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[Triumph]

I think you're just not reading my posts.


Xisiqomelir: how does what you just said argue against what McCain said?

...because McCain hasn't ever adequately explained how we get to an Iraq that isn't a raging hellhole? I think that's fairly obvious.

 

[backbreaker65]

Here's McCain statement unedited, you be the judge.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFknKVjuyNk

 

[Clevinger]

I have a problem with people going with "bububu he just meant 100 more years like Japan or SK".

The difference, which should be patently obvious, is that active hostilities ceased in the Korean war and WW2. Iraq, on the other hand, is a raging hellhole.

That would be fine with me, as long as American, as long as Americans are not being injured or harmed or wounded or killed.

He's saying he would not be OK with it if it remains a raging hellhole.

I'm disappointed that Obama has resorted to distorting what McCain said when there are so many legitimate things he can criticize him of.

 

[Deus Ex Machina]

McCain just can't get it right

McCain: There are numerous threats to security in Iraq and the future of Iraq. Do you still view Al Qaeda in Iraq as a major threat?
Petraeus: It is still a major threat, though it is certainly not as major a threat as it was say 15 months ago.
McCain: Certainly not an obscure sect of the Shiites overall?
Petraeus: No, no sir.
McCain: Or Sunnis or anybody else then? Al Qaeda continues to try to assert themselves in Mosul, is that correct?

Its so transparent what he's trying to do.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Here's McCain statement unedited, you be the judge.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFknKVjuyNk

So, if Iraq stabilizes, we'll have long-term bases there. And if the carnage continues, we stay to help provide stability. In other words, we're not getting out either way?

 

[siamesedreamer]

um.. no he wasnt. the full quote shows that he is talking about mccain's quotes on youtube.. not his.

Admittedly, you can can see it both ways.

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

Its so transparent what he's trying to do.

One would think that with Al Sadr trying to start a cease-fire agreement, some form of political reconciliation is THE best option for Iraq, no?

 

[electricpirate]

Admittedly, you can can see it both ways.

Obama's Dangling modifiers will lose him this election

(I'm only partially joking, he has this infuriating way of leaving his comments open to very hostile interpretation)

Edit:

Here's McCain statement unedited, you be the judge.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFknKVjuyNk

Ghaleon got it right, "I'd keep american troops in Iraq for a 100 years if they aren't dying"

But how long will you keep them there if they are?

 

[APF]

So, if Iraq stabilizes, we'll have long-term bases there. And if the carnage continues, we stay to help provide stability. In other words, we're not getting out either way?

His point was more, he wouldn't have a problem with a peaceful presence in the country, and overall he doubts many Americans would either. As to whether he believes such a thing is feasible, according to his interview on Charlie Rose I posted earlier, he does not.

Arguing that since he feels we can "win" the war--I guess this means, achieve some sort of political reconciliation that leads to a cessation of militant violence--this means therefore he will agree to a hundred years of war, or endless war, is an enormous stretch IMO. There are other ways to attack him--which I've done / have been suggesting--but this route is a poor choice.

 

[Triumph]

His point was more, he wouldn't have a problem with a peaceful presence in the country, and overall he doubts many Americans would either. As to whether he believes such a thing is feasible, according to his interview on Charlie Rose I posted earlier, he does not.

Arguing that since he feels we can "win" the war--I guess this means, achieve some sort of political reconciliation that leads to a cessation of militant violence--this means therefore he will agree to a hundred years of war, or endless war, is an enormous stretch IMO. There are other ways to attack him--which I've done / have been suggesting--but this route is a poor choice.

I think that the fact that he has no real idea on how to "win" in Iraq and rejects phased withdrawal out of hand makes it a very viable avenue of attack on him... wouldn't you say?

At the same time, using the "100 years" thing IS intellectually dishonest.

 

[Deus Ex Machina]

One would think that with Al Sadr trying to start a cease-fire agreement, some form of political reconciliation is THE best option for Iraq, no?

Al-Sadr threatens to end cease-fire

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080408/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq

BAGHDAD - Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr threatened Tuesday to lift a seven-month freeze on his militia if the Iraqi government does not halt attacks on his followers or set a timetable for a U.S. withdrawal.

It is obvious that this Shiite regime is playing a game at the expense of the U.S. blood and money. Let's stop being part of their game.

 

[syllogism]

Time for Bill Clinton to step down

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensm...lombia_trade_deal_Estoy_a_favor.html#comments

"We need your help to expedite the signing of the Free Trade Agreement (FTA) with the EU is very important to give a clear signal of what the relations between the two countries should be," President Alvaro Uribe said yesterday to the former president of the EU Bill Clinton, during Expogestion 2005.

"I will raise your point when you return to the United States," Clinton replied. "I am in favor of the free trade agreement and it is my hope that we will find the right formula to reach the agreement."

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

Al-Sadr threatens to end cease-fire

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080408/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq



It is obvious that this Shiite regime is playing a game at the expense of the U.S. blood and money. Let's stop being part of their game.

He halted his militia for 7 months!? Damn. Was it really making a difference? If so, then where the was the majority of attacks coming from? Sunnis?

 

[APF]

I think that the fact that he has no real idea on how to "win" in Iraq and rejects phased withdrawal out of hand makes it a very viable avenue of attack on him... wouldn't you say?

I think that, in and of itself, is perfectly legit--but suggesting he's a bloodthirsty warmonger who wants an endless war seems a tad overblown, and as I said: you will get fact-checked by the press this time.

 

[Deus Ex Machina]

He halted his militia for 7 months!? Damn. Was it really making a difference?

No.

If so, then where the was the majority of attacks coming from? Sunnis?

Fractional fighting, shiite against shiite.

Once again you have to question why Nouri Al Malaki, makes no attempt to arrest his fellow shiite, Moqtada Al-Sadr.

 

[electricpirate]

I think that, in and of itself, is perfectly legit--but suggesting he's a bloodthirsty warmonger who wants an endless war seems a tad overblown, and as I said: you will get fact-checked by the press this time.

If he want's to fight till we win, but cannot define what it means to win, then he deserves the label of favoring endless war.

 

[scorcho]

He halted his militia for 7 months!? Damn. Was it really making a difference? If so, then where the was the majority of attacks coming from? Sunnis?

al-Sadr has not had complete operational control over his 'militias' for years. there's little he can do to influence them as a whole, as a large percentage of them have their own motives (oil profits, power) now.

 

[Deus Ex Machina]

McCain just can't get it right

Biden is laying down some ether.

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

al-Sadr has not had complete operational control over his 'militias' for years. there's little he can do to influence them as a whole, as a large percentage of them have their own motives (oil profits, power) now.

So in another word, there's no viable solution to Iraq.

 

[Deus Ex Machina]

So in another word, there's no viable solution to Iraq.

There's no military solution.

 

[Incognito]

Any else of you Obamanauts receive an email about volunteering in North Carolina? I'm seriously thinking of going. Would stay there from April 29th to May 6th.

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

There's no military solution.

Well i was talking politically.

 

[APF]

If he want's to fight till we win, but cannot define what it means to win, then he deserves the label of favoring endless war.

Yet he says we won't be there in 20 years, meaning the war will come to an end. Plus he won't be in the office of the Presidency longer than eight years. This "endless war" line of argumentation is nonsense.

 

[Deus Ex Machina]

Found some new wallpapers.

Their graphical design team is simply marvelous. exceptional.

 

[thekad]

Yet he says we won't be there in 20 years, meaning the war will come to an end. Plus he won't be in the office of the Presidency longer than eight years. This "endless war" line of argumentation is nonsense.

When did McCain say we would not be in Iraq in 20 years? As far as I know, our moral obligation to the Iraqis extends indefinitely, ie 100 years.

 

[APF]

When did McCain say we would not be in Iraq in 20 years? As far as I know, our moral obligation to the Iraqis extends indefinitely, ie 100 years.

Do a search for the Charlie Rose interview I linked to a couple of days ago.

 

[thekad]

Do a search for the Charlie Rose interview I linked to a couple of days ago.

He says nothing of the sort.

 

[bob_arctor]

What did Obama have to say? And any more quotes from McSame?

 

[APF]

He says nothing of the sort.

Uhh

 

[adamsappel]

McCain's statement assumes there is no more violence; Obama's representation of that statement is that McCain will stay in Iraq even with violence.

Has McCain ever said what will precipitate American withdrawal from Iraq? Violence-free? Too much violence?

 

[thekad]

Uhh

So you admit McCain has never said we would be out of Iraq in 20 years? So what have you guys been arguing about for the past 3 pages?

 

[APF]

Here's that quote:

ROSE: Do you think that this — Korea, South Korea is an analogy of where Iraq might be, not in terms of their economic success but in terms of an American presence over the next, say, 20, 25 years, that we will have a significant amount of troops there?

MCCAIN: I don’t think so.

ROSE: Even if there are no casualties?

MCCAIN: No. But I can see an American presence for a while. But eventually I think because of the nature of the society in Iraq and the religious aspects of it that America eventually withdraws.

 

[CowboyAstronaut]

Obama's constant mispresentation of McCain's statement is a perfect example of old school politics. To a mother fucking T.

You mean kinda like how McCain and George Bush misrepresented what Obama said about Pakistan?

He outright said that Obama wanted to bomb our ally Pakistan. So... lets not act like McCain is not guilty of this. Has already misrepresented Obama's positions.

 

[Clevinger]

You mean kinda like how McCain and George Bush misrepresented what Obama said about Pakistan?

He outright said that Obama wanted to bomb our ally Pakistan. So... lets not act like McCain is not guilty of this. Has already misrepresented Obama's positions.

McCain is guilty of quite a lot, but that doesn't excuse what Obama's done here. He's much better than this bullshit.

 

[Incognito]

It's not a misrepresentation because McCain never fully explains what the hell he's actually talking about. Add to the fact that he's repeated numerous times and you have election gold. Karma is a bitch. I hope his quote is recycled 24x7 until November.

 

[thekad]

Here's that quote:

McCain thinks we will "win" the war in 20 years, possibly. Congratulations, you proved me wrong!

But seriously, where does McCain say we will be out of Iraq in 20 years.

 

[typhonsentra]

Uhh

I looked it up, got a transcript. Isn't the one who came up with that number Charlie? McCain didn't commit to anything specific from what I read.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

McCain thinks we will "win" the war in 20 years, possibly. Congratulations, you proved me wrong!

But seriously, where does McCain say we will be out of Iraq in 20 years.

He doesn't.

This quote that both Hillary and Obama have jumped on is plain as day. McCain literally said "American's won't have a problem if we are in Iraq for 100 years."

You can't spin that kind of military stupidity. He has my respect for being a veteran, and being a POW on top of that, but he also knows absolutely nothing about the intricacies. Such stupidity is what got us into Iraq in the first place.

I say let this "misrepresentation" bury McCain.

 

[Tamanon]

For the record, if this Colombia story has legs about Bill supporting the Free Trade Agreement and lobbying for it.....that's not going to be good for Clinton in Pennsylvania.

 

[electricpirate]

Here's that quote:

Bush thought the war would be over in a year, and McCain thinks it will be over before 25 years. McCain's desire to have the war be over in 25 doesn't mean his policies are designed to do that. He still doesn't actually seem to have a clear path to winning, and he doesn't have a clear definition of what winning is.

The quote misses the crux of the issue, What happens if there are still american casualties in say, another 7 years, and Iraq is still a cluster fuck, and the politics there haven't changed, will McCain still be saying that we have to "Get the Job done?" That is endless war.

 

[APF]

What part of "no" and "I don't think so" do you guys not understand? "Will we be there in 20 years?" "No." "Even if there are no casualties?" "I don't think so." Seriously guys, you're allowing your need to perpetuate this narrative cloud the reality in front of you.

 

[bob_arctor]

What horror is this? He slings poison-tipped arrows from the comfort of his lofty perch and still claims himself without a quiver?

Yeah, karma is indeed a bitch.

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

Hai, guys. So when is the U.S. going to be repaid for the war in Iraq? Where's that oil, Iraq? :lol

 

[Triumph]

Any else of you Obamanauts receive an email about volunteering in North Carolina? I'm seriously thinking of going. Would stay there from April 29th to May 6th.

Come to coastal Wilmington, that's where I am. Our local campaign HQ is a funky art studio that was loaned to the campaign, it's pretty awesome.

 

[maynerd]

Biden is laying down some ether.

what he say?

 

[Thunder Monkey]

What part of "no" and "I don't think so" do you guys not understand? "Will we be there in 20 years?" "No." "Even if there are no casualties?" "I don't think so." Seriously guys, you're allowing your need to perpetuate this narrative cloud the reality in front of you.

Well for one thing McCain won't have any say on whether or not we are in Iraq for the next 20 years.

If he wins he'll have the chance to say whether or not we are there for another four to eight years. And it sure as hell doesn't seem like he wants our military to leave.

The saddest thing about all of this? The country was already ethnically cleansed, right under our sniffers, and we couldn't stop it.

For America to have any chance at all of saving face, saving ourselves, we need to be out of Iraq yesterday. McCain will keep us there for as long as it's profitable for the few corporations that have lobbyists on his campaign.

Take his own words, and bury him. Make him as unelectable as Hillary has tried to make Obama. Who knows, where Hillary has failed, maybe Obama will succeed, and McCain will be less of a thought come November then Bush is today.

 

[thekad]

What part of "no" and "I don't think so" do you guys not understand? "Will we be there in 20 years?" "No." "Even if there are no casualties?" "I don't think so." Seriously guys, you're allowing your need to perpetuate this narrative cloud the reality in front of you.

What are you reading? "We will be there for 20 years?" McCain responds, "I don't think so."

It is plain as day. You know just as well as I that McCain supports an indefinite war (or occupation, whatever). Whether it happens to be 20 years or 100 years, whether McCain thinks it may be 20 years or 100 years, the fact remains that McCain supports an indefinite obligation to Iraq.

Got it?

 

[XxenobladerxX]

What the fuck is this lady raveing on about?

 

[belvedere]

So has anyone caught McCain's Biography Tour?

How often did he bring up Keating Five?

 

[Triumph]

While there's plenty of reasons to dislike Joe Biden, he's great at being an asshole. Case in point, he asked Crocker point blank if it would be better for American security interests to eliminate Al-Qaeda in Afghanistan/Pakistan (you know, where they ARE) or in Iraq. Crocker tried to waffle but Joe pinned him down and guess what? The US Ambassador to Iraq just admitted in a Senate committee hearing that it would serve American security interests better to go after Al-Qaeda in Afghanistan/Pakistan than in Iraq. Hilarious.