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PoliGAF Interim Thread of USA General Elections (DAWN OF THE VEEP)

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S

soul creator

Member
scorcho said:
if these polls are actually legit, it's worth considering that Obama's forays to the center hasn't helped his overall numbers at all.
Click to expand...

I actually tend to think that the populace is more "liberal" than most people give them credit for. Which is why it's pretty frustrating for me whenever democrats feel the urge to "go center".
 
S

speculawyer

Member
Is McCain desperate or what? The guy is shooting things out there like a shot gun just hoping he'll hit with something. Drill offshore, $300 million battery prize, McCain loves guns, drill ANWR, gas-tax holiday (never mind he can't actually do it this summer and every economist says it is stupid), etc.

I somewhat appreciate the $300 million battery prize idea, but it is really just another gimmic. Any company that meets the standards he set would eventually collect far more than $300 million from the market anyway.

I think this election is over. McCain is already behind and by the time November rolls around, the economy is probably gonna be in even worse shape and people are gonna be freaking out over paying their massively hiked up heating and gasoline costs. About the only way I see McCain winning is a terrorist attack coupled with more stupidity/fear in the American public.
 
S

speculawyer

Member
theviolenthero said:
I'm sure Obama appreciates all the love he's getting over at the Huffingtonpost. :lol
Click to expand...
HuffPo is clearly massively biased . . . and that is fine as long as people realize it and what they do say is actually true.

I think this differs a lot from Fox where (1) they actually claim to be 'fair & balanced' when they are clearly not and (2) A lot of the stories/editorial they espose is clearly false. How many times did they say they found WMDs in Iraq? Most Fox viewers think real amounts of WMDs were really found in Iraq. And the amount of false information O'Reilly spews is mind-boggling.

If HuffPo posts stories with false info they deserve to be massively criticized for it.
 
T

Tamanon

Banned
Depends on if Barr can get his anti-immigration message out in the South if he'll have any impact over 3%. It helps that both McCain and Obama are on the same side on the traditionally divisive issue.
 
X

xs_mini_neo

Banned
theviolenthero said:
So i go over to huffingtonpost and what do i see as the 3 biggest stories of the week?

Obama Undercuts His Brand
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/06/28/obama-undercuts-his-brand_n_109758.html


Serenity Lost: Obama And The Netroots
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/06/25/serenity-lost-obama-and-t_n_109098.html


Tension In Unity: Clinton Donors Give Obama Cold Shoulder
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/06/27/tension-in-unity-clinton_n_109569.html



I'm sure Obama appreciates all the love he's getting over at the Huffingtonpost. :lol
Click to expand...

There's criticism and there's criticism.

It's important to look for any sense of sympathy in the criticism to get an idea of how criticism is intended. Is it negative in tone, or is it disappointment? Expressing disappointment is a form of love, so he is getting love, just not the super sunshine type.

I think it is now become apparent that Obama has officially jumped the shark in the last week or two. Whether those were his positions from the beginning, or he sold out. He's crossed the point of no return, and now is literally transforming into a Kerry/Bush hybrid. (I threw up in my mouth a little) My urge to vote is fading...fading...fading...

Another thing that's a problem for him is the fact that the attacks on the Clintons were and now McCain will mostly be rehashes of previous attacks from years ago. Obama is at a clear disadvantage here by being the new guy. New guy, new attacks. All the uncertainty around what will happen in Nov is getting to be very troublesome.
 
The Chosen One

The Chosen One

Member
xs_mini_neo said:
I think it is now become apparent that Obama has officially jumped the shark in the last week or two. Whether those were his positions from the beginning, or he sold out. He's crossed the point of no return, and now is literally transforming into a Kerry/Bush hybrid. (I threw up in my mouth a little) My urge to vote is fading...fading...fading...
Click to expand...

I didn't want to say it either because I thought I would get my head bit off around here... But I feel the exact same way.

I'm not naive, I know it's necessary to pander when you're running for President. But I still thought on the margins Obama was going to be a new kind of candidate. At the very least show some real leadership on some of the tough issues.

But lately it seems he's constantly making very convenient political decisions. One or two could be understandable, but the last couple months it seems to be one after another. When he is going to take a principle stand on anything? I think his race speech in Philly was fantastic when he stood up for Reverend Wright, but it's been downhill ever since.

It's getting to the point where it's almost becoming a choice between the lesser of two evils. I was really hoping that wasn't going to be the case again this year.

Obama really needs to be careful because it seems more and more people are starting to feel like me. I'm not a far left liberal either. I'm an Independent who likes to see people who stand up for something and not flip-flop so much when it's politically convenient.

Obama may still win just because the Republicans are in such awful shape this year. But if Obama keeps pandering like this he's going to lose a lot of enthusiasm with new/younger voters and it could hurt turn out and make the election closer than it should.
 
C

Chrono

Banned
http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/06/29/us.iran/index.html


Edit: previous link didn't work.



BulldogWithHeadache.jpg
 
T

TDG

Banned
The Chosen One said:
Obama may still win just because the Republicans are in such awful shape this year. But if Obama keeps pandering like this he's going to lose a lot of enthusiasm with new/younger voters and it could hurt turn out and make the election closer than it should.
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I highly doubt that young voters wll turn away from Obama because he does some political pandering. That doesn't seem like the type of thing that would turn them off.

xs_mini_neo said:
I think it is now become apparent that Obama has officially jumped the shark in the last week or two. Whether those were his positions from the beginning, or he sold out. He's crossed the point of no return, and now is literally transforming into a Kerry/Bush hybrid. (I threw up in my mouth a little) My urge to vote is fading...fading...fading...
Click to expand...
God, some people really see things this black-and-white? You're a change candidate of the future, or you're a Kerry/Bush hybrid? Seriously, come on now.
 
The Chosen One

The Chosen One

Member
the disgruntled gamer said:
I highly doubt that young voters wll turn away from Obama because he does some political pandering. That doesn't seem like the type of thing that would turn them off.
Click to expand...

How did young voters fnd out about Obama in the first place?

Like I said one or two flip-flops might not affect much, but if this continues over the next several months, it could seriously affect the Obama brand and word will get out. Not so much his stands on particular policies, but all it takes if for the phrase "he's just another politician" to take hold.
 
T

TDG

Banned
The Chosen One said:
How did young voters fnd out about Obama in the first place?
Click to expand...
I'd be surprised if young voters were initially attracted to him due to his specific stances on issues. I think it was that he's a youthful, exciting democrat. Who knows, maybe I'm out of touch.

I do agree that if he keeps this up, he will lose the vote of cynical types who see him as truly different. I haven't been happy with his recent pandering, but I'm not ready to throw away the yard sign. But if this continues for quite a while, it may get to the point where he gets my vote and that's it.
 
The Chosen One

The Chosen One

Member
the disgruntled gamer said:
I do agree that if he keeps this up, he will lose the vote of cynical types who see him as truly different. I haven't been happy with his recent pandering, but I'm not ready to throw away the yard sign. But if this continues for quite a while, it may get to the point where he gets my vote and that's it.
Click to expand...

That's kind of where I am. I'm interested to see how things are at the end of August.
 
D

Dahellisdat

Member
the disgruntled gamer said:
I do agree that if he keeps this up, he will lose the vote of cynical types who see him as truly different. I haven't been happy with his recent pandering, but I'm not ready to throw away the yard sign. But if this continues for quite a while, it may get to the point where he gets my vote and that's it.
Click to expand...
Under normal circumstances, the "pandering" would turn me off so such a candidate, but I can't quite pinpoint why it is that I trust that if Obama were president his pandering in the elections would be irrelevent to his decision making as a president.
 
The Chosen One

The Chosen One

Member
As I said, it's necessary to pander to an extent to become President. But at the same time, if he's running as the "Change" candidate he can't do business as usual. At some point he's going to have to demonstrate he's different besides being the "new guy".
 
O

Odrion

Banned
Smiles and Cries said:
Oh come on!!!

this makes my japanese otaku inner geek's heartbroken :(

the fuck
Click to expand...
The monkey is a mascot of theirs, it could just be something innocent being lost in translation.
 
I

Insertia

Member
Dahellisdat said:
Under normal circumstances, the "pandering" would turn me off so such a candidate, but I can't quite pinpoint why it is that I trust that if Obama were president his pandering in the elections would be irrelevent to his decision making as a president.
Click to expand...

Same boat.
I see his pandering as something he has to do to not get slammed moreso. It's a lose/lose situation either way he goes and he knows it. He has to take a few bows to get elected.
I mean, he has to please some people (which means it feels like he's turning his back on others) to get elected. It's necessary.

It's kinda like disowning Rev. Wright. He wasn't a radical pastor, just an outspoken honest guy that said things that went against the grain of traditional America. I doubt Obama disagreed with him, but if he wants in the White House he has to do some pandering and turn his back on the guy. If Wright is a sane man he understands.
 
S

speculawyer

Member
xs_mini_neo said:
I think it is now become apparent that Obama has officially jumped the shark in the last week or two. Whether those were his positions from the beginning, or he sold out. He's crossed the point of no return, and now is literally transforming into a Kerry/Bush hybrid. (I threw up in my mouth a little) My urge to vote is fading...fading...fading...
Click to expand...
All candidates tack to the center after getting the nomination. They just want to get as many people behind them as possible so they can win.
 
C

Cheebs

Member
the disgruntled gamer said:
I'd be surprised if young voters were initially attracted to him due to his specific stances on issues. I think it was that he's a youthful, exciting democrat. Who knows, maybe I'm out of touch.

I do agree that if he keeps this up, he will lose the vote of cynical types who see him as truly different. I haven't been happy with his recent pandering, but I'm not ready to throw away the yard sign. But if this continues for quite a while, it may get to the point where he gets my vote and that's it.
Click to expand...
Most people my age I know couldnt tell you a single policy stance of Obama but they all plan to vote for him in the fall. They think he is cool, exciting, and he seems to be able to connect on a personality basis with their age group
 
T

Tamanon

Banned
speculawyer said:
All candidates tack to the center after getting the nomination. They just want to get as many people behind them as possible so they can win.
Click to expand...

Oddly enough, it seems McCain is tacking to the right so far, but maybe his centralization was lost in the shuffle since it happened during the Dem primary.
 
T

Tamanon

Banned
http://www.politico.com/blogs/jonat...of_possible_09_terrorist_attack.html#comments

Joe Lieberman, appearing on Face the Nation today, made the case for McCain with a blunt reminder.

"Our enemies will test the new president early," said Lieberman. "Remember that the truck bombing of the World Trade Center happened in the first year of the Clinton administration. 9/11 happened in the first year of the Bush administration."

That is some statement -- and one that I doubt Lieberman just hatched over coffee in the Green Room.
Click to expand...

Oh Lieberman.

Although I'd say that the fallout of the first WTC bombing was a LOT better than what hatched out of 9/11, so that kinda works against his point.
 
H

Hitokage

Setec Astronomer
Tamanon said:
Oh Lieberman.

Although I'd say that the fallout of the first WTC bombing was a LOT better than what hatched out of 9/11, so that kinda works against his point.
Click to expand...
The Oklahoma City Bombing was early in Clinton's second term!

Oh wait, only muslims are terrorists...
 
M

maximum360

Member
Karma Kramer said:
Clark is the best pick. I hope he gets it. I have been rooting for him.
Click to expand...

I think the swiftboating of Clark has begun. If you poke holes in the claims/comments of about McCain's actual experience the press (McCain's base) isn't having it. People have made the claims about Obama's followers being mindless followers but seriously, the press is the new McZombie Nation. When Clark made the same claims about McCain's so-called "readiness and experience to be commander in chief" on Morning Joe, Mike Barnacle almost jumped out of his chair to attack Wes Clark.
 
I

Instigator

Banned
maximum360 said:
I think the swiftboating of Clark has begun. If you poke holes in the claims/comments of about McCain's actual experience the press (McCain's base) isn't having it. People have made the claims about Obama's followers being mindless followers but seriously, the press is the new McZombie Nation. When Clark made the same claims about McCain's so-called "readiness and experience to be commander in chief" on Morning Joe, Mike Barnacle almost jumped out of his chair to attack Wes Clark.
Click to expand...

Clark has always been great on paper, but he was such an inept candidate in 2004.
 
C

Cheebs

Member
Instigator said:
Clark has always been great on paper, but he was such an inept candidate in 2004.
Click to expand...
Clark has always been inept "in person". He rarely interviews well and is weak on the stump.
 
T

thekad

Banned
maximum360 said:
I think the swiftboating of Clark has begun. If you poke holes in the claims/comments of about McCain's actual experience the press (McCain's base) isn't having it. People have made the claims about Obama's followers being mindless followers but seriously, the press is the new McZombie Nation. When Clark made the same claims about McCain's so-called "readiness and experience to be commander in chief" on Morning Joe, Mike Barnacle almost jumped out of his chair to attack Wes Clark.
Click to expand...

I only watched for a few seconds, but it looked like they, on Morning Joe today, were attacking Clark today for putting McCain's "experience" under harsher scrutiny. I think they were actually miffed that Clark had the gall to go after McCain.
 
T

Tamanon

Banned
Well, they're basically framing the Clark message as an attack on McCain's patriotism, that's just not what it is, and it makes the whole Kerry episode seem hilarious by contrast.

And LOL at Mika saying this is "one of the most controversial attacks" of the election.:lol
 
S

StoOgE

First tragedy, then farce.
maximum360 said:
I think the swiftboating of Clark has begun. If you poke holes in the claims/comments of about McCain's actual experience the press (McCain's base) isn't having it. People have made the claims about Obama's followers being mindless followers but seriously, the press is the new McZombie Nation. When Clark made the same claims about McCain's so-called "readiness and experience to be commander in chief" on Morning Joe, Mike Barnacle almost jumped out of his chair to attack Wes Clark.
Click to expand...

Yupp, nevermind that he was actually speaking the truth.. being in the military doesnt give you experience to *run* the military any more than working as a patty flipper gives you experience to be CEO of Mcdonalds.
 
M

maximum360

Member
Cheebs said:
Clark has always been inept "in person". He rarely interviews well and is weak on the stump.
Click to expand...

I agree with this. His criticisms though are spot on. Too bad the "liberal" media is the ultra McCain defense force.
 
T

Tamanon

Banned
STEVE DOOCY: Did you know that Barack Obama's middle name is “Hussein?”

BRIAN KILMEADE: I have heard that.

STEVE DOOCY: Yeah. And of course, his father, born Muslim, died an atheist and gave him that middle name. And a lot of people have said, “Well, that's a political liability.” However, there is something interesting that is going on on Facebook where a lot of people are trying to diffuse it as a political liability.

GRETCHEN CARLSON: Yeah, a lot of young folks, Brian, taking “Hussein” as their own middle name now. I find this really interesting. It’s a movement, but it’s several hundred people, so I don’t know how big of a movement it really is. But they’re showing solidarity with Barack Obama. In other words, saying there is nothing wrong with having the middle name of Hussein. So people like Ashley Holmes of Indianapolis, here is her quote, “My name is such a vanilla white girl American name. To show how little meaning Hussein really has I’m choosing to make that my middle name.”

BRIAN KILMEADE: Thanks for the explanation.

GRETCHEN CARLSON: Well, you know, I think that points pretty clearly about how some young people feel about all this. I didn't know that there was anything wrong with having an American name but apparently some people believe that there is.

BRIAN KILMEADE: Yeah, it's vanilla. And what’s wrong with vanilla all of the sudden? Daily Kos, someone blogged on there “We are all Hussein” and wrote this article on Daily Kos, which I think is left wing.

STEVE DOOCY: Sure.

BRIAN KILMEADE: By the way, where did this all come from? Perhaps from a Greek name, “Spartacus.” Remember this?

[Clips from movie Spartacus; many yelling “I am Spartacus”]

STEVE DOOCY: Wait a minute, that was [inaudible]. That wasn’t Spartacus.

BRIAN KILMEADE: That was – it shows a coming together of people, Steve.

STEVE DOOCY: Yeah.

BRIAN KILMEADE: That’s what it shows.

STEVE DOOCY: Alright. And what if you were Uncle Ed and you – that kid was named after you and suddenly, rather than being “Steven Edward Doocy” you were . . . Oh, well.

BRIAN KILMEADE: Steven Spartacus?

STEVE DOOCY: Spartacus.
Click to expand...

FOX News, bringing the smarts.
 
M

maximum360

Member
Fox News said:
STEVE DOOCY: Did you know that Barack Obama's middle name is “Hussein?”

BRIAN KILMEADE: I have heard that.

STEVE DOOCY: Yeah. And of course, his father, born Muslim, died an atheist and gave him that middle name. And a lot of people have said, “Well, that's a political liability.” However, there is something interesting that is going on on Facebook where a lot of people are trying to diffuse it as a political liability.

GRETCHEN CARLSON: Yeah, a lot of young folks, Brian, taking “Hussein” as their own middle name now. I find this really interesting. It’s a movement, but it’s several hundred people, so I don’t know how big of a movement it really is. But they’re showing solidarity with Barack Obama. In other words, saying there is nothing wrong with having the middle name of Hussein. So people like Ashley Holmes of Indianapolis, here is her quote, “My name is such a vanilla white girl American name. To show how little meaning Hussein really has I’m choosing to make that my middle name.”

BRIAN KILMEADE: Thanks for the explanation.

GRETCHEN CARLSON: Well, you know, I think that points pretty clearly about how some young people feel about all this. I didn't know that there was anything wrong with having an American name but apparently some people believe that there is.

BRIAN KILMEADE: Yeah, it's vanilla. And what’s wrong with vanilla all of the sudden? Daily Kos, someone blogged on there “We are all Hussein” and wrote this article on Daily Kos, which I think is left wing.

STEVE DOOCY: Sure.

BRIAN KILMEADE: By the way, where did this all come from? Perhaps from a Greek name, “Spartacus.” Remember this?

[Clips from movie Spartacus; many yelling “I am Spartacus”]

STEVE DOOCY: Wait a minute, that was [inaudible]. That wasn’t Spartacus.

BRIAN KILMEADE: That was – it shows a coming together of people, Steve.

STEVE DOOCY: Yeah.

BRIAN KILMEADE: That’s what it shows.

STEVE DOOCY: Alright. And what if you were Uncle Ed and you – that kid was named after you and suddenly, rather than being “Steven Edward Doocy” you were . . . Oh, well.

BRIAN KILMEADE: Steven Spartacus?

STEVE DOOCY: Spartacus.
Click to expand...

It's only these clowns that can turn a positive thing like this into making that case that "Obama supporters" are somehow anti-American.
 
C

Cyan

Banned
STEVE DOOCY: Alright. And what if you were Uncle Ed and you – that kid was named after you and suddenly, rather than being “Steven Edward Doocy” you were . . . Oh, well.
Click to expand...
Oh God, won't somebody think of the children's uncles?
 
W

worldrunover

Member
maximum360 said:
It's only these clowns that can turn a positive thing like this into making that case that "Obama supporters" are somehow anti-American.
Click to expand...

Awesome straw man there in the bolded part. If they had a book of "straw men for beginners" that would be in it.
 
C

Cuu

Member
Pulling out of Iraq, not pulling out of Iraq - do what's right at the time. At least Obama wants out, and knows we were there for the wrong reasons.


So, I decided to watch Fox last night. Sometimes it's funny, sometimes it's just downright depressing. Hannity had a JAG lawyer that was at Guantanamo coming on saying that Gitmo was more like a boy's summer camp, or field trip than a prison.

Now I'm seeing people saying the situation in Iraq is "stabilizing" ? What does "stabilizing" mean? Getting better. Doesn't take much to get better than it was. -shrug-

Are people seriously trying to paint a pretty picture of everything that's going on right now?
 
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