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[User 10639]

Does Obama have a problem with gay voters?

Why? What did he say?

 

[XxenobladerxX]

Why? What did he say?

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0408/9503.html

 

[User 10639]

He said on Hardball he's not for gay marriage but for equal rights.

Separate but equal hurrr

 

[XxenobladerxX]

He said on Hardball he's not for gay marriage but for equal rights.

Obama believes in civil unions,just like Hillary.

 

[Tamanon]

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0408/9503.html

Oh, we're still discussing that thing? It was blown out of proportion because he didn't do an interview, considering he doesn't normally do specialty press anyways.

 

[The Lamonster]

Separate but equal hurrr

That's a good point - but the counter would be that marriage is a religious thing. The religion says it's between a man and a woman. It's easier to change the law than to change a religion. And it's not very easy to even change a law.

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

That's a good point - but the counter would be that marriage is a religious thing. The religion says it's between a man and a woman. It's easier to change the law than to change a religion. And it's not very easy to even change a law.

Equal rights as in civil unions. Yeah. Why not just come out and say you do or you don't support gay marriage?

 

[Tamanon]

Equal rights as in civil unions. Yeah. Why not just come out and say you do or you don't support gay marriage?

Um, he has flat out said he does not support gay marriage.

 

[siamesedreamer]

Huffpo's Mayhill Fowler has more from Obama's remarks at a San Francisco fundraiser Sunday, and they include an attempt to explain the resentment in small-town Pennsylvania that won't be appreciated by some of the people whose votes Obama's seeking:

You go into these small towns in Pennsylvania and, like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them...And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not.

And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.

Politico

 

[reilo]

Politico

Typical siamesedreamer fashion to quote the wrong part. The previous paragraph puts the entire thing into context. Nice try.

 

[Tamanon]

Clumsily phrased, but what's the problem there? People constantly look for scapegoats, that's nothing new.

Actually Reilo: Politico's Dem blog is the one that quotes it that way. And people say he's biased!

 

[Deku]

Since when is a political party that usurped power through military conflict and is not a recognized sovereign for any state, a nation?

Hamas is as much a nation as the Canadian Conservative party is a nation, and at least the conservatives can claim to be the recognized sovereign of Canada, unlike Hamas for Palestinians.

Lots of military juntas installed through revolution/coup-detat exist on this planet and countries have to deal with them on some diplomatic level. In some cases they are tacistly supported by the united states and the USA is the first country to recognize them. har har har.

Just because this is an islamist junta does not make it a special case.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

Politico

And?

He's right.

You see the same stuff here in Kansas. He's not damning them because of that, he's trying to get Californians to see the world from their viewpoint.

 

[User 10639]

That's a good point - but the counter would be that marriage is a religious thing. The religion says it's between a man and a woman. It's easier to change the law than to change a religion. And it's not very easy to even change a law.

Then why were state constitutions being amended to define marriage as being between a man and a woman? If marriage is solely a religious thing, then it shouldn't have any status under the law, and it can be like any other kooky religious practice. If it does, then discrimination should not be allowable.

Gotta get those tax breaks, though...

 

[GhaleonEB]

Politico

What he's saying actually makes perfect sense. Assuming you read the previous paragraph.

 

[Atrus]

Yikes.

Yeah, that's kinda scary talk right there, especially if your main point is that Hamas supports killings.....uh.....

My complaint was about Hamas randomly targeting civilians and the indoctrination of Palestinian children.

You can let the enemy play to your own fears about harming civilians that prevent you from fully flushing them out, or you can remove the civilians as a shield as far as your own accountability is warranted and eradicate the remaining enemy to a man.

Treat adults as adults, and foremost, treat dangerous people as dangerous people. Dangerous adults are not the sort of people you toy around with while flouting peaceful idealism, all while many very real humans die or are brainwashed to continue this misanthropy.

Criminals and their supporters know full well the accountability they enter into when they take up arms against fellow human beings.

 

[siamesedreamer]

Typical siamesedreamer fashion to quote the wrong part.

Whut whut?!?!

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

Um, he has flat out said he does not support gay marriage.

I know. I said that already, but seeing him on Hardball last week makes it look like he was dodging the issue.

 

[reilo]

Whut whut?!?!

You go into these small towns in Pennsylvania and, like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them...And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/context

 

[Tamanon]

I know. I said that already, but seeing him on Hardball last week makes it look like he was dodging the issue.

I dunno, he said "No I don't support gay marriage. But I do support civil unions with equal rights blah blah blah"

Didn't really dodge it all IMO

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

I dunno, he said "No I don't support gay marriage. But I do support civil unions with equal rights blah blah blah"

Didn't really dodge it all IMO

Actually,

It is very important that the state makes sure that they are not denying the same kind of rights that have historically been denied, because when I think about a same sex couple not being able to visit each other in the hospital, when I think about them not being able to transfer property, or to pass on benefits, I think that’s contrary to what most Americans believe, and that’s why I’m going to change it when I’m president of the United States.

Nowhere did he say he doesn't support gay marriage. Just dodged the question.

 

[siamesedreamer]

What he's saying actually makes perfect sense.

Not that I would expect anyone on this board to see it any way other than that. Its remarkable how the hoard is able to overlook such a elitist and condescending stereotyping statement. Its extremely reminiscent of the "typical white person" comment.

How well do you think this will play out in PA?

 

[reilo]

Not that I would expect anyone on this board to see it any way other than that. Its remarkable how the hoard is able to overlook such a elitist and condescending stereotyping statement. Its extremely reminiscent of the "typical white person" comment.

How well do you think this will play out in PA?

So, you are telling me, that there is not a trace of xenophobia against foreigners [legal or illegal] in blue-collar communities that have lost their jobs due to free-trade agreements such as NAFTA?

 

[siamesedreamer]

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/context

That's the best you can do when its pointed out that I was merely following the format set forth in the link? Weak...

 

[reilo]

That's the best you can do when its pointed out that I was merely following the format set forth in the link? Weak...

That does not excuse the HuffPo author either, then.

 

[Atrus]

Lots of military juntas installed through revolution/coup-detat exist on this planet and countries have to deal with them on some diplomatic level. In some cases they are tacistly supported by the united states and the USA is the first country to recognize them. har har har.

Just because this is an islamist junta does not make it a special case.

I didn't state it was a special case.

 

[Tamanon]

Actually,



Nowhere did he say he doesn't support gay marriage. Just dodged the question.

Was every answer all encompassing? No. Yet he provided sound responses that made common sense and directly addressed each issue. When specifically asked about his stance on gay marriage, the senator didn’t falter. Instead he stated plainly,
“I’m not in favor of gay marriage, but I’m in favor of a very strong civil union.”
We all know this to be the de facto stance of the Dems on this issue. However, to validate and clarify his response Sen. Obama further added:
“And I think it is very important that the state makes sure that they are not denying the same kind of rights that have historically been denied, because when I think about a same sex couple not being able to visit each other in the hospital, when I think about them not being able to transfer property, or to pass on benefits, I that’s contrary to what most Americans believe, and that’s why I’m going to change it when I’m president of the United States.”

Apparently you missed the very first sentence he said in answer

 

[Thunder Monkey]

So, you are telling me, that there is not a trace of xenophobia against foreigners [legal or illegal] in blue-collar communities that have lost their jobs due to free-trade agreements such as NAFTA?

You have no basis for that argument you cultist!

Believe everything Obama says, and me and sd will sit over there, and deny any truth to the statement. It's all bs, there's no xenophobia, and everything is perfectly hunkydory in Penn.

There's no room for layers in a presidential election! Everything must be usable in a 30 second soundbite... no make that 10 second soundbite!

Layers are evil!

 

[reilo]

You have no basis for that argument you cultist!

Believe everything Obama says, and me and sd will sit over there, and deny any truth to the statement. It's all bs, there's no xenophobia, and everything is perfectly hunkydory in Penn.

There's no room for layers in a presidential election! Everything must be usable in a 30 second soundbite... no make that 10 second soundbite!

Layers are evil!

Must not have watched The West Wing, huh? Everything is supposed to be told in a 10-word phrase.

 

[schuelma]

So, you are telling me, that there is not a trace of xenophobia against foreigners [legal or illegal] in blue-collar communities that have lost their jobs due to free-trade agreements such as NAFTA?

Of course there is!

I also would argue that Clinton and dare I say Obama played to those fears when pandering NAFTA and free trade hate in Ohio.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

Must not have watched The West Wing, huh? Everything is supposed to be told in a 10-word phrase.

That's the sad thing about politics today, and why I'm so happy Obama is going to be the Dem nominee.

His speeches have actual layers. He's not condemning Pennsies for the way they feel, he's trying to make a case for why they feel that way. And why those feelings must change.

High paying jobs have been forever lost to the state. They won't come back. The reactions (holding close to faith, anger at others) are natural reactions. But they don't have to be permanent.

SD doesn't want layers like that, he doesn't want Obama to make speeches like he has, because it makes people stop and think, and thinking is the Republicans worst enemy.

 

[XxenobladerxX]

Apparently telling the truth makes you elitist.

 

[Tamanon]

That's the sad thing about politics today, and why I'm so happy Obama is going to be the Dem nominee.

His speeches have actual layers. He's not condemning Pennsies for the way they feel, he's trying to make a case for why they feel that way. And why those feelings must change.

High paying jobs have been forever lost to the state. They won't come back. The reactions (holding close to faith, anger at others) are natural reactions. But they don't have to be permanent.

SD doesn't want layers like that, he doesn't want Obama to make speeches like he has, because it makes people stop and think, and thinking is the Republicans worst enemy.

I eagerly await his condemnation of taking this quote out of context

And weird, Drudge dropped the link from his website. It was there at the top of the page earlier, now not a trace. Wonder if he's waiting for more verification of the exact quote. you know how much of a stickler for being exact he is

 

[siamesedreamer]

SD doesn't want layers like that, he doesn't want Obama to make speeches like he has, because it makes people stop and think, and thinking is the Republicans worst enemy.

You have a remarkable way of understanding me.

Hillary has already picked up on this on the campaign trail. We'll see how this plays out.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

You have a remarkable way of understanding me.

Hillary has already picked up on this on the campaign trail. We'll see how this plays out.

Makes your nipples hard, and unmentionables tingle doesn't it?

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

Apparently you missed the very first sentence he said in answer

God I'm a moran. I even said in the last page that he said he's not for gay marriage on Hardball last week. :lol

 

[Ripclawe]

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/04/11/clinton-hits-obama-over-reported-bitter-comment/

“It’s being reported that my opponent said that the people of Pennsylvania who face hard times are bitter,” Clinton said during a campaign event in Philadelphia. “Well that’s not my experience. As I travel around Pennsylvania. I meet people who are resilient, optimist positive who are rolling up their sleeves.”

“Pennsylvanians don’t need a president who looks down on them,” she said. “They need a president who stands up for them, who fights hard for your future, your jobs, your families.”

http://www.politico.com/blogs/jonat..._camp_hammers_Obama_on_San_Fran_comments.html

The McCain campaign, finding a gift in its lap, tees off on the eye-opening comments by Barack Obama from a fundraiser last week in San Francisco (of all places).

Asked to respond, McCain adviser Steve Schmidt called it a "remarkable statement and extremely revealing."

"It shows an elitism and condescension towards hardworking Americans that is nothing short of breathtaking," Schmidt said. "It is hard to imagine someone running for president who is more out of touch with average Americans."

weekend news show topic found!

 

[reilo]

Hillary saying the country does not need a president that looks down upon its people is lulz-worthy.

McCain saying that Obama is out of touch with the populace is cringe-inducing.

The irony in those statements speak for themselves.

So, Hillary, how about them caucus states and that proud black electorate?

So, McCain, how many people agree with you on the Iraq war?

 

[XxenobladerxX]

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/04/11/clinton-hits-obama-over-reported-bitter-comment/




http://www.politico.com/blogs/jonat..._camp_hammers_Obama_on_San_Fran_comments.html



weekend news show topic found!

What a fucking joke.

 

[thekad]

Can a Republican who supports the Iraq War seriously accuse a Democrat of being out of touch with the average American?

 

[APF]

APF, stop all the arguing and start sharing information. Right now, you add nothing to this thread.

I'm sorry Mr. Mod Sir--I'll be sure to make mind-expanding comments like, "Countdown is the shit."

 

[reilo]

Can a Republican who supports the Iraq War seriously accuse a Democrat of being out of touch with the average American?

Not to mention a republican in favor of free trade agreements, corporate tax cuts, AND less regulation!

 

[thekad]

APF keeps us entertained while we wait for some damn votes to count.

 

[APF]

Guys, be forewarned (although I've warned of this already) that this idea of Obama being an elitist is going to be something he'll face a lot in the GE. It's also something, again, that's reinforced by his disaffection for the press corps.

 

[reilo]

Guys, be forewarned (although I've warned of this already) that this idea of Obama being an elitist is going to be something he'll face a lot in the GE. It's also something, again, that's reinforced by his disaffection for the press corps.

Do you think Obama is an elitist?

 

[APF]

Do you think Obama is an elitist?

I dono. Kinda maybe, but I don't actually know him. He comes across at least, as having a strong sense of entitlement, which of course is understandable.

 

[reilo]

I dono. Kinda maybe, but I don't actually know him.

Do you think the Clintons are elitist?

 

[APF]

Do you think the Clintons are elitist?

Hillary's done a remarkable job of appearing to be a "woman of the people" recently.

 

[XxenobladerxX]

If Obama was an elitist,then he would of never helped those people in ILL. If he was an elitist then he would of never been a civil right attorney.

 

[CoolTrick]

Do you think the Clintons are elitist?

This is the type of argument Obama fans use all the time. Just STFU, it doesnt make what Obama said any less arrogant.