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[MassiveAttack]

Honestly, though, I don't think the first debate was anything stellar. To me, these days, debates are largely meaningless outside how they can be spun. Meaning, avoid mistakes, throw out some zingers, and you did fine. Who won? Probably the guy you liked going into the debate.

This is almost by design, though. Seriously, 90 minutes covering a wide variety of topics? You couldn't satisfy policy wonks even if you wanted to. When you're asked about the economy and how you're going to fix it, what can you do in three minutes outside of hitting generalities? Nothing, really.

Largely meaningless to the outcome, yes. But if McCain somehow manages to insert the whole "Obama hangs with terrorists" shtick, it's really over for his campaign right then and there.

 

[GhaleonEB]

why is socialist such a scary word in america?

stuff like universal healthcare, free education and stuff THAT's whats considered socialist in the us right?

or am i wrong?

I overheard a conversation with someone in the cube next to me earlier today. She was saying if Obama gets elected, we're on a straight trip to socialism.

And I'm sitting here thinking, half of all bankruptcies in the US are caused by medical bills. If socialism means no one has their life and their families lives ruined just because they got sick, bring it the fuck on.

I didn't get into it - I'm already known as the raging liberal of the group - but it was interesting to hear the term used like a curse word.

 

[Fragamemnon]

People associate socialism with Soviet style planned economies and not modern european social democracies. That's why it's such a boogeyman word in the US.

 

[ViperVisor]

I overheard a conversation with someone in the cube next to me earlier today. She was saying if Obama gets elected, we're on a straight trip to socialism.

And I'm sitting here thinking, half of all bankruptcies in the US are caused by medical bills. If socialism means no one has their life and their families lives ruined just because they got sick, bring it the fuck on.

I didn't get into it - I'm already known as the raging liberal of the group - but it was interesting to hear the term used like a curse word.

But guys like Tucker Carlson like living on the edge. No insurance for your newborn.

http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=103040&title=O.J.-and-Hillary

 

[Justin Bailey]

These so called "debates" aren't even debates anymore. They're shit.

I want some hardcore debating like when everything hit the fan at the Constitutional Convention. It was debate that led to the creation of the United States, but nowadays it's almost extinct in its pure form.

I hear you, but that just wouldn't work for the purpose of informing the American public on a particular candidate's views. Basically the presidential debates would turn into your typical episode of the O'Reilly factor.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

Largely meaningless to the outcome, yes. But if McCain somehow manages to insert the whole "Obama hangs with terrorists" shtick, it's really over for his campaign right then and there.

Yes, but what you refer to is watching the debate for the theatrics of it. Much like the Biden - Palin debate. People tuned in to see gaffes. The debates don't match up with the ideal that these are important events because we'll see who's more knowledgable anymore.

 

[Cauliflower of Love]

why is socialist such a scary word in america?

stuff like universal healthcare, free education and stuff THAT's whats considered socialist in the us right?

or am i wrong?

People are assholes, and believe in every man for himself type deal.

 

[Haunted]

People associate socialism with Soviet style planned economies and not modern european social democracies. That's why it's such a boogeyman word in the US.

Yeah, it's a total disconnect to us over here, I usually have to explain to people why 'socialist' or socialism is something undesirable, even going so far as being used as a smear or insult in the US. :lol

I blame the Cold War, the people were indoctrinated that it's the devil/boogyman whatever you're going to call it. It's gonna take the US a couple generations to get over that label and stop demonising it, I guess.

 

[Fragamemnon]

It's also hilarious that someone working in a cube farm would be worried about socialism. Those people, and the classes below them, are the primary benefactors of socialism.

 

[Shaheed79]

This can't go wrong for Obama. This can't go wrong for Obama. And somehow it will.

I don't know how many times I have to insinuate to you people that Obama was chosen to be president a long time ago. They will let him get the office but what they do to him after he takes the executive seat is what all of us should really be worried about. That 700 Billion dollar bail-out crap already hurt his attended goals considerably.

 

[MassiveAttack]

Yes, but what you refer to is watching the debate for the theatrics of it. Much like the Biden - Palin debate. People tuned in to see gaffes. The debates don't match up with the ideal that these are important events because we'll see who's more knowledgable anymore.

Except that the terrorist line from McCain wouldn't be a gaffe but rather a deliberate tactic that no one is going to buy. In this town hall setting it will simply come off as desperation from a desperate man. Good theater, yes. But part of McCain's script all along.

 

[TDG]

Honestly, though, I don't think the first debate was anything stellar. To me, these days, debates are largely meaningless outside how they can be spun. Meaning, avoid mistakes, throw out some zingers, and you did fine. Who won? Probably the guy you liked going into the debate.

Oh believe me, I agree, I was only saying that debate #1 was better than the 2004 formats. Anyone who thinks that we'll learn much of anything about the candidates' policies, or even their thought process, is an idiot.

I'd love to see 2 hour long debates with the two candidates actually debating policies, not just spouting talking points for two minutes. Sadly, 95% of Americans would say "wtf is this?" so we stick to the watered-down debates.

 

[MrHicks]

I overheard a conversation with someone in the cube next to me earlier today. She was saying if Obama gets elected, we're on a straight trip to socialism.

And I'm sitting here thinking, half of all bankruptcies in the US are caused by medical bills. If socialism means no one has their life and their families lives ruined just because they got sick, bring it the fuck on.

I didn't get into it - I'm already known as the raging liberal of the group - but it was interesting to hear the term used like a curse word.

"student loans" is also a thing i don't get
you have debt from going to school? really?

you have to get a second job to afford going to univercity?
wat?

america is such a scary place on social issues
the goverment doesn't seem to give a shit and leave your ass to dry

 

[Fragamemnon]

I blame the Cold War, the people were indoctrinated that it's the devil/boogyman whatever you're going to call it. It's gonna take the US a couple generations to get over that label and stop demonising it, I guess.

Nah, we'll just call it something else. We're really good at marketing things, be it products or ideas.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

Except that the terrorist line from McCain wouldn't be a gaffe but rather a deliberate tactic that no one is going to buy. In this town hall setting it will simply come off as desperation from a desperate man. Good theater, yes. But part of McCain's script all along.

I understand what you're saying. What I'm saying is that, in a traditional debate where policy is the focal point, these attacks would never be considered. Should McCain do what you've described, it's only because of what debates are nowadays: theatrical performances to hit on your talking points.

You and I aren't necessarily disagreeing. I just think we're not arguing the same thing.

 

[Stoney Mason]

crazy shit

You're consistent at least...

 

[CharlieDigital]

"student loans" is also a thing i don't get
you have debt from going to school? really?

My sister owes something like $60k. My wife owes something like $40k.

I'm clear because I went to a cheap state university (but even that was getting obscene in my final year).

america is such a scary place on social issues
the goverment doesn't seem to give a shit and leave your ass to dry

Pretty much, but it's awesome in so many other ways.

 

[GhaleonEB]

My sister owes something like $60k. My wife owes something like $40k.

I'm clear because I went to a cheap state university (but even that was getting obscene in my final year).

Michelle and Barack came out of college (okay, Harvard) with well over $100k in student loans, and took over ten years to pay it off. One of the many reasons I want him to win - he's gone through that shit.

 

[Justin Bailey]

america is such a scary place on social issues
the goverment doesn't seem to give a shit and leave your ass to dry

:lol It's not scary, you're just left to your own devices a little more so than some European counterparts. We got some drama queens around here I swear. . .

 

[Hootie]

I know you're probably writing tongue-in-cheek, but you do know long and arduous of a process it took for the US to be created from those debates? And even then when compromises were made, we could still have become a monarchy (post-revolution) and on top of that, the seeds for the Civil War were being sewn even then.

/history dork

Well by United States I predominantly meant the Constititution. I know we really weren't "United" until the Post-Civil War period.

And if I just sounded like an idiot, it's probably because I don't know what the hell I'm talking about, for the most part. Ten months of daily PoliGAF have gone by for me and yet I still don't even have the slightest grasp of politics.

 

[speculawyer]

The Electoral College map that used to be a wash of red (with a few exceptions like the West Coast and the Northeast) is starting to look like the Smurfs are progressively marching across the country. (In other words, the map is turning a Democratic blue.)

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ynews/ynews_ts59
Smurfs? Really?

 

[GhaleonEB]

:lol It's not scary, you're just left to your own devices a little more so than some European counterparts. We got some drama queens around here I swear. . .

No, actually it is scary. I have brother still in debt from college from several years ago. I know someone tens of thousands in the hole from medical bills. Especially now, with the markets tanking, the idea of some kind of major medical problem worries me; my health is quite poor in a number of ways and something major would wipe us out. Not to mention normal concerns about my kids.

And I have insurance.

 

[MrHicks]

:lol It's not scary, you're just left to your own devices a little more so than some European counterparts. We got some drama queens around here I swear. . .

well to me its scary:lol
for me it would be scary without the govemrent paying my health and school bills

i mean 60k/100k+ school bills? thats some crazy ass horror shit right there:lol

 

[Haunted]

Nah, we'll just call it something else. We're really good at marketing things, be it products or ideas.

:lol that works as well.

 

[speculawyer]

People associate socialism with Soviet style planned economies and not modern european social democracies. That's why it's such a boogeyman word in the US.

This is the USA:

See those old ladies there? I can guarantee they are collecting social security and medicare (both 'socialist' programs).

 

[Zombie James]

No, actually it is scary. I have brother still in debt from college from several years ago. I know someone tens of thousands in the hole from medical bills. Especially now, with the markets tanking, the idea of some kind of major medical problem worries me; my health is quite poor in a number of ways and something major would wipe us out. Not to mention normal concerns about my kids.

And I have insurance.

That is some scary shit...

 

[Slurpy]

Fuck you, Cindy.

Cindy McCain said today that she expects her husband to clear the record at tonight's debate and let America know where he truly stands.

McCain, who stopped to visit a half-dozen children at the Monroe Carell Jr. Children's Hospital at Vanderbilt today, said the presidential candidate Sen. Barack Obama has "waged the dirtiest campaign in American history," and her husband Sen. John McCain will use tonight's debate to correct the distortions.

 

[The Chosen One]

I agree this debate will be LAME.

There is zero follow-up questions from the voter or the moderator. The candidates aren't allowed to address each other. They might as well appear separately. Better yet just roll a video of them reading voter letters. That's basically all this is.

I guess the upside for Obama that it's pretty much impossible for McCain to have a game-changer. With this restrictive format, the candidates can stick close to their stump speeches and prepared remarks. They don't even have to answer the question. In the end, Republicans and pundits will probably think McCain won. And Dems and Independents will probably think Obama won. There isn't much buzz around this debate so I bet the ratings will be fairly mediocre.

Basically we'll be in the same place tomorrow that we are today.

 

[Hootie]

Fuck you, Cindy.
*article*

wate wat

WAT

The candidates aren't allowed to address each other.

...the hell? Why even call it a debate?

What a joke...

 

[Shaheed79]

hopeless indignant stuff

*shakes head*

This is coming from someone who has actually spoken with Obama. He is incredibly aware that there are those who want to see his presidency fail.

 

[MassiveAttack]

Cindy McCain said today that she expects her husband to clear the record at tonight's debate and let America know where he truly stands.

McCain, who stopped to visit a half-dozen children at the Monroe Carell Jr. Children's Hospital at Vanderbilt today, said the presidential candidate Sen. Barack Obama has "waged the dirtiest campaign in American history," and her husband Sen. John McCain will use tonight's debate to correct the distortions.

 

[GhaleonEB]

That is some scary shit...

And to add one final note:

My mother died over $100,000 in debt from medical bills a few years ago. She spent most of her final year fighting with hospitals and insurance companies about her bills and coverage. Her diseases were terminal (auto-immune disease and pulmonary fibrosis), but better care would have added a few years to her life.

So this is kind of personal to me.

As it is for Obama, and her mother's cancer.

 

[Suikoguy]

I agree this debate will be LAME.

There is zero follow-up questions from the voter or the moderator. The candidates aren't allowed to address each other. They might as well appear separately. Better yet just roll a video of them reading voter letters. That's basically all this is.

I guess the upside for Obama that it's pretty much impossible for McCain to have a game-changer. With this restrictive format, the candidates can stick close to their stump speeches and prepared remarks. They don't even have to answer the question. In the end, Republicans and pundits will probably think McCain won. And Dems and Independents will probably think Obama won. There isn't much buzz around this debate so I bet the ratings will be fairly mediocre.

Basically we'll be in the same place tomorrow that we are today.

Yep, exactly.

Barring something unforeseen, the last debate is the last opportunity McCain has to turn this thing around.

 

[ViperVisor]

Fuck you, Cindy.

Has she never seen a black person before this and assumed he was covered in dirt? Thought she would of learned when the girl she adopted didn't change color?

 

[besada]

*shakes head*

This is coming from someone who has actually spoken with Obama. He is incredibly aware that there are those who want to see his presidency fail.

Can you define "they"? Did Obama define "they" when he spoke to you about the dangers to his Presidency?

 

[DancingJesus]

"student loans" is also a thing i don't get
you have debt from going to school? really?

you have to get a second job to afford going to univercity?
wat?

america is such a scary place on social issues
the goverment doesn't seem to give a shit and leave your ass to dry

My brother had to take out 60K in loans for his school. I really worry about him getting a job afterword’s, since he only has 6 months after he graduates to start paying off the debt.

It's really no laughing matter.

 

[BobTheFork]

Fuck you, Cindy.

Son of a bitch, I don't want to miss this debate. I think normally it would be bland, but given the third 'debate' will only be about the economy, I expect Duncan McCain to fire his last shots tonight, and it will be a sight to behold. If he actually tries to pretend Obama has been overly slanderous and he wanted to stay above it, it could be epic. McCain may have a heart attack right on stage :|

 

[Tyrone Slothrop]

I agree this debate will be LAME.

sounds good to me. as long as nothing rocks the boat at this point...

 

[Slurpy]

I agree this debate will be LAME.

There is zero follow-up questions from the voter or the moderator. The candidates aren't allowed to address each other. They might as well appear separately. Better yet just roll a video of them reading voter letters. That's basically all this is.

I guess the upside for Obama that it's pretty much impossible for McCain to have a game-changer. With this restrictive format, the candidates can stick close to their stump speeches and prepared remarks. They don't even have to answer the question. In the end, Republicans and pundits will probably think McCain won. And Dems and Independents will probably think Obama won. There isn't much buzz around this debate so I bet the ratings will be fairly mediocre.

Basically we'll be in the same place tomorrow that we are today.

I don't understand why the fuck we can't have a format where the 2 candidates sit across from each other, and the moderator gives them 10 minutes to actually fucking DEBATE A TOPIC WITH EACH OTHER- you know, so the other guy can instantly call the guy out on his opponents bullshit, and theres infinite follow-up. Fuck these 'debates' where the candidates hardly interact and give their own stump speeches, sometimes with absolutely no regard for the questions posed.

 

[DataStream]

sorry if old...

McCain wrote letter of support for ex-trooper now awaiting trial in civil rights killing.

 

[Zen]

Do we have any links for streams?

 

[Justin Bailey]

No, actually it is scary. I have brother still in debt from college from several years ago. I know someone tens of thousands in the hole from medical bills. Especially now, with the markets tanking, the idea of some kind of major medical problem worries me; my health is quite poor in a number of ways and something major would wipe us out. Not to mention normal concerns about my kids.

And I have insurance.

Yeah, universal health coverage is something this country needs to get on board with. I'm sorry for you and your family's situation.

 

[pxleyes]

Fuck you, Cindy.

I would honestly slap that woman if I ever saw her. That is beyond the most backwards comment ever.

 

[mckmas8808]

If that happens I'm throwing my slippers at my television. McCain gets nothing from tearing irrationally into Obama, but I wasn't comfortable with how much Obama stressed how much he agreed with McCain on point X in the last debate.

It was a strategy that worked for Obama last time. Don't be surprised to hear him say it again tonight.

 

[Barrett2]

That Cindy McCain is one classy broad.

Doesn't she have another marriage to ruin, without ruining my evening with her inane comments.

 

[maniac-kun]

jesus christ i hope you guys get some universal medical coverage in europe youre not in such bad situations if you get ill or family members getting ill

 

[mj1108]

Fuck you, Cindy.

Jesus christ.....

 

[Haunted]

Fuck you, Cindy.

Stupid trophy wife or just mindlessly indoctrinated?

You decide.

 

[saelz8]

Palin Criticizes Biden While He's At Mother-In-Law's Funeral

 

[TheClimaxan]

My brother had to take out 60K in loans for his school. I really worry about him getting a job afterword’s, since he only has 6 months after he graduates to start paying off the debt.

It's really no laughing matter.

I agree it's no laughing matter, but I would say you don't have to freak out too much depending on your brothers lender. I just finished my 6 month grace period and my first loan payment is due in December, but if I hadn't of found a job all I would've done is make one phone call and they would defer payment until I found one.

Like I said though, it all depends on your lender.