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[schuelma]

Bear in mind that Obama has been successful at stymieing funding for many (but not all) 527 groups, true to his word. McCain has given his 527's free reign. If Obama took public funds, this alone would put him at a huge disadvantage. It would mean he would either have to go back on his word about reigning in 527s in order to balance things out (which really would be breaking a pledge), or ceding a major advantage to McCain. Which he's not willing to do (understandably).

Of course this benefits him by leveraging his formidable fund raising network, but it's not the broken pledge you and others are making out to be.

From what I've read, not a single significant pro-McCain 527 has even emerged. Obama is going to have an absolutely huge huge money advantage, whether any 527's come out of the woodwork or not.


Edit- as the AP reports, Obama is actually the candidate that has had outside help with ads already.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

It doesn't have to be the two extremes you two describe.

As for flip-flopping: If he had pledged to use public financing, then he'd be flip-flipping. But he didn't; he pledged to pursue it with his rival. And unless those meetings with McCain's people truly are lies from the Obama camp, he didn't flip-flop.

You know, this reminds me that I'm sick of "Politician changes stance" headlines being grounds for criticism. The motivation behind the switch, as opposed to the act itself, should be where the story is. If the politician's initial stance was intentionally misleading, then the switch is bad only because we were initially lied to. If the switch lacks conviction, and is only due to a need to pander to the opposition, then the switch is bad because it shows an inability to stand behind one's beliefs.

If there's any other reasoning, then I don't understand this gotcha style of political analysis where every change in a political stance is a bad thing. If the person's initial stance was born from ignorance, and he switches to a good position, then this is a good thing. If the person changes to a bad stance, regardless of the motivation, let's criticize the bad stance. I'm so tired of this notion that any and all platform changes are grounds for crucification. The approach of stating "Candidate A just said something different than what he said 5 years ago and we're going to nail them for it!" is one of the many, many things that's wrong with political journalism these days.

 

[GhaleonEB]

From what I've read, not a single significant pro-McCain 527 has even emerged. Obama is going to have an absolutely huge huge money advantage, whether any 527's come out of the woodwork or not.

No major 527's are up and running on either end, that I'm aware of (a few small ones sprouted during the Dem primary, IIRC). They're still in the formative stages. The guy that ran the Swiftboat 527 against Kerry is currently forming a new one to run against Obama. What Obama has done is help to cut off funding for them before they could get up and running. He shut down one of the biggest before it could even get off the ground.

 

[schuelma]

No major 527's are up and running on either end, that I'm aware of (a few small ones sprouted during the Dem primary, IIRC). They're still in the formative stages. The guy that ran the Swiftboat 527 against Kerry is currently forming a new one to run against Obama. What Obama has done is help to cut off funding for them before they could get up and running. He shut down one of the biggest before it could even get off the ground.

Even if that is true, Obama has a significant advantage over McCain with his union support who have already aired anti McCain ads if I'm not mistaken.

 

[sangreal]

Theres been at least two 527s helping McCain -- the one founded by the Willie Horton ad guy, and the one with the one that got McCain's advisers in trouble (the one running the ad with the disabled vet complaining that Obama won't talk to him or Patraeus, etc)

 

[GhaleonEB]

Even if that is true, Obama has a significant advantage over McCain with his union support who have already aired anti McCain ads if I'm not mistaken.

True. It's a big landscape. My point was 1) Obama did not break his "pledge" on public financing, he did what he said he was going to do, and 2) Obama is living up to his word on 527's and is having some success. McCain has no such inclinations.

And of course, McCain is actively breaking public financing laws right now, but that's another story. :lol

 

[schuelma]

True. It's a big landscape. My point was 1) Obama did not break his "pledge" on public financing, he did what he said he was going to do, and 2) Obama is living up to his word on 527's and is having some success. McCain has no such inclinations.

Let's just agree to disagree- I think there a great degree of rationalization going on, but I've said my peace.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Let's just agree to disagree- I think there a great degree of rationalization going on, but I've said my peace.

Um, no. Both of the points above are a matter of public record.

 

[schuelma]

Um, no. Both of the points above are a matter of public record.

:lol :lol Keep suckering me in..

Are you telling me that you are absolutely positive that the Obama camp did all it could to come up with an agreement with the McCain camp? Honestly?


Edit- and I just want to re-iterate again that I don't blame Obama one bit, and McCain would have done the same thing if he was in his shoes. Any politician would.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Strange Juxtaposition of the Day

This is up on the Yahoo News site at the moment, a story about Obama opting out of public financing:

But check out the photo used to illustrate the piece:

There is no mention of bin Laden anywhere in the story.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/200865.php

Bra-vo.

 

[Karma Kramer]

I love watching Fox News and counting how many times they mistake Obama for Osama.

 

[Fragamemnon]

David Brock's American Progressive Media venture to run independent McCain smear ads was killed after Obama made it very clear to big time donors that he didn't want independent 527s as major Democratic media players this cycle. Obama went even further and annexed parts of the DNC operation (which would also act somewhat independently) as well, even though most people agree it won't have a lot of money to throw into the race this year, especially when compared to the RNC.

McCain? He's given GOP 527s free reign this cycle and is using the RNC to cover his campaign fundraising shortfalls.

Honestly, the real smart part about Obama's shutdown of 527s is that his campaign alone will completely control the narrative coming out of the Democratic front. The benefits in terms of message coherency and ad quality standards alone will be enormous.

 

[Tamanon]

Eh, it's a minor flip-flop, nothing consequential. Although I wonder if McCain might get hampered by the FEC because of his off-again, on-again public financing during the primary. Maybe they'll rule that since he's going into public financing for the general also that his previous spending over the primary limits will count against him.

 

[schuelma]

Although I wonder if McCain might get hampered by the FEC because of his off-again, on-again public financing during the primary. Maybe they'll rule that since he's going into public financing for the general also that his previous spending over the primary limits will count against him.

McCain's campaign has been a disorganized mess. It's a miracle he got the nomination.

 

[Tamanon]

I'm starting to think McCain was basically offered up by the RNC as the sacrificial lamb to purge the centrist folks from the party.

 

[schuelma]

I'm starting to think McCain was basically offered up by the RNC as the sacrificial lamb to purge the centrist folks from the party.

Well now that I think about it, the alternatives weren't any better.

 

[Tamanon]

BTW, apparently Obama hasn't spoken out on FISA because they're actually reviewing the document before responding. Should have a response later tonight, I wouldn't be surprised if he calls out the House for it.

Also:

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0608/McCain_aide_plays_sexism_card.html#comments

Responding to the Obama campaign's attempt -- via public email -- to get its campaign counsel, Bob Bauer, onto a McCain campaign conference call, McCain communications director Jill Hazelbaker plays the gender card as openly as Hillary Clinton ever did:

"This type of boys club bullying embodies an arrogance better suited for a frat house than a serious campaign about serious issues," she tells my colleague Jonathan Martin.

In fact, the chains of command at both campaigns -- with Clinton out of the race -- are very male, possibly even including members of fraternities.

Wat?

 

[Kitschkraft]

Dear lord...why in the fuck is Michelle Obama all of a sudden a big issue again?

This shit is so ridiculously fake....I can't believe more people don't see it. When she first made these comments, okay, I can see them covering it, but why in the hell are they pulling this out of nowhere months after the fact? All the major media outlets are on it....this shit is farce, it's like they all got together and said "You know what, this race should be a little bit closer. Lets all gang up on Michelle again!" Fuck the MSM, they can talk all this shit about their so called integrity and focusing on issues and all that shit, but when the smoke clears, they are reporting what people DON'T need to hear.

They are covering this shit like there has been some new controversy surrounding her. She has been relatively quiet for the past few months!

 

[DarkMage619]

The issue with his backing out of the public financing is that he didn't come out with it the right way. For one he should speak out forcefully about how McCain used his pledge to take public financing in the primaries to get his name on the ballot in many states without having to go through the usual petition process. He then backed out after getting his advantage. This to me is much more troubling.

Obama also need hammer on McCains many 'changes of position' since McCain calls it question of trust. At the end of the day Obama backing out the public financing in the general affects his ability to get out his message, and after seeing how many Obama is a muslim, and his wife said whitey claims out there, he has his work cut out for him. McCain backing out of public financing in the primaries got him on the ballot and helped out a campain that was struggling with money. You tell me which is a bigger deal.

The Dark One

 

[Clevinger]

The issue with his backing out of the public financing is that he didn't come out with it the right way. For one he should speak out forcefully about how McCain used his pledge to take public financing in the primaries to get his name on the ballot in many states without having to go through the usual petition process. He then backed out after getting his advantage. This to me is much more troubling.

Obama also need hammer on McCains many 'changes of position' since McCain calls it question of trust. At the end of the day Obama backing out the public financing in the general affects his ability to get out his message, and after seeing how many Obama is a muslim, and his wife said whitey claims out there, he has his work cut out for him. McCain backing out of public financing in the primaries got him on the ballot and helped out a campain that was struggling with money. You tell me which is a bigger deal.

The Dark One

I also wish the Obama camp would point out that McCain broke his own finance law. :lol

 

[CowboyAstronaut]

McCain has no ground to stand on in regards to backing out of previously made promises or positions.

He has some real balls to even accuse Obama of such.

 

[Kitschkraft]

I also wish the Obama camp would point out that McCain broke his own finance law. :lol

Honestly, my fear is that the Obama camp will defend itself (Unlike Kerry), but that they won't attack...I think it's a bit dangerous to place so much responsibility in Americans.

This whole race is becoming very frustrating to me and it's just the beginning! I need to just take a break for a few months and just stop thinking about it or I won't make it....:lol

 

[reilo]

Am I the only one that thought that the chubby guy on Hardball with those big glasses just now was wearing a bad toupee?

 

[Tamanon]

Honestly, my fear is that the Obama camp will defend itself (Unlike Kerry), but that they won't attack...I think it's a bit dangerous to place so much responsibility in Americans.

This whole race is becoming very frustrating to me and it's just the beginning! I need to just take a break for a few months and just stop thinking about it or I won't make it....:lol

Er, Obama has gone on the attack constantly against McCain when confronted on foreign policy and the economy, I don't see why he won't stop now

I mean did you see his response to the September 10th remarks?:lol

I refuse to be lectured on national security by people who are responsible for the most disastrous set of foreign policy decisions in the recent history of the United States. The other side likes to use 9/11 as a political bludgeon. Well, let’s talk about 9/11.

The people who were responsible for murdering 3,000 Americans on 9/11 have not been brought to justice. They are Osama bin Laden, al Qaeda and their sponsors – the Taliban. They were in Afghanistan. And yet George Bush and John McCain decided in 2002 that we should take our eye off of Afghanistan so that we could invade and occupy a country that had absolutely nothing to do with 9/11. The case for war in Iraq was so thin that George Bush and John McCain had to hype the threat of Saddam Hussein, and make false promises that we’d be greeted as liberators. They misled the American people, and took us into a misguided war.

Here are the results of their policy. Osama bin Laden and his top leadership – the people who murdered 3000 Americans – have a safe-haven in northwest Pakistan, where they operate with such freedom of action that they can still put out hate-filled audiotapes to the outside world. That’s the result of the Bush-McCain approach to the war on terrorism.

 

[speculawyer]

Prediction: McCain is going to have enough 'senior moments' and flip-flops by November that he is not going to stand a chance. And if that isn't enough, the economy is probably going to be even worse than it is now by then.

I am looking forward to being able to ignore politics since policy will not be made by a cabal of greedy fundamentalist idiots. I'm sure an Obama administration will make mistakes . . . but they will pale in comparison to the Bush administration. Kinda like the mistake of spooging on an intern pales in comparison with a quagmire war that was launched on the basis of bullshit.

 

[speculawyer]

Dear lord...why in the fuck is Michelle Obama all of a sudden a big issue again?

IMHO . . . it is pure racism. Obama is a light-skinned half-black guy. But Michelle . . . she's black. They are gonna push the 'angry black woman' meme.

 

[Tamanon]

IMHO . . . it is pure racism. Obama is a light-skinned half-black guy. But Michelle . . . she's black. They are gonna push the 'angry black woman' meme.

*deep voice on FOX*

"Michelle Obama is at it again.....and she is sounding ANGRY!"

 

[Kitschkraft]

Er, Obama has gone on the attack constantly against McCain when confronted on foreign policy and the economy, I don't see why he won't stop now

I mean did you see his response to the September 10th remarks?:lol

This was in defense though.

You are probably right, Obama probably has shown more offense then I give him credit for. It's just this fucking media pounding him everyday that sways even my opinion of whats happening.

It seems like when Obama comes out with these strong statements, the media looks at it for maybe half a day, and then it's never heard of again. When McCain makes a statement, it's treated as though he said some shit on biblical levels, to be played and repeated until it's memorized.....:lol

 

[schuelma]

Prediction: McCain is going to have enough 'senior moments' and flip-flops by November that he is not going to stand a chance. And if that isn't enough, the economy is probably going to be even worse than it is now by then.

.

What's really going to do him in is the first time the two are together side by side, talking.

It's going to be like JFK/Nixon times a hundred.

 

[Kitschkraft]

IMHO . . . it is pure racism. Obama is a light-skinned half-black guy. But Michelle . . . she's black. They are gonna push the 'angry black woman' meme.

I agree 100 percent.

The media is disgusting in how they do it to. Even on MSNBC, I see this "Some are claiming that the GOP is trying to paint Michelle Obama as an ANGRY BLACK WOMAN"....it's fucking ridiculous. I imagine it as a gaf post, with someone replying "I see what you did there" every time I see that kind of crap.

 

[Door2Dawn]

What's really going to do him in is the first time the two are together side by side, talking.

It's going to be like JFK/Nixon times a hundred.

I fear that this time around, MCshame will be JFK,and Obama Nixon.

 

[Kitschkraft]

What's really going to do him in is the first time the two are together side by side, talking.

It's going to be like JFK/Nixon times a hundred.

I hope his old ass falls of stage like Bob Dole.

Of course, being Senator McSame, the media would probably just use it as a humor segment like "Opps, and down he goes" type shit, instead of getting into the fact that he grew up with a pet dinosaur.

 

[electricpirate]

Obama could have definately pursued the deal harder, but Jon McCain was never going to shut down his 527s or reign in the RNC. Obama could have used this as such a cudgel though, if he had publicly laid out an agreement that would have dropped some financial advantage, in return for cutting off the 527s ect. When McCain kind of limp wristedly said he can't, Obama could have said, "LOOK UPON WHAT DESTROYS YOUR PUBLIC FINANCING LAWS."

He also could have used the fact that Jon McCain gamed the system in the primaries to better make his case.

Probably wouldn't have mattered though, it would still be "Obama breaks his pledge" as the narrative.

 

[Door2Dawn]

A pet dinosaur would be awesome.

 

[Tamanon]

Obama could have definately pursued the deal harder, but Jon McCain was never going to shut down his 527s or reign in the RNC. Obama could have used this as such a cudgel though, if he had publicly laid out an agreement that would have dropped some financial advantage, in return for cutting off the 527s ect. When McCain kind of limp wristedly said he can't, Obama could have said, "LOOK UPON WHAT DESTROYS YOUR PUBLIC FINANCING LAWS."

He also could have used the fact that Jon McCain gamed the system in the primaries to better make his case.

Probably wouldn't have mattered though, it would still be "Obama breaks his pledge" as the narrative.

The problem with shutting down 527s is that it's not possible to. A candidate can claim to, but they're not legally allowed any contact or coordination with them at all. That's the problem currently.

 

[Deus Ex Machina]

Muslims barred from picture at Obama event

http://dyn.politico.com/printstory.cfm?uuid=9C35D9AD-3048-5C12-001E5E2F7EAC1D85

Two Muslim women at Barack Obama's rally in Detroit Monday were barred from sitting behind the podium by campaign volunteers seeking to prevent the women's headscarves from appearing in photographs or on television with the candidate.

The campaign has apologized to the women, all Obama supporters who said they felt betrayed by their treatment at the rally.

"This is of course not the policy of the campaign. It is offensive and counter to Obama's commitment to bring Americans together and simply not the kind of campaign we run," said Obama spokesman Bill Burton. "We sincerely apologize for the behavior of these volunteers."

Maybe The Volunteers Was Right In Not Letting Those Muslim Women In Photo?

http://www.debbieschlussel.com/archives/2008/06/muslim_grievanc.html#

 

[Tamanon]

Maybe The Volunteers Was Right In Not Letting Those Muslim Women In Photo?

http://www.debbieschlussel.com/archives/2008/06/muslim_grievanc.html#

:lol :lol at suggesting that the Muslim Student Association is part of the Brotherhood. That's just hate-filled spew there.

 

[Kitschkraft]

I would give a knuckle or two to see McSame in this position.

Regarding this financing thing...thank god. Obama is going to campaign McSame under the table. And the so called political "hit" that he has to take will be nothing...it's an issue that most Americans simply won't understand, and thats all there is to it.

Just as the media is constantly trying to say that "Obama won't be able to explain his position on following the constitution in regards to terrorist"..this is the same shit. McSame can whine and moan all he wants about it....it's falling on deaf ears.

 

[reilo]

Cindy McCain: "All I know is that I've always been proud of my country."
Olberman: "Welllll, isn't that SPECIAL?"

:lol

 

[electricpirate]

The problem with shutting down 527s is that it's not possible to. A candidate can claim to, but they're not legally allowed any contact or coordination with them at all. That's the problem currently.

Well yes, but one person basically can, because he runs the Democratic party right now, the other can't because his party fucking hates him.

It's basically a boxout, Obama asks what he can do, but McCain can't, McCain either looks weak and powerless or like a douche for letting that crap through. .

 

[reilo]

Well yes, but one person basically can, because he runs the Democratic party right now, the other can't because his party fucking hates him.

It's basically a boxout, Obama asks what he can do, but McCain can't, McCain either looks weak and powerless or like a douche for letting that crap through. .

McCain't.

 

[sangreal]

Maybe The Volunteers Was Right In Not Letting Those Muslim Women In Photo?

http://www.debbieschlussel.com/archives/2008/06/muslim_grievanc.html#

:lol :lol

btw:

They released a statement about it to The New York Times:

At the rally for Senator Obama in Detroit on Monday, June 16, two volunteers denied us seating behind the stage the Senator would soon take. The volunteers informed us that we were not allowed to sit in that area due to the hijab, the headscarf that each of us was wearing.

This incident was unfortunate and extremely disappointing. Senator Obama has called us each to personally convey his deepest apologies and acknowledge that this was inexcusable. We both immensely appreciate the Senator’s phone call and his commitment to remedy this issue. We commend him for displaying qualities befitting an effective President. We acknowledge that this injustice has been taken seriously and that Senator Obama does not tolerate discrimination against Arabs, Muslims or any community. We are assured that he and his staff are committed to upholding the principles of justice for all peoples and bringing about change we can believe in. The infringement on our rights occurred and has been addressed; now we are ready to move forward. We will continue to support Senator Obama in his campaign and wish him the best as the race continues.

Regards,
Shimaa Abdelfadeel
Hebba Aref

 

[electricpirate]

Maybe The Volunteers Was Right In Not Letting Those Muslim Women In Photo?

http://www.debbieschlussel.com/archives/2008/06/muslim_grievanc.html#

Ahh Debbie Schlussel, the woman who thought the VT massacre was actually a muslim terrorist plot based unrelated images from flikr.

 

[sangreal]

Obama could have definately pursued the deal harder, but Jon McCain was never going to shut down his 527s or reign in the RNC. Obama could have used this as such a cudgel though, if he had publicly laid out an agreement that would have dropped some financial advantage, in return for cutting off the 527s ect. When McCain kind of limp wristedly said he can't, Obama could have said, "LOOK UPON WHAT DESTROYS YOUR PUBLIC FINANCING LAWS."

He also could have used the fact that Jon McCain gamed the system in the primaries to better make his case.

Probably wouldn't have mattered though, it would still be "Obama breaks his pledge" as the narrative.

He has been pushing the deal for months ever since McCain/Hillary brought it up. Nobody cared though, so it was barely picked up by the news. Nobody will care now either

 

[StoOgE]

The problem with shutting down 527s is that it's not possible to. A candidate can claim to, but they're not legally allowed any contact or coordination with them at all. That's the problem currently.

Yeah, but its BS. The way it really works is people on the campaign staff's old buddies run these things. Which means the campaign is running them.. except they can use the 'insulation' provided by McSame's campaign finance reform to pretend to be horrified by these terrible attack ads and condemn them.

Obama was able to shut them down by coming out strong to the DNC and tell them to cut that shit out, and for the most part it was.

McCain could do the same, but he cant fundraise for shit, so he needs them.

 

[Kitschkraft]

Cindy McCain: "All I know is that I've always been proud of my country."
Olberman: "Welllll, isn't that SPECIAL?"

:lol

Cindy McSame is looking more and more unlikable every time I see her.

We have all talked about how Barack has been aged by this campaign, but cot damn, this women is looking BEAT these days. Michelle is much prettier, more intelligent, and wasn't born with a silver spoon in her mouth from money her family got from selling beer.

I can tell from how they both act in the media that Michelle is going to be a good first lady...I don't think she will be the Hillary Clinton "I'm running shit" type, but she's not going to be the Laura Bush "Um...I don't do anything at all" type either.

Cindy looks like a typical trophy wife thats just coming along for the ride.

 

[Tamanon]

http://www.insideradvantagegeorgia....008/6-19-08/Poll_Position_Georgia61919643.php

New InsiderAdvantage / PollPosition survey conducted June 18 of registered likely voters in the November presidential contest shows Sen. John McCain leading Sen. Barack Obama by a single point in Georgia, making the race in Georgia a statistical tie. Libertarian Bob Barr, a former Republican Congressman from Georgia, received 6 percent of the vote.

The telephone survey of 408 registered likely voters is weighted for age, race, gender, and political affiliation. The survey has a margin of error of +/- 5%. It was conducted with InsiderAdvantage’s research partner Majority Opinion Research. PollPosition is InsiderAdvantage’s new branding name (look for additional information and expansion of PollPosition in the coming months).

The Results:

McCain: 44%
Obama: 43%
Barr: 6%
Undecided: 7%

God bless you Babar!

 

[Kitschkraft]

Olberman : It seems odd that Obama made his announcement today, and then suddenly McCain announces 'yes' to the deal.

:lol

 

[Arde5643]

Cindy looks like a typical trophy wife thats just coming along for the ride.

The irony is that it's actually McCain who's the trophy husband of Cindy McCain. :lol

 

[CowboyAstronaut]

Cindy McSame is looking more and more unlikable every time I see her.

We have all talked about how Barack has been aged by this campaign, but cot damn, this women is looking BEAT these days. Michelle is much prettier, more intelligent, and wasn't born with a silver spoon in her mouth from money her family got from selling beer.

I can tell from how they both act in the media that Michelle is going to be a good first lady...I don't think she will be the Hillary Clinton "I'm running shit" type, but she's not going to be the Laura Bush "Um...I don't do anything at all" type either.

Cindy looks like a typical trophy wife thats just coming along for the ride.

You summed it up perfectly.