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[backbreaker65]

holy shit I just heard about the Tiger Woods comment. Who fucking raised this guy?

Sometimes I feel like I'm taking crazy-pills...

Its nothing, I call him Tiger Woods all the time. A young up start wreaking havoc on the establishment. Next they will be asking him what kind of chicken he wants in the white house, masters reference.

 

[Tamanon]

Besides, I'd prefer Tiger Woods as president over McCain anyways.

 

[Stinkles]

Besides, I'd prefer Tiger Woods as president over McCain anyways.

If Obama is Tiger Woods, then McCain must surely be...

 

[adamsappel]

Hai, guys. So when is the U.S. going to be repaid for the war in Iraq? Where's that oil, Iraq? :lol

Nightline: Project Iraq
April 23, 2003 Wednesday
Source: ABC News

TED KOPPEL
(Off Camera) Our guest tonight is ANDREW NATSIOS, administrator of the Agency for International Development, the lead agency that is responsible for rebuilding the infrastructure of Iraq. Mr. Natsios was manager of Boston's "Big Dig," the largest public works project in American history. He is also a veteran of Desert Storm. He joins us here in our Washington studios. First of all, let me say that there is no evidence that anything illegal has been done or even anything improper. The question is, was it smart to exclude all non-American companies?

ANDREW NATSIOS
Well, first, that's Federal law. Federal statute requires that all Federal agencies only allow American companies to bid under the Federal acquisition statute.

TED KOPPEL
(Off Camera) Actually, obviously, I have to defer to your expertise, but I'm not sure that that is true of all Federal statutes. The Army Corps of Engineers is not required to, is it?

ANDREW NATSIOS
Well, I think it is, but they can waive it. And I can waive it. And I did waive it in January for subcontracts. But the problem is, when we started this process, it was January. The President had not decide to go to war. If we had gone internationally to a big bidding process, it would've sent a huge message the decision had already been made when what we were doing was prudent contingency planning for what might happen. There was some likelihood it would happen, but a decision hadn't been made. So, we did do competition. It was limited competition. It's a procedure, let me just say, it's a procedure we used in Bosnia in the Clinton years, that's where we got this from. It was done to speed up the reconstruction of Bosnia. We also did it in Afghanistan and now we're doing for a third time in ten years in Iraq. And no one raised complaints about this before, I might add.

TED KOPPEL
(Off Camera) Well, it's a, I think you'll agree, this is a much bigger project than any that's been talked about. Indeed, I understand that more money is expected to be spent on this than was spent on the entire Marshall Plan for the rebuilding of Europe after World War II.

ANDREW NATSIOS
No, no. This doesn't even compare remotely with the size of the Marshall Plan.

TED KOPPEL
(Off Camera) The Marshall Plan was $97 billion.

ANDREW NATSIOS
This is 1.7 billion.

TED KOPPEL
(Off Camera) All right, this is the first. I mean, when you talk about 1.7, you're not suggesting that the rebuilding of Iraq is gonna be done for $1.7 billion?

ANDREW NATSIOS
Well, in terms of the American taxpayers contribution, I do, this is it for the US. The rest of the rebuilding of Iraq will be done by other countries who have already made pledges, Britain, Germany, Norway, Japan, Canada, and Iraqi oil revenues, eventually in several years, when it's up and running and there's a new government that's been democratically elected, will finish the job with their own revenues. They're going to get in $20 billion a year in oil revenues. But the American part of this will be 1.7 billion. We have no plans for any further-on funding for this.

TED KOPPEL
(Off Camera) Let me go back to a point you were making a moment ago, namely, you can only really begin on this process in January. The Army began planning for this war, in some detail, last June, ten months ago. Why could you not on a contingency basis have said, we don't know if we're going war, there's a possibility we'll be going war, everyone's been thinking we'll be going to war for many months now, put out the bids and get some competitive bidding going on a global basis or even get some major competitive bidding here in the United States. If it happens, it happens and we're ready. If it doesn't, we don't have to go ahead with these projects.

ANDREW NATSIOS
Sure. We were plan on this last September and we spent the fall working with other domestic Federal agencies and the State Department and the Treasury Department and the National Security Council and MOB on an interagency agreement as to who would do that what. By October/November, that had been set. We began working on the scopes of work which actually take a long time to write because you're reconstructing large parts of a whole country, and by January they were ready to be bid. And we got approval in January to go out and do this truncated shorter process that takes about six weeks or two months. So, the timing actually goes back to September, but you don't just go out to bid, you have to have a document to bid.

TED KOPPEL
(Off Camera) Gotcha. Why it was not more competitive and why it ends up being cost plus, let's just take a quick break and when we come back, perhaps you'll address those two questions. Back in a moment. commercial break

TED KOPPEL
(Off Camera) And we're back once again with ANDREW NATSIOS, administrator for the Agency for International Development. I want to be sure that I understood you correctly. You're saying the, the top cost for the US taxpayer will be $1.7 billion. No more than that?

ANDREW NATSIOS
For the reconstruction. And then there's 700 million in the supplemental budget for humanitarian relief, which we don't competitively bid 'cause it's charities that get that money.

TED KOPPEL
(Off Camera) I understand. But as far as reconstruction goes, the American taxpayer will not be hit for more than $1.7 billion no matter how long the process takes?

ANDREW NATSIOS
That is our plan and that is our intention. And these figures, outlandish figures I've seen, I have to say, there's a little bit of hoopla involved in this.

TED KOPPEL
(Off Camera) If you were going do it again, would you do it the same way? In other words, as I said at the outset, nothing improper here, certainly nothing illegal here. But there is just a sense that there was more secrecy than was perhaps necessary and that you didn't, you didn't put it out to enough companies to get any really competitive bidding going.

ANDREW NATSIOS
Well, actually, we did. This is 680 million, the largest contract of the 1.7 billion is for reconstruction, physical infrastructure. And the only kinds of companies that can manage that kind of money over a year or two, that's the length of time they have to complete these tasks, are only a few, a handful of companies in the whole world have the capacity to spend that much money responsibly, carefully, in a short period of time. And so, we went to the largest and best construction and engineering companies in the country that have experience. Bechtel, for example, has 1,000 employees in the Middle East already. They're in Umm Qasr, we just awarded the contract last Thursday, they're in the port right now, and they're putting dredging equipment, it's on the way to begin dredging the port. We needed to move quickly in order to get this work done. I might also add, this affects people's lives. 100,000 Iraqi children died needlessly last year. Very high child mortality rates, higher in Iraq than in India. The reason for that is dirty water and very bad sewage treatment. Basically, the two big rivers, the Tigris and Euphrates, are open sewers. And if we don't repair that, we can't lower these terrible child mortality rates. So, I think it's important that people understand the context we're working in, that people's lives are at stake, this not just a little road repair here.

TED KOPPEL
(Off Camera) You know better than most because you were actively involved in the project, that Bechtel is under severe examination. Indeed, criminal action is being considered against Bechtel for their operations in the "Big Dig" in Boston. It is charged that they had excessive charges of over a billion dollars here. Doesn't that give you some pause in going to Bechtel? I realize they may be one of the only ones in country who can do it, but surely there are one or two others.

ANDREW NATSIOS
Well, I ran the "Big Dig" after the scandals took place and we fired my predecessor and the governor asked me to clean up the mess. So, I'm very familiar with the project. Massachusetts is a highly politicized atmosphere, and I'm not sure I'd believe all the headlines in Massachusetts, in terms of what the reality was. But, Bechtel did, in the final last best offer for these competitive bids, seven companies, the biggest in the country, were asked to bid. They had the highest quality rating, highest score, for the technical requirements of the project and the lowest price. That is the ideal for Federal contracting. We almost never get it that good, where we have the highest score for the technical and engineering side of it and the lowest price of the bids that were made.

TED KOPPEL
(Off Camera) Explain how that works with the lowest price because I don't quite understand, they couldn't make a bid because they don't yet know what it's gonna cost, so how, are they gonna be held to a particular sum here?

ANDREW NATSIOS
Oh, sure. That is what, what we do. . .

TED KOPPEL
(Off Camera) If it's cost plus, in other words, if they come back to you in another six months or in another year and say, gee, you know, we gave you best estimate we could but here's what it ended up costing and it ended up costing double what we said it was gonna cost.

ANDREW NATSIOS
Oh, no, no, we have, that's the amount of money we have to spend. We're gonna do less if it costs more than that, because we have an appropriation, we're gonna go within the limits of the appropriation.

TED KOPPEL
(Off Camera) But what you are saying is, maybe, maybe fewer tasks will be accomplished. The amount of money, however, is gonna be the same?

ANDREW NATSIOS
That's correct. 1.7 billion is the limit on reconstruction for Iraq. It's a large amount of money but, compared to other emergencies around the world. But in terms of the amount of money needed to reconstruct the country, it's a relatively small amount.

TED KOPPEL
(Off Camera) Mr. Natsios, I thank you. It was good of to you come back.

ANDREW NATSIOS
Thank you very much.

TED KOPPEL
(Off Camera) I'll be back with tonight's status report on Iraq.

I remember watching this the night it aired. Just illustrates how the administration never thought Iraq was going to be anything but huzzahs and profits.

 

[siamesedreamer]

I remember watching this the night it aired. Just illustrates how the administration never thought Iraq was going to be anything but huzzahs and profits.

Yep...

 

[Tamanon]

BTW, this is the way political contributions should be done and used!

http://www.donorschoose.org/donors/leadershipboard.html?category=25

And of course Obama is crushing the opposition there also.

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol at Dan Abrams face after playing that clip of Rosie O' Donnel talking about gray hair on her...well...yeah.

 

[schuelma]

Hillary campaign admits that Bill is in favor of the Columbia deal :lol :lol


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080409/ap_on_el_pr/clinton_trade

 

[Smiles and Cries]

They better hope Tiger Woods loses the Masters this week.

what the hell was that suppose to mean anyway?

 

[mckmas8808]

What part of "no" and "I don't think so" do you guys not understand? "Will we be there in 20 years?" "No." "Even if there are no casualties?" "I don't think so." Seriously guys, you're allowing your need to perpetuate this narrative cloud the reality in front of you.

So why did he say he'd like us to be there for 100 years?

 

[Smiles and Cries]

If Obama is Tiger Woods, then McCain must surely be...

Poopdeck Pappy? (Popeye's 99-year-old long-lost father)

 

[XxenobladerxX]

They better hope Tiger Woods loses the Masters this week.

what the hell was that suppose to mean anyway?

Hes calling Obama white.

 

[Boogie]

Awesome conversation/debate between Andrew Sullivan and Christopher Hitchens about Obama and Hillary (and McCain). Very enlightening (if not a Hillary bash fest).


Must watch if you're not a retarded chupacabra.


PART 1
PART 2
PART 3
PART 4
PART 5
PART 6

Ewww, Hitchens. Should I really click?

 

[Xdrive05]

Ewww, Hitchens. Should I really click?

You know you want to!

Spoiler

seriously, this is a very good back and forth. Everyone should see it. If nothing else, this is a well conducted, intelligent TV program. A rarity in these times.

 

[scorcho]

stolen from TPM, but a really good analysis of the original 100-year quote - http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/hendrikhertzberg/2008/01/a-hundred-years.html

But what the context shows, I think, is that yanking that sound bite out of context isn’t really all that unfair. McCain's wants to stay in Iraq until no more Americans are getting killed, no matter how long it takes and how many Americans get killed achieving that goal—that is, the goal of not getting any more Americans killed. And once that goal is achieved, we'll stay.

He'll see your fifty years and raise you fifty. But the cards are blank.

in more news, our McCain made another Sunni-Shiite gaffe, illustrating once again his awesome grasp of the enemy - http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/2008/04/08/mccain_facts/index.html

For those who can't watch clips online, McCain asks Petraeus, "Do you still view al-Qaida in Iraq as a major threat?" The general responded, "It is still a major threat, though it is certainly not as major a threat as it was, say, 15 months ago." McCain said, "Certainly not an obscure sect of the Shiites all overall?" Petraeus answered, "No," and McCain quickly added, "Or Sunnis or anybody else."

 

[The Lamonster]

You know you want to!

Spoiler

seriously, this is a very good back and forth. Everyone should see it. If nothing else, this is a well conducted, intelligent TV program. A rarity in these times.

I like how Russert didn't interrupt them and just let them go without interference.

 

[scorcho]

I like how Russert didn't interrupt them and just let them go without interference.

the first time i've think i've ever seen Russert connected with substance.

 

[Incognito]

Come to coastal Wilmington, that's where I am. Our local campaign HQ is a funky art studio that was loaned to the campaign, it's pretty awesome.

Sweet. I'll see what I can do.

 

[Tamanon]

Wait, I thought Triumph was going to be volunteering for Nader?

I should go down to the Hickory office this week to see its setup.

 

[APF]

stolen from TPM, but a really good analysis of the original 100-year quote - http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/hendrikhertzberg/2008/01/a-hundred-years.html

Except, as I've already posted him saying, that too is an unfair characterization of what he believes will happen. Guys, stop trying to justify lying about this--it helps no one.


Edit: Oh, and BTW to my friends at The New Yorker site: either indent paragraphs or margin them--don't do both; it's so nauseatingly faux-pretentious it makes my eyes hurt.

 

[mashoutposse]

Except, as I've already posted him saying, that too is an unfair characterization of what he believes will happen. Guys, stop trying to justify lying about this--it helps no one.

"Staying until we can maintain a casualty-free American presence" is the exact same thing as "Staying until we win." It's not a justification, it's the truth.

 

[Incognito]

NYT mag on Chris Matthews

Some excerpts:

"Did you get a load of Lou Rawls's wife?" Matthews said as he left the spin room. Apparently the Rev. Jesse Jackson was introducing the widow of the R&B singer at the media center. "She was an absolute knockout," Matthews declared. It's a common Matthews designation. The actress Kerry Washington was also a "total knockout," according to Matthews, who by 1 a.m. had repaired to the bar of the Cleveland Ritz-Carlton. He was sipping a Diet Coke and holding court for a cluster of network and political types, as well as for a procession of random glad-handers that included, wouldn't you know it, Kerry Washington herself. Washington played Ray Charles's wife in the movie "Ray" and Kay Amin in the "Last King of Scotland." She is a big Obama supporter and was in town for the debate; more to the point, she said she likes "Hard-ball." Matthews grabbed her hand, and Phil Griffin, the head of MSNBC who was seated across the table, vowed to get her on the show.

"I know why he wants you on," Matthews said to Washington while looking at Griffin. At which point Matthews did something he rarely does. He paused. He seemed actually to be considering what he was about to say. He might even have been editing himself, which is anything but a natural act for him. He was grimacing. I imagined a little superego hamster racing against a speeding treadmill inside Matthews's skull, until the superego hamster was overrun and the pause ended.

"He wants you on because you're beautiful," Matthews said. "And because you’re black." He handed Washington a business card and told her to call anytime "if you ever want to hang out with Chris Matthews."

# Yet for as basic as he has become to the political and media furniture, Matthews is anything but secure. He is of the moment, but, at 62, also something of a throwback -- to an era of politics set in the ethnic Democratic wards of the '60s and the O'Neill-Reagan battles of the '80s. And he is a product of an aging era of cable news, the late-'90s, when "Hardball" started and Matthews made his name as a battering critic of Bill Clinton during the Monica saga.
Cable political coverage has changed, however, and so has the sensibility that viewers -- particularly young ones -- expect from it. Mat-thews's bombast is radically at odds with the wry, antipolitical style fashioned by Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert or the cutting and finely tuned cynicism of Matthews's MSNBC co-worker Keith Olbermann. These hosts betray none of the reverence for politics or the rituals of Washington that Matthews does. On the contrary, they appeal to the eye-rolling tendencies of a cooler, highly educated urban cohort of the electorate that mostly dismisses an exuberant political animal like Matthews as annoyingly antiquated, like the ranting uncle at the Thanksgiving table whom the kids have learned to tune out.

Matthews's contract expires next year, and NBC officials clearly would like to renew it for considerably less than the $5 million a year he is making now. Whether it's a formal talking point or not, NBC officials seem bent on conveying the message that they could get the same ratings, or better ones, for considerably less money.

By the way, have you figured me out yet?" Matthews said at the end of another phone conversation the following day. "You gotta under-stand, it's all complicated. It's not like Tim." Tim -- as in Russert, the inquisitive jackhammer host of "Meet the Press" -- is a particular obsession of Matthews's. Matthews craves Russert's approval like that of an older brother. He is often solicitous.

A number of people I spoke with at NBC said that Russert can be disdainful of Matthews, whose act he often sees as clownish. They also told me that Russert believes Matthews is something of a loose cannon who brings him undue headaches in his capacity as NBC's Washing-ton bureau chief.

# Friends say Matthews is wary of another up-and-comer, David Gregory, who last month was given a show at 6 o'clock, between airings of "Hardball." It is a common view around NBC that Gregory is trying out as a possible replacement for Matthews.

# According to people at NBC, Matthews has not been shy in voicing his resentment of Olbermann. Nor, according to network sources, has Olbermann bothered to hide his low regard for Matthews, although when I spoke to him, Olbermann denied any personal animosity toward Matthews and told me that he appreciates his "John Madden-like enthusiasm for politics."

Later, I talked to Matthews about his TV franchise. He's clearly proud of it, but he also seems restless. Friends who have known him a long time say he worries that "the suits" at NBC want him out. He has been openly contemplating "the second act" in a career that has already featured several.

"I have a lot of options," Matthews told me. "I'm a free man starting next June." There has been long-running speculation that Matthews could be a candidate to replace Bob Schieffer, whenever he retires, as the host of CBS's Sunday morning show "Face the Nation."

Rest at link.

 

[Dahellisdat]

Except, as I've already posted him saying, that too is an unfair characterization of what he believes will happen. Guys, stop trying to justify lying about this--it helps no one.

It helps everybody but you. Where's your brain at man?

 

[Tamanon]

Weird, him and Olbermann usually have a good vibe going between them during election coverage. I'm surprised there's any animosity there.

 

[Clevinger]

"I know why he wants you on," Matthews said to Washington while looking at Griffin. At which point Matthews did something he rarely does. He paused. He seemed actually to be considering what he was about to say. He might even have been editing himself, which is anything but a natural act for him. He was grimacing. I imagined a little superego hamster racing against a speeding treadmill inside Matthews's skull, until the superego hamster was overrun and the pause ended.

"He wants you on because you're beautiful," Matthews said. "And because you’re black." He handed Washington a business card and told her to call anytime "if you ever want to hang out with Chris Matthews."

:lol

 

[Frank the Great]

mathews has good taste. kerry washington is fucking banging

 

[Smiles and Cries]

If I was with kerry washington i'd be banging

fixed

 

[APF]

"Staying until we can maintain a casualty-free American presence" is the exact same thing as "Staying until we win." It's not a justification, it's the truth.

But less than infinity, or 100 years, or 20 years, or even a maximum of eight years of a McCain Presidency. By making such a disingenuous and distorted argument, you're not arguing the truth--you're trying to justify a lie.

Argue he doesn't have a good conception of the sociopolitical situation, or that his goals are unrealistic and impossible, that we're beyond the point where we're doing any meaningful help. But don't lie because it's easier to damage him with lies than nuanced arguments. Which candidate are you guys supporting again? The hope and change one or the divisive do anything to win one?

 

[scorcho]

so APF, you're saying this observation -

McCain's wants to stay in Iraq until no more Americans are getting killed, no matter how long it takes and how many Americans get killed achieving that goal—that is, the goal of not getting any more Americans killed. And once that goal is achieved, we'll stay.

is an unfair characterization?

and whether i support Obama or not has zero bearing on what i feel about McCain or his views on foreign policy

 

[APF]

In other news:

Obama supporter attempts Swift Boating of McCain, implies fighter pilots are inhuman killing machines unmoved by the cost in human lives their mechanical bloodlust demands (also, lasers in 'Nam):

Obama-Backing Senator Attacks McCain's War Experience

In the Charleston Gazette Sunday, Sen. Jay Rockefeller, D-WV, who has endorsed Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., said that Sen. John McCain "has a temper" and, according to the story, "believes McCain has become insensitive to many human issues.

"McCain was a fighter pilot, who dropped laser-guided missiles from 35,000 feet. He was long gone when they hit. What happened when they [the missiles] get to the ground? He doesn't know. You have to care about the lives of people. McCain never gets into those issues."

A McCain campaign surrogate, Marine Lt. Col. Orson Swindle (Ret.), said that "Senator Rockefeller's statement is an insult to all the men and women who are serving or have served in America's military. Had Senator Rockefeller served himself, he would appreciate and understand that most who have been to war emerge with a much deeper concern for humanity than they otherwise might. If he knew what he was talking about, he would know that John McCain wasn't dropping laser-guided missiles at 35,000 feet in 1967. Barack Obama has a responsibility to denounce Senator Rockefeller's smear against John McCain's character and military record. The question remains: Does Senator Obama have the courage to stand up and hold himself to the principles of 'new politics' he outlined in his book, "The Audacity of Hope?"

Brilliant move. Luckily the Obama campaign can always fall back on their, "I don't think anyone cares who Jay Rockefeller is" line.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/04/obama-backing-s.html

 

[mckmas8808]

Weird, him and Olbermann usually have a good vibe going between them during election coverage. I'm surprised there's any animosity there.

Yeah I know right. In a way it's sorta BS to hear that. I don't like to hear that they don't like each others job performance.

I like both of them. :/

 

[APF]

Bonus article:

Obama supporter Oprah takes a big dive
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0408/9427.html

 

[reilo]

Bonus article:

Obama supporter Oprah takes a big dive
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0408/9427.html

So, you are claiming, that Oprah's endorsement for Obama had an impact on her popularity?

Talk about cause does not equal relation.

 

[Triumph]

I could see how you'd think McCain would have a very nuanced view on the war, APF. What with him confusing Sunnis and Shiites all the time. Very nuanced, that.

 

[APF]

I didn't say he wasn't old.




reilo: you're saying this in a forum where people talk about their dicks getting hard when they see a fractional bump in daily poll results.

 

[harSon]

Yup, the very same forum where people jack off to trolling and negative Obama news.

 

[Hitokage]

I find it odd how one can reference Tiger Woods in a belittling fashion. I mean, he DOES know what Woods does for a living, right?

 

[APF]

It could be that Americans just really find lesbian white girls dancing much more compelling nowadays.


edit: *not* a reply to Hitokage

 

[reilo]

I find it odd how one can reference Tiger Woods in a belittling fashion.

Uhm, this is the GOP we are talking about.

APF: What does that have to do with the Oprah article?

 

[Clevinger]

So, you are claiming, that Oprah's endorsement for Obama had an impact on her popularity?

Talk about cause does not equal relation.

He's not claiming it, the article is saying it's one possibility. Which isn't that big of a stretch. I'm guessing a lot of Oprah's viewers are Hillary supporters.

 

[APF]

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video_log/2008/04/hillary_clinton_on_ellen_1.html

 

[adamsappel]

Brilliant move. Luckily the Obama campaign can always fall back on their, "I don't think anyone cares who Jay Rockefeller is" line.

Hell, I'm from West Virginia and I don't care about Jay Rockefeller. Boneheaded statement, though despite the inaccuracy of the bombs McCain dropped (probably on old women and children, amirite?), isn't entirely wrong about fighter pilots sometimes being nonchalant about the casualties they inflict. There can be a detachment there.

I'd personally stay far away from criticism of McCain's war record, though I do wonder if 8 years in a Vietcong prison, being isolated, tortured and tempted by early release wouldn't drive someone batshit fucking insane, at least for some period of time.

 

[mckmas8808]

mathews has good taste. kerry washington is fucking banging

Yep.

 

[Hitokage]

edit: *not* a reply to Hitokage

:lol

 

[adamsappel]

He's not claiming it, the article is saying it's one possibility. Which isn't that big of a stretch. I'm guessing a lot of Oprah's viewers are Hillary supporters.

Isn't Oprah also a member of Wright's/Obama's church? I think I read that somewhere, though I don't know if it was anywhere credible. And I agree that Oprah's audience of older women probably skewed towards Hillary to begin with. Is anyone saying Obama has suffered from the endorsement, or just her?

 

[mckmas8808]

I find it odd how one can reference Tiger Woods in a belittling fashion. I mean, he DOES know what Woods does for a living, right?

Which leads me to believe it was a comment based around his race. Because ummm.....Tiger Woods is the best golfer in the game.

Making Obama Tiger, would mean McCain would be Phil Mickelson. ewwww......

 

[Tamanon]

Isn't Oprah also a member of Wright's/Obama's church? I think I read that somewhere, though I don't know if it was anywhere credible. And I agree that Oprah's audience of older women probably skewed towards Hillary to begin with. Is anyone saying Obama has suffered from the endorsement, or just her?

I don't see any way that Obama could've suffered from the endorsement.

 

[Tamanon]

You can have your charismatic superstar athlete who revived a dying game and gave it new life, thus becoming the most popular modern athlete....we have McCain!

 

[Triumph]

Isn't Oprah also a member of Wright's/Obama's church? I think I read that somewhere, though I don't know if it was anywhere credible. And I agree that Oprah's audience of older women probably skewed towards Hillary to begin with. Is anyone saying Obama has suffered from the endorsement, or just her?

I'm fairly certain that she's not a member, but it has been confirmed that she's attended services.

 

[Mandark]

http://www.johnmccain.com/involving/petition.aspx?guid=b78a8ed9-4c5e-4465-bae1-3df01c3b2bed

The American people deserve the truth from their leaders. Doing the right thing in the heat of a political campaign is not always the easiest thing. But when 4,000 Americans have given their lives so that America does not suffer the worst consequences of our failure in Iraq, it is a necessary thing. In such a grave matter, we must put the nation’s interests before our own ambitions.

My opponents’ calls for an immediate withdraw, regardless of the consequences, is a reckless and dangerous move that would threaten the long term security of our country. Leadership is not about bowing to the political pressures, it is about thinking through the consequences and having the experience and judgment to make the tough decisions.

Senators Clinton and Obama will surely echo the sentiments of their extreme liberal supporters and call for a pre-emptive withdrawal from Iraq. The American people deserve better. I encourage both candidates to move beyond empty and destructive rhetoric and elevate the debate to a level that the country deserves. There are tough decisions ahead and America deserves leaders that are up to the challenge.

As president, I will ensure that our troops come home victorious in this war that is part of the larger struggle against radical Islamic extremism and will continue to make keeping our nation secure my highest priority.

Show your support by signing the petition on the right today.

It's too bad there's no tracking of groups, or GAF could compete for the most signatures.

 

[mckmas8808]

You can have your charismatic superstar athlete who revived a dying game and gave it new life, thus becoming the most popular modern athlete....we have McCain!

:lol :lol :lol