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[platypotamus]

His answer reeks of "Maybe, and by maybe I really mean 'no, but I want to keep your attention and hopes up'".

 

[GhaleonEB]

His answer reeks of "Maybe, and by maybe I really mean 'no, but I want to keep your attention and hopes up'".

Nah, it reeks of "sure we can do that, but only if I sign off on the changes. I'm the motherfucking Chairman, rawr."

Same shit, different committee.

 

[The Librarian]

Ezra Klein summarizes the state of healthcare, with confirmation of the single most important thing: Kent Conrad, who oversees the budget reconciliation process, is open to using it for healthcare.


Let the negotiations begin (again).

Huzzah!

 

[mckmas8808]

Ezra Klein summarizes the state of healthcare, with confirmation of the single most important thing: Kent Conrad, who oversees the budget reconciliation process, is open to using it for healthcare.


Let the negotiations begin (again).

Great! We back on. 4th and goal with 3 yards to go.

Dax01 we still have hope man! Come on House Dems do it for America.

 

[RurouniZel]

So, there's too much stuff for me to process here.

On a scale of 1-10, how fucked are we? 1 being no change, 10 being "you might want to step up the Japanese lessons".

 

[PhoenixDark]

Ezra Klein summarizes the state of healthcare, with confirmation of the single most important thing: Kent Conrad, who oversees the budget reconciliation process, is open to using it for healthcare.


Let the negotiations begin (again).

Is he the dungeon master of the process or something? ie, if he doesn't support something that would be put through reconciliation (like a medicare buy in) could he block the entire process?

 

[Manmademan]

So, there's too much stuff for me to process here.

On a scale of 1-10, how fucked are we? 1 being no change, 10 being "you might want to step up the Japanese lessons".

Actually, if Coakley losing means someone grows a god damned pair of balls and forces through the changes that needed to be made via reconciliation, rather than try to pass a weaker bill by appeasing Lieberman and the blue dogs then I'd say we're better off.

 

[Blackhead]

I remember, there was a time, after the 08 election, when I longed for this thread to return to the traffic of the election, felt it had gotten too slow.

WTF was I thinking?

.

Well...
Shit

.

WEll this thread was certainly an entertaining read while drinking my morning coffee. One statement I NEVER want to read again is how PoliGAF leans far-Left. The last 10 or so pages prove the ideological PoliGAF split is 60% Dem 40% Repub.

And really, Brown winning is no surprise. The economy is still in the shitter and the best thing people can say about the HCR bill is "It's better than nothing".

Dems and Obama should be scared as fuck right now.

.

The Massachusetts special election in graph form

That graph is from Joshua Tucker, and it's worth thinking about a bit. The reaction to the Massachusetts special election is obviously about the grim prospects of 2010 rather than the loss of one seat. The psychological impact on congressional Democrats of losing Ted Kennedy's seat is akin to the impact Lehman's fall had on Wall Street -- it means nobody is safe.

But this is, still, just the loss of one seat, in one race. Martha Coakley's campaign was a carousel of gaffes and lethargy. Scott Brown ran a skilled effort presenting himself as a handsome independent. The difference between the two candidates was about 100,000 votes. That's not to deny the obvious role that dissatisfaction with Obama, the Democrats, and the state of the country played in this race. But I don't know anyone -- literally, anyone -- who doesn't believe a better Democratic candidate could have held the seat in Massachusetts.

For that reason, perceptions really are everything here. And Democrats seem determined to lose control of them. If Democrats had pointed to something like the graph above, lamented losing such an important seat due to the failures of their woeful candidate, but shrugged it off and promised to take it back in 2010, this would still be a big story, but the media would be hard-pressed to make it a big deal. If Democrats had reacted to Brown's victory by angrily attacking the Republicans for holding up and continually distorting the party's central legislative initiative, it would have been trivially easy to explain the Massachusetts special election in terms of how important it is for Democrats to pass health-care reform, rather than how important it is for them to wait. And if Democrats were still en route to passing health care next week, the Brown story would seen be on its way out of the headlines.

Instead, Democrats, with 59 votes in the Senate and a 40-vote margin in the House, seem ready to treat Brown's election as if they just lost the majority. That's in their head, of course, rather than in last night's election results. But if they don't get out of that mindset, then it's pretty sure to be in November's election results.

.

PoliGAF Thread of The Massachusetts Massacre of The Uninsured

PoliGAF Thread of Part 2: The Empire Strikes Back

PoliGAF Thread of PRESIDENT OBAMA Tossing His List in the Bin

PoliGAF Thread of PRESIDENT OBAMA Tending His Garden and Waiting for 2012

PoliGAF Thread of The ADHD Progressive's Gift of Gridlock

PoliGAF Thread of PRESIDENT OBAMA Checkin' Off His List of Democrats holding seats in the Government

PoliGAF Thread of People Talking

not sure what ot make of the poll though, because its just stupidity on paper.

Dems arent doing enough to challenge republicans in congress, so lets... vote in a republican. It doesnt make sense to me.

When a voting for a third party has been shamed as useless behavior, the republicans (or 'independent') remains the only protest option

Republican party: Bunch of old men who only no
Democratic party: Bunch of idealist hippies who can't say no.


Dem majority: We want to pass this bill
Republicans: No
D: We will!
R: No.
D: Fine, we'll make some changes
R: No
D: More changes!
R: No.
D: Fine, we give up.

Democrat voters: Fuck you democrats, Im not voting for you again.




Republican majority: We want to pass this patriot act bill
D: We don't like it
R: We're passing it.
D: Let's make changes?
R: No
D: But we don't like it
R: We don't care
D: Just this one amendment...
R: No
D: Please?
R: No.
D: Fine, we'll agree to it.

Democrat voters: Fuck you democrats, Im not voting for you again

✌ ⎦˚◡˚⎣ ✌

Dem talking point memo leaked


http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/01/dem-talking-points-were-screwed.php

Seriously?

They sound like republicans just took over the senate. This is pathetic

.

I hate the fact that 41 > 59, robbing our government of the ability to, um, govern.

I hate the fact that Democrats are partly corrupt, but are thoroughly cowardly.

I hate the fact that we have a president that is refusing to lead.



:lol :lol :lol

...

The Democrats reaction to the Brown election yesterday is dishearteningly expected. Rather than rally to pass their signature issue - which they can do - they're running for the hills, where voters will knock them off en masse in November.

Ezra Klein has at least four excellent columns up already today. And the primary sentiment I agree with is that if Dems run for the hills and don't pass healthcare now, it will be a complete betrayal to their base. And they'll get wiped out in November, 1994-style. And they'll deserve it.

On the subject of what could be done, but won't, from Ezra Klein:


Not ideal. But it would be one hell of a start.

Ezra Klein summarizes the state of healthcare, with confirmation of the single most important thing: Kent Conrad, who oversees the budget reconciliation process, is open to using it for healthcare.


Let the negotiations begin (again).

Ezra Klein?! I guess even a broken clock is right twice a day.

 

[mckmas8808]

So, there's too much stuff for me to process here.

On a scale of 1-10, how fucked are we? 1 being no change, 10 being "you might want to step up the Japanese lessons".

Depends if you are a person that wants HCR passed or not. What side are you asking from?

 

[RurouniZel]

Depends if you are a person that wants HCR passed or not. What side are you asking from?

I want HCR passed yesterday.

 

[mckmas8808]

I want HCR passed yesterday.

Okay if that's the case then I'd say things are sitting at a 3. It's bad, but consider that last night things were at a 1.

By the end of this weekend we should know if things will actually be pass a 5 or not.

 

[RurouniZel]

Okay if that's the case then I'd say things are sitting at a 3. It's bad, but consider that last night things were at a 1.

By the end of this weekend we should know if things will actually be pass a 5 or not.

Okay, I just wanted to make sure. Places like CNN and MSNBC are making it seem like it's the end of Obama's presidency or something.

 

[Gruco]

I wonder how many newscasters have been pointing out that there is now 1 more member in the Dem Caucus than there was when Obama took office.

 

[PhoenixDark]

I wonder how many newscasters have been pointing out that there is now 1 more member in the Dem Caucus than there was when Obama took office.

I heard Chuck Todd say Obama was in a worse position than he was upon taking office. :lol

 

[mckmas8808]

I heard Chuck Todd say Obama was in a worse position than he was upon taking office. :lol

And this is the shit that making me not watch cable news today (I did watch 10 minutes of Hardball and wow did Chris Mattews get into Gov. Dean's ass). The need for the media to create and push their own realities into a narriative for profit reasons is disgusting.

 

[Aaron Strife]

I wonder how many newscasters have been pointing out that there is now 1 more member in the Dem Caucus than there was when Obama took office.

It's funny.

When Obama was elected, we thought Norm Coleman would win in Minnesota and Arlen Specter was still a Republican. How did they expect to pass all this shit with 58 votes and now they have 59 and they're like complete pussies?

Although this reconciliation deal sounds like a plan to me.

 

[SimpleDesign]

(I did watch 10 minutes of Hardball and wow did Chris Mattews get into Gov. Dean's ass).

What did he say?

 

[empty vessel]

What did he say?

Nothing relevant to anything, I assure you.

 

[thekad]

I heard Chuck Todd say Obama was in a worse position than he was upon taking office. :lol

The mood has definitely changed. Back then, most (all?) thought Republicans would at least attempt to work across the aisle.

 

[Veritas_]

Valuable Information.

Ok, thanks.

 

[RiskyChris]

I heard Chuck Todd say Obama was in a worse position than he was upon taking office. :lol

Well a year ago he had yet to squander his mandate so I will agree, just this once, with Chuck Todd.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Ezra Klein?! I guess even a broken clock is right twice a day.

If you'd bothered to read what I was talking about, you'd have seen that he was advocating for Dems to regroup and push through the bill through alternate means, because to do otherwise is not a viable option for a party that wishes to stay in power. And what I linked to most recently is an indication that Dems are doing just that.

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

Harold Fineman on Maddow stated folks in the administration seem to support using individual parts of the HCR to pass. Basically forcing an up/down vote on issues like pre existing conditions, lifetime and annual limits, etc. I dint see Leibermab or Nelson voting no on those but who knows.

 

[Blackhead]

If you'd bothered to read what I was talking about, you'd have seen that he was advocating for Dems to regroup and push through the bill through alternate means, because to do otherwise is not a viable option for a party that wishes to stay in power. And what I linked to most recently is an indication that Dems are doing just that.

I didn't say he was wrong (if anything, the expression should indicate that I think those articles you quote are the rare ones where he is right). I'm... I mean it's Ezra Klien :lol. *shrug* if that's the political commentator you follow, and turn to in a storm, that explains a lot [to me].

Just a quick one for the road:
If Democrats are going to pass this in reconciliation the what's stopping them from adding a single payer (or public option, or expanding medicaid or ... you know what i mean

 

[xelios]

WASHINGTON – President Barack Obama and congressional allies signaled Wednesday they may try to scale back his sweeping health care overhaul to keep parts of it alive in the wake of a stinging rebuke in the Senate race in Massachusetts.

A simpler, less ambitious bill emerged as an alternative only hours after the loss of the party's crucial 60th Senate seat forced the Democrats to slow their all-out drive to pass Obama's signature legislation despite fierce Republican opposition. The White House is still hoping the House can pass the Senate bill in a quick strike, but Democrats are now considering other options.

No decisions have been made, lawmakers said, but they laid out a new approach that could still include these provisions: limiting the ability of insurance companies to deny coverage to people with medical problems, allowing young adults to stay on their parents' policies, helping small businesses and low-income people pay premiums and changing Medicare to encourage payment for quality care instead of sheer volume of services.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100121/ap_on_bi_ge/us_health_care_overhaul

 

[Byakuya769]

I didn't say he was wrong (if anything, the expression should indicate that I think those articles you quote are the rare ones where he is right). I'm... I mean it's Ezra Klien :lol. *shrug* if that's the political commentator you follow, and turn to in a storm, that explains a lot [to me].

What are your major issues with Klein's commentary?

 

[ViperVisor]

I don't see HCR happening.

In the ABC/Post poll, 45% said they "supported the proposed changes to the health care system being developed by Congress and the Obama administration," but 48% were opposed.

http://www.forbes.com/2009/10/30/pu...h-care-opinions-columnists-karlyn-bowman.html

Hard to find numbers to summarize the climate on the night of the Nov 7 House vote. But that is something from late Oct. As Nov. came it looks like things were even. That was a slight uptick from a low.

We have gone from Momentum to Joementum. This result will not be able to be repeated.
220-215
Reconciliation magic is an illusion Michael.

Also came across this. Scarbs was bullshiting as always this morning pretending LBJ would of did it this summer. And Obama should just get a pre-existing conditions only proposal through right now and make the GOP vote against it. They would kill it but it will never happen so he is safe. Scarbs made sure to say his make believe would piss off people but he is right, 'too bad.'

Look how easy it is to shitty up the most reasonable proposals.

One of the most popular proposals — favored by 82 percent of people in a Pew Research Center Poll from October — is to ban insurance companies from denying patients based on their pre-existing conditions. However, when participants were told it would likely cause some people to pay more for insurance, support fell to 43 percent.

Joe Lieberman would vote against it for sure and maybe a couple more.

 

[GhaleonEB]

I didn't say he was wrong (if anything, the expression should indicate that I think those articles you quote are the rare ones where he is right). I'm... I mean it's Ezra Klien :lol. *shrug* if that's the political commentator you follow, and turn to in a storm, that explains a lot [to me].

Just a quick one for the road:
If Democrats are going to pass this in reconciliation the what's stopping them from adding a single payer (or public option, or expanding medicaid or ... you know what i mean

I read him less for political commentary and more for policy commentary, though in this particular case those lines are blurred. And while there's no point responding to your broadside in detail, Klein's point was that not passing any kind of healthcare bill would be both politically disastrous and terrible policy. Not sure what's so :lol about that....

 

[Blackhead]

What are your major issues with Klein's commentary?

I'm not sure if you know my politics but he's a beltway liberal... like duh! of course I have issues with his commentary. Anyway here's one little nugget that's still topical:

I came across this amazingly revealing post from Ezra Klein, written on June 8, 2009, about the public option:

Most observers now think that some form of public plan will survive in the final bill. The question is what form of [public] plan? . . . . For most of you, this is the big one. The inclusion of a strong public insurance option has become, for most observers I know, the single most recognizable marker for victory. If the public plan exists, liberals have won. If it's eliminated, or neutered, then conservatives have triumphed.​

Back in June -- when most people, according to Klein, believed the final bill would have a public option -- the progressive consensus was that the existence of the public option would single-handedly determine whether progressives won or lost (Klein himself wasn't necessarily adopting that view, only saying that "most of you" have done so). Yet now that the bill will have not merely a "neutered" public option, but no public option at all, the exact opposite decree is issued by the progressive establishment: this public-option-free health care bill is the single greatest achievement since LBJ or, perhaps, even FDR, rendering all progressive opposition to it immoral and insane (see here for a perfect example of this shift). What accounts for that reversal?

He is part of that memory hole called the mainstream media...

 

[Diablos]

There is some truth to Chuck Todd's statement here. Obama has spent tons of political capital during his first year, and of course, the GOP is even less likely to work with him now. It's going to be awfully hard to pass legislation if he seriously thinks the GOP is gonna meet him halfway on anything, unless it's something really trivial.

This is a very important test for the President. It's also pretty damning, because I don't care who you are -- this is hard for anyone to map out. Normally there would be no special election and Obama would have the House and Senate as they were before last night until the fall. This really changes the entire dynamic. Significantly. Even when Clinton had it handed to him in 1994, he had a whole year to do things as he was used to doing them, figure some stuff out, and then brace for a brutal midterm election. This is more like an unexpected slap to the face followed by a bucket of cold water over the head. Obama didn't lose his majorities in the House/Senate, but it's forcing him to hit the ground running. Again, and far too early into his second year. And this time, a lot less people in the country are cheering for him, which means the populist vibe will have an impact on various Congressmen and of course key Senators during important legislation initiatives. His job just got a lot harder much more earlier than it had to.

I have very serious concerns about how he is going to pass legislation. Currently, he is not demonstrating that he can govern. I hate to say it, but I'm starting to wonder if it's not that the President is too nice/willing to reach out, but at times incompetent. He can promote his policies very well, but ever since he was elected, his communication has been quite varied in how effective it really is (compared to the communications marvel that was his Presidential campaign, probably the best one the country has ever seen). It's become all too common for him to just trust Congressional leadership and distance himself from it. He needs to start getting a lot more aggressive with Congressional leadership in private. Currently, I think he just lets them figure things out on their own.

The words I read from him in his interview with George Stephanopoulos today make me cautiously optimistic. He's well aware of the situation, but he doesn't seem to have much of a sense of urgency. For example, on HCR, he is basically saying that a. Scott Brown deserves to be seated before anything else happens, b. he respects Pelosi's decision to work with the Senate to improve the bill, but c. all he can do is hope the House and Senate work something out because they "overlap 90%." That doesn't seem like a strong indication of wanting to get this done. Obama's not stupid. He knows that with a Senator there who pledged to be the "41st vote" against health care reform, if the House and Senate try to work out their differences and modify it AGAIN, the bill goes to the Senate to die. And yet, Obama makes no effort to be a strong advocate for getting the House to just pass it as is, or being a strong voice in support of things like reconciliation or changing the Senate rules. These two things MUST occur unless Obama wants to be a lame duck not even a full two years in. This is what troubles me about him -- I don't think he gets it.

It's just not the kind of language that leads me to believe Obama would start to get really aggressive and push for reconciliation, or get Pelosi to twist some arms and pass the Senate bill, to (hopefully) be modified later. I know he can't do it himself, but he could certainly get more involved in the process. Obama really detaches himself from Congress. He needs to start making it more about the White House, too.

What I know for sure is this: Barack Obama has one week. One week to figure out what he's going to say at his State of the Union. He needs to figure out who he's going to cater to the most, how to address the opposition, what his priorities are, and what they mean to a growing amount of independents who are becoming weary. It's very, very important because it's going to set the tone for the rest of his first term, really, since the supermajority is gone and the Senate continues to have no balls. Basically, he has to set an agenda that will be the new framework. He's either going to fuck it up or knock it out of the park. I'm not feeling very confident right now based on how he's been reacting.

 

[PhoenixDark]

How is Klein a beltway liberal? That's ridiculous

He's a policy wonk, and reading his stuff is sort of like looking at the class nerd's homework. Or at least it makes me feels smart!

 

[maximum360]

I heard Chuck Todd say Obama was in a worse position than he was upon taking office. :lol

Cable news talking heads are too smug for their own good. I imagine them salivating at this news because it creates more political drama. They'll be happy to set the building on fire just to have something to report.

 

[Tamanon]

Cable news talking heads are too smug for their own good. I imagine them salivating at this news because it creates more political drama. They'll be happy to set the building on fire just to have something to report.

To be fair, they have money and healthcare.

 

[Blackhead]

How is Klein a beltway liberal? That's ridiculous

He's a policy wonk, and reading his stuff is sort of like looking at the class nerd's homework. Or at least it makes me feels smart!

... He works in the Beltway, writes for The American Prospect and organized the JournoList... And, in the articles Ghaleon linked to, he's talking about the Democrats prospects (obviously that's more politics than policy)

Fake Edit: how did I get sucked into this?! I was aiming for a drive-by posting :lol. Sorry, please just ignore me and carry on in the usual PoliGAF way

 

[Diablos]

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/21/us/politics/21deficit.html

It starts (well, continues, but this time with more confidence from the GOPers).

Republicans Oppose Obama Deficit Panel
By JACKIE CALMES

WASHINGTON — Top Republicans on Wednesday were hostile toward President Obama’s plan to create a bipartisan commission on cutting projected deficits, raising doubts about the prospects of a main piece of his budget strategy.

Senator Mitch McConnell of Kentucky, the Republican leader in the Senate, was evasive when pressed by reporters at the Capitol. “I’m not going to decide today what we’re going to do in the future,” he said. But the House Republican leader, Representative John A. Boehner of Ohio, seemed to suggest that Republicans might not take their allotted seats on a commission.

“This sounds like political cover for Washington Democrats who are starting to realize that their out-of-control spending is scaring the hell out of the American people,” Mr. Boehner said of the tentative deal between the White House and Congressional Democratic leaders on Tuesday night.

Under that plan, Mr. Obama would establish by executive order an 18-member bipartisan panel to propose how to balance future tax revenue and entitlement program benefits. The group’s recommendations would be due by Dec. 1 — after the November elections. Then Congressional leaders would put the package to a vote.

Democrats expected that Mr. McConnell and Mr. Boehner would not be supportive given their party’s general opposition to raising taxes and to compromising with Mr. Obama. But Democrats figured that ultimately Republicans would be hard pressed to reject the president’s overture to help reduce the debt, since most of it results from tax and spending policies enacted in recent years, when Republicans controlled the White House and Congress.

The Democrats’ calculations on that and more were upended on Tuesday, when Republicans were emboldened after capturing a Massachusetts Senate seat.

Even two Republicans who have sponsored legislation with Democrats for a bipartisan budget commission — Senator Judd Gregg of New Hampshire, the senior Republican on the Senate Budget Committee, and Representative Frank R. Wolf of Virginia — were quick to oppose a presidential commission.

Mr. Gregg called the idea “a nothing-burger,” and Mr. Wolf criticized it as “a back-room deal.” They objected that an executive order, unlike a law, could not mandate that Congress vote on the recommendations quickly and without amendments.

Democratic leaders in the House and Senate have pledged to hold a vote. On Wednesday, however, some moderate Senate Democrats were still awaiting “written assurances” from the speaker of the House, Representative Nancy Pelosi, according to Senator Kent Conrad, a Democrat from North Dakota who is chairman of the Senate Budget Committee and was Mr. Gregg’s co-sponsor of a bill to establish a budget commission.

Under the Democrats’ plan, the Senate would vote first on any recommendations from a commission. The House would vote only if senators approved the package.

Though details were in flux, Mr. Obama’s executive order would designate a panel with 10 Democratic members and eight Republicans. Twelve of them would be chosen by the House and Senate leaders of both parties, with each naming three lawmakers. The president would name six people, four Democrats and two Republicans.

The deal on a commission is intended to clear the way for Congress to vote, perhaps on Thursday in the Senate, to raise the $12.4 trillion debt limit enough to allow the government to continue borrowing to pay for its operations through this year.

Also as part of the agreement, Democratic senators are to drop their opposition to a House-passed bill for a so-called pay-go law, which would require that most new spending and tax cuts would have to be offset by tax increases or spending cuts, to avoid adding to the debt.

“We’ve got to get back to fiscal responsibility,” said Representative Steny H. Hoyer of Maryland, the House Democratic leader.

“Of course,” he added, “the key is going to be whether or not Republicans — both in terms of their appointment of people to the commission and cooperation with the statutory pay-go effort — will cooperate.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/21/us/politics/21deficit.html?pagewanted=print

 

[tanod]

The thing about spending political capital is that you get no potential for return if nothing passes.

Giving up on HCR is like selling your home because some random jackass coming to your house doesn't like the color of carpet you picked out.

 

[Azih]

Giving up on HCR is like giving away your home because some random jackass coming to your house doesn't like the color of carpet you picked out.

Fixed. I mean if you sell your home you get something back.

 

[teh_pwn]

What did he say?

for(10 minutes)
{
Matthews: "Liberals in Massachusetts voted for the conservative guy that wants to kill healthcare, therefore they don't want health care reform. Hah!"

Dean: "Polls show that the vast majority of Obama supporters that stayed home and didn't vote say that they don't believe the Democrats are actually going to pass good healthcare reform, and they're sending a message to Washington that they want better legislation."

Matthews: "Hah! But they voted for the conservative guy!"

Dean: "No, they stayed home, if you look at the polls...."

repeat...
}


I wanted to change the channel, but I didn't want to get off my elliptical machine.


I think the GOP victory is a good thing. Either the Democrats will realize they're about to get voted out if they value special interests over voters, or the GOP will come in and get us to default on our debt faster to get it over with.

 

[Diablos]

Matthews is such a loser.

 

[GhaleonEB]

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/21/us/politics/21deficit.html

It starts (well, continues, but this time with more confidence from the GOPers).


http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/21/us/politics/21deficit.html?pagewanted=print

It was their idea. Specifically, Gregg's. :lol

 

[Anticitizen One]

Come on. Nancy Pelosi wrote the house bill. Harry Reid got the MOST left wing bill he could get with 60 democrats on board. Those bills are as left wing as could possibly be passed with only democrats on board. That's compromise?

Are you on drugs?

or are you not paying attention/playing games

 

[Diablos]

It was their idea. Specifically, Gregg's. :lol

What more would you need to confirm that they are gonna lame duck the shit out of this President. My fucking god.

 

[empty vessel]

Harold Fineman on Maddow stated folks in the administration seem to support using individual parts of the HCR to pass. Basically forcing an up/down vote on issues like pre existing conditions, lifetime and annual limits, etc. I dint see Leibermab or Nelson voting no on those but who knows.

It's a good idea for treating Senators like the children they are. It's actually a means to get out from under the insipid right-wing spin. Break it down and simplify it: "Alright, asshole, do you support or do you oppose X? Because that--and only that--is what we are voting on right now." Which only means it won't happen, because that's not what the system is set up to do.

Incidentally, and speaking of spin, Fox News is probably the single biggest contributor to the current warped state of American politics. It is mostly responsible for creating all these warped conservatives who can't tell an empirical fact from their ass and who glommed together in this pathetic faith-based movement of idiots holding up their pro-Fox News (stupid) and anti-CNN (smart, but for the wrong, stopped clock kind of reasons) placards. In short, we have a single Australian citizen to blame for America's biggest political problem right now. I say we build a third party that has as its sole platform bullet point the excommunication of Rupert Murdoch and his business interests from America.

The great advantage of the right is that business interests align with it (hence the reason for its promotion by business-friendly outlets like Fox News). Actually, that business interests align with it is the only reason it even exists in popular form. Those with the money have the power to shape the world to reflect their interests.

 

[Anticitizen One]

Here is an example of what it means to KICK ASS:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3L2513JFJsY&feature=related

Obama and the current democratic leadership is a bunch of pussies. I miss the Clintons.

 

[GhaleonEB]

What more would you need to confirm that they are gonna lame duck the shit out of this President. My fucking god.

Yeah. Obama actually did them a favor.

Here's when the panel was announced.

Here's when it was clear the panel didn't have the votes to pass, just one week ago.

So Obama secures the Senate leadership's agreement to let it come to a vote, and then sets about creating it via executive order to get around congressional objections. Obama is helping Gregg get what he wants. And Gregg goes nuts. :lol

 

[ViperVisor]

Here is an example of what it means to KICK ASS:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3L2513JFJsY&feature=related

Obama and the current democratic leadership is a bunch of pussies. I miss the Clintons.

Clinton "They downgraded him"

Reminds me of a guy who took it much further. You don't downgrade em!

 

[Zonar]

Here is an example of what it means to KICK ASS:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3L2513JFJsY&feature=related

Obama and the current democratic leadership is a bunch of pussies. I miss the Clintons.

Dammn, Clinton Killed it!

 

[mAcOdIn]

I don't think that splitting health care up will work either, because for stuff like not denying based on pre-existing conditions a mandate is all but essential. I mean, yes premiums will go up if all of a sudden sick people can't be denied but you're not adding any other healthy people that didn't carry insurance to balance it out. Like someone else pointed out Americans don't want their premiums to go up, they don't care enough about someone not having insurance to pay more each year. Splitting it up like that where there's no big sum of parts makes every aspect of the reform look lousy, it's only when they were all together that the bill was even palatable. On their own almost every single reform has a very real con that will effect every day Americans and will make fighting those single issues that much easier.

 

[Byakuya769]

Dayum son, CLINTON FUCKED THAT SHIT UP!!!

Spoiler

while not holding any public office

 

[jamesinclair]

I wonder how much the media will play this:


Brown got 59,253 more total votes than McCain.
Coakley got 845,415 less than Obama.


Brown didn't energize the people any more than McCain did......Coakley just didn't pull in the democrat vote.

The people who voted for Brown are the same old republicans that voted in every Massachusetts election. There was no "massive shift" in voters or "sending a message to washington", unless the message was "the democratic party bores me".