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[Lefty42o]

No, he had the story wrong. Misspeaking--as people here said re: Hillary's story--is accidentally saying one thing when you really mean something else; not making up something because it sounds better. smh at the hypocrisy.

lol. i said my granddad was Italian truth is he is not. he is from some small independent island in the Mediterranean. thats called a misspeak my friend.

did his dad come over on a program that the kennedy's gave money to? yes
what was misunderstood was that the kennedy's did not give money to the original flight but the next year for the second flight. a incident we are talking 49 years ago.

seriously step back for a minute. 49 years ago. your joking. you have lost it. :lol

 

[Deus Ex Machina]

lol. i said my granddad was Italian truth is he is not. he is from some small independent island in the Mediterranean. thats called a misspeak my friend.

did his dad come over on a program that the kennedy's gave money to? yes
what was misunderstood was that the kennedy's did not give money to the original flight but the next year for the second flight. a incident we are talking 49 years ago.

seriously step back for a minute. 49 years ago. your joking. you have lost it. :lol

They're grasping at anything they can now! Almost 50 year old stories. Most of us wasn't even alive.

 

[APF]

lol. i said my granddad was Italian truth is he is not. he is from some small independent island in the Mediterranean. thats called a misspeak my friend.

No, that's called being wrong. Like, WMDs in Iraq wrong. Basing campaign speeches on factually inaccurate premises in order to boost your "story" when that's a major part of your appeal? Disgraceful.

did his dad come over on a program that the kennedy's gave money to? yes

No. His dad came over before Kennedy was involved in any of this, making his entire story a falsehood. Also, the story of his conception, a falsehood.

 

[Sule]

*sigh* you were saving that for when the poll hit, weren't you. Had to ruin the party.

Spoiler

don't answer please, it's not a question

 

[harSon]

No, that's called being wrong. Like, WMDs in Iraq wrong.

What a totally even comparison.

No. His dad came over before Kennedy was involved in any of this, making his entire story a falsehood.

Like I previously said he misspoke, he was wrong. The impact and message of the story still remains.

 

[APF]

The article's from today.


harSon: I don't see how you can possibly say that, since neither "story" had anything to do with BO himself, despite his attempts to link himself to them.

 

[Tamanon]

The article's from today.

Right, and the speech is from a YEAR ago.

Plus the campaign immediately said he had erred about that fact, how refreshing!

 

[APF]

Right, and the speech is from a YEAR ago.

So using that logic, we shouldn't be speaking about old HRC quotes?

 

[harSon]

So using that logic, we shouldn't be speaking about old HRC quotes?

Except for the fact that she recently defended her side of the story.

 

[Tamanon]

So using that logic, we shouldn't be speaking about old HRC quotes?

When did you start speaking about them?

 

[GhaleonEB]

Oh look. APF is back.

 

[APF]

When did you start speaking about them?

? I haven't?

 

[Lefty42o]

No, that's called being wrong. Like, WMDs in Iraq wrong. Basing campaign speeches on factually inaccurate premises in order to boost your "story" when that's a major part of your appeal? Disgraceful.


No. His dad came over before Kennedy was involved in any of this, making his entire story a falsehood. Also, the story of his conception, a falsehood.

Contrary to Obama's claims in speeches in January at American University and in Selma last year, the Kennedy family did not provide the funding for a September 1959 airlift of 81 Kenyan students to the United States that included Obama's father. According to historical records and interviews with participants, the Kennedys were first approached for support for the program nearly a year later, in July 1960. The family responded with a $100,000 donation, most of which went to pay for a second airlift in September 1960.


and all of this was after they had to look into the historical record after 49 years. like you said he was wrong. its not a lie they did help witht ghe second batch of students and a large sum to of 100,000 in 1960.

the obama response

He said the Kennedy involvement in the Kenya student program apparently 'started 48 years ago, not 49 years ago as Obama has mistakenly suggested in the past

once again your have lost it apf.

 

[APF]

Lefty42o: I don't understand why you went through all the trouble of verifying the accuracy of what I'm saying, but thanks I guess. Obama was inflating his life story and fabricating a connection that was not factually accurate.

Same thing with the "So don't tell me I don't have a claim on Selma, Alabama" comment. Uh, actually no, you don't--at least, not in the way you falsely claimed.

 

[Clipjoint]

bad image choice...that was a gutter ball!

Are you kidding, look at that form...that one had to be the spare.

 

[Lefty42o]

Lefty42o: I don't understand why you went through all the trouble of verifying the accuracy of what I'm saying, but thanks I guess. Obama was inflating his life story and fabricating a connection that was not factually accurate.

no i highlighted the facts your trying to spin. if the Kennedy's had no involvement than yes it would consider it a lie. but for you to attack him on this is a pathetic effort.

the Kennedy's were involved just not in the original flight that included his father. thats the fact you keep ignoring. and the big diff that makes this a misstatement and not a outright lie as you suggest. once again all this from 49 years ago.

 

[harSon]

Lefty42o: I don't understand why you went through all the trouble of verifying the accuracy of what I'm saying, but thanks I guess. Obama was inflating his life story and fabricating a connection that was not factually accurate.

I believe it was a bloated way of saying you're full of shit. You intentionally take meaningless stories and project them in a negative light in an attempt to spark argument.

 

[Lefty42o]

I believe it was a bloated way of saying you're full of shit. You intentionally take meaningless stories and project them in a negative light in an attempt to spark argument.

yup.

 

[Tamanon]

Barack Obama spent Saturday evening in a close encounter with the fierce urgency of a gutter ball.

In search of game, a friendly crowd and really good photo ops, Senator Barack Obama and Senator Robert Casey rolled into Pleasant Valley Lanes in Altoona to cheers from patrons, report our faithful press pool reporters. Several bowlers ready to bite into French fries lathered with ketchup and American cheese—it’s a Pennsylvania thing; you wouldn’t understand — stopped mid-munch, put down their beers and watched a presidential candidate walk into their midst.

Mr. Obama takes no small pride in his athleticism but he was back-pedaling from the start. “I just want to point out that the last time I bowled was 30 years ago, when I was 16,” he cautioned the crowd gathering to ask for his autograph and a photo.

Whatever.

Roxanne Hart, a 43-year-old gal from Altoona, asked if he wanted to bowl with her. Mr. Obama and Mr. Casey shed dress shoes for bowling shoes—a blue and white Velcro number for Obama, size 13 ½ — and entered their names into the overhead monitor. It was BAR and BOB against ROX.

Rox won in a walk.

Mr. Obama picked up a ball, cued up all confident-like, and sent the thing into the gutter. “We’re just warming up,” Mr. Obama assured himself, maybe.

So it rolled, one desultory frame after another. Rox hit spare upon spare; Mr. Obama knocked a few pins here and there and announced that his goal was to beat Mr. Casey. “I can’t beat Roxanne,” he said.

Mr. Obama, it turns out, was a weak centrist. His balls rolled down the center of the lane, but much too slowly to knock over more than a half dozen or so pins. “You notice I’m getting better?” he asked.

The patrons kept taking cell phone and camera shots, and urging friends to drive to the bowling alley to catch this scene.

“Let me tell you something,” Obama said to the crowd. “My economic plan is better than my bowling.” A man standing at the next lane called out, “It has to be.”

Mr. Obama laughed and gave him a hug.

Finally, in the seventh frame, Obama made a spare, cleaning up one pin. “Yes I can!” he started chanting after a couple admirers at a nearby lane started it. “Yes I can!”

As to politics, maybe. As to bowling? No, he really can’t.

Americans clearly fed up with Obama's empty lies, ask for results!

 

[sangreal]

Lefty42o: I don't understand why you went through all the trouble of verifying the accuracy of what I'm saying, but thanks I guess. Obama was inflating his life story and fabricating a connection that was not factually accurate.

Same thing with the "So don't tell me I don't have a claim on Selma, Alabama" comment. Uh, actually no, you don't--at least, not in the way you falsely claimed.

Both of these examples (Kennedy and Selma) are just over-simplifications. Stupid and misleading, yes, but you're talking about stuff that happened before he was even born. Personally, I give him the benefit of the doubt and believe he was probably just misinformed (not hard to imagine factually questionable stories like this being passed down within a family). I know you won't give him that benefit of the doubt, but even you must not consider this to be on the same level of completely making up personal experiences that supposedly happened 10 years ago.

 

[APF]

no i highlighted the facts your trying to spin. if the Kennedy's had no involvement than yes it would consider it a lie.

Well, since Kennedy didn't have any involvement in BO's arrival--the point of BO jr's story--you're basically admitting you consider it a lie. Noted. BHO is considered one of this generation's greatest political speakers; he wrote an autobiography whose research no doubt delved into matters of how his family arrived in this country and how / when he was born; the notion that this is a mere "mispeak" beggars belief--at least, moreso than comments that Bill Clinton was attacked for making, that literally didn't have anything to do with BO. Again, the hypocrisy is astounding.


sangreal: I think they're only equivalent in the sense that they're both exaggerations / simplifications / lies / whatever in order to bolster a part of their campaign narrative--that's it.

 

[reilo]

/walks into thread

/sees APF rhetoric with enough spin to power a 200mph tornado

/leaves

 

[Jenga]

The patrons kept taking cell phone and camera shots, and urging friends to drive to the bowling alley to catch this scene.

“Let me tell you something,” Obama said to the crowd. “My economic plan is better than my bowling.” A man standing at the next lane called out, “It has to be.”

Mr. Obama laughed and gave him a hug.

Mr. Obama laughed and gave him a hug.

gave him a hug.

!!!!!!!! Obama hugging random strangers? SHOCKING

 

[Tamanon]

!!!!!!!! Obama hugging random strangers? SHOCKING

Could be worse.

 

[APF]

lol

 

[Lefty42o]

Well, since Kennedy didn't have any involvement in BO's arrival--the point of BO jr's story--you're basically admitting you consider it a lie. Noted. BHO is considered one of this generation's greatest political speakers; he wrote an autobiography whose research no doubt delved into matters of how his family arrived in this country and how / when he was born; the notion that this is a mere "mispeak" beggars belief--at least, moreso than comments that Bill Clinton was attacked for making, that literally didn't have anything to do with BO. Again, the hypocrisy is astounding.


sangreal: I think they're only equivalent in the sense that they're both exaggerations / simplifications / lies / whatever in order to bolster a part of their campaign narrative--that's it.

thats the misstatement. that was the original flight of the program and even i thought the kennedy's started the program. their support came less than a year after the first flight and paid for the second flight. it is a clear misstatement.

the Kennedy's were involved in the flight after his dads. a misstatement. get the fuck over yourself. you are hanging the historical accuracy of a participation in a program his dad was a part of from 49 years ago. of when exactly the kennedy's donated money to the program.

your pathetic and every day your sink further into your despair.

 

[ZealousD]

Wow

I didn't expect the Bosnia thing to hurt her significantly, but it seems like that and something else is killing her.

I don't think even the majority of it is the Bosnia thing. I think that the word about the delegate math is getting out. I think people are starting to realize that Hillary is facing a huge uphill battle and that this can only get worse as time goes on.

I think Bosnia might have been the catalyst for the media to address this issue.

 

[quietcrown]

By definition, a lie is a statement uttered with intent to deceive. I don't see any reason to believe that was Obama's intent in these statements, though of course it's possible. He's innocent until proven guilty.

By contrast, it's pretty clear Hillary knew what she was saying veered from the truth. If she had forgotten what actually happened in Tuzla, she wouldn't have brought the landing up both on paper and repeatedly in speech..

 

[APF]

By definition, a lie is a statement uttered with intent to deceive. I don't see any reason to believe that was Obama's intent in these statements, though of course it's possible. He's innocent until proven guilty.

This isn't a court of law; I think the idea that he didn't know the facts of either how his family came to this country, or when he was born defies belief, especially considering he wrote his own highly-acclaimed biography, and his personal history / story is such an integral part of his campaign narrative. Both of these falsehoods are a pretty transparent way to tie himself to things he'd otherwise have little or no connection to; they're clear embellishments for the sake of gaining some small political benefit, ie politics as usual.

 

[thekad]

Wow, APF, you're really tripping over yourself.

 

[APF]

OMG I've lost thekad?? Oh my hubris has finally gotten the better of me

 

[reilo]

OMG I've lost thekad??

No, but you have lost your damn mind.

 

[thekad]

OMG I've lost thekad?? Oh my hubris has finally gotten the better of me

Well you're comparing a mistake, a one year err between two events 40 years ago, to a blatant lie. You call it "disgusting," yet call Hillary's fabrication mere embellishment. I know you're just a troll, but you're usually better than this.

 

[Cheebs]

 

[The Lamonster]

/walks into thread looking for intelligent discussion and today's news in the democratic race

/sees APF rhetoric with enough spin to power a 200mph tornado

/leaves and heads to MSNBC politics page

qft and fixed

 

[quietcrown]

This isn't a court of law; I think the idea that he didn't know the facts of either how his family came to this country, or when he was born defies belief, especially considering he wrote his own highly-acclaimed biography, and his personal history / story is such an integral part of his campaign narrative.

He knew his family came over on this scheme, and he knows the Kennedy's were integral in supporting that scheme, of course, it's not a perfectly valid step on a logical level, but I think most people who knew only those two pieces of information would feel reasonably secure in concluding that the Kennedy's helped bring his family over. Day to day reasoning, of the kind that's essential for living our lives, is not logically watertight. I don't think it's unreasonable to assume he didn't know the history of scheme in high detail. Likewise, it's pretty understandable if he didn't know the year of the Selma marches.

Of course, you may have different standards for what you'd expect him to know and, as such, have every right to disagree with me on this (you may even be right), but I don't think my defense is irrational or clearly flawed. The answer obviously isn't clear and as such, IUPG still stands. It may be a legal principle, and this may not be a court of law, but the alternative, presumption of guilt, is hardly a viable alternative in any situation.

 

[ralexand]

Could be worse.

Where is that pic from?

 

[APF]

He knew his family came over on this scheme, and he knows the Kennedy's were integral in supporting that scheme, of course, it's not a perfectly valid step on a logical level, but I think most people who knew only those two pieces of information would feel reasonably secure in concluding that the Kennedy's helped bring his family over. Day to day reasoning, of the kind that's essential for living our lives, is not logically watertight.

No, I definitely agree that if we were talking about you and me and BO bullshitting on a colloquial level, there'd be nothing at issue here. But this is exactly the sort of thing you uncover when you're, I dono, researching your / your family's history for a book on the subject, or when writing prepared speeches on the political trail for President. That's where the incredulity comes in, IMO.

 

[reilo]

No, I definitely agree that if we were talking about you and me and BO bullshitting on a colloquial level, there'd be nothing at issue here. But this is exactly the sort of thing you uncover when you're, I dono, researching your / your family's history for a book on the subject, or when writing prepared speeches on the political trail for President. That's where the incredulity comes in, IMO.

APF form of logic:

Clinton lies about Bosnia [which, I, as a Bosnian refugee, called her out on it a good while before the news media even picked up on it], and APF calls it a mere "exaggeration" and an "innocent mistake."

Obama makes a mistake about whether or not the Kennedys were directly involved in his father migrating to the United States fifty years ago, and APF calls it "inflating his life story and fabricating a connection that was not factually accurate."

Slow clap.

 

[APF]

Clinton lies about Bosnia [which, I, as a Bosnian refugee, called her out on it a good while before the news media even picked up on it], and APF calls it a mere "exaggeration" and an "innocent mistake."

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10365912&postcount=148

 

[Incognito]

Looks like Obama has officially won Texas. Good to hear.

I spent 15 hours at my State Senate convention yesterday as a delegate for district 25 and let me tell you, words can't describe how much of a utter mess the whole proceeding was. It was reassuring to read that other districts in my area were even more of a clusterfuck, though. I arrived at 8am to sign in only to wait in line till 1145 for my credentials to be verified. Convention was supposed to begin at 2 -- started at 5. We didn't even select our State delegate until 830pm. A useless, nonbinding and irrelevant resolution on whether or not the DNC should sit the Florida and Michigan delegations nearly caused riots. One irrational Clinton supporter rose up to speak in defense only to violate the 2 minute limit at which point I stood up and screamed "She's filibustering!" :lol Two HOURS after that resolution reached its conclusion (after voice vote, standing vote, then precinct vote) things started to roll again. I finally left at 1130pm or so after the umpteenth absurd resolution.

At the beginning, Sean Astin of Lord of the Rings fame came on stage to start things off and he was nearly chased off the stage by all the Obama delegates after he delivered a hysterical and partisan defense of "his" candidate, Hillary Clinton. I haven't seen something that hilarious in a long, long time. Once he finished his love letter to Hillary, dozens of Obama supporters stood up shouting "POINT OF ORDER -- EQUAL TIME!" Only for the presiding official to shot them down. At one point, the temporary chair got into a verbal scuffle with an eldery woman and demanded that her microphone be taken away: "Someone take the microphone away from that woman!"

There was close to 2,000 people in attendance and clearly the organizers were overwhelmed. It was both a great experience and maddening. Being around so many political astute folks was a real treat; people who in the case of some precincts, are literally neighbors you've never met who share your ideals and views. Pretty amazing...

 

[siamesedreamer]

That's where the incredulity comes in, IMO.

No, the incredulity comes in at the mere thought of criticizing the Messiah.

He's simply above reproach.

 

[v1cious]

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0308/9259.html

seriously, how is this woman gonna manage the economy, when she can't even manage her own bills?

 

[Lefty42o]

No, the incredulity comes in at the mere thought of criticizing the Messiah.

He's simply above reproach.

no one said that. infact we all said he made a wrong statement . what we are disputing is it a lie. a outright lie to try and deceive the electorate. and clearly it was not.

 

[APF]

Is it a lie when someone says I called something an "innocent mistake" end-quote when I did no such thing? I'm interested in knowing the Obamapologists' take on this one.

 

[PhoenixDark]

I'm seeing a disgusting pattern of Obama lying about people who aren't alive to challenge his tales. First his grandma, now JFK?

 

[Freedom = $1.05]

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0308/9259.html

seriously, how is this woman gonna manage the economy, when she can't even manage her own bills?

She'll do fine. Deficit spending has been the name of the game for the last 5 years or so. If anything this shows that she has the skills necessary to be C-I-C :lol

 

[reilo]

 

[Hitokage]

I'm sorry, but I actually agree with APF. Those who can't correctly recall this information from when they were newly born are obviously not qualified to be president, and he should know absolutely everything about his parents with his purported people skills.

 

[APF]

I'm seeing a disgusting pattern of Obama lying about people who aren't alive to challenge his tales. First his grandma, now JFK?

Obama is the candidate of change. The dead? Can't change. Sorry dead people.


Hitokage: that's why we have libraries and records, and "research."