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[The Lamonster]

We should have 2 versions of this thread:

One where APF is not allowed and one where APF runs free. Until then I'll stay away as this is usually a place of pointless bickering. thx

 

[tanod]

@#&SUHAHSAHSDHSADAD

THIS IS THE FIVE TRILLIONTH TIME I'VE SEEN AN OBAMA COMMERCIAL THIS MORNING

KILL IT WITH FIRE THIS PRIMARY SEASON SUCKS ASS

why did you have to bring this evil to Pennsylvania, America? FUCK YOU OHIO AND TEXAS

It's OK Amir0x. I understand your pain. I live in Iowa and for over a month, there was nothing but presidential commercials from the 10+ candidates in the race at the time.

People were writing editorials about how ridiculous it was getting.

 

[sprsk]

Hillary is all speeches and no substance!

 

[harSon]

"As you all know, I own many houses. Many of the superdelegates, also, own many houses. This housing crisis really only personifies one thing, and that is the fact that the American people cannot be trusted with important decisions. If you are not capable of providing for your own families, how do you intent to make informed decisions about who can provide for the nation?"

"To see how I'll handle the housing crisis as president, please go to my website www.hillaryclinton.com"

 

[GhaleonEB]

Hillary is going to make a major speech on the housing crisis today.

Ug.

PHILADELPHIA - Democrat Hillary Rodham Clinton called on President Bush on Monday to appoint "an emergency working group on foreclosures" to recommend new ways to confront the nation's housing finance troubles.

The New York senator said the panel should be led by financial experts such as Robert Rubin, who was treasury secretary in her husband's administration, and former Federal Reserve chairmen Alan Greenspan and Paul Volcker.

Such a panel would recommend legislation and other steps to "help re-establish confidence in our economy," Clinton said in prepared remarks for a speech on the economy in Philadelphia. She and Sen. Barack Obama are campaigning heavily in Pennsylvania, which holds its presidential primary April 22.

Clinton also proposed greater protections for lenders from possible lawsuits by investors, a version of so-called tort reform more often associated with Republicans than Democrats.

Many lenders are unwilling to undertake "far-reaching restructuring efforts" for fear of being sued by investors who buy mortgages, she said. She said she would introduce legislation to limit the lenders' legal exposure.

Clinton said she supports proposed legislation to establish a federally backed auction system for hundreds of thousands mortgages in default. Under the Democratic-drafted plan, lenders "could sell mortgages in bulk to banks and other buyers," she said, who in turn would "restructure them to make them affordable for families, because they know the government will guarantee them once they're reworked."

But more steps are needed, Clinton said. The Federal Housing Administration, she said, "should also stand ready to be a temporary buyer to purchase, restructure, and resell underwater mortgages."

Clinton said a recently enacted $168 billion stimulus package "did next to nothing to help homeowners and communities struggling with foreclosure."

"If the Fed can extend $30 billion to help Bear Stearns address their financial crisis," she said, "the federal government should provide at least that much emergency help to families and communities to address theirs."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080324/ap_on_el_pr/clinton_housing

 

[syllogism]

She is on cnn feed right now, being her usual robotic self. Probably over soon.

e: now drudge linked to the Hillary Bosnia trip fact check article

 

[The Lamonster]

What are the chances Hillary will drop out before the convention for the good of the party?

 

[RubxQub]

What are the chances Hillary will drop out before the convention for the good of the party?

Absolutely nill.

 

[GhaleonEB]

What are the chances Hillary will drop out before the convention for the good of the party?

Nada, unless enough supers move to Obama that he clears 2025.

 

[PhoenixDark]

What are the chances Hillary will drop out before the convention for the good of the party?

Why would she? She's going to win Penn., and if she sweeps Indiana and NC with commanding numbers she'll have a very good argument going into the convention

 

[XxenobladerxX]

What are the chances Hillary will drop out before the convention for the good of the party?

No chance. This thing is going the convention,guaranteed.

 

[harSon]

Why would she? She's going to win Penn., and if she sweeps Indiana and NC with commanding numbers she'll have a very good argument going into the convention

If Michigan and Florida are not seated, she has absolutely no argument.

 

[Gig]

Why would she? She's going to win Penn., and if she sweeps Indiana and NC with commanding numbers she'll have a very good argument going into the convention

That's a mighty big if.

 

[syllogism]

She will drop out before convention unless something dramatic happens.

 

[gkryhewy]

Why would she? She's going to win Penn., and if she sweeps Indiana and NC with commanding numbers she'll have a very good argument going into the convention

:lol :lol

Also, Hillary seems to be unredeemably clueless on the mortgage issue - all of her play-uns are utterly unworkable and would essentially make semi-permanent the current market-driven freeze on investment in mortgage-backed securities, and the spigot on mortgages along with it.

Many lenders are unwilling to undertake "far-reaching restructuring efforts" for fear of being sued by investors who buy mortgages, she said. She said she would introduce legislation to limit the lenders' legal exposure.

LOL - without those investors, there are no mortgages in the future. In short, rates would go way up, and it'd be really hard to get a mortgage. It is now, but this would become a rule of thumb.

On the other hand, maybe that's not such a bad thing.

 

[gcubed]

Why would she? She's going to win Penn., and if she sweeps Indiana and NC with commanding numbers she'll have a very good argument going into the convention

i think there is a much better chance that she drops out before the convention then her winning NC with "commanding numbers"

 

[jak stat]

Why would she? She's going to win Penn., and if she sweeps Indiana and NC with commanding numbers she'll have a very good argument going into the convention

So Pennsylvania, Indiana and NC (if they go to her)>all the previous Obama voters?

 

[tanod]

Bill Clinton meant no harm I think.

Bill never speaks from notecard or prepared speechs like Obama and Hillary do. It's always 100% off the cuff and different wherever he is. Due to this comments that can be seen as implying something bad pop up since he never combs through what he will say for anything that might not be seen to be so good.

Bill Clinton is a brilliant politican, he would never make such a rookie mistake willingly.

Dude. Bill Clinton fell off his own pedestal long ago. He doesn't need you to put him back on. The fact is Bill is out of practice and he's not an effective supporter for his wife.

That's mostly because he's so narcissistic that he can't point out a single positive quality about his wife or anybody else unless he's reading it from a talking points memo. Hillary's campaign for President has all but killed Bill Clinton's legacy inside the Democratic party.

 

[The Lamonster]

:lol

I know there is no chance. Just felt like some Monday morning jokes.

 

[PhoenixDark]

That's a mighty big if.

Indeed, it's not particularly likely - at least with respect to Indiana and NC. We'll see what happens in Penn. and go from there. But, if Obama were to win Penn. I don't possibly see how her campaign could go on

 

[harSon]

She needs 64% of all remaining states to retake the delegate count which is impossible, she is 800,000 - 1,200,000 down in the popular vote. Clinton and Obama are polling closely in North Carolina and Indiana which is bad news for Hillary considering Obama typically only goes up in poll as primarys inch closer. Florida and Michigan are a lost cause, there window for a do over is coming to a close. It's over PD... get over it.

 

[The Lamonster]

I heard she has a less than 10% chance of winning this delegate race. Shouldn't she call it quits now so we can focus on November?

 

[gcubed]

Has there been any new PA polling figures lately, have they even moved at all?

 

[Tamanon]

FYI, it looks like she's now going to be pushing the electoral votes of the states she won as a measure that she should win

 

[tanod]

Obama's taking two days off. I think besides keeping the TV commercials on the air in Pennsylvania and wherever, he's seemed to have switched to general election mode.

Also, I finally got to see the Hillary in Bosnia video on Morning Joe today. Needs to get more MSM coverage.

 

[gkryhewy]

FYI, it looks like she's now going to be pushing the electoral votes of the states she won as a measure that she should win

Yes, electoral college is the new goalpost.

 

[The Lamonster]

Obama's taking two days off. I think besides keeping the TV commercials on the air in Pennsylvania and wherever, he's seemed to have switched to general election mode.

Also, I finally got to see the Hillary video on Morning Joe today. Needs to get more MSM coverage.

What is this? What's "the Hillary Video?" Did she say something stupid?

Edited: Should be HRC in Bosnia.

ah, yes. She's a flat-out liar.

 

[tanod]

What is this? What's the Hillary Video? Did she say something stupid?

Edited: Should be HRC in Bosnia.

 

[ToyMachine228]

Has there been any new PA polling figures lately, have they even moved at all?

I haven't seen anything but after the two days off I think Obama will focus there and close in, within 10 points. There's been a lot of voter registration going on in the Obama camps down there and I think that'll help.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Has there been any new PA polling figures lately, have they even moved at all?

I haven't seen any, but I'd exepect some in the next few days. I suspect he'll do better the later the polling was done last week.

 

[RubxQub]

I haven't seen anything but after the two days off I think Obama will focus there and close in, within 10 points. There's been a lot of voter registration going on in the Obama camps down there and I think that'll help.

Ends today!

If all my friends at Drexel don't go out and vote for the O-bomb, there will be deaths dealt... DEATHS.

 

[Tyrone Slothrop]

i was watching msnbc this morning and found out that mccain was recently at ~46% at the gallup poll. and obama just now passed him up.

that's some pretty scary shit.

 

[Fragamemnon]

i was watching msnbc this morning and found out that mccain was recently at ~46% at the gallup poll. and obama just now passed him up.

that's some pretty scary shit.

Thing is that McCain can't seem to get up above that 45-46% line. It very well might be his high water mark.

His bigger concern, though, has to be $$$. He sucks balls at fundraising and the likely Obama candidacy promises to spread him out very thin over many more states than he'll have cash for.

 

[electricpirate]

Ug.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080324/ap_on_el_pr/clinton_housing

Some good some bad in her suggestions, I like the idea of the federal auction, but giving legal protections to the copanies that created this system of selling mortgages as investments far more secure than what they actually are just rewards the companies for helping to undermine investment in america. That strikes me as an especially odeous suggestion.

I'd prefer laws for more transparency into who owns what mortgage and the conditions under which the money was lent. I also don't like this "Well fuck I'll start a committee on it" idea. As smart as Greenspan is, his hands off approach to how mortgages were being repackaged is part of the problem here. This "Start a committee" approach, designed to look like something is being done without actually doing anything just drives more people away from politics in this country.

 

[ralexand]

i was watching msnbc this morning and found out that mccain was recently at ~46% at the gallup poll. and obama just now passed him up.

that's some pretty scary shit.

I don't see that poll. Is there a link?

 

[electricpirate]

Thing is that McCain can't seem to get up above that 45-46% line. It very well might be his high water mark.

His bigger concern, though, has to be $$$. He sucks balls at fundraising and the likely Obama candidacy promises to spread him out very thin over many more states than he'll have cash for.

Obama's pledge to take Public financing and agree to the baggage that comes with it is really going to bite him in the ass here. Either he gives up a huge advantage or he comes off (deservedly so) as a hypocrite. If I wasn't such a proponent of public financing I'd wish he'd never made the pledge, but I am, and I want him to stick to it.

 

[RubxQub]

Obama's pledge to take Public financing and agree to the baggage that comes with it is really going to bite him in the ass here. Either he gives up a huge advantage or he comes off (deservedly so) as a hypocrite. If I wasn't such a proponent of public financing I'd wish he'd never made the pledge, but I am, and I want him to stick to it.

He'll stick to it as long as McCain agrees to all the conditions that come with it.

No swiftboating bullshit groups.

 

[Tyrone Slothrop]

I don't see that poll. Is there a link?

not that i know of. i just briefly glanced at a news broadcast

 

[Incognito]

Obama's pledge to take Public financing and agree to the baggage that comes with it is really going to bite him in the ass here. Either he gives up a huge advantage or he comes off (deservedly so) as a hypocrite. If I wasn't such a proponent of public financing I'd wish he'd never made the pledge, but I am, and I want him to stick to it.

it can be argued that the support of millions and millions of people all donating less than $250 could be "public financing."

and mccain just this past week already broke his pledge for public funds when he eclipsed the $54 million mark

i can see why mccain would want obama to "stick to his pledge" but why should obama do that when mccain has already shown that he himself isn't willing to do so?

 

[PhoenixDark]

Senator Evan Bayh of Indiana, who backs Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton for president, proposed another gauge Sunday by which superdelegates might judge whether to support Mrs. Clinton or Senator Barack Obama.

He suggested that they consider the electoral votes of the states that each of them has won.

“So who carried the states with the most Electoral College votes is an important factor to consider because ultimately, that’s how we choose the president of the United States,” Mr. Bayh said on CNN’s “Late Edition.”

In a primary, of course, electoral votes are not relevant, but the Clinton campaign is trying to use them as an unofficial measure of strength.

So far, Mrs. Clinton has won states with a total of 219 Electoral College votes, not counting Florida and Michigan, while Mr. Obama has won states with a total of 202 electoral votes.

Mr. Obama, of Illinois, is ahead of Mrs. Clinton, of New York, in most other leading indicators: popular vote (by 700,000 votes out of 26 million cast, excluding caucuses and the disputed Florida and Michigan results, a difference of about 3 percent); delegates (1,622.5 compared with 1,472.5 for her, according to The New York Times’s count); and number of states (27 compared with 14 for her, excluding Florida and Michigan). The opinion polls are mixed but give Mr. Obama a slight edge.

Asked how she could win the nomination, Mr. Bayh said: “Well, I do think the popular vote is important. But that’s a circular argument. It brings us back to Florida and Michigan.”

He said he would also factor in electability and momentum, then added: “But ultimately, you know, if you look at the aggregate popular vote, and as we all recall in 2000, to our, as Democrats, great sorrow, we do elect presidents based upon the Electoral College.”

The Clinton camp has argued that Mrs. Clinton’s having won the big states should be an important factor when considering her electability.

“Presidential elections are decided on electoral votes,” a spokesman for Mrs. Clinton, Howard Wolfson, said in an e-mail message.

But Mr. Wolfson said superdelegates would also be looking at the popular vote when determining which candidate to support.

Bill Burton, a spokesman for Mr. Obama, said that the idea of using the Electoral College as a metric was specious because the Democratic nominee, regardless of whom it was, would almost certainly win California and New York.

Many Democrats, including Mrs. Clinton and Mr. Bayh, have opposed the Electoral College in the past, particularly after 2000, when Florida’s 25 electoral votes were awarded to George W. Bush, who became president, even though Al Gore, the Democratic nominee, had won the popular vote nationwide.

At the time, Mrs. Clinton, who had just been elected to the Senate, said, “I believe strongly that in a democracy, we should respect the will of the people and to me, that means it’s time to do away with the Electoral College and move to the popular election of our president.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/24/u...ics&adxnnlx=1206374709-3coLx+fgGCRIUfnvmMHxog

Wow. Bayh has always struck me as a good guy but this spin is pretty laughable.

 

[ZealousD]

Why would she? She's going to win Penn., and if she sweeps Indiana and NC with commanding numbers she'll have a very good argument going into the convention

She might have a good argument, but Obama has a better one.

I HAVE MORE VOTES.
I HAVE MORE DELEGATES.
IF YOU VOTE AGAINST THE ELECTORATE, YOU WILL BREAK THE PARTY.

 

[Tamanon]

Yeah, I think people are avoiding the obvious issue that would arise if you have the first viable black candidate(blacks being a massive part of the Democratic party) and watch him win the most delegates and then get it taken away by the party leaders.....

Just think on what that would do, it would destroy the Democratic party. You cannot regain their trust then, especially since Clinton would likely then lose the general election.

 

[soul creator]

poor goalposts will never find a home

 

[BotoxAgent]

What are the chances Hillary will drop out before the convention for the good of the party?

"for the good of the party" haha! Like Hillary gives a flying f@ck :lol

 

[PhoenixDark]

Yeah, I think people are avoiding the obvious issue that would arise if you have the first viable black candidate(blacks being a massive part of the Democratic party) and watch him win the most delegates and then get it taken away by the party leaders.....

Just think on what that would do, it would destroy the Democratic party. You cannot regain their trust then, especially since Clinton would likely then lose the general election.

I agree. If Obama's delegate lead were to fall <40 I think Hillary would have a damn good argument at the convention, but it wouldn't be worth it: as long as Obama has the delegate lead, if the nomination is given to Hillary there will be hell to pay. If it's true the super delegate just want to win in November they have to recognize this. Bill isn't stupid, and of all people he's gotta realize that Hillary's grasp on the black vote is already weak. Stealing the election would ensure even more black people stay home on election day than usual. And then you also have to consider that an entire generation of young people will wind up disenchanted from the democratic party.

If some huge story comes up that makes Obama unelectable (prostitution ring or pedo shit for instance) then he's done. But it seems like the Wright story is going to be the biggest hit he takes; the Rezko story doesn't seem to have any teeth

 

[Cheebs]

Here is a question to consider. Will the primary end up being closer than the 1976 Rep. primary?

I doubt it. This was the final tally at the convention:
# President Ford 1187
# Ronald Reagan 1070

 

[thefro]

Ug.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080324/ap_on_el_pr/clinton_housing

http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/samgrahamfelsen/gGBnCJ

Hillary got beat by a year and 2 days.

 

[WrathOfOtaibah]

What are the chances Hillary will drop out before the convention for the good of the party?

None.

She has been planning this run since probably Bill got elected to a second term as President. With at least a decade of planning and scheming, she isn't just going to back off. Even if she loses, I expect her to support Obama but be extremely passive aggressive.

 

[Cheebs]

wtf?

Clinton Camp Denounces Obama Iowa Supporter for Lewinsky Comments
Monday, March 24th, 2008

In media call, spokesmen Howard Wolfson and Phil Singer decry Obama’s Iowa co-chair Gordon Fischer’s statement invoking “Monica’s blue dress” in blog posting.

They say it shows course Obama campaign is now taking in the race.

Singer: Called it the “most personal attack yet,” said the Obama campaign is being “fueled by insult and slander.”

Obama damnit, keep the lid shut on your supporters.

 

[tanod]

None.

She has been planning this run since probably Bill got elected to a second term as President. With at least a decade of planning and scheming, she isn't just going to back off. Even if she loses, I expect her to support Obama but be extremely passive aggressive.

The most painful thing for them is probably the shooting themselves in the foot by not running in 2004

Spoiler

or dropping out after Obama's last two wins

when they had the chance.