MightyHealthy
Banned
Are you talking about the Palin rally? If it's not that, please link. Share your paranoiakaching said:
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PoliGAF 2nd Pres. Debate 2008 Thread (DOW dropping, Biden is off to Home Depot)
- Thread starter Amir0x
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GoldenEye 007
Member
So, registration just ended in Florida yesterday. At UCF I overheard from one of the annoying bastards pushing registration with the Obama campaign that about 10,000 new people were registered on campus. They were there perpetually for months and months pushing voter registration and were effectively spread all over campus, not just the Student Union area. Pretty impressive.
Steve Youngblood
Member
It depends on what you're referencing we be optimistic about. The economy? I think it'll ultimately turn around, obviously, but I think things are going to continue to get worse for a while before they get better.EMBee99 said:
As for as the election? I don't want to argue that it's a forgone conclusion that Obama is definitely going to win, but honestly I think this thing is about as "in the bag" as it can get without actually holding the official election tomorrow. I won't rule out some calamity, though.
The Librarian
Banned
Someday... someday.Fragamemnon said:
Ah yes, that's right.kkaabboomm said:
Stoney Mason
Banned
scorcho said:
I agree. And in any other year I would be right there with you. Actually I am right there with you as I think he can still be friendly without saying he agrees with Mccain so much when Mccain of course will never do the same.
To be honest I'm more concerned with the spin of it than what actual people think. I fear the people are dumb enough to be swayed by pundits and Mccain operatives who frame it as weakness so that's why I think tactically there are better ways to go about it.
But honestly I've consistently over-looked Obama instincts which are generally correct all the way back to the primaries so I might be wrong in this case also.
Fragamemnon
Member
GoldenEye 007 said:
Voter registration numbers in Florida are simply absurd-Democrats gained a net 250,000 voters this year. For reference, that number is over half of the margin of victory that Bush won FL in 2004.
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
lawblob said:
Eh. They said the same kinda stuff before Palin.
Spineless? Spineless is refusing to acknowledge what should be obvious common ground out of the irrational macho fear of not being the only one with good ideas in the room.scorcho said:
And, frankly, I think Obama agreeing with McCain probably just pisses McCain off more at this point, regardless of how his campaign tries to spin it.
Yeah, the accounts from her Clearwater rally I think, in the WaPo article linked on the last page or two.MightyHealthy said:
MassiveAttack
Banned
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Stoney Mason said:I knew I wasn't going crazy with all my I'm seeing a ton of Obama commericals in FL.
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/thefix/2008/10/obamas_spending_edge.html
THIS is the information that the media doesn't tell the average person. It's crazy how the Obama is straight killing the McCain team with pure brillance.
Fragamemnon
Member
Tamanon said:
Newt clearly wants to run an insurgent, Dean style campaign rooted in fiscal conservatism and limited government in 2012. I was actually shocked that he didn't do it this year.
Steve Youngblood
Member
I don't understand what Newt is arguing, there. What he's suggesting makes sense if, and only if, McCain hadn't already made his heroic last stand to save the economy by 'suspending' his campaign and tethering himself to the already passed bailout plan. What does he do now to save the economy? Can he be taken seriously if he tries?lawblob said:
Stoney Mason
Banned
kaching said:
To be fair he's talking about the media narrative that has already been written from the past and is very difficult to change. Republicans are "tough guys" and liberals are "accommodating".
BobTheFork
Member
Obama should just stay the hell away from that. It's there if people care, but McCain's attacks have been failing and Obama doesn't need to fire unnecessary shotsMassiveAttack said:
Have some time? Check out this maddening AIM conversation with my "independent" friend:
(I had brought up McCain graduating at the bottom of his class, crashing a bucnh of planes, etc)
Sean
He didnt do coke, hang out with a convictided terrorist or follow a rasist preacher if you wanna sling out dirt
2 of those things mean a lil more to me then a guy who sucked it up at the academy and crashed his plane...
McCain even said his time in the prison camp changed his view on life
Justin
so, basically what you have on Obama is that he's... come into contact with some people that have done some bad things?
That's almost as bad as GOP saying you shouldn't vote for Obama because he's too popular.
Sean
not just contact
he is friends with the guy
he wrote a book review, had a political meetup at the guys house
I was taught early on the company you keep is a reflection on you
really what I am saying is I find it funny you bring up mudslinging articles.... yet in your twitter hope for no mudslinging in the debate...
i guess it no mud slinging at obama only
Justin
You think it's the same thing?
No one in the Obama campaign is saying "you crashed your plane 100% because you were reckless, lol"
the only things they bring up are things germaine to the current narrative.
People give Obama shit for bringing up McCain's involvement in the Keating stuff in the 80s
and I can sort of see where they're coming from.
But ultimately, that whole scandal focused around regulation, or the lack of it... the stripping of it. And that's extremely relevant to what's going on today
so to say "hey, you know, here's McCain's history with this" is OK.
Sean
How about the advisors of Obama are they fair game?
Justin
Bringing up that Obama has met a radical who went to prison for things he did when Obama was EIGHT.... that's less OK.
You do realize that Ayers was doing that stuff when Obama was in 2nd grade, right?
Sean
I will put it this way
I woulnt associate with a former terrorist (and in my view someone who still pushes that view)
Justin
Hm... you and I work with lots of older people, in this business. People in their 50s, early 60s
do you know what they were all up to, back then?
you've never worked with a businessperson that could have been involved in some radical activities, in the past?
Better question: You've never associated with someone now who held beliefs or did things in the past that you didn't agree with?
Calling Ayers a Terrorist is like calling George Bush a coke-head and an alcoholic. Even though he does neither.
So you think it's OK for peeps to be branded for life?
regardless of what he does, he is and will forever be a "terrorist" ?
Sean
but bush isnt talking about how he should have done more coke
I think specific acts lend a life branding
if you kill people our a murder
if you commit acts of terror, on your own country more so.. your a terrorist
Justin
does it matter to you that Ayers is on the board of dir. of a philanthropic organization? For the last eight years
after being convicted and getting out of prison, what should he have done?
Obama's closest connection to Ayers is that the both served on that board, in fact.
The fact that Ayer's fundraised for his state senate position doesn't mean much
the KKK supports McCain, after all.
Sean
Im sure the Black Panters support Obama...
Justin
they still exist?
I mean I'm sure they do support O
that's sorta my point
it isn't a reflection on the candidate.
Sean
I hear ya
its one thign to have an outside group back you
its another to have a political meeting at their house
Justin
The Ayers thing is meaningless. If you wanna support McCain for policy reasons fine. But I'm saddened to spouting this one, because it's hot air.
Ayers did bad shit 40 years ago, and in the decades since has become a strong voice for education reform.
keep in mind that the radicals in the 60s weren't called terrorists, at the time.
that label has been placed on them retroactively.
Sean
i back mccain on policy
i never b4 have brought up this other stuff
Justin
I know you do.
Sean
obama has MANY issues I have problems with him on
this stuff is like the side order... not the main dish
I have a BIG problem with both parties right now
Justin
So you should have the indepedant thought to say "McCain bringing up Ayers is disenginouous and harms the political process"
because that's what it is
Sean
the economy....having govenment involved in the first place... the forced loans "for equality" to people who clearly shouldnt have had them int he first place... including illegals...
Justin
it's very transparently a ploy to say "hey don't look at all this... look over THERE"
If McCain is putting country first by ensuring the public is aware of Obama's connections with Ayers, why now? Why not 6 weeks ago?
Sean
I do question Obamas choice in the people he hangs with and I DO feel that factors into things
i mean look at the people Bush brought with him,....
Justin
You mean the people surrounding McCain now?
those Bush people?
or other Bush people?
Sean
Im tryin to rembember names... (sorry got a lot on my plate right now)
Justin
I mean look, we can have differing opinions. I don't care.
But you have to be honest. You can't intentionally mislead. That's when I'll go after you.
And that's what Ayers is. Ayers isn't someone Obama "hang out" with.
Sean
Rumsfeld, Ashcrpft and those clowns
He did though
it is a fact he was at his house for political meet ups
it was a fact he wrote a positive "review" of the guys book
Justin
Ayers reviewed Obama's, or vice versa?
Sean
I mean I agree pointing to everyone he knows and what they did isnt a solid debate
obama wrote one on Ayers book
but after a while when all these folks keep poping up who are connected with him.... it makes you wonder about his choice in who he works with
Justin
but what does that mean?
Should Obama have not served on those philanthropic boards?
you don't think it should matter that Ayers has a positive impact on society this decade?
oh also the last time they met was 6 years ago. Weren't you and I in highschool then?
Sean
Ayers still spouts off nut job talk
Justin
and it was THIRTEEN years ago that the fund raiser happened.
Sean
I am sayin Bil Ayers today is still a wack job
Justin
the bottom line is they haven't been social outside of the work they did together
charity work
soo...?
I mean just be straight with people. If Ayers concerns you what you need to be saying is "He's done charity work with people who were radical against the US in the 60s"
not that he "hangs around with terrorists"
or "palling around" as Palin put it.
Sean
In the months before Ayers' memoir was published on September 10, 2001, the author gave numerous interviews with newspaper and magazine writers in which he defended his overall history of radical words and actions. Some of the resulting articles were written just before the September 11 terrorist attacks and appeared immediately after, including one often-noted article in The New York Times, and another in the Chicago Tribune. Numerous observations were made in the media comparing the statements Ayers was making about his own past just as a dramatic new terrorist incident shocked the public.
Justin
keep reading.
lol
I know what you're pasting from.
Sean
Much of the controversy about Ayers during the decade since the year 2000 stems from an interview he gave to The New York Times on the occasion of the memoir's publication.[19] The reporter quoted him as saying "I don't regret setting bombs" and "I feel we didn't do enough", and, when asked if he would "do it all again" as saying "I don't want to discount the possibility."[14] Ayers has not denied the quotes, but he protested the
interviewer's characterizations in a Letter to the Editor published September 15, 2001: "This is not a question of being misunderstood or 'taken out of context', but of deliberate distortion."
ive read it all
Justin
so he says he still doesn't support the vietnam war.
Sean
thats fine i get that
but he also said "I've thought about this a lot. Being almost 60, it's impossible to not have lots and lots of regrets about lots and lots of things, but the question of did we do something that was horrendous, awful? ... I don't think so.
Justin
there's a couple key take aways from this. The first is to not mis-characterize Ayers. You can't take the bad but not the good. I hope you'd agree to that.
the 2nd is to not mis-characterize his connection with Obama
which is pretty laughably tenuous.
Sean
Eh I feel some people who do bad... well the good they do is overshadowed....
bombing your own people...
I aint too ok with that even if you fight for education the rest of your life
Its my "I suck at being a christian" side of me
Justin
he didn't bomb people FYI.
Sean
We are gonna go round and round on this lol
i know what the bombing was
Justin
and here's why this angers me: I don't want to defend Ayers' actions. Because I don't support them
and neither does Obama.
That's what's at the heart of all this.
Sean
anyways i gtg back to work ( gotta prep for all those extra taxes Obama is gonna throw at me ....to be "fair)
Justin
How much more will you pay under Obama's tax plan?
I pay less.
Sean
Not even gonna get into it.... cause thats like 4 hours more chatter
lol
Justin
ok. Keep fighting the good fight... don't worry about facts getting in your way
Sean
Rightttttt.... lol Well we will see what happens when people vote...
Justin
yeah! GOP must have their fingers crossed that there's more latent racism out there than most people believe.
Sean
naw... its the hope we have more people out there who arent socialist's
lol gtg bud
Justin
zing.
(I had brought up McCain graduating at the bottom of his class, crashing a bucnh of planes, etc)
Sean
He didnt do coke, hang out with a convictided terrorist or follow a rasist preacher if you wanna sling out dirt
2 of those things mean a lil more to me then a guy who sucked it up at the academy and crashed his plane...
McCain even said his time in the prison camp changed his view on life
Justin
so, basically what you have on Obama is that he's... come into contact with some people that have done some bad things?
That's almost as bad as GOP saying you shouldn't vote for Obama because he's too popular.
Sean
not just contact
he is friends with the guy
he wrote a book review, had a political meetup at the guys house
I was taught early on the company you keep is a reflection on you
really what I am saying is I find it funny you bring up mudslinging articles.... yet in your twitter hope for no mudslinging in the debate...
i guess it no mud slinging at obama only
Justin
You think it's the same thing?
No one in the Obama campaign is saying "you crashed your plane 100% because you were reckless, lol"
the only things they bring up are things germaine to the current narrative.
People give Obama shit for bringing up McCain's involvement in the Keating stuff in the 80s
and I can sort of see where they're coming from.
But ultimately, that whole scandal focused around regulation, or the lack of it... the stripping of it. And that's extremely relevant to what's going on today
so to say "hey, you know, here's McCain's history with this" is OK.
Sean
How about the advisors of Obama are they fair game?
Justin
Bringing up that Obama has met a radical who went to prison for things he did when Obama was EIGHT.... that's less OK.
You do realize that Ayers was doing that stuff when Obama was in 2nd grade, right?
Sean
I will put it this way
I woulnt associate with a former terrorist (and in my view someone who still pushes that view)
Justin
Hm... you and I work with lots of older people, in this business. People in their 50s, early 60s
do you know what they were all up to, back then?
you've never worked with a businessperson that could have been involved in some radical activities, in the past?
Better question: You've never associated with someone now who held beliefs or did things in the past that you didn't agree with?
Calling Ayers a Terrorist is like calling George Bush a coke-head and an alcoholic. Even though he does neither.
So you think it's OK for peeps to be branded for life?
regardless of what he does, he is and will forever be a "terrorist" ?
Sean
but bush isnt talking about how he should have done more coke
I think specific acts lend a life branding
if you kill people our a murder
if you commit acts of terror, on your own country more so.. your a terrorist
Justin
does it matter to you that Ayers is on the board of dir. of a philanthropic organization? For the last eight years
after being convicted and getting out of prison, what should he have done?
Obama's closest connection to Ayers is that the both served on that board, in fact.
The fact that Ayer's fundraised for his state senate position doesn't mean much
the KKK supports McCain, after all.
Sean
Im sure the Black Panters support Obama...
Justin
they still exist?
I mean I'm sure they do support O
that's sorta my point
it isn't a reflection on the candidate.
Sean
I hear ya
its one thign to have an outside group back you
its another to have a political meeting at their house
Justin
The Ayers thing is meaningless. If you wanna support McCain for policy reasons fine. But I'm saddened to spouting this one, because it's hot air.
Ayers did bad shit 40 years ago, and in the decades since has become a strong voice for education reform.
keep in mind that the radicals in the 60s weren't called terrorists, at the time.
that label has been placed on them retroactively.
Sean
i back mccain on policy
i never b4 have brought up this other stuff
Justin
I know you do.
Sean
obama has MANY issues I have problems with him on
this stuff is like the side order... not the main dish
I have a BIG problem with both parties right now
Justin
So you should have the indepedant thought to say "McCain bringing up Ayers is disenginouous and harms the political process"
because that's what it is
Sean
the economy....having govenment involved in the first place... the forced loans "for equality" to people who clearly shouldnt have had them int he first place... including illegals...
Justin
it's very transparently a ploy to say "hey don't look at all this... look over THERE"
If McCain is putting country first by ensuring the public is aware of Obama's connections with Ayers, why now? Why not 6 weeks ago?
Sean
I do question Obamas choice in the people he hangs with and I DO feel that factors into things
i mean look at the people Bush brought with him,....
Justin
You mean the people surrounding McCain now?
those Bush people?
or other Bush people?
Sean
Im tryin to rembember names... (sorry got a lot on my plate right now)
Justin
I mean look, we can have differing opinions. I don't care.
But you have to be honest. You can't intentionally mislead. That's when I'll go after you.
And that's what Ayers is. Ayers isn't someone Obama "hang out" with.
Sean
Rumsfeld, Ashcrpft and those clowns
He did though
it is a fact he was at his house for political meet ups
it was a fact he wrote a positive "review" of the guys book
Justin
Ayers reviewed Obama's, or vice versa?
Sean
I mean I agree pointing to everyone he knows and what they did isnt a solid debate
obama wrote one on Ayers book
but after a while when all these folks keep poping up who are connected with him.... it makes you wonder about his choice in who he works with
Justin
but what does that mean?
Should Obama have not served on those philanthropic boards?
you don't think it should matter that Ayers has a positive impact on society this decade?
oh also the last time they met was 6 years ago. Weren't you and I in highschool then?
Sean
Ayers still spouts off nut job talk
Justin
and it was THIRTEEN years ago that the fund raiser happened.
Sean
I am sayin Bil Ayers today is still a wack job
Justin
the bottom line is they haven't been social outside of the work they did together
charity work
soo...?
I mean just be straight with people. If Ayers concerns you what you need to be saying is "He's done charity work with people who were radical against the US in the 60s"
not that he "hangs around with terrorists"
or "palling around" as Palin put it.
Sean
In the months before Ayers' memoir was published on September 10, 2001, the author gave numerous interviews with newspaper and magazine writers in which he defended his overall history of radical words and actions. Some of the resulting articles were written just before the September 11 terrorist attacks and appeared immediately after, including one often-noted article in The New York Times, and another in the Chicago Tribune. Numerous observations were made in the media comparing the statements Ayers was making about his own past just as a dramatic new terrorist incident shocked the public.
Justin
keep reading.
lol
I know what you're pasting from.
Sean
Much of the controversy about Ayers during the decade since the year 2000 stems from an interview he gave to The New York Times on the occasion of the memoir's publication.[19] The reporter quoted him as saying "I don't regret setting bombs" and "I feel we didn't do enough", and, when asked if he would "do it all again" as saying "I don't want to discount the possibility."[14] Ayers has not denied the quotes, but he protested the
interviewer's characterizations in a Letter to the Editor published September 15, 2001: "This is not a question of being misunderstood or 'taken out of context', but of deliberate distortion."
ive read it all
Justin
so he says he still doesn't support the vietnam war.
Sean
thats fine i get that
but he also said "I've thought about this a lot. Being almost 60, it's impossible to not have lots and lots of regrets about lots and lots of things, but the question of did we do something that was horrendous, awful? ... I don't think so.
Justin
there's a couple key take aways from this. The first is to not mis-characterize Ayers. You can't take the bad but not the good. I hope you'd agree to that.
the 2nd is to not mis-characterize his connection with Obama
which is pretty laughably tenuous.
Sean
Eh I feel some people who do bad... well the good they do is overshadowed....
bombing your own people...
I aint too ok with that even if you fight for education the rest of your life
Its my "I suck at being a christian" side of me
Justin
he didn't bomb people FYI.
Sean
We are gonna go round and round on this lol
i know what the bombing was
Justin
and here's why this angers me: I don't want to defend Ayers' actions. Because I don't support them
and neither does Obama.
That's what's at the heart of all this.
Sean
anyways i gtg back to work ( gotta prep for all those extra taxes Obama is gonna throw at me ....to be "fair)
Justin
How much more will you pay under Obama's tax plan?
I pay less.
Sean
Not even gonna get into it.... cause thats like 4 hours more chatter
lol
Justin
ok. Keep fighting the good fight... don't worry about facts getting in your way
Sean
Rightttttt.... lol Well we will see what happens when people vote...
Justin
yeah! GOP must have their fingers crossed that there's more latent racism out there than most people believe.
Sean
naw... its the hope we have more people out there who arent socialist's
lol gtg bud
Justin
zing.
Stoney Mason
Banned
Steve Youngblood said:
To be honest Mccain is so erratic at the moment I could almost see him suddenly coming out against the bailout
.You are correct of course. There is no logical way for him to have voted for it and suddenly be the angry populist who is against it. His "advice" only makes sense before the bailout bill.
The Librarian
Banned
:lol :lol Good read.GDJustin said:
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
Dude didn't sound that crazy.
Stoney Mason
Banned
Tamanon said:
Of course we all know it's bullshit but you have to play the game. In that sense Democrats even have to play the game by never saying that decreasing defense spending is actually something we should be looking at. We have to be hawks on that issue politically always to reach independents even though if you polled Democrats we are generally against it. It's the world we live in.
<shrugs>
The Lamonster
Member
Those rules are lame as FUCK.
seriously, what the fuck. we will never have a debate like the epic 1992 debate :\
seriously, what the fuck. we will never have a debate like the epic 1992 debate :\
BobTheFork
Member
??? Of course he didn't it's an AP release. I'm saying he MIGHT bring up Keating, but he shouldn't touch this.GhaleonEB said:
Goreomedy said:
I'm assuming it's just a replay.
Interesting fact about our Sheriff, Mike Scott. He's a huge improvement over the old one
The previous, John McDougall, was CONSTANTLY making national headlines for asinine statements.My parents have friends of friends who claim Scott was really a "Democrat" who just ran as a Republican so he could get McDougall out of office (Local offices are not held by Democrats... elections are decided by the Republican primaries.) Seems hard to believe now, but regardless, that fool is still better than the old Sheriff.
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
The Lamonster said:
As long as it keeps McCain from shivving Obama, I'm happy with them.
So all of the questions that will be asked by the audience are already selected? That really keeps the debate from keeping up with current events. I really think there should be some way for someone to ask McCain about what is practically hate speech being spewed out by his supports at his own rallies.
kkaabboomm
Member
debate debate debate!!
whats the current spin? that john mccain loves townhalls? that obama is so high any minor slip will cause him to crash? mccain is angry?
whats the current spin? that john mccain loves townhalls? that obama is so high any minor slip will cause him to crash? mccain is angry?
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
I'm a black panter
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
teiresias said:
I was thinking the same thing. Thursday it is.
The Lamonster said:
These so called "debates" aren't even debates anymore. They're shit.
I want some hardcore debating like when everything hit the fan at the Constitutional Convention. It was debate that led to the creation of the United States, but nowadays it's almost extinct in its pure form.
The Lamonster said:
Yes, but a 1992 debate can backfire for either candidate. Given how clamped down this debate is, it means there's less of a chance of a major meltdown. While McCain melting down would be nice, Obama really just needs to play out the clock. A tie in the next two debates is actually not a bad thing.
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
Stoney Mason said:
Agreed. It's the same thing as accepting Obama's and Biden's slant on Gay Marriage, Gun Control, and Abortion. "Don't piss off the middle."
speculawyer said:
'printing money' is a shorthand for creating money which is done through Open Market Operations. It's not actually physically printing bills, the mint does that, not the Federal Reserve/Central Bank.
The point is, from a budgetary standpoint, a monetarist policy allows for 'growth in money supply' based on 'real' growth in the economy. Of this money supply aggregate physical bills and coins only occupy a small percentage. What money printing means is that a fraction of the annual spending is 'free' as its newly created money which the central banks gives to itself thus increasing the funds available to the government to spend.
The Wiki link you privoded links to this much more instructive article on the monetary policy of the US
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monetary_policy_of_the_USA
Also Money creation generally
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money_creation
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
Hootie said:
I know you're probably writing tongue-in-cheek, but you do know long and arduous of a process it took for the US to be created from those debates? And even then when compromises were made, we could still have become a monarchy (post-revolution) and on top of that, the seeds for the Civil War were being sewn even then.
/history dork
StriKeVillain
Banned
:lolFjolle said:
Steve Youngblood
Member
Honestly, though, I don't think the first debate was anything stellar. To me, these days, debates are largely meaningless outside how they can be spun. Meaning, avoid mistakes, throw out some zingers, and you did fine. Who won? Probably the guy you liked going into the debate.TDG said:
This is almost by design, though. Seriously, 90 minutes covering a wide variety of topics? You couldn't satisfy policy wonks even if you wanted to. When you're asked about the economy and how you're going to fix it, what can you do in three minutes outside of hitting generalities? Nothing, really.
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