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[Dan]

Swing voters sadly don't. They want to be pandered to and told answers in a yes or no fashion.

I'm sitting in a room full of people who complain that politicians lie, over promise and pander. They're all voting McCain, without question.

One of the men in this room also declared that Russia should be kicked out of the Olympics and promptly nuked into oblivion.

 

[reilo]

I'm sitting in a room full of people who complain that politicians lie, over promise and pander. They're all voting McCain, without question.

One of the men in this room also declared that Russia should be kicked out of the Olympics and promptly nuked into oblivion.

 

[MaddenNFL64]

The pundits are picking McCain because the crowd was on his side. They were very polite to Obama, and he got a spatter of praise on many issues, but McCain didn't say shit & they treated him like he said something profound.

 

[GhaleonEB]

The pundits are picking McCain because the crowd was on his side. They were very polite to Obama, and he got a spatter of praise on many issues, but McCain didn't say shit & they treated him like he said something profound.

And to be fair, these really are a very conservative group. IIRC, they're polling something like 75-25 for McCain.

 

[grandjedi6]

Obama -- The President America needs, but not the President we deserve

 

[SoulPlaya]

I don't even understand why half of these questions were even asked. What is the President going to do about gay marriage, what is he going to do about abortion in a Democrat controlled congress? Why do so many Americans view the President as some kind of all powerful dictator?

 

[reilo]

I don't even understand why half of these questions were even asked. What is the President going to do about gay marriage, what is he going to do about abortion in a Democrat controlled congress? Why do so many Americans view the President as some kind of all powerful dictator?

Faith based forum, dude.

 

[Byakuya769]

Obama -- The President America needs, but not the President we deserve

Heh, you've been sadly absent lately.. what's up?

 

[SoulPlaya]

Faith based forum, dude.

These same kind of questions get asked in real debates.


Honestly, am I the only one who gets mad when I hear someone say, "If I was President, then I would do this. . . . " or "If I was President, then I would do that. . . " I'm just like "ugh, the President doesn't have that kind of power."

 

[grandjedi6]

Heh, you've been sadly absent lately.. what's up?

Summer time dude! Camping, relaxation, rafting. The works.

 

[SouthernDragon]

"Was the President successful in convincing the country?" Who gives a shit? Why not tell us if what he said was true?-Jon Stewart, America (A Citizen's Guide to Democracy Inaction)

Switch President with McCain, and the statement holds up. This is the problem with the media today. "Who won? Who convinced the public? Were they effective in getting their message across?" This is political tabloid material.

Ask real questions. Use the candidate's histories against them. For God's sake, do your god damn jobs. You are political analysts, you don't even have the "they say it, we report it" excuse the school of stenographer journalists have. You are supposed to analyze their statements. If you want to include the effect on the people, fine, but that's fluff or something for the pollsters.

Jeez.

 

[Ventrue]

"Was the President successful in convincing the country?" Who gives a shit? Why not tell us if what he said was true?-Jon Stewart, America (A Citizen's Guide to Democracy Inaction)

That book is awesome. "In 1439, Johannes Gutenberg invented the printing press. His invention would later be used to publicly identify rape victims."

 

[Frank the Great]

Here's a prediction: Colin Powell is going to endorse Barack Obama.

I'm not pulling this out of thin air. I'm basing my forecast on a series of phone calls that I received this week. I can't say who called me, but I can tell you one of the questions I was asked:

"What do you think the reaction would be if former Secretary of State Colin Powell - a Republican - introduced Democrat Obama at his big acceptance speech at Mile High Stadium after being made the nominee?"

My reply: "It would seal the deal. It would be the presidency."

I don't think Powell will go to Denver for the Democratic National Convention, but based on the recent conversations, I have to believe that something big is in the works.

talk about an exaggeration. interesting nonetheless.

 

[reilo]

talk about an exaggeration. interesting nonetheless.

Yeah, the GOP is gonna throw their hands up and go "well, shit, Powell endorsed him, this shit is over!"

In reality, the GOP will smear Powell to the nth degree and proclaim him a child raping scientologist jihad.

 

[Frank the Great]

By the way, I hope that how the media reacted to the faith forum tonight is a wake-up call for those of you expecting the debates to be game-changers.

 

[reilo]

By the way, I hope that how the media reacted to the faith forum tonight is a wake-up call for those of you expecting the debates to be game-changers.

The problem with tonight's forum was that the candidates were separated and in a very pro-McCain [75-25 split] crowd. The debates will be on neutral ground.

The questions weren't lopsided to one candidate more than the other, just that the atmosphere lent itself to it being pro-McCain.

These weren't debates - these were civil discussions - and for McCain, a stump speech rehearsal.

It will be extremely different for McCain to have to actual rebut Obama's talking points - tonight John pandered to an audience with their legs wide open ready for penetration.

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

By the way, I hope that how the media reacted to the faith forum tonight is a wake-up call for those of you expecting the debates to be game-changers.

It seems like all this is is just an appeal to independents basically.

 

[The Chosen One]

Not that Obama is above politics. Far from it. But he is moving the ball forward in terms of making it less filthy and mindless. But honestly Americans complain, complain, and complain but in the end they really prefer politics as usual. They want to be pandered to. They want everything to be black and white. And they want entire policies and view points packaged into nice little sound bites.

As for the media, I don't think they're for or against Obama. I think they're just stupid for the most part. They're just incapable of doing real analysis because they can't see the forest beyond the trees. They get too caught up in narratives (basically the media's version of talking points). Many of these tv analyst are clueless if they stray too far away from the narrative because it means they would have had to conduct some real analysis.

Finally, I hate these immediate post-debate "Who won, who lost!" horse-race crap. They don't give a chance for the viewer to soak in what they just saw. Instead they get spin disguised as analysis. A viewer who thought Obama did pretty good, has Pat Buchanan tell him within 5 seconds of the debate ending that McCain won with short direct answers and Obama was off his game with long winded answers. They can really change the perception of the debates. That's why it's really spin not analysis.

 

[tanod]

It will be extremely different for McCain to have to actual rebut Obama's talking points - tonight John pandered to an audience with their legs wide open ready for penetration.

ewww

 

[Dartastic]

Youtube. Duh. =/

 

[Clevinger]

It will be extremely different for McCain to have to actual rebut Obama's talking points - tonight John pandered to an audience with their legs wide open ready for penetration.

I think it could go either way. He could blatantly lie and be a huge asshole like he was in the primary debates and the media won't bat an eye.

 

[polyh3dron]

When the fuck did talking about things at length with knowledge become bad?

 

[Karma Kramer]

Any place I can watch this on the internet. Plan on getting high and this would be amazing to watch.

 

[TheGrayGhost]

Having just watched more of the forum, I think McCain will be interpreted to have had more charisma and eloquence than Obama, which is just plain pathetic. McCain's narrow statements and thoughts are being met with applause, I think his brevity will be interpreted as self-assurance and presidential and will be contrasted against Obama.

Bottom line, McCain did well tonight. Although he was advantaged by a decidedly biased crowd, if he can keep this up, this image and perception, Obamaniacs (like myself) will have a lot to worry about.

 

[Byakuya769]

I would like to commend Rick Warren for this forum and its apparent objective. Hearing Warren speak of being "pro full life" instead of constantly being hung up on the debate over abortion is refreshing to me as a christian...

However, watching this forum unfold and the commentaries of the political "analysis" afterwards has made me utterly sick. After watching Obama take deep questions of faith and politics seriously, and answering said questions in length with respect to his faith and his political opinions. I was sure that the stupid pundits would take note and speak about possible evangelical in-roads he may have created.

Instead I get to see McCain skate through questions, generally only "answering" with POW stories and stump speak. Yet the crowd goes wild. Predictable, yes, but honestly gut wrenching. These people of faith honestly sat through that mess and were pandered to and could not even tell. I was sure that McCain's "go to church on sunday" faith would have been easily apparent to them all, but apparently in that respect he was preaching to the choir.

Even more despicable were the pundits crediting McCain with some sort of win. Virtually calling Obama long winded and misusing the word "nuance" like a bunch of sheep bleating in unison. Going as far to talk up the bull shit "straight talk express". I mean what the hell, he didn't answer any fucking questions. His story of what his faith meant to him on a daily bases turned about to be about his POW time. I bet many a person would pray to God when they're getting tortured. Not to disrespect the fact that he was a POW, but big fucking deal you found religion when you had NOTHING ELSE TO TURN TO. Then he gets to gloss over his divorce as if it was a case of not trying hard enough or something. Tell the whole story McCain.

Okay... don't tell the whole story McCain, let the press call you on it and do it for you. Nope, did not get that. Instead we get some bullshit explanation of how McCain's succint "answer" to his moral depravity is a testament to his generation, and contrasts it to Obama being a part of the Oprah generation.

I honestly do not know what is worse. The fact that these cable news outlets have decided to create their own narrative, or the fact that sadly a large number of Americans are dumb enough to fall for it daily.

What the fuck.

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

I would like to commend Rick Warren for this forum and its apparent objective. Hearing Warren speak of being "pro full life" instead of constantly being hung up on the debate over abortion is refreshing to me as a christian...

However, watching this forum unfold and the commentaries of the political "analysis" afterwards has made me utterly sick. After watching Obama take deep questions of faith and politics seriously, and answering said questions in length with respect to his faith and his political opinions. I was sure that the stupid pundits would take note and speak about possible evangelical in-roads he may have created.

Instead I get to see McCain skate through questions, generally only "answering" with POW stories and stump speak. Yet the crowd goes wild. Predictable, yes, but honestly gut wrenching. These people of faith honestly sat through that mess and were pandered to and could not even tell. I was sure that McCain's "go to church on sunday" faith would have been easily apparent to them all, but apparently in that respect he was preaching to the choir.

Even more despicable were the pundits crediting McCain with some sort of wind. Virtually calling Obama long winded and misusing the word "nuance" like a bunch of sheep bleating in unison. Going as far to talk up the bull shit "straight talk express". I mean what the hell, he didn't answer any fucking questions. His story of what his faith meant to him on a daily bases turned about to be about his POW time. I bet many a person would pray to God when they're getting tortured. Not to disrespect the fact that he was a POW, but big fucking deal you found religion when you had NOTHING ELSE TO TURN TO. Then he gets to gloss over his divorce as if it was a case of not trying hard enough or something. Tell the whole story McCain.

Okay... don't tell the whole story McCain, let the press call you on it and do it for you. Nope, did not get that. Instead we get some bullshit explanation of how McCain's succint "answer" to his moral depravity is a testament to his generation, and contrasts it to Obama being a part of the Oprah generation.

I honestly do not know what is worse. The fact that these cable news outlets have decided to create their own narrative, or the fact that sadly a large number of Americans are dumb enough to fall for it daily.

What the fuck.

When I heard her said the bolded on CNN tonight, I was like, how the fuck do you know? You are younger than Obama. I had to turn it off then. All they cared about was hearing McCain say he was pro-life.

 

[Byakuya769]

When I heard her said the bolded on CNN tonight, I was like, how the fuck do you know? You are younger than Obama. I had to turn it off then. All they cared about was hearing McCain say he was pro-life.

Yea, my wife and I committed simultaneous face palms. It was pretty damn ridiculous. I think the majority of gaf posters are just as qualified to be a talking head as this "senior correspondents" and shit.

 

[TheGrayGhost]

I would like to commend Rick Warren for this forum and its apparent objective. Hearing Warren speak of being "pro full life" instead of constantly being hung up on the debate over abortion is refreshing to me as a christian...

However, watching this forum unfold and the commentaries of the political "analysis" afterwards has made me utterly sick. After watching Obama take deep questions of faith and politics seriously, and answering said questions in length with respect to his faith and his political opinions. I was sure that the stupid pundits would take note and speak about possible evangelical in-roads he may have created.

Instead I get to see McCain skate through questions, generally only "answering" with POW stories and stump speak. Yet the crowd goes wild. Predictable, yes, but honestly gut wrenching. These people of faith honestly sat through that mess and were pandered to and could not even tell. I was sure that McCain's "go to church on sunday" faith would have been easily apparent to them all, but apparently in that respect he was preaching to the choir.

Even more despicable were the pundits crediting McCain with some sort of win. Virtually calling Obama long winded and misusing the word "nuance" like a bunch of sheep bleating in unison. Going as far to talk up the bull shit "straight talk express". I mean what the hell, he didn't answer any fucking questions. His story of what his faith meant to him on a daily bases turned about to be about his POW time. I bet many a person would pray to God when they're getting tortured. Not to disrespect the fact that he was a POW, but big fucking deal you found religion when you had NOTHING ELSE TO TURN TO. Then he gets to gloss over his divorce as if it was a case of not trying hard enough or something. Tell the whole story McCain.

Okay... don't tell the whole story McCain, let the press call you on it and do it for you. Nope, did not get that. Instead we get some bullshit explanation of how McCain's succint "answer" to his moral depravity is a testament to his generation, and contrasts it to Obama being a part of the Oprah generation.

I honestly do not know what is worse. The fact that these cable news outlets have decided to create their own narrative, or the fact that sadly a large number of Americans are dumb enough to fall for it daily.

What the fuck.

It's depressing. Honestly, I think the scales have tipped in McCain's favor tonight. I disagree with his basic principles and policies (for the most part), but he did come out looking better than Obama. I think this event may be a game changer.

 

[reilo]

It's depressing. Honestly, I think the scales have tipped in McCain's favor tonight. I disagree with his basic principles and policies (for the most part), but he did come out looking better than Obama. I think this event may be a game changer.

Are you a news media pundit by any chance?

 

[Byakuya769]

Are you a news media pundit by any chance?

hahahaha, going by his earlier post.. I think he means he looks better by virtue of the media giving him the win. Also, McCain dumbing it down seemed to help him as well.

Though it doesn't seem like the American people get to decide who won or was more honest before cable news does it for them.

 

[TheGrayGhost]

Are you a news media pundit by any chance?

I agree that his replies were all very one-dimensional and that he was advantaged by a biased crowd, but this narrative the media will undoubtedly construct will, I think, have a lot of sway in favor of McCain. As others have said, to the channel-surfing, dimwitted American voters, McCain's narrow thinking will appear Presidential contrasted against Obama's more thoughtful and diplomatic answers. Which of the two will people respond to? I hope the latter, but I don't have a lot of faith.

 

[SouthernDragon]

Obama's going to have to learn how to condense his intelligence for general consumption.

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

I agree that his replies were all very one-dimensional and that he was advantaged by a biased crowd, but this narrative the media will undoubtedly construct will, I think, have a lot of sway in favor of McCain. As others have said, to the channel-surfing, dimwitted American voters, McCain's narrow thinking will appear Presidential contrasted against Obama's more thoughtful and diplomatic answers. Which of the two will people respond to? I hope the latter, but I don't have a lot of faith.

Most people get their media from local news. While their acts are deplorable, their reach isn't that strong compared to other ways to receive news.

 

[TheGrayGhost]

Most people get their media from local news. While their acts are deplorable, their reach isn't that strong compared to other ways to receive news.

You may be right. I doubt anyone would really pay attention before the conventions, especially since there are better things to do on a Saturday night. After the conventions, this event will be long past us, and a new narrative will be constructed. I do have to give somne credit to McCain, he wasn't as bumbling as I thought he would be. In fact, quite the contrary. Maybe it's all the town meetings and stump speeches he's given, or maybe it was thorough preparation and/or rehearsal, but he was linguistically clear and quick.

 

[SouthernDragon]

Considering Phelps was on tonight, and Olympic coverage began at 8...

Weirdly enough, I'm glad this was ignored.

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

You may be right. I doubt anyone would really pay attention before the conventions, especially since there are better things to do on a Saturday night. After the conventions, this event will be long past us, and a new narrative will be constructed. I do have to give somne credit to McCain, he wasn't as bumbling as I thought he would be. In fact, quite the contrary. Maybe it's all the town meetings and stump speeches he's given, or maybe it was thorough preparation and/or rehearsal, but he was linguistically clear and quick.

That isn't hard to do when you go back to the same tried and true story that has pulled you through life.

 

[ZealousD]

Yeah, the GOP is gonna throw their hands up and go "well, shit, Powell endorsed him, this shit is over!"

In reality, the GOP will smear Powell to the nth degree and proclaim him a child raping scientologist jihad.

"This isn't the Colin Powell we know."

 

[Byakuya769]

"This isn't the Colin Powell we know."

They may just point out that they're both black and leave it at that.

 

[mj1108]

That isn't hard to do when you go back to the same tried and true story that has pulled you through life.

Yup, the 8,000th time telling a POW story is a little easier than the 7,999th time.

 

[polyh3dron]

NO.

Fuck all these people buying the cable news channels' bullshit.

Obama did a way better job answering those questions. You can't say that he "lost" based on the fact that the crowd was stupid enough to buy McCain's BULLSHIT PANDERING.

Straight Talk Express my ass.

McCain's getting to be as bad with this POW shit as Giuliani got with the 9/11 shit.

 

[Verano]

It seems GAF is pissed that the people who attended the forums went wild for McCain.

Earlier in the Fox 11 news, there was this Republican white lady who preferred Obama over McCain because McCain used soundbytes and she couldn't stand listening to his life story again. She mentioned that Obama explained the issues more thorough rather than just pandering the crowd.

That's just one republican overall. I assume there are at least 10 people who wasn't won over by McCain's speech.

 

[polyh3dron]

Earlier in the Fox 11 news, there was this Republican white lady who preferred Obama over McCain because McCain used soundbytes and she couldn't stand listening to his life story again. She mentioned that Obama explained the issues more thorough rather than just pandering the crowd.

I'm surprised Fox didn't cut out her tongue so as to stop news of this anomaly from spreading.

...oh wait, it was local affiliate Fox, not "Faux Neus Channel"

 

[maximum360]

I would have thought before that Obama would have had a fair shot after the debates if he gave thoughtful answers to questions and avoided using his stump speech and ancedotes but I seriously doubt that now. It's like the media has become so used to candidates avoiding questions, being dogmatic in their responses, and using their stump speech in response to most questions that the candidate is graded on how well they do that than in actually answering the question honestly and thoughtfully.

Obama will just have to play their game for now and start modeling his responses after Hillary (who as well sounded more rehearsed but was way more articulate and intelligent in her responses than McCain ever will be). Obama just has to keep the media at bay long enough to win the election and then throw them all under the bus for being the useless trolls that they are.

I even talked to an older guy today who's been in politics on some level for a good portion of his life. He likes Obama and dislikes Hillary a great deal. However he's also partial to McCain. It doesn't matter that McCain has flopped all over himself and sold out on his ideals to win the nomination since this guy's opinion of McCain stems of McCain's former years being touted as a "Maverick". (Honestly though, as I watched him in the senate in responding to people McCain comes off as a pompous jerk. You can also tell that the last eight years have done him no favors as he's not even close to being as "sharp" as he was before.)

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

It seems GAF is pissed that the people who attended the forums went wild for McCain.

Earlier in the Fox 11 news, there was this Republican white lady who preferred Obama over McCain because McCain used soundbytes and she couldn't stand listening to his life story again. She mentioned that Obama explained the issues more thorough rather than just pandering the crowd.

That's just one republican overall. I assume there are at least 10 people who wasn't won over by McCain's speech.

Is there a link on a website to this?

 

[mj1108]

It seems GAF is pissed that the people who attended the forums went wild for McCain.

No, we all knew that it was a McCain favored crowd to begin with. We're mostly pissed at the talking heads of all 3 cable news networks all slobbering over McCain as though he said something groundbreaking.... when all McCain did was either tell POW stories or refer to his stump speeches. Obama on the other hand actually gave insightful answers.

 

[Hitokage]

Obama's going to have to learn how to condense his intelligence for general consumption.

You mean his speeches that were supposedly without substance?

 

[Chrono]

Chuck Todd agrees: Americans are generally stupid, shallow, anti-intellectual idiots.

OMG you racist hateful ignorant bigot don't generalize it's a tiny minority - oh, wait. Carry on.

 

[worldrunover]

You guys are probably overestimating the impact of this... 8pm on a Saturday on cable isn't exactly prime TV watching... there will be some discussion of this, but it's still summer, with the olympics and back to school and the whole thing, last night will fly under the majority of America's radar.

 

[maximum360]

Ugh! David Gregory hosting Meet The Press today. Let the Obama bashing commence.

 

[maximum360]

Kaine seems to be doing a decent job so far despite Gregory cutting him off midsentence. Then Gregory lobs soft balls to Jindal. I'm beyond relieved that Gregory won't be hosting Meet The Press in the long run.