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PoliGAF Interim Thread of Tears/Lapel Pins (ScratchingHisCheek-Gate)

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sangreal

Member
Dan said:
That's easy to believe, but to my knowledge the cost of these primaries and caucuses usually falls to townships, counties and states, so this process should damned well be held up to legitimate standards, none of this free-for-all nonsense. It's not the party footing the bill, but your tax dollars. This would be utterly unacceptable in any burgeoning democracy's elections that the world watched over.

I don't think any caucuses are state run. States are forced to pay for primaries only if they require a primary election by law. Also, having a state-run primary doesn't mean the parties have to follow the results. See: Washington, Louisiana, Michigan, Florida, Texas, etc. Its a private nomination process, and the party is always free to hold its own contests (the caucuses you are complaining about)

It would be unacceptable to use a caucus to elect somebody, but I really don't see the problem with parties setting their own rules for selecting their leader.
 

sangreal

Member
Triumph said:
From what I understand, the party leaders generally agree on someone who will be the PM should their party win a majority in that election, and let the public know about it. That way people know who they're voting for as PM in addition to the party.

Thats what I figured, and I maintain that its less democratic than the US system of directly voting for the leader of the party (separately from the election). I'm not saying its a bad thing, but its almost entirely equivalent to simply allowing the Super Delegates to choose the nominee in the US system which most people have spoken out against.
 
sangreal said:
Thats what I figured, and I maintain that its less democratic than the US system of directly voting for the leader of the party (separately from the election). I'm not saying its a bad thing, but its almost entirely equivalent to simply allowing the Super Delegates to choose the nominee in the US system which most people have spoken out against.

Well, as I see it, it's not about people, it's about the politics driven by the party. So intra-party affairs are dictated by the party that receives your vote, effectively rendering it a vote for a political entity. And as long as the hierarchy is transparent in time for the actual national election, the voter can opt to not vote for a party with a leadership that the voter disapproves of. Conversely, in the US it's a popularity contest to reach the nomination of presidential candidate, and the actual voting in of a ruling political party is by committee, leaving voters carrying the roles of advisers. Honestly, I find it deeply troubling that a political party that is supposed to lead a relatively united political front can not be considered trustworthy enough to determine its own hierarchy.
 
Tamanon said:
McCain :lol :lol

Reporter: “Should U.S. taxpayer money go to places like Africa to fund contraception to prevent AIDS?”

Mr. McCain: “Well I think it’s a combination. The guy I really respect on this is Dr. Coburn. He believes – and I was just reading the thing he wrote– that you should do what you can to encourage abstinence where there is going to be sexual activity. Where that doesn’t succeed, than he thinks that we should employ contraceptives as well. But I agree with him that the first priority is on abstinence. I look to people like Dr. Coburn. I’m not very wise on it.”

(Mr. McCain turns to take a question on Iraq, but a moment later looks back to the reporter who asked him about AIDS.)

Mr. McCain: “I haven’t thought about it. Before I give you an answer, let me think about. Let me think about it a little bit because I never got a question about it before. I don’t know if I would use taxpayers’ money for it.”

Q: “What about grants for sex education in the United States? Should they include instructions about using contraceptives? Or should it be Bush’s policy, which is just abstinence?”

Mr. McCain: (Long pause) “Ahhh. I think I support the president’s policy.”

Q: “So no contraception, no counseling on contraception. Just abstinence. Do you think contraceptives help stop the spread of HIV?”

Mr. McCain: (Long pause) “You’ve stumped me.”

Q: “I mean, I think you’d probably agree it probably does help stop it?”

Mr. McCain: (Laughs) “Are we on the Straight Talk express? I’m not informed enough on it. Let me find out. You know, I’m sure I’ve taken a position on it on the past. I have to find out what my position was. Brian, would you find out what my position is on contraception – I’m sure I’m opposed to government spending on it, I’m sure I support the president’s policies on it.”

Q: “But you would agree that condoms do stop the spread of sexually transmitted diseases. Would you say: ‘No, we’re not going to distribute them,’ knowing that?”

Mr. McCain: (Twelve-second pause) “Get me Coburn’s thing, ask Weaver to get me Coburn’s paper that he just gave me in the last couple of days. I’ve never gotten into these issues before.”

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/03/16/mccain-stumbles-on-hiv-prevention/
To give this contrast. Today at a pennsylvania rally Obama was asked his stance on Teen sex, STD, Abortion and other questions. He gave his stance on all of these harder questions.
 

Hitokage

Setec Astronomer
Gig said:
:lol :lol :lol So technical.
Inter = Between
Intra = Within

Inter-Party would be the General!
Triumph said:
I don't like open primaries, but I also dislike closed primaries. Semi-open/closed like NC are the way to go- don't want to shut out those who don't want to register as a Democrat. Hell, I would have registered as unaffiliated in NC except that I wanted to be called in polls so I could make my stance known.
I'm a registered Unaffiliated. :D
 

Triumph

Banned
Hitokage said:
I'm a registered Unaffiliated. :D
Quiet you! ;)

It's funny, my sister who has never voted for anything other than Democrats insisted on registering as Unaffiliated. Then me, who has voted for several far out left loonie candidates for various positions is a registered Democrat. Weirdness!
 

lopaz

Banned
Deus Ex Machina said:
To give this contrast. Today at a pennsylvania rally Obama was asked his stance on Teen sex, STD, Abortion and other questions. He gave his stance on all of these harder questions.

Goddamit, Mccain's pathetic. He's just said "I can't remember what my opinion is, someone tell me my opinion!"
 
lopaz said:
Goddamit, Mccain's pathetic. He's just said "I can't remember what my opinion is, someone tell me my opinion!"
6a00d4141f3422685e00d09e5d609dbe2b5.png


John McCain.


Hes fucking old.
 
Why did Obama have to be nice and say something like Hillary should not be forced out of the race and she should run as long as she likes???

What is wrong with this guy? Is he a politician?

/swoon
 

kablooey

Member
Smiles and Cries said:
Why did Obama have to be nice and say something like Hillary should not be forced out of the race and she should run as long as she likes???

What is wrong with this guy? Is he a politician?

/swoon

Subtext: It doesn't matter anyway because it's mathematically impossible (more or less) for her to catch up with me in elected delegates.
 

Triumph

Banned
Smiles and Cries said:
Why did Obama have to be nice and say something like Hillary should not be forced out of the race and she should run as long as she likes???

What is wrong with this guy? Is he a politician?

/swoon
It's the right path to take. He should clamp down on his surrogates blatantly calling for her to withdraw like Leahy; nebulous calls for party unity, civility and concentrating on McCain should be the way to go. Just saying "she should drop out", while pretty much correct is just going to piss off and rile up her base of cranky 50+ white women that Obama is going to need to win the general in November.

Tejas update: with 43% of the delegates to the state convention allocated, Obama is leading Clinton 57% to 43%... just a little better than expected, but Bexar county went pretty heavily to Clinton and has yet to report.
 
It's the smart thing to do. Obama comes off looking presidential and at the same time prevents Hillary from screaming indignation and rally her base to get the pity votes.
 

mashoutposse

Ante Up
I'm convinced that the reason for Obama's poor showing amongst Hispanics is the deadly combination of the language barrier and Clinton brand name.
 

reilo

learning some important life lessons from magical Negroes
mashoutposse said:
I'm convinced that the reason for Obama's poor showing amongst Hispanics is the deadly combination of the language barrier and Clinton brand name.

"English motherfucker, do you speak it?!"

"¿Que?"
 

Triumph

Banned
Looking more and more likely that Obama will pick up a net of +2 delegates from what was estimated from the caucuses in Tejas on March 4th. As long as he finishes with 58.96% or more of the state delegates, he'll do it. With 56.60% of delegates allocated, he's looking good. Here are some of the outstanding counties with large numbers of delegates to allocate and how the early numbers looked on March 4th per CNN (caucus numbers, natch):

Bexar County- 363 delegates outstanding. CNN had it going to Clinton 57-43, but the one slice of the county that has reported so far Obama actually won by a slim margin. Don't know what to think about that one.

Cameron Co.- only 80 delegates, but CNN's Mar 4 numbers had Clinton winning 77-23. If Obama doesn't get 15%, he gets no delegates!

Collin Co.- 180 delegates, Obama leading 66-34 from the Mar 4 numbers.

El Paso Co.- 182 delegates, Clinton winning 75-25 from the Mar 4 numbers.

Harris Co.- I think this is Houston. (someone from TX could clarify) Anyway, there are 2 conventions yet to report that have a total of 342 delegates between them. Obama won 66-34 per CNN, with the conventions that have reported roughly following that.

Jefferson Co.- 102 delegates, Obama 70-30 per CNN.

Tarrant Co.- 563 delegates, Obama 61-39 per CNN.

Edit: Ok, El Paso came in huge for Clinton and another part of Bexar favored her, too. The good news is that there are 2744 delegates left to be allocated, and 1187 of them in areas that are pretty sure to overwhelmingly favor Obama.
 

Triumph

Banned
XxenobladerxX said:
Only 2 delegates? Shitty penis..
No no, you don't understand...

Obama Vote %:
53%-54.5% Obama will get 36 delegates, Clinton 31
54.5%-56% Delegates will be 37-30
56%-57.46% Delegates will be 38-29 (projection from March 4).
57.46%-58.96% Delegates will be 39-28
58.96%-60.4% Delegates will be 40-27
60.4%-61.9% Delegates will be 41-26

It would be 2 MORE than he was thought to have gotten.
 
Triumph said:
No no, you don't understand...

Obama Vote %:
53%-54.5% Obama will get 36 delegates, Clinton 31
54.5%-56% Delegates will be 37-30
56%-57.46% Delegates will be 38-29 (projection from March 4).
57.46%-58.96% Delegates will be 39-28
58.96%-60.4% Delegates will be 40-27
60.4%-61.9% Delegates will be 41-26

It would be 2 MORE than he was thought to have gotten.
Oh sweet :D
 

Odrion

Banned
If McCain really is that clueless, how quickly will the voters run away from him? I don't think that anyone that dumb can actually win.

At least Bush HAD opinions.
 

mashoutposse

Ante Up
Odrion said:
If McCain really is that clueless, how quickly will the voters run away from him? I don't think that anyone that dumb can actually win.

At least Bush HAD opinions.

His support will crumble once a Democratic nominee is selected and he is finally scrutinized by the media. He's going to have a problem once people get an up close and personal view of McCain version 2008 in the Presidential debates.

I've never heard the usual suspects of conservative talk radio more down on their own candidate.
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
mashoutposse said:
His support will crumble once a Democratic nominee is selected and he is finally scrutinized by the media. He's going to have a problem once people get an up close and personal view of McCain version 2008 in the Presidential debates.

I've never heard the usual suspects of conservative talk radio more down on their own candidate.

Seriously the internet will have to alert the MSM to these dumb responses that he gives. How do you not know what you think about condoms?
 

Macam

Banned
Triumph said:
Harris Co.- I think this is Houston. (someone from TX could clarify) Anyway, there are 2 conventions yet to report that have a total of 342 delegates between them. Obama won 66-34 per CNN, with the conventions that have reported roughly following that.

It's Houston, Triumph. Unfortunately, I'm in it at the moment.
 

Stinkles

Clothed, sober, cooperative
Deus Ex Machina said:


Why is there a rapist smiley?


Also, Obama's "she should continue to run" thing is the best chance to appease Hillary stalwarts that he's not such a bad alternative. It's way too late for Hillary to do the same. Although I should point out that if by some awful fluke she wins, I vote for her without question in November.
 

ZeroTolerance

Junior Member
Stinkles said:
Why is there a rapist smiley?


Also, Obama's "she should continue to run" thing is the best chance to appease Hillary stalwarts that he's not such a bad alternative. It's way too late for Hillary to do the same. Although I should point out that if by some awful fluke she wins, I vote for her without question in November.

:lol :lol

I don't think he meant it like that. He is probably trying to say she look good in it.
 

GhaleonEB

Member
Stinkles said:
Why is there a rapist smiley?


Also, Obama's "she should continue to run" thing is the best chance to appease Hillary stalwarts that he's not such a bad alternative. It's way too late for Hillary to do the same. Although I should point out that if by some awful fluke she wins, I vote for her without question in November.
She's apparantly taking it to heart.

Hillary said:
"I know there are some people who want to shut this down and I think they are wrong. I have no intention of stopping until we finish what we started and until we see what happens in the next 10 contests and until we resolve Florida and Michigan. And if we don't resolve it, we'll resolve it at the convention -- that's what credentials committees are for."
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/

All the way to the convention, baby.
 
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