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[avatar299]

I'm a bit confused... so, if they were taxed ENOUGH, then wouldn't that not be a surplus or a deficit? You know what I mean? Like, the term surplus implies that they have MORE than they need. I know that this doesn't mean we weren't in debt, or going deeper into debt for that matter. So, why would there ever be a "surplus" if, as you put it, we need the money? Serious question, no political agenda: I swear it!

surplus has nothing to do with taxes. Government revenue was more than expenses.

Let's say you work for a month getting a weekly paycheck. If those 4 paychecks combined are higher than your monthly expenses, than you have a surplus. You could still have credit card debt.

By the way the message that cartoon sends is completely wrong. Clinton didn't create a surplus becuase he taxed more. He had a surplus because Republicans were hawkish on the budget, so Clinton was forced to tax, spend and cut. Amazing how people have rewritten history.

 

[Jak140]

Truthfully I feel out of era if that makes sense. The whole rest of the civilized world has this socialist/capitalist blend and it does work for them. Germany for example was pretty nice when I lived there for 3 years and sure they weren't hitting US level of performance, but then look at us now right?

I kinda wonder if it's time that people who think like me step aside because we're always going to be on the outside, and if all we do is whine and hamper those plans we're gonna get these piece of shit half baked measures that try and mix big business and government and we just ruin every bodies party.

I agree that the capitalist/socialist blend is what seems to work the best in the rest of the world, which is why I never really understood why the Republicans painted it as something negative. My view is that society needs things like, for instance, good public schools because in the long run it benefits everyone, in this case by keeping crime down, while increasing the intelligence of the voting public, and the ability of the American workforce. You can argue that people should be able to spend all their own money, but what good is that money if you live in a society that is collapsing around you? Government is a necessary entity and it needs to be adequately funded in order to function, all the Republicans have done is delay the tax burden onto a future generation while needlessly spending trillions on a foolish and illegal war.

As, someone who is going to vote for Obama, I will say that if the Dems had screwed things up as badly as Bush did in the last eight years, I would definitely be looking to a third party.

 

[vas_a_morir]

Greater revenue than budget outlays. Quite simply, the government has more money than what they've planned to spend. However, this doesn't mean people have been "overtaxed" if there's debt to be paid down, which helps should the time come to go into deficits again.

Ah, I see.

And, I remember, although I was quite young, Al Gore and George Bush had different ideas on what to do with this surplus. I can't remember what Al Gore's plan was, but we all lived through George Bush's plan: Massive tax cuts across the board, mostly benefiting the wealthiest two tax brackets.

 

[speculawyer]

What defines a surplus?

Revenue > expenses

But we could run a surplus for decades and still be in debt.

 

[Hitokage]

By the way the message that cartoon sends is completely wrong. Clinton didn't create a surplus becuase he taxed more. He had a surplus because Republicans were hawkish on the budget, so Clinton was forced to tax, spend and cut. Amazing how people have rewritten history.

I don't think it was the Republicans who pushed for military spending cuts.

 

[Mandark]

By the way the message that cartoon sends is completely wrong. Clinton didn't create a surplus becuase he taxed more. He had a surplus because Republicans were hawkish on the budget, so Clinton was forced to tax, spend and cut. Amazing how people have rewritten history.

Wha?

Clinton passed big tax increases in his first budget. Deficit-busting was his first fiscal priority. Robert Rubin and Robert Reich had a big feud about this.

You can argue that a hypothetical Clinton with a strongly Democratic Congress would have introduced a lot of expensive new social programs post-1995, but the vast majority of deficit reduction came from the omnibus budget reconciliation he pushed in '93.

 

[LuCkymoON]

Well it's funny that options are:
Vote for someone you know disagrees with you or vote for someone who will probably in all likely hood also do things you disagree with.

Not exactly a winner in either of those choices.

I am actually happy that so many of you actually do like your candidate of choice though.

you are the first person I have "met" that hasn't used bullshit reasoning to vote republican, so I really respect you for that. I wish I could say the same about my roommate.:lol

 

[maximum360]

It's so not!

I guess I disagree. While I hate broad generalizations, the fundie block is probably the closest you get to a lemmings group. They are told what to like and how to think and they fall in line pretty quickly. If they could they would load up the buses and send all the hispanics to Mexico and stick all black people and A-rabs in the states bordering. Then they wouldn't have to share those "small town christian conservative values" with anyone else. Essentially it's a Lou Dobbs' wet dream.

 

[speculawyer]

surplus has nothing to do with taxes.

:lol Awesome! lets set the tax rate to zero then!
:lol

By the way the message that cartoon sends is completely wrong.

Sorry, you already lost your credibilty.

 

[avatar299]

I don't think it was the Republicans who pushed for military spending cuts.

I don't think many democrats liked welfare reform.

 

[vas_a_morir]

:lol Awesome! lets set the tax rate to zero then!
:lol

That's phase 2 of the Republican fiscal planning. First step is to spend all your money for the year. Then you press the L button near the end of the year and raise all your rates... then let go. Boom, economy solved. Phase 2 will ensure the populace gives you a high approval rating. Only to complain about land value later. Fucking plebes.

 

[Ether_Snake]

Politic-savvy gaf...

Can somebody explain to me what a surplus is, exactly? I doubt it's as simple as that cartoon would lead you to believe. Could a surplus mean that the people were over taxed during that period? The term "surplus" seems like it would imply that the government taxed more than they needed to spend. Is that an accurate description? If so, would that mean that a surplus is not necessarily a good thing relative to one's own philosophy on economics? Because I am no economist, I'd just like to know what this means a little better.

"Over taxed" no. Do you remember the Clinton years as being difficult times for middle-class Americans? Taxation's impact on your life is immediate. Republicans cut taxes (to the wealthy) and borrow money because they run deficits, which has an impact a few years later (along with immediate negative impacts), on you and your kids and the whole country, and what they borrow must be repaid with an interest on top of that. Meanwhile they cut the funding of everything that is important for the country's prosperity, and attack the education institutions by trying to force in their party's base thinking into the curriculum to cultivate a future voting base that is currently fading (religion). Don't fool yourself into thinking that the debate over evolution is happening elsewhere, it's an political issue brought forward by a party under other guises.

Deficit creators, anti education-accessibility, attempts at dumbing down the population to sustain their voting base through fake debates over meaningless issues, and no accountability.

 

[JCX]

I heard there were some good attack ad parodies on snl tonight. Anyone have a link?

 

[adamsappel]

I hate to burst the Biden Bubble, but the truth needs to be told.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYdSpu4yamM

I remember watching the Clarence Thomas hearings and Biden's hair-plugs were pretty fresh. That was early in the tech and it really did have a "doll hair" look. Looks fine, now, though.

 

[mckmas8808]

This town is hopping. Clark County was always going to be where Democrats hoped to run up their edge enough to win the state. How do both sides feel about their ground game here? Kirstin Searer, Barack Obama's Communications Director, said that Democrats "feel extremely good about our ground game." Indeed, Democrats have gained over 100,000 registrations in Clark County, which helped net roughly 70,000 statewide in the last year. 30,000 new Democrats registered on caucus day alone. Democrats have 5 field offices in Clark County, 14 offices open in the state as a whole, with 3-5 more planned, 90 paid staff and 75 field organizers. Obama is on his way to this critical battleground tomorrow, with visits in Elko and Las Vegas.

Nevada Republican Party Executive Director Zach Moyle also feels strongly confident. Nevada Republicans have been winning on the ground for decades, and they expect it to continue. Until Democrats prove that they can turn out young voters in a non-caucus, Republicans like their chances. Moyle predicted that if Republicans were within three points in the polls here, their superior ground game would make the difference. Republicans have 12 statewide offices open now, with another office set to open in North Las Vegas in the immediate future. McCain's Henderson HQ was busy during our afternoon visit, with young and old, male and female, English and Spanish-speaking volunteers.


We came away impressed by both efforts. We visited all three McCain field offices open in Clark County, and three of Obama's five offices. We also stopped in over in Nye County at each side's Pahrump office. Obama's Pahrump office is here, his current Vegas offices are in the west here, southeast here, central here, and North Las Vegas here and here. McCain/Republican offices are here in Pahrump, here and here in western Vegas, and the HQ in Henderson is here.

Seven weeks out, this is anyone's game. Moyle noted that Republicans had long invested in the technologies necessary to run a strong ground campaign. There's no doubt the VoIP phones are more sophisticated, with the voter file instantly updated with the voter's responses, and Republicans have 200 lines statewide at the moment. Ground game-wise, the champ is still the champ until you knock him out.

Obama's campaign thinks it has a hell of a left hook here in Nevada. More than 3,500 volunteers have gone through specific precinct captain training, and each of these captains has specific contact and voter registration targets. The volunteer and organizer energy at the Obama offices here in Clark was humming. Searer pointed out that it's unprecedented for a Democratic presidential campaign to open offices in places like Elko, Lyon County and Douglas County. Republicans know they've always held off Democratic Clark County by running up lopsided margins in the smaller rural areas around the state. John Kerry won Clark by 36,430 votes in 2004, and Clark was 66% of the statewide vote. But Bush won Nevada by 21,500 because of the rural county edge.

Barack Obama won the delegate count despite losing the popular vote in Nevada's caucuses precisely because he ran so much stronger than Hillary Clinton in the rural counties. He's making a trip to Elko tomorrow, the place John McCain officially announced for President in 2007. In addition, volunteers from California, where a lot of Democrats live, have set up a sister district program, whereby Nevada organizers and volunteers are set up to receive and house volunteers from their neighboring state. Silicon Valley maps to Carson City, for example (I met volunteers in the Carson office after the Palin rally from the Peninsula). Los Angeles/Southern California maps to Vegas. Barack Obama's campaign just put out an email to its California volunteers asking them, "Will you take a short trip to Nevada to make a big difference for Barack?"

Republicans take in out-of-staters too. Busloads of BYU students as well as volunteers from Oregon and Phoenix will come pouring into the state for the final early voting push. Both sides, and the Nevada Secretary of State, expect to see 50% of the eventual vote turn out during the early voting period. We got the sense from Moyle that Republicans are going to know several days before Election Day whether they're going to win, because they already know who their voters are and they know they'll do their usual strong job. They'll be able to see turnout and where it's happening, in which precincts, and they'll know, even if the general public won't. It seemed like the Republican effort is on a set of train tracks: it's strong, organized and focused, but it's really up to the Democrats to prove that their voter registration will translate to a sea change.

.

Looks like Nevada will be very close. The ground game is actually tied here in this state. Color me surprised.

 

[avatar299]

:lol Awesome! lets set the tax rate to zero then!
:lol

You have to be an idiot. A surplus is more revenue than expenses. It doesn't necessarily have to come from taxes.

The government could nationalize an industry and make money off of that if they so wished. A government could set an extremely low tax rate, but cut shrink government size down porpotionally if they so wished.

 

[Stoney Mason]

As, someone who is going to vote for Obama, I will say that if the Dems had screwed things up as badly as Bush did in the last eight years, I would definitely be looking to a third party.

If Democrats ever elect a president who does all the things Bush did that's the day I stop voting because surely the system is fundamentally broken if we are capable of doing that on each side.


On a funny side note when I first came on this board I think I was considered a crazy leftist idealogue because I went after Bush every chance I got but I think personally I try to be a fairly balanced poster who respects views on the left and the right. Bush is so far beyond the pale of what is acceptable for a leader though for me he is almost beyond ideology. He's so bad that it embarrasses me as a citizen that this is what we decided to go with. I'm so intolerant to Republican arguments at this stage mainly just because there is no way I can possibly fathom going with the same party after this mess. It's like post Nixon or something. There needs to be a fresh break and let Republicans reformulate otherwise they will have been rewarded for essentially doing a horrible horrible horrible job. I may have disagreed with Reagan and the father bush but I never thought they were literally incompetent.

 

[AniHawk]

Looks like Nevada will be very close. The ground game is actually tied here in this state. Color me surprised.

Going there Friday through Sunday. Worst-case scenarios are already running through my head, but it will probably go by just fine.

 

[Mandark]

I don't think many democrats liked welfare reform.

The cut in the military budget was three times the cut in welfare spending.

The lower debt service thanks to the balanced budgets had more of an impact than the difference in welfare spending.

Plus the lower welfare numbers had more to do with a booming economy than the workfare act. Welfare spending in 2003 was higher than at any point in the Clinton administration.

Clinton closed the budget gap by raising taxes, enjoying a good economy, and cutting military spending in that order.

 

[mAcOdIn]

you are the first person I have "met" that hasn't used bullshit reasoning to vote republican, so I really respect you for that. I wish I could say the same about my roommate.:lol

Thanks, sorry if he thinks Palin is the second coming.

I agree that the capitalist/socialist blend is what seems to work the best in the rest of the world, which is why I never really understood why the Republicans painted them as something negative. My view is that society needs things like, for instance, good public schools because in the long run it benefits everyone, in this case by keeping crime down, while increasing the intelligence of the voting public, and the ability of the American workforce. You can argue that people should be able to spend all their own money, but what good is that money if you live in a society that is collapsing around you? Government is a necessary entity and it needs to be adequately funded in order to function, all the Republicans have done is delay the tax burden onto a future generation while needlessly spending trillions on a foolish and illegal war.

Yeah, it's not my ideal choice of government but having lived there it's not like it was all that bad either.

@vas_a_morir, dork using such an old Sim City reference lol.

 

[AniHawk]

I'm so intolerant to Republican arguments at this stage mainly just because there is no way I can possibly fathom going with the same party after this mess. It's like post Nixon or something. There needs to be a fresh break and let Republicans reformulate otherwise they will have been rewarded for essentially doing a horrible horrible horrible job.

For a while I was okay with even the terrible job Bush did. Okay in the sense that I was, yes, livid about his lack of effort towards the Katrina situation, the constant lying to the American people, and all that. I was all set on voting Clinton because hey, Bill will be there too. Or if not, then there's McCain, who is probably just running to the right at the moment and doesn't honestly believe all the crazy shit he's saying.

Bzzt. Wrong. A better candidate stepped forward and McCain never stopped running to the right. In fact, McCain has gone off the fucking spectrum. My mom liked him even during the primaries and now she hates him. My dad voted for him twice (I can only guess since he's a Republican), and he's pretty disillusioned with the man (he's told me the picture of him hugging Bush makes him want to puke). And seeing the kind of campaign of shit McCain is running, the kind that relies on blatant lies about your opponent and no solutions of your own, I know I can't just stand by and do nothing like with what happened with Kerry. If I don't, I can't complain about the state of the country or the state of the world. Even my parents are going to be participating come election day other than voting, the first time they've ever been this politically active ever.

So yeah. Sorry about that. Long rambling incoherent speech and all that. Award me no points. Wish that God has mercy on my soul etc.

 

[numble]

Going there Friday through Sunday. Worst-case scenarios are already running through my head, but it will probably go by just fine.

Where are you going? I spent 6 weeks in Nevada this summer, maybe I can give you some info about what to expect... the North is a lot different than the South (where I was).

I spent the day canvassing in Northwest Philadelphia today. Highlight of the day was registering a 92 year old African-American to vote.

 

[AniHawk]

Where are you going? I spent 6 weeks in Nevada this summer, maybe I can give you some info about what to expect... the North is a lot different than the South (where I was).

I spent the day canvassing in Northwest Philadelphia today. Highlight of the day was registering a 92 year old African-American to vote.

I think we're going to Clark County. There's a different group that's from Central/Northern California that's going to Reno and Douglass County either next week or two weeks from now.

My biggest concerns are being shot and/or stabbed in the door-to-door thing (I'm assuming it's all solo).

 

[mckmas8808]

State polls, September 21, 12:01AM EDT: Obama: 291 McCain: 247

 

[Jak140]

If Democrats ever elect a president who does all the things Bush did that's the day I stop voting because surely the system is fundamentally broken if we are capable of doing that on each side.

Honestly, things like Obama voting for FISA and Biden being down with credit card companies and the RIAA really worry me, but since this election is so critical I (and probably a lot of others) refrain from bringing those issues up. I hope we don't come to regret that, but I figure once Obama & Biden are safely in office it will be easier to call them on shit like that. Though, if both parties end up fucking up that badly, I think that might finally be what pushes third parties to prominence, in which case a vote for one would hardly be in vain.

 

[Timedog]

"Over taxed" no. Do you remember the Clinton years as being difficult times for middle-class Americans? Taxation's impact on your life is immediate. Republicans cut taxes (to the wealthy) and borrow money because they run deficits, which has an impact a few years later (along with immediate negative impacts), on you and your kids and the whole country, and what they borrow must be repaid with an interest on top of that. Meanwhile they cut the funding of everything that is important for the country's prosperity, and attack the education institutions by trying to force in their party's base thinking into the curriculum to cultivate a future voting base that is currently fading (religion). Don't fool yourself into thinking that the debate over evolution is happening elsewhere, it's an political issue brought forward by a party under other guises.

Deficit creators, anti education-accessibility, attempts at dumbing down the population to sustain their voting base through fake debates over meaningless issues, and no accountability.

Hammer, meet nail head.

 

[Stoney Mason]

For a while I was okay with even the terrible job Bush did. Okay in the sense that I was, yes, livid about his lack of effort towards the Katrina situation, the constant lying to the American people, and all that. I was all set on voting Clinton because hey, Bill will be there too. Or if not, then there's McCain, who is probably just running to the right at the moment and doesn't honestly believe all the crazy shit he's saying.

Bzzt. Wrong. A better candidate stepped forward and McCain never stopped running to the right. In fact, McCain has gone off the fucking spectrum. My mom liked him even during the primaries and now she hates him. My dad voted for him twice (I can only guess since he's a Republican), and he's pretty disillusioned with the man (he's told me the picture of him hugging Bush makes him want to puke). And seeing the kind of campaign of shit McCain is running, the kind that relies on blatant lies about your opponent and no solutions of your own, I know I can't just stand by and do nothing like with what happened with Kerry. If I don't, I can't complain about the state of the country or the state of the world. Even my parents are going to be participating come election day other than voting, the first time they've ever been this politically active ever.

So yeah. Sorry about that. Long rambling incoherent speech and all that. Award me no points. Wish that God has mercy on my soul etc.

I always cite the war as the breaking point for me and the moment where I considered myself intellectually mature. I'd never seen something so clearly insane happen and watch our government so eagerly do it. It was like seeing a train bearing down on someone on railroad tracks and expecting any moment for the person to jump out of the way but instead he gets mowed down.

While I supported Hillary in the primaries and still support her I always respected Obama because he is arguing the fundamental position that the war was wrong rather than wrongly fought. If I agreed with him on nothing else (which obviously isn't the case) that alone is more than enough reason for me to support him. Also why I always had a fond spot for Ron Paul despite not agreeing with him on much else.

 

[platypotamus]

My biggest concerns are being shot and/or stabbed in the door-to-door thing (I'm assuming it's all solo).

You're probably more likely to die of heat stroke. Do you know what neighborhoods you'll be in? Get a choice? Stay away from downtown, the airport, UNLV, the hospital on Sahara (UMC?), and the part of Henderson near the 95, and you shouldn't have much to worry about.

 

[Ether_Snake]

Honestly, things like Obama voting for FISA and Biden being down with credit card companies and the RIAA really worry me, but since this election is so critical I (and probably a lot of others) refrain from bringing those issues up. I hope we don't come to regret that. But I figure once Obama & Biden are safely in office it will be easier to call them on shit like that.

You have to do certain things to get in office. If you get in with a big popular vote, you have more margin afterward to change your position on certain issues. It could go either way, either they would be more in favor of the RIAA than they currently pretend, or they would be less in their favor once in office. The popularity is a currency they can use bother ways, and in the end it comes down to integrity; if they have it, they'll use their popularity to turn their back moreso on the RIAA (for example), if not they'll shed a bit of their popularity to go their way.

I remember Cheney said to UFO amateurs, after being asked if he would bring about disclosure on UFOs once in office, "first thing I'll do". :lol

 

[AniHawk]

You're probably more likely to die of heat stroke. Do you know what neighborhoods you'll be in? Get a choice? Stay away from downtown, the airport, UNLV, the hospital on Sahara (UMC?), and the part of Henderson near the 95, and you shouldn't have much to worry about.

...As far as being killed or as far as heat stroke goes (I live in SoCal, so I'm aware of the need for water in the desert)?

 

[mAcOdIn]

I actually support the concept of the war.

Here's my thing though for one, I agree with going to war only if you go all the way, I don't think you'd have Truman in WW 2 letting Hitler stay in power or some stupid shit like that so why in the 90's do we let this ass hat run all over us after beating him?
Second, because of these stupid sanctions we were having to keep a presence over there to babysit no-fly zones, I viewed this as a possible proper and full exit strategy.

That said, Afghanistan wasn't and still isn't finished so I disagreed with the timing since we hadn't even accomplished our first and what should have been our primary mission. Further, while I do think Iraq was just a yearly waste of our resources ever so slightly it was not an imminent threat and no such urgency was required. We could have finished in Afghanistan and then if he still wasn't playing along or another dirt bag was there we could have finished Bush Sr's job, or we might have gotten lucky and maybe he'd have been gone who knows?

I in no way support the trumped up charge of WoMD that I always thought was bogus, and I currently think should be criminal, as misleading the public and the world in my opinion should basically be the end of that government right then and there. I do not support the so called occupation or presence of troops there by building permanent bases.

Now that it happened and in every way opposite of how I would have liked to have seen it done I do think we have a responsibility to carry it out to the end no matter how painful for us however.


Edit: Ether_Snake how can you use integrity in that sentence?

 

[The Lamonster]

Couple weeks old, but GREAT:

Deepak Chopra
Obama and the Palin Effect

Sometimes politics has the uncanny effect of mirroring the national psyche even when nobody intended to do that. This is perfectly illustrated by the rousing effect that Gov. Sarah Palin had on the Republican convention in Minneapolis this week. On the surface, she outdoes former Vice President Dan Quayle as an unlikely choice, given her negligent parochial expertise in the complex affairs of governing. Her state of Alaska has less than 700,000 residents, which reduces the job of governor to the scale of running one-tenth of New York City. By comparison, Rudy Giuliani is a towering international figure. Palin's pluck has been admired, and her forthrightness, but her real appeal goes deeper.

She is the reverse of Barack Obama, in essence his shadow, deriding his idealism and exhorting people to obey their worst impulses. In psychological terms the shadow is that part of the psyche that hides out of sight, countering our aspirations, virtue, and vision with qualities we are ashamed to face: anger, fear, revenge, violence, selfishness, and suspicion of "the other." For millions of Americans, Obama triggers those feelings, but they don't want to express them. He is calling for us to reach for our higher selves, and frankly, that stirs up hidden reactions of an unsavory kind. (Just to be perfectly clear, I am not making a verbal play out of the fact that Sen. Obama is black. The shadow is a metaphor widely in use before his arrival on the scene.) I recognize that psychological analysis of politics is usually not welcome by the public, but I believe such a perspective can be helpful here to understand Palin's message. In her acceptance speech Gov. Palin sent a rousing call to those who want to celebrate their resistance to change and a higher vision.

Look at what she stands for:
--Small town values -- a denial of America's global role, a return to petty, small-minded parochialism.
--Ignorance of world affairs -- a repudiation of the need to repair America's image abroad.
--Family values -- a code for walling out anybody who makes a claim for social justice. Such strangers, being outside the family, don't need to be heeded.
--Rigid stands on guns and abortion -- a scornful repudiation that these issues can be negotiated with those who disagree.
--Patriotism -- the usual fallback in a failed war.
--"Reform" -- an italicized term, since in addition to cleaning out corruption and excessive spending, one also throws out anyone who doesn't fit your ideology.

Palin reinforces the overall message of the reactionary right, which has been in play since 1980, that social justice is liberal-radical, that minorities and immigrants, being different from "us" pure American types, can be ignored, that progressivism takes too much effort and globalism is a foreign threat. The radical right marches under the banners of "I'm all right, Jack," and "Why change? Everything's OK as it is." The irony, of course, is that Gov. Palin is a woman and a reactionary at the same time. She can add mom to apple pie on her resume, while blithely reversing forty years of feminist progress. The irony is superficial; there are millions of women who stand on the side of conservatism, however obviously they are voting against their own good. The Republicans have won multiple national elections by raising shadow issues based on fear, rejection, hostility to change, and narrow-mindedness.

Obama's call for higher ideals in politics can't be seen in a vacuum. The shadow is real; it was bound to respond. Not just conservatives possess a shadow -- we all do. So what comes next is a contest between the two forces of progress and inertia. Will the shadow win again, or has its furtive appeal become exhausted? No one can predict. The best thing about Gov. Palin is that she brought this conflict to light, which makes the upcoming debate honest. It would be a shame to elect another Reagan, whose smiling persona was a stalking horse for the reactionary forces that have brought us to the demoralized state we are in. We deserve to see what we are getting, without disguise.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/deepak-chopra/obama-and-the-palin-effec_b_123943.html

 

[Stoney Mason]

I actually support the concept of the war.

Here's my thing though for one, I agree with going to war only if you go all the way, I don't think you'd have Truman in WW 2 letting Hitler stay in power or some stupid shit like that so why in the 90's do we let this ass hat run all over us after beating him?
Second, because of these stupid sanctions we were having to keep a presence over there to babysit no-fly zones , I viewed this as a possible proper and full exit strategy.

That said, Afghanistan wasn't and still wasn't finished so I disagreed with the timing since we hadn't even accomplished our first and what should have been our primary mission. Further, while I do think Iraq was just a yearly waste of our resources ever so slightly it was not an imminent threat and no such urgency was required. We could have finished in Afghanistan and then if he still wasn't playing along or another dirt bag was there we could have finished Bush Sr's job, or we might have gotten lucky and maybe he'd have been gone who knows?

I in no way support the trumped up charge of WoMD that I always thought was bogus, and I currently think should be criminal, as misleading the public and the world in my opinion should basically be the end of that government right then and there. I do not support the so called occupation or presence of troops there by building permanent bases.

Now that it happened and in every way opposite of how I would have liked to have seen it done I do think we have a responsibility to carry it out to the end no matter how painful for us however.

I would have never supported the Iraq War but the American People might have supported it in general even down the line to now if they had only been honest about it. Instead it was building a house on a bad foundation. They had to keep lying and lying to keep it propped up and every lie cost them credibility with the American Public and the world that it was impossible to get back.

 

[platypotamus]

...As far as being killed or as far as heat stroke goes (I live in SoCal, so I'm aware of the need for water in the desert)?

Being killed. The heat stroke is fairly unavoidable if you're going to be outside a lot.

And yes, water is good. Sunscreen as well.

 

[Byakuya769]

surplus has nothing to do with taxes. Government revenue was more than expenses.

Let's say you work for a month getting a weekly paycheck. If those 4 paychecks combined are higher than your monthly expenses, than you have a surplus. You could still have credit card debt.

By the way the message that cartoon sends is completely wrong. Clinton didn't create a surplus becuase he taxed more. He had a surplus because Republicans were hawkish on the budget, so Clinton was forced to tax, spend and cut. Amazing how people have rewritten history.

Yep, it really pisses me off when I see liberal shrills like Peter Navarro give Clinton undue credit. I mean what does that jack ass know?

 

[AniHawk]

Being killed. The heat stroke is fairly unavoidable if you're going to be outside a lot.

And yes, water is good. Sunscreen as well.

Thanks for the heads up.

 

[mAcOdIn]

I would have never supported the Iraq War but the American People might have supported it in general even down the line to now if they had only been honest about it. Instead it was building a house on a bad foundation. They had to keep lying and lying to keep it propped up and every lie cost them credibility with the American Public and the world that it was impossible to get back.

And it was IMO such a non issue that if the country said no to it I'd have been OK. The misleading part is so, so bad. Worst thing IMO of the whole administration. I can actually forgive incompetence during a natural disaster or not agreeing with what the population wants on the economy, but to flat out trumpet a false case to go to war, I do think they should all be up for war crimes, sitting President or not. That was also where I lost respect for Powell as I always thought he seemed like a good guy and was the first black American I thought had a chance of getting elected President. For him to turn around and then criticize what he sold to the world really pissed me off. Can't people just quit anymore when asked to do things that go against their integrity?

 

[numble]

I think we're going to Clark County. There's a different group that's from Central/Northern California that's going to Reno and Douglass County either next week or two weeks from now.

My biggest concerns are being shot and/or stabbed in the door-to-door thing (I'm assuming it's all solo).

With most volunteers (especially newbies) they are going to pair you guys up in two (or 4 if too timid) and one person gets the even side of the street and the other person gets the odd side of the street. So there remains eye contact with another person that can provide a certain amount of safety net.

If you're in Vegas, it'll be a notoriously low contact rate (with the gambling industry, people work 24/7, including weekends, so you never know when people are working or sleeping), but I've found that the ratio of voters registered/contacts is high--one of the fastest growing cities plus a very transient population means a lot of new registrants and change of addresses.

I always prefaced my intros with a "I'm just here to help people" vibe, "Hi, my name is X, I'm a volunteer for the Obama campaign, and we're just going around (a)making sure everyone is registered to vote at their current address or (b)reminding people that the election is on November 4 and making sure people know where their polling location is." (the latter is for after the voter registration deadline is over). So the first impression they get is the "friendly reminder vibe." Then I go into "Have you decided who you're going to support?" persuasion for undecideds/leaners and/or volunteer asks for supporters.

Since it's a very transient and newly Nevadan area, make sure to stress the current address part, as some people think that registrations transfer over from other states and/or old Nevada addresses.

If you're doing voter registration, they've likely targeted a location that's likely to be Obama friendly--so you might not be in too unfriendly areas (politically). You might get sent to the "Alphabets," but in most places, these urban areas are also Obama friendly, so being with the Obama campaign actually affords you a level of credibility and protection.

There's a lot of libertarians and Mormons--likely won't be on your targeted lists, but if you see them, it's more of a "get them away from McCain" then it is a "get them to vote for Obama." Just pretend you're talking to JayDubya to the libertarians and remind the Mormons how bad McCain is with the economy (only relevant because Romney attacked McCain viciously in the Nevada primary on the economy and so it's stuck in their heads).

 

[numble]

Being killed. The heat stroke is fairly unavoidable if you're going to be outside a lot.

And yes, water is good. Sunscreen as well.

Yeah, bring a hat and sunscreen. Wear shorts. It was awful in the summer and I bet it's still awful.

 

[Ether_Snake]

I actually support the concept of the war.

Here's my thing though for one, I agree with going to war only if you go all the way, I don't think you'd have Truman in WW 2 letting Hitler stay in power or some stupid shit like that so why in the 90's do we let this ass hat run all over us after beating him?
Second, because of these stupid sanctions we were having to keep a presence over there to babysit no-fly zones , I viewed this as a possible proper and full exit strategy.

That said, Afghanistan wasn't and still wasn't finished so I disagreed with the timing since we hadn't even accomplished our first and what should have been our primary mission. Further, while I do think Iraq was just a yearly waste of our resources ever so slightly it was not an imminent threat and no such urgency was required. We could have finished in Afghanistan and then if he still wasn't playing along or another dirt bag was there we could have finished Bush Sr's job, or we might have gotten lucky and maybe he'd have been gone who knows?

I in no way support the trumped up charge of WoMD that I always thought was bogus, and I currently think should be criminal, as misleading the public and the world in my opinion should basically be the end of that government right then and there. I do not support the so called occupation or presence of troops there by building permanent bases.

Now that it happened and in every way opposite of how I would have liked to have seen it done I do think we have a responsibility to carry it out to the end no matter how painful for us however.

The current war has been nothing else than getting rid of Iran's #1 enemy, only to put in place a government that is favorable to Iran, and allowing Iran as a result to expand its influence in the region. There was only one country between the US, Israel, and Iran, that didn't truly know the extent of Iraq's military capacity, that could actually be threatened by Iraq; Iran. All of this war has been nothing but an undesired favor to Iran, at the cost of hundreds of billions of dollars. No wonder they really want to attack Iran now. The thing is, will the US even be able to keep its presence in Iraq as intended, or will it end up having to sacrifice its interest due to economic situations at home and the war in Afghanistan?

Cheney and Co. wanted to win two wars at the same time, it was a stated objective, they are unable to win one, and both are clearly unconventional wars to begin with. They have to make a lot of costly concessions to succeed, I'm not sure that they'll get as much as they want out of this in the end, predominantly because of the economic situation at home.

But anyway, on Nov. 4th go vote anyway, regardless of what party you want to vote for. Vote, it's a good sign to yourself that you still care

 

[AniHawk]

With most volunteers (especially newbies) they are going to pair you guys up in two (or 4 if too timid) and one person gets the even side of the street and the other person gets the odd side of the street. So there remains eye contact with another person that can provide a certain amount of safety net.

If you're in Vegas, it'll be a notoriously low contact rate (with the gambling industry, people work 24/7, including weekends, so you never know when people are working or sleeping), but I've found that the ratio of voters registered/contacts is high--one of the fastest growing cities plus a very transient population means a lot of new registrants and change of addresses.

I always prefaced my intros with a "I'm just here to help people" vibe, "Hi, my name is X, I'm a volunteer for the Obama campaign, and we're just going around (a)making sure everyone is registered to vote at their current address or (b)reminding people that the election is on November 4 and making sure people know where their polling location is." (the latter is for after the voter registration deadline is over). So the first impression they get is the "friendly reminder vibe." Then I go into "Have you decided who you're going to support?" persuasion for undecideds/leaners and/or volunteer asks for supporters.

Since it's a very transient and newly Nevadan area, make sure to stress the current address part, as some people think that registrations transfer over from other states and/or old Nevada addresses.

If you're doing voter registration, they've likely targeted a location that's likely to be Obama friendly--so you might not be in too unfriendly areas (politically). You might get sent to the "Alphabets," but in most places, these urban areas are also Obama friendly, so being with the Obama campaign actually affords you a level of credibility and protection.

There's a lot of libertarians and Mormons--likely won't be on your targeted lists, but if you see them, it's more of a "get them away from McCain" then it is a "get them to vote for Obama." Just pretend you're talking to JayDubya to the libertarians and remind the Mormons how bad McCain is with the economy (only relevant because Romney attacked McCain viciously in the Nevada primary on the economy and so it's stuck in their heads).

Wow, awesome man. Thanks for all the advice.

 

[Stoney Mason]

And it was IMO such a non issue that if the country said no to it I'd have been OK. The misleading part is so, so bad. Worst thing IMO of the whole administration. I can actually forgive incompetence during a natural disaster or not agreeing with what the population wants on the economy, but to flat out trumpet a false case to go to war, I do think they should all be up for war crimes, sitting President or not. That was also where I lost respect for Powell as I always thought he seemed like a good guy and was the first black American I thought had a chance of getting elected President. For him to turn around and then criticize what he sold to the world really pissed me off. Can't people just quit anymore when asked to do things that go against their integrity?

I lost a ton of respect for Powell as well. In fact it quite bothers me when people still try to bring him up and ask who he is endorsing as if it matters.

In a weird way, the guy I respect/am fascinated with out of this is bizarrely (in a political sense only) is Cheney. While I think what he did was awful and he lied as much as anybody (more) at least I understand him. At least he is consistent with that he is. He isn't trying to pretend to be something he isn't or decorate it in pretty flowers (ignoring all the destruction of evidence and political backstabbing.) He set out achieve what he wanted and pretty much did. Can any of the rest of the Bush administration honestly say that?

Bush has always been able to get away with this shit because he strikes people as the guy you can "have a beer" with when in all honesty he is really the guy you goof off at work with. Is this really the guy who should have been president Your goof off buddy?

Well I've railed enough on the Bush Administration for the night...

 

[Schlep]

Not sure if this is old...it shows 0 views on NBC. And damn... :lol

http://www.nbc.com/Saturday_Night_Live/video/clips/mccain-approves-open/669582/

 

[The Lamonster]

Not sure if this is old...it shows 0 views on NBC. And damn... :lol

http://www.nbc.com/Saturday_Night_Live/video/clips/mccain-approves-open/669582/

I was hoping SNL would pull through for the dems.

:lol

 

[Rugasuki]

I lost a ton of respect for Powell as well. In fact it quite bothers me when people still try to bring him up and ask who he is endorsing as if it matters.

In a weird way, the guy I respect/am fascinated with out of this is bizarrely (in a political sense only) is Cheney. While I think what he did was awful and he lied as much as anybody (more) at least I understand him. At least he is consistent with that he is. He isn't trying to pretend to be something he isn't or decorate it in pretty flowers (ignoring all the destruction of evidence and political backstabbing.) He set out achieve what he wanted and pretty much did. Can any of the rest of the Bush administration honestly say that?

Bush has always been able to get away with this shit because he strikes people as the guy you can "have a beer" with when in all honesty he is really the guy you goof off at work with. Is this really the guy who should have been president Your goof off buddy?

Well I've railed enough on the Bush Administration for the night...

Watch Frontline's Bush's War for insight into Powell in the run up to the war. It puts him in a pretty positive light. Bush and Cheney cut him out of the loop quickly. The documentary is a great piece of work. Should be a required viewing for anyone with an interest in the Iraq War. PBS has the whole thing viewable online.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/bushswar/

 

[speculawyer]

 

[AniHawk]

Watch Frontline's Bush's War for insight into Powell in the run up to the war. It puts him in a pretty positive light. Bush and Cheney cut him out of the loop quickly. The documentary is a great piece of work. Should be a required viewing for anyone with an interest in the Iraq War. PBS has the whole thing viewable online.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/bushswar/

Yeah, I always thought the story was that Powell believed what the administration told him and that he quit when he found out he'd been used.

 

[PhatSaqs]

Not sure if this is old...it shows 0 views on NBC. And damn... :lol

http://www.nbc.com/Saturday_Night_Live/video/clips/mccain-approves-open/669582/

That was awesome :lol

 

[Cloudy]

Florida Republicans are gearing up to steal another election:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122185985239258235.html

The Obama campaign has said it will spend $40 million in the state. Sen. Obama is fielding a staff more than four times larger here than Sen. McCain's. Sen. Obama has 50 field offices, in addition to those operated by the Democratic Party. Sen. John Kerry, the 2004 Democratic nominee, had 14.

The Obama campaign also says it has registered about 100,000 new voters this year, part of 250,000 new registrants in the state overall, and the majority of them are Democrats.

Now comes the bigger task: making sure inexperienced voters can navigate two new state laws. The first is the so-called "No match, no vote" law, which requires a match between a voter's driver's license or Social Security number and a government database. Critics say database records are riddled with errors.

A second law allows citizens to challenge the legitimacy of fellow voters. Challengers need not prove their accusations. Instead, the challenged voter has two days to justify his right to cast a ballot.

State Republican lawmakers who pushed the law say it will help combat fraud. Democrats call it a vote-suppression measure. "Now why would the legislature make it easier to challenge, instead of, say spending more money on voter education?" said Chuck Lichtman, a Fort Lauderdale attorney. He heads a Democratic effort to put volunteer lawyers in every Florida precinct. Mr. Lichtman says 5,000 lawyers have signed up for the task, up from 3,500 in 2004.

Other battleground states have recently tightened voter-identification laws, but Florida was named "the most hostile state in the nation to new voters" by three national voting-rights groups.

At a recent training seminar in Tampa for about 300 Obama campaign staffers, an election lawyer went over election-law changes that could lead to mass voter challenges. The staff monitors elections across the state. "We're going to be very aggressive this time," said Mr. Schale, who worked in the 2000 recount. "While I'm sitting in some office in Tampa, the staff will be my eyes and ears."

http://www.miamiherald.com/opinion/editorials/story/694122.html

There are many ways to undermine democracy, none more insidious than preventing a citizen from voting.

You would think that after the state's debacle in the 2000 presidential election, where Floridians' votes for president were essentially usurped by the U.S. Supreme Court, the right to vote here would be paramount. Yet, the Florida Legislature sometimes appears more interested in curtailing Floridians' right to vote.

Using the empty argument that it wanted to curb fraudulent voting, the Legislature in 2005 adopted a law that requires a voter's identification to match state files or federal records before voting. If a driver's license, state-identification card or last four digits of a Social Security number don't match, the voter must use a provisional ballot and has two days to prove his or her identity.

The law rightly faced court challenges. But before it was suspended pending the outcome of the court cases, it had removed 14,000 legitimate voters from the rolls. The majority of them were either Hispanic or black Floridians. The main reason was that the state's files were subject to typos and other errors.

Unfortunately, the courts have let the law stand, so Secretary of State Kurt Browning told Florida's election supervisors that the law was back in effect as of Sept. 6.

The no-match law applies when a person registers to vote as well as at the polls. It threatens to keep new voters interested in participating in this historic presidential election from registering before the registration deadline on Oct. 6 simply because of bad record-keeping by the state.

Instances of a person trying to use a fake ID in order to vote are practically nonexistent in Florida and, indeed, in the entire country.

To Florida's disgrace, this law unfairly targets minorities. It should be repealed.

Ugh...

 

[LCGeek]

I lost a ton of respect for Powell as well. In fact it quite bothers me when people still try to bring him up and ask who he is endorsing as if it matters.

In a weird way, the guy I respect/am fascinated with out of this is bizarrely (in a political sense only) is Cheney. While I think what he did was awful and he lied as much as anybody (more) at least I understand him. At least he is consistent with that he is. He isn't trying to pretend to be something he isn't or decorate it in pretty flowers (ignoring all the destruction of evidence and political backstabbing.) He set out achieve what he wanted and pretty much did. Can any of the rest of the Bush administration honestly say that?

Bush has always been able to get away with this shit because he strikes people as the guy you can "have a beer" with when in all honesty he is really the guy you goof off at work with. Is this really the guy who should have been president Your goof off buddy?

Well I've railed enough on the Bush Administration for the night...

It's a good railing.

Cheney will always get a certain level of respect from me, simply put he gets shit done for the neocons and their agenda. Bush Jr to be honest I think is a fool, but is quite aware of it and makes the most with it even indulges it sometime for political or social gain.

The problem with what you said "goof off buddy" is that most americans with that mentality for liking bush don't trust the more sophisticated types. More progressive types need to realize you have to connect with all groups in this country not those who already dispositioned towards your political philosophy. I'll say it again like I usually do kerry was a turn off with how I felt all of the media portrayed him and it wasn't until he grew a pair after the election I realized yeah he was a better vote.