
This assumes that the markets are going to recover significantly and that there will be significant growth. For those who are near retirement (5-10 years out), taking out $10,000 will have little to no effect. For people like me who are still 30+ years out, I agree, it's not the best idea, but it's another tool that people can choose to use or not use.



The problem that I see now is that people are going bankrupt and getting foreclosed on, which ultimately, costs everyone money. It's better if these folks can use their own money first if they have it available and are willing to be self sufficient.
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it affords young people the oppurtunity to not think things through and take "free money". Someone under 30 taking 10k out in one fell swoop is a pretty hefty chunk of change come retirement day.

Its a gain and a loss at the same time, and i guess its ultimately up to the person. If you have about 10k in credit card debt, you can take it out and pay it off, but then use a decent percentage of the money you were paying monthly to the credit cards to open and contribute to an IRA.

I dont think its a bad idea, as long as there is some education along with it.
 
3

3rdman

Member
StoOgE said:
I have no problem disenfranchising ex-felons. I think once you prove that you are no longer a member of society in good standing you should forfeit your right to vote. You broke the social contract, you pay the price.
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That's a slippery slope. Here in Florida we still bar all felons from voting although that might change as Crist actually supports a return of those right.

Keep in mind, it is FELONY to have pot on your possession and there are a surprising number of crimes that have a felony designation. I would agree with you however if we are talking about only murderers and such but we are not.
 
S

SpeedingUptoStop

will totally Facebook friend you! *giggle* *LOL*
TDG said:
I heard that McCain said that he's got Obama "right where he wants him." I can't believe the dems got tricked by the republicans again. And here I was thinking things were going well, and it turns out that it was a trap.
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Tortoise and the Hare, baby, TORTOISE AND THE MOTHER FUCKING HARE.
 
C

CharlieDigital

Banned
gcubed said:
it affords young people the oppurtunity to not think things through and take "free money". Someone under 30 taking 10k out in one fell swoop is a pretty hefty chunk of change come retirement day.
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As mentioned, I don't think it will be "free", it will probably still incur a tax, but not the additional taxes levied on early withdrawal.
 
H

Hootie

Member
Dax01 said:
Dax needs an update please, PoliGAF.

Oh, and Electoral-vote.com now has ND as barely DEM.
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We'll give you an update only if you change your avatar back to anything Sophie Ellis Bexter related.

Obama gains 3 points in Gallup Daily
 
P

PrivateWHudson

Member
RumpledForeskin said:
If your mortgage is with one of the banks that received bailout money, then he's asking for 3 months leeway for foreclosure.
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How does this really help though? If you someone can't pay their mortgage now, what's going to change three months from now? Also, what about the people who are going into forclosure but their bank is sound and doesn't need the bailout...are they just screwed?

This all just sounds "feel good". If it would really help, it should be across the board to all who are in forclosure.
 
G

gcubed

Member
CharlieDigital said:
As mentioned, I don't think it will be "free", it will probably still incur a tax, but not the additional taxes levied on early withdrawal.
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well yes, it will most likely be taxed at your current tax level...
 
G

greepoman

Member
The problem about giving specifics is that now it gives McCain & pundits something to attack. My guess is now he's going to spend him time attacking Obama's points instead of coming up with his own.
 
S

Saint Gregory

Member
greepoman said:
The problem about giving specifics is that now it gives McCain & pundits something to attack. My guess is now he's going to spend him time attacking Obama's points instead of coming up with his own.
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Exactly where Obama wants him :D
 
C

CharlieDigital

Banned
PrivateWHudson said:
How does this really help though? If you someone can't pay their mortgage now, what's going to change three months from now? Also, what about the people who are going into forclosure but their bank is sound and doesn't need the bailout...are they just screwed?

This all just sounds "feel good". If it would really help, it should be across the board to all who are in forclosure.
Click to expand...

For people living paycheck-to-paycheck, it helps if they are being foreclosed on due to job loss (more time to find a job).

For people who are also being burdened by credit card debt, it also allows time to restructure their debt.

It is certainly "feel good", but I think that 90 days is a good amount of time to let people get their lives/jobs/financials in order.
 
G

GhaleonEB

Member
greepoman said:
The problem about giving specifics is that now it gives McCain & pundits something to attack. My guess is now he's going to spend him time attacking Obama's points instead of coming up with his own.
Click to expand...
The advantage with going into specifics now is it provides a contrast to McCain, whose new closing strategy (for today, anyways) is to attack Obama and play the scrappy underdog. While Obama can continue to act presidential by talking specific proposals aimed at job creation. That contrast was on display the past week - and it didn't do McCain any favors.

Obama is continuing this campaign theme, while McCain is shifting his (again).
 
The Lamonster

The Lamonster

Member
GhaleonEB said:
The advantage with going into specifics now is it provides a contrast to McCain, whose new closing strategy (for today, anyways) is to attack Obama and play the scrappy underdog. While Obama can continue to act presidential by talking specific proposals aimed at job creation. That contrast was on display the past week - and it didn't do McCain any favors.

Obama is continuing this campaign theme, while McCain is shifting his (again).
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One thing I have come to expect from this election is Obama remains smart and McCain remains foolish. No matter the twists and turns, you can always expect Obama to be on his game and McCain to be erratic and flaky - whether it's campaign messages, debate performances, interviews, etc.
 
The Lamonster

The Lamonster

Member
Jason's Ultimatum said:
What's great about the new middle class economic relief plan is that Obama will be hammering it again come the debate on Wednesday. :D
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Hopefully, this will be the epic debate we have all be hoping for.
 
S

Stinkles

Clothed, sober, cooperative
3rdman said:
That's a slippery slope. Here in Florida we still bar all felons from voting although that might change as Crist actually supports a return of those right.

Keep in mind, it is FELONY to have pot on your possession and there are a surprising number of crimes that have a felony designation. I would agree with you however if we are talking about only murderers and such but we are not.
Click to expand...


You should look at the number of ex felons who actually vote - it is vanishingly small. So small that basically nobody gives a shit.
 
M

Macam

Banned
And in other news, TMZ has posted a bunch of SFW photos from the Nailin' Paylin set:

069_full.jpg

016_full.jpg


TMZ said:
The plot -- two drunk Russians are driving their tank when it runs out of gas in front of Paylin's home. You can take it from there.

The star - Lisa Ann - ran her lines for us before the shoot. Is it entertaining? You betcha.
Click to expand...
 
K

kaching

"GAF's biggest wanker"
gcubed said:
it affords young people the oppurtunity to not think things through and take "free money". Someone under 30 taking 10k out in one fell swoop is a pretty hefty chunk of change come retirement day.
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Come on, there's nothing stopping young people from not thinking things through by not investing significantly in a retirement plan in the first place. Somebody taking money out of a retirement plan that they had the forethought to engage with in the first place is not as likely to be about rash, unconsidered actions. There's a question about faith in the markets right now, and it's perfectly valid to wonder if there's someplace safer to put some of one's hard-earned money. Or, they just may have an immediate need because of the current economic climate that simply can't be avoided.
 
C

Clevinger

Member
Stoney Mason said:
Bill is simply like a lot of conservative pundits. They pretend the things they say aren't recorded and the things they write aren't archived.

To be fair it's the perfect racket because they know the media outfits never actually bring up their hypocrisy.
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They have faith that the people who listen to them have short attention spans.
 
F

Fragamemnon

Member
Honestly, this strikes me as big of a deal as the other annoucements in Obama's speech:

Comrade Barack Obama said:
We will pass the Employee Free Choice Act.
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This bill is a huge deal, I always knew that Obama would support it if it came to his desk, but I'm glad he's taking the time to say so now, in the heat of the campaign.
 
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