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[Cheebs]

Y
I know I don't agree much with the republican party, but I still want to vote and I'll be casting my vote for McCain here in New York. Not like my one vote will mean jack shit, but I'm done with the democratic party after this.

wtf... MCCAIN?!

 

[Tamanon]

LOL CowboyAstronaut is a feminist.

 

[reilo]

"We have more votes, we are more electable, we are winning the electorate college, we have a good case to make."

sigh

 

[TDG]

I just got back, a few questions:

1. When does the recess end?

2. Do they begin debating and voting after the recess ends?

3. Will the debating and voting be televised/ on the streams?

 

[Trakdown]

I swear to God and Sonny Jesus, if I run into any of these empty-headed fucks that keep bringing up the fucking nightmare ticket, I will kill them and drop their remains on their goddamn doorstep for all their family to see. It's like they have no cognizant recognition of what Obama has been campaigning for at all.

 

[Tamanon]

I just got back, a few questions:

1. When does the recess end?

2. Do they begin debating and voting after the recess ends?

3. Will the debating and voting be televised/ on the streams?

Debating will be in private, and starts in 45 minutes.:lol

 

[reilo]

Wolfson: "Count every vote, and apportion how the votes were cast."

Translation: "Clinton deserves everything and fuck Obama."

 

[Diablos]

everyone loves recesses.

so, everyone has presented, and now at 4:15 they will reconvene and debate among themselves for a solution? i bet they chose to vote on florida first.

Florida should be the easy one.

I'm done being mad about it cause what's done is done I guess. I expected to go into this and see fairness and proper logic rule the day. That wasn't the case, but what can I do? I had it coming.

I now understand why Hilary was so confident though. She had every right to be.

No she didn't. Hillary thought this was going to be a cakewalk, and underestimated Obama and his campaign. She deserves to lose for running such a poor campaign. But she's so very stubborn that she's dragging the party down instead of just being a human being, accepting her flawed campaign, and going back to the Senate. Really, dude, it's Hillary Clinton that is complicating things here.

I was a complete idiot to place any confidence in the Democrat party after all the other failures. Gore even lost his home state in 2000, Kerry didn't have what it takes and lost what should've been a walk in the park and screwed up so much he made Bush look good and the Democrats are not happy with things being unfair for the Republicans in this upcoming election so they are doing their best to even the stakes.

So its only fair I do my part.

It's your loss, really, especially since you are voting in a state that will be a lock for Hillary OR Obama.

The party has moved on from their previous mistakes; the Clintons haven't. This is so fucking obvious. The DNC has been doing a really good job this year.

 

[Seth C]

I swear to God and Sonny Jesus, if I run into any of these empty-headed fucks that keep bringing up the fucking nightmare ticket, I will kill them and drop their remains on their goddamn doorstep for all their family to see. It's like they have no cognizant recognition of what Obama has been campaigning for at all.

And if Obama is willing to run with Hillary beside him I will assume that he also has no idea what he has been campaigning for, meaning I will cast my vote elsewhere.

 

[Frank the Great]

cowboyastronaut, you're being a complete idiot in this thread (no offense)

i think he's just tag fishing

 

[Rur0ni]

And if Obama is willing to run with Hillary beside him I will assume that he also has no idea what he has been campaigning for, meaning I will cast my vote elsewhere.

I think plenty of people feel this way.

 

[CowboyAstronaut]

Florida should be the easy one.


No she didn't. Hillary thought this was going to be a cakewalk, and underestimated Obama and his campaign. She deserves to lose for running such a poor campaign. But she's so very stubborn that she's dragging the party down instead of just being a human being, accepting her flawed campaign, and going back to the Senate. Really, dude, it's Hillary Clinton that is complicating things here.


It's your loss, really, especially since you are voting in a state that will be a lock for Hillary OR Obama.

The party has moved on from their previous mistakes; the Clintons haven't. This is so fucking obvious. The DNC has been doing a really good job this year.

I know there is no way Obama will lose New York which is why I'll vote for McCain without regrets. I just can't bring myself to vote democrat.

Right Francois I'm being an idiot for being outraged at a suggestion of affirmative action for why Obama should be treated fairly in regards to Michigan on top of all the other bullshit that has gone on during this corrupt ass meeting?

Major people apart of Hilary's campaign have influential roles in the damn committee as well? I have every right to be pissed about that and I say to hell with anyone that has a problem with that. The Obama campaign representative making the argument for Florida getting unfairly grilled in a fashion that nobody else was prior and those other idiots in the committee are just sitting around and watching it happen? While their supposed candidate is being dogged on national television for all voters in florida to see?

How the fuck can people talk unity or claim unity when you got people from the clinton campaign doing and asking questions purposely designed to make Obama look responsible for why the votes aren't being counted 100% in florida? They are SERIOUSLY entertaining counting a vote in Michigan for which totally wasn't fair for Obama. He wasn't even on the fucking ballot and there is a high possibility that shit will be counted.

So I can be a fucking idiot if I want to because I'm witnessing total bullshit.

 

[Tamanon]

I am shocked that Wolfson would bring up "Mister Pfleger"

 

[Snidely Whiplash]

I think plenty of people feel this way.

Can you write-in people on the ballot?

 

[hokahey]

This is for show. Make Florida and Michigan feel important. Obama and Hillary joint ticket. Bet on it.

 

[reilo]

Clinton and their surrogates are delusional if they think that they'd bring the party together if they steal [ there is no other way to put it ] the nomination away from Obama.

Hasn't it been plenty bad having to deal with 8 years of already one extremely delusional White House?

 

[Tommie Hu$tle]

No she didn't. Hillary thought this was going to be a cakewalk, and underestimated Obama and his campaign. She deserves to lose for running such a poor campaign. But she's so very stubborn that she's dragging the party down instead of just being a human being, accepting her flawed campaign, and going back to the Senate. Really, dude, it's Hillary Clinton that is complicating things here.

This is a good point and brings up an article I was reading on Yahoo. Long story short is that the Obama camp did everything they were supposed to do in order to win the campaign. To me if I were a law and order kind of person I'd be more inclined to vote for him because he is someone who abides by the rules and the laws and not some one who is willing to change that law to suit his need. He works within the law to build his advantage. That to me is telling about how he would run the nation.

Obama used party rules to foil Clinton

WASHINGTON - Unlike Hillary Rodham Clinton, rival Barack Obama planned for the long haul.

Clinton hinged her whole campaign on an early knockout blow on Super Tuesday, while Obama's staff researched congressional districts in states with primaries that were months away. What they found were opportunities to win delegates, even in states they would eventually lose.

Obama's campaign mastered some of the most arcane rules in politics, and then used them to foil a front-runner who seemed to have every advantage — money, fame and a husband who had essentially run the Democratic Party for eight years as president.

"Without a doubt, their understanding of the nominating process was one of the keys to their success," said Tad Devine, a Democratic strategist not aligned with either candidate. "They understood the nuances of it and approached it at a strategic level that the Clinton campaign did not."

Careful planning is one reason why Obama is emerging as the nominee as the Democratic Party prepares for its final three primaries, Puerto Rico on Sunday and Montana and South Dakota on Tuesday. Attributing his success only to soaring speeches and prodigious fundraising ignores a critical part of contest.

Obama used the Democrats' system of awarding delegates to limit his losses in states won by Clinton while maximizing gains in states he carried. Clinton, meanwhile, conserved her resources by essentially conceding states that favored Obama, including many states that held caucuses instead of primaries.

In a stark example, Obama's victory in Kansas wiped out the gains made by Clinton for winning New Jersey, even though New Jersey had three times as many delegates at stake. Obama did it by winning big in Kansas while keeping the vote relatively close in New Jersey.

The research effort was headed by Jeffrey Berman, Obama's press-shy national director of delegate operations. Berman, who also tracked delegates in former Rep. Dick Gephardt's presidential bids, spent the better part of 2007 analyzing delegate opportunities for Obama.

"The whole Clinton campaign thought this would be like previous campaigns, a battle of momentum," said Thomas Mann, a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution, a Washington think tank. "They thought she would be the only one would who could compete in such a momentous event as Super Tuesday."

Instead, Obama won a majority of the 23 Super Tuesday contests on Feb. 5 and then spent the following two weeks racking up 11 straight victories, building an insurmountable lead among delegates won in primaries and caucuses.

What made it especially hard for Clinton to catch up was that Obama understood and took advantage of a nominating system that emerged from the 1970s and '80s, when the party struggled to find a balance between party insiders and its rank-and-file voters.

Until the 1970s, the nominating process was controlled by party leaders, with ordinary citizens having little say. There were primaries and caucuses, but the delegates were often chosen behind closed doors, sometimes a full year before the national convention. That culminated in a 1968 national convention that didn't reflect the diversity of the party — racially or ideologically.

The fiasco of the 1968 convention in Chicago, where police battled anti-war protesters in the streets, led to calls for a more inclusive process.

One big change was awarding delegates proportionally, meaning you can finish second or third in a primary and still win delegates to the party's national convention. As long candidates get at least 15 percent of the vote, they are eligible for delegates.

The system enables strong second-place candidates to stay competitive and extend the race — as long as they don't run out of campaign money.

"For people who want a campaign to end quickly, proportional allocation is a bad system," Devine said. "For people who want a system that is fair and reflective of the voters, it's a much better system."

Another big change was the introduction of superdelegates, the party and elected officials who automatically attend the convention and can vote for whomever they choose regardless of what happens in the primaries and caucuses.

Superdelegates were first seated at the 1984 convention. Much has been made of them this year because neither Obama nor Clinton can reach the number of delegates needed to secure the nomination without their support.

A more subtle change was the distribution of delegates within each state. As part of the proportional system, Democrats award delegates based on statewide vote totals as well as results in individual congressional districts. The delegates, however, are not distributed evenly within a state, like they are in the Republican system.

Under Democratic rules, congressional districts with a history of strong support for Democratic candidates are rewarded with more delegates than districts that are more Republican. Some districts packed with Democratic voters can have as many as eight or nine delegates up for grabs, while more Republican districts in the same state have three or four.

The system is designed to benefit candidates who do well among loyal Democratic constituencies, and none is more loyal than black voters. Obama, who would be the first black candidate nominated by a major political party, has been winning 80 percent to 90 percent of the black vote in most primaries, according to exit polls.

"Black districts always have a large number of delegates because they are the highest performers for the Democratic Party," said Elaine Kamarck, a Harvard University professor who is writing a book about the Democratic nominating process.

"Once you had a black candidate you knew that he would be winning large numbers of delegates because of this phenomenon," said Kamarck, who is also a superdelegate supporting Clinton.

In states like Ohio and Pennsylvania, Clinton won the statewide vote but Obama won enough delegates to limit her gains. In states Obama carried, like Georgia and Virginia, he maximized the number of delegates he won.

"The Obama campaign was very good at targeting districts in areas where they could do well," said former DNC Chairman Don Fowler, a Clinton superdelegate from South Carolina. "They were very conscious and aware of these nuances."

But, Fowler noted, the best strategy in the world would have been useless without the right candidate.

"If that same strategy and that same effort had been used with a different candidate, a less charismatic candidate, a less attractive candidate, it wouldn't have worked," Fowler said. "The reason they look so good is because Obama was so good."

 

[TDG]

Debating will be in private, and starts in 45 minutes.:lol

Private? The debating was going to be the interesting thing! that sucks.

Well, thanks.

 

[Imm0rt4l]

LOL CowboyAstronaut is a feminist.

a feminist voting for a man who called his wife a whore and a cunt in the same sentence,lol @ the irony.

 

[Diablos]

And if Obama is willing to run with Hillary beside him I will assume that he also has no idea what he has been campaigning for, meaning I will cast my vote elsewhere.

I have a feeling that if Obama picks Hillary as his VP, it really wasn't his choice. I wouldn't blame him, as much as I'd not appreciate the ticket myself. Obama/Clinton is still 10x better than anything McCain could come up with.

Remember: Something like 28% of all Democrats want Hillary to run as an independent. 28%.

 

[lexdysia]

Somebody shooting lazers on the msnbc set.

 

[grandjedi6]

I know there is no way Obama will lose New York which is why I'll vote for McCain without regrets. I just can't bring myself to vote democrat.

Such screwed up logic you have there CowboyAstronaut. And all this over some little Rules and Bylaws meeting? :lol

 

[Diablos]

CowboyAstronaut should be glad they're trying to bring this to an end NOW instead of waiting until Denver, pathetic as it is that it still came down to something like this. But the Clintons never fail to surprise me.

 

[kkaabboomm]

Such screwed up logic you have there CowboyAstronaut. And all this over some little Rules and Bylaws meeting? :lol

maybe if no one responds or acknowledges him he'll go away?

 

[Amir0x]

"Call this informed speculation... Clinton camp wants to resolve Florida tonight, bring Michigan to CREDENTIALS COMMITTEE.

But they don't have the votes. We'll see, but that's the latest buzz."

 

[lexdysia]

Awesome. Chuck Todd comes through again.

 

[kkaabboomm]

and did chuck todd wizard just say the clinton campaign wants to punt the michigan vote till the credentials committee, and thus be able to stay in the race until then? wtf? horrible idea.

 

[Rur0ni]

Todd saying speculation is Michigan being punted to Credentials Committee.

 

[CowboyAstronaut]

Such screwed up logic you have there CowboyAstronaut. And all this over some little Rules and Bylaws meeting? :lol

It's not as simple as that. Apparently I must be the only person watching the fucking thing and seeing how unfair it's been for Obama so far. The type of shit being said is completely damaging to his campaign and it's coming from his own party.

What makes it worse is in the face of all this obvious bullshit people are still claiming unity. What aspect of any of this meeting thus far suggests that there will be unity? Keep dreaming. The intentions of the clinton people have been made very clear.

kkaabboomm don't worry I'll go away now as I've already gotten as mad about this whole as I can get.

 

[TDG]

CowboyAstronaut should be glad they're trying to bring this to an end NOW instead of waiting until Denver, pathetic as it is that it still came down to something like this. But the Clintons never fail to surprise me.

IAWTP.

It sucks that people got so divided between the two candidates in the first place, and I really wish Clinton hadn't run such a divisive campaign. But it's far from doomsday.

 

[kkaabboomm]

and yes! obama campaign wants supers out before the vote ends tuesday so the voters put him over! horray! gooooooood idea (per chuck todd)

 

[Judderman]

It's not as simple as that. Apparently I must be the only person watching the fucking thing and seeing how unfair it's been for Obama so far. The type of shit being said is completely damaging to his campaign and it's coming from his own party.

What makes it worse is in the face of all this obvious bullshit people are still claiming unity. What aspect of any of this meeting thus far suggests that there will be unity? Keep dreaming. The intentions of the clinton people have been made very clear.

Dude it's Clinton supporters grasping at straws. They aren't taking this nomination from him.

 

[Frank the Great]

It's not as simple as that. Apparently I must be the only person watching the fucking thing and seeing how unfair it's been for Obama so far. The type of shit being said is completely damaging to his campaign and it's coming from his own party.

What makes it worse is in the face of all this obvious bullshit people are still claiming unity. What aspect of any of this meeting thus far suggests that there will be unity? Keep dreaming. The intentions of the clinton people have been made very clear.

kkaabboomm don't worry I'll go away now as I've already gotten as mad about this whole as I can get.

wait, so you're an obama supporter who will vote for mccain because of how he was treated by the clinton people?

you aren't very bright, are you?

 

[Seth C]

I have a feeling that if Obama picks Hillary as his VP, it really wasn't his choice. I wouldn't blame him, as much as I'd not appreciate the ticket myself. Obama/Clinton is still 10x better than anything McCain could come up with.

Remember: Something like 28% of all Democrats want Hillary to run as an independent. 28%.

That's fine, but I will continue to disagree. Anything that results in Hillary and the Clintons back in office is to me the worst possible option. Perhaps if the Democratic party hands another election to the Republicans, by 2012 or 2016 that 28% will finally wise up.

 

[Incognito]

http://blogs.tnr.com/tnr/blogs/the_.../scenes-from-today-s-rbc-hillary-protest.aspx

Howard Dean may hope that the "healing will begin today," but two blocks away from the northwest Washington Marriott where the DNC's Rules and Bylaws Committee is meeting right now to try to figure out Florida and Michigan, the Hillary protesters are occupying an utterly alternate (and healing-free) universe: a universe in which one of the big lawn rally's speakers yells that the Democratic Party no longer is in the business of "promoting equality and fairness for all"; in which a Hillary supporter with two poodles shouts, "Howard Dean is a leftist freak!"; in which a man exhibits a sign that reads "At least slaves were counted as 3/5ths a Citizen" and shows Dean whipping handcuffed people; and in which Larry Sinclair, the Minnesota man who took to YouTube to allege that Barack Obama had oral sex with him in the back of a limousine in 1999, is one of the belles of the ball.

"They almost made me cry this morning when they told me to get out of there," the blond Sinclair--who's looking roly-poly and giddy in a blue-and-white striped shirt with a pack of Marlboros protruding from the breast pocket--says, referring to several nervous protest organizers who tried to evict him when he first showed up at the rally site early this morning carrying a box of "Obama's DIRTY LITTLE SECRETS: Murder, Drugs, Gay Sex" fliers. Since then, though, he goes on, "I have been totally surprised by the reception I have received!"

He's not kidding. Clusters of people in Hillary shirts ask to take their photo with him, one woman covered in Clinton buttons introduces him to Greta Van Susteren, and he estimates he has handed out 500 fliers. "You could improve your credibility if you downplayed the gay sex and focused on the drugs," sagely advises one Hillary supporter with auburn hair and elegant makeup. But in this universe, Sinclair's credibility doesn't seem to be suffering too much. In fact, he's treated nearly as well as he might be at a meeting of the Vast Right-wing Conspiracy. In the thirty minutes I stand with him, only one woman expresses disgust at his fliers and his willingness to chattily discourse on whether Obama is "good in bed."

Earlier, he claims, he even got to take a picture with Charlie Rangel. "I love him!" Sinclair chirps, though, it must be said, not as much as he loves Lanny Davis.

Has it come to this? We tend to assume the Hillary camp's hot rhetoric--that Obama's less ready than McCain to be commander-in-chief, that the DNC in Florida is like Mugabe in Zimbabwe--is studied, purposeful, that they can't really believe it. That may be true at the Lanny Davis level, but by the time it trickles down to Hillary's most grassroots supporters, it becomes deadly serious.

Of the eight Hillary supporters I quiz at the protest (six of them women), only one says she'd even consider voting for Obama in the fall. "It's sad. I'm a lifelong Democrat and the party's been taken over by these Obama people who say they want 'change,'" gripes Linda of Horseheads, New York, outside the Marriott as a honking car decorated with a painting of Hillary, a glued-on bust of Cleopatra, and a tampon drives by. Linda, she says, has already gone to the state Board of Elections to learn how to write Hillary's name in in November. "So much has been stolen from her."

Justine, a self-described "diehard Democrat" from Greensboro, North Carolina, objects to the write-in idea. "It's gonna help Barack if you don't vote against him," she says. She and her friends got Sinclair to autograph their copies of the "Murder, Drugs, Gay Sex" flier. One of those friends, Jeannie, is living proof that, at least for some people, the long primary has done its damage. "When [Obama] first came out, we just thought he was too young," she explains. "But now I don't think he's qualified at all."

It's easy to sink into despair here. Standing and watching all these Democrats chat up Sinclair--who's retained Montgomery Blair Sibley as his lawyer and says the Republican National Committee has also been in touch with him--makes me want to fall to my knees, rend my garments, and start insanely screaming, "Wake up! Wake up! You'll hate a President John McCain!" But the rhetoric from the top has imparted its poison below, and the bitterest criticisms of Obama gain traction as they circulate through the virulently-pro-Hillary echo chamber. "Would you rather have a president who had an affair [Bill Clinton] or one who was a murderer [Obama]?" Jeannie, the Greensboro Democrat, asks a fellow in a floppy Tilley hat and Hillary buttons. "That's a good point," he replies.

Following instructions from Obama HQ, almost no Obama supporters have shown up to protest, amplifying the impression of the alternate Hillary universe. But around the edges, a few small signs of the other universe peek through, the one in which Barack Obama leads and most Democrats don't suspect him of multiple felonies. Inside the Marriott's gift shop, the sales clerk tells me that Democratic bumper stickers have been selling like crazy today. "Mostly Hillary?" I ask.

"Actually, mostly Obama," she giggles.

--Eve Fairbanks

 

[grandjedi6]

maybe if no one responds or acknowledges him he'll go away?

This isn't the first time Cowboy has overreacted to nothing.

It's not as simple as that. Apparently I must be the only person watching the fucking thing and seeing how unfair it's been for Obama so far. The type of shit being said is completely damaging to his campaign and it's coming from his own party.

What makes it worse is in the face of all this obvious bullshit people are still claiming unity. What aspect of any of this meeting thus far suggests that there will be unity? Keep dreaming. The intentions of the clinton people have been made very clear.

What is unfair about it? They are having their little meeting and the Hillary people are trying to protest random shit. But in the end they'll still strip both states by 1/2 and agree on a proposal that essentially favors Obama. Then after all these primaries and arguments are over with, the party will unify and the convention will be its traditional "Go us!" pandering.

But for you to start hating the Democratic party and vote Mccain simply because of one political meeting that doesn't even effect you, well that is pretty ridiculous

 

[Pimpwerx]

The DNC cutting its nose to spite its face. They will regret this in years to come. Who made the original decision not to count FL and MI? Was that an established rule, or a decision by another of these stupid committees? PEACE.

 

[Incognito]

The DNC cutting its nose to spite its face. They will regret this in years to come. Who made the original decision not to count FL and MI? Was that an established rule, or a decision by another of these stupid committees? PEACE.

Established. At least the stripping of 50% of the delegations. Both states were knocked 100%, though.

 

[lexdysia]

Did MSNBC just wake up from a bender?

 

[titiklabingapat]

The DNC cutting its nose to spite its face. They will regret this in years to come. Who made the original decision not to count FL and MI? Was that an established rule, or a decision by another of these stupid committees? PEACE.

It was a rule(at least 50% slashing of votes) then everyone, even Clinton, agreed on it(100% slashing of votes and not campaigning and removing one's name from the ballot in Michigan).

"Michigan votes don't count" - Hillary Clinton.

 

[Suikoguy]

The DNC cutting its nose to spite its face. They will regret this in years to come. Who made the original decision not to count FL and MI? Was that an established rule, or a decision by another of these stupid committees? PEACE.

I think it was decided by a committee and all of the candidates.

 

[reilo]

The DNC cutting its nose to spite its face. They will regret this in years to come. Who made the original decision not to count FL and MI? Was that an established rule, or a decision by another of these stupid committees? PEACE.

If you break a rule that was agreed upon by you and everyone else, and are told that there will be a clear cut punishment if you break that rule, do you still cry foul after you are punished for breaking the rule?

 

[kkaabboomm]

Did MSNBC just wake up from a bender?

on site cameras are whacked-out right now...

 

[Judderman]

Argh, I'm just removing this ragemode post.

 

[The Lamonster]

bai.

nevermind that, it's just his catch phrase.

 

[Shiggie]

I ate something really bad

 

[lexdysia]

Chuck Todd crushes Hillary's fake math with his superior head math with + infinity logic roll.

Gore to employ his mystical algorithm to finalize the math.

 

[reilo]

Dean meeting with Gore tonight

 

[Pelydr]

So are we going to see a shit load of supers tomorrow and Monday leading up to the Tuesday primaries? Hopefully the supers finally see a reason to crush Clinton.

 

[lexdysia]

So are we going to see a shit load of supers tomorrow and Monday leading up to the Tuesday primaries? Hopefully the supers finally see a reason to crush Clinton.

The janitors will decide this race.