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[DrForester]

So are we going to see a shit load of supers tomorrow and Monday leading up to the Tuesday primaries? Hopefully the supers finally see a reason to crush Clinton.

Most people agree the best start to unifying the party is having Obama win the primary via the delegates from SD and Montana on Tuesday. But they need to wait till after today's ruling to see what the new magic number is. More than likely they will no longer be 40 delegates shy, but maybe more like 60 or 70 (I'm sure there's a better estimate form people who have already done the math).

So if Obama's crew does go that route and they do have a pocketful of Supers that they've held back on announcing, they could do that, but they'd have to have alot of delegates come out the next 3 days. There's only something like 30 delegates total in those states.

 

[jamesinclair]

Do either of the candidates have a stance on the PR state/independence thing?

 

[lexdysia]

The cameras are on in the room and it's 4:15....Is this gonna be public?

 

[Stinkles]

I ate something really bad

I warned you that you can't make a Burrito with old Oysters Rockerfeller, but would you listen?

 

[GoldenEye 007]

The cameras are on in the room and it's 4:15....Is this gonna be public?

C-Span's site is saying coverage will resume at 4:15, so I'm thinking its going to be broadcast.

 

[lexdysia]

C-Span's site is saying coverage will resume at 4:15, so I'm thinking its going to be broadcast.

Sweet.

EDIT: My popcorn is ready. Tivo is queued. Let's do this!

 

[DrForester]

The chairwoman of the committee also told people to have their credentials to get back in after the recess.

 

[Nazgul_Hunter]

Something no one's called the Clinton campaign on yet: if the whole popular vote argument is to show she is more electable than Obama, then why the $%@#! would you count Puerto Rico which will play no part in electing her in November?

 

[B.K.]

Something no one's called the Clinton campaign on yet: if the whole popular vote argument is to show she is more electable than Obama, then why the $%@#! would you count Puerto Rico which will play no part in electing her in November?

Because she will say anything to make it look like she's winning, like when she says that caucuses shouldn't count in the popular vote and wants Florida and Michigan added to her count.

 

[Nazgul_Hunter]

Because she will say anything to make it look like she's winning, like when she says that caucuses shouldn't count in the popular vote and wants Florida and Michigan added to her count.

I know she will, but no one else has said called her out on that twisted logic

 

[thekad]

Something no one's called the Clinton campaign on yet: if the whole popular vote argument is to show she is more electable than Obama, then why the $%@#! would you count Puerto Rico which will play no part in electing her in November?

Hillary's logic is chock-full of cognitive dissonance that no one feels the desire to call her out on.

"Count all the votes! Except those!"

 

[KRS7]

Do either of the candidates have a stance on the PR state/independence thing?

I don't know McCain or Obama's individual positions but here are the position of the Republican and Democratic party:

Republican Party 2004 Platform:

We support the right of the United States citizens of Puerto Rico to be admitted to the Union as a fully sovereign state after they freely so determine. We recognize that Congress has the final authority to define the Constitutionally valid options for Puerto Rico to achieve a permanent non-territorial status with government by consent and full enfranchisement. As long as Puerto Rico is not a state, however, the will of its people regarding their political status should be ascertained by means of a general right of referendum or specific referenda sponsored by the United States government.

Democratic Party 2000 Platform:

Puerto Rico has been under U.S. sovereignty for over a century and Puerto Ricans have been U.S. citizens since 1917, but the island’s ultimate status still has not been determined and its 3.9 million residents still do not have voting representation in their national government. These disenfranchised citizens – who have contributed greatly to our country in war and peace – are entitled to the permanent and fully democratic status of their choice. Democrats will continue to work in the White House and Congress to clarify the options and enable them to chose and to obtain such a status from among all realistic options.

Democratic Party 2004 Platform:

We believe that four million disenfranchised American citizens residing in Puerto Rico have the right to the permanent and fully democratic status of their choice. The White House and Congress will clarify the realistic status options for Puerto Rico and enable Puerto Ricans to choose among them.

 

[Tamanon]

Stop saying "I want it all", it makes you look like a fool!

 

[TDG]

I thought the recess was supposed to end at 4:15. What are they doing?

 

[DrForester]

I thought the recess was supposed to end at 4:15. What are they doing?

Maybe it really is private and they're in a conference room somewhere.

 

[Shiggie]

Stop saying "I want it all", it makes you look like a fool!

Too late man. And don't give em advice.

 

[worldrunover]

I've been listening to most of this the whole day. Here's my conclusion: Not counting Michigan or Florida is the MOST FAIR approach to this whole thing.

It won't happen, but I can see arguments for both cases (esp. Michigan). Giving either Florida or Michigan delegates now is changing the rules midway through the game and discounting the primary process. IMO.

 

[GoldenEye 007]

Maybe it really is private and they're in a conference room somewhere.

It's on now at C-Span's site.

 

[lexdysia]

Oh goodie. Real Player....and WMV.

 

[kkaabboomm]

so wait, cnn and msnbc on my tv have pundits still talking, and showing the big U shaped table empty - where are they? cspan has them on their sites live-stream somewhere?

 

[grandjedi6]

I don't know McCain or Obama's individual positions but here are the position of the Republican and Democratic party:
.

McCain supports having a referendum for Puerto Rico to choose its fate

Obama realizes that there is an unequality in Puerto Rico and that they should be representated. He says most of this will have to be addressed while resolving Puerto Rico's status issue. He wouldn't promise anything though since it is a state (Puerto Rico) issue and a congressional one. Says the President him/herself does not have the power to solve this alone

 

[Incognito]

They're not back, yet. No big deal.

 

[Odrion]

The rule committee can't even follow their own rules.

 

[thekad]

It is interesting hearing these regular folks calling in on C-Span and seeing their flawed arguments.

 

[Incognito]

The rule committee can't even follow their own rules.

Anyone who has attended their county/state conventions know the process unfolding on teevee right now is simply their process writ large. Expect delays. It's not unusual. It's still maddening, though.

 

[lexdysia]

Superdelegates need super-lunches. Don't hate the voters hate the game.

 

[DrForester]

They're figuring out the best way to tell the audience that 100% of Florida and Michigan will be seated and all will be for Clinton.

They said the Obama campaign had poor planning in taking their name off Michigan, but that wasn't all.

Obama only bought Edwards a Jet Ski, Clinton got everyone on the rules committee one.

 

[Trakdown]

What the fuck is wrong with MSNBC? Every time they bring up Pelosi, Reid and Dean stepping in, they talk about how their stopping a scorched earth policy and say that they're sending a message to "one of their candidates" that it won't work.

"One of their candidates" has a fucking name, you spineless fucks. This intimating shit makes me want to puke.

 

[GoldenEye 007]

These callers are... wow.

 

[lexdysia]

At this rate the shuttle will launch before lunch is over.

 

[scorcho]

Oh the irony in an Obama supporter voting in protest for Republicans/McCain because he can't stand the drama of Clinton whiners.

CowboyAstronaut, if you see politics more about the personalities and vapid rhetoric than actual policies then GTFO and become an ardent Republican. there's no loss.

 

[kkaabboomm]

cnn confirms they are meeting behind closed doors to try and come up with a solution without yelling at each other in public...

 

[Tamanon]

I don't think they want to see Ickes schooled by Donna Brazile.

BTW....Wexler for VP

BOOOOOOOOOOSH goes the shuttle!

 

[kkaabboomm]

yeah, good sidenote:

godspeed Discovery

 

[kkaabboomm]

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/01/us/politics/01dems.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin

Mrs. Clinton’s associates said she seemed to have come to terms over the last week with the near-certainty that she will not win the nomination, even as she continues to assert, with what one associate described as subdued resignation, that the Democrats are making a mistake in sending Mr. Obama up against Senator John McCain.

the talk in Mrs. Clinton’s headquarters has turned from the primary to more mundane matters: the next job, who Mr. Obama might hire from the Clinton campaign, and even where to go on vacation.

 

[evil solrac v3.0]

its 5 15 PM. where are they?

 

[Tamanon]

its 5 15 PM. where are they?

Watching the shuttle launch!

Plus they don't wanna argue too much in public

 

[kkaabboomm]

5:08: Two sources with knowledge of the rules and bylaws committee's closed-door luncheon say that members of the committee are arguing over a resolution to Michigan's conundrum, having largely settled on a solution for Florida. They're settling this behind closed doors, at this point... which may fuel some conspiracy theories, depending upon what they ultimately decide.

http://marcambinder.theatlantic.com/

 

[lexdysia]

"Meeting in camera" means "off camera" apparently.

Edit:Yes. Bicameral means two houses, so technically it means "in house." I was making a joke.

/preemptive correction

 

[Incognito]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DesyhrRYtB0&eurl=http://marcambinder.theatlantic.com/

oh lord..

 

[thefro]

Chuck Todd said the committee is deciding between 50/50 for MI and 69/59.

The Clinton proposal is dead!

 

[soul creator]

this is so weird to me...if you wanted to make sure your delegates were seated in full...shouldn't you have not moved your primary date?

That was like...the obvious way to make sure your votes counted. And if the system was so messed up, protest and try to get it changed officially before the process starts, not in the middle of it.

 

[reilo]

Chuck Todd said the committee is deciding between 50/50 for MI and 69/59.

The Clinton proposal is dead!

Obama wins either way?

FUCK YEAAAA

 

[KRS7]

"Meeting in camera" means "off camera" apparently.

Edit:Yes. Bicameral means two houses, so technically it means "in house." I was making a joke.

/preemptive correction

camera means chamber not house.

/nitpicking correction

 

[Incognito]

this is so weird to me...if you wanted to make sure your delegates were seated in full...shouldn't you have not moved your primary date?

Get the hell out of here with your logic.

 

[lexdysia]

camera means chamber not house.

/nitpicking correction

This meeting makes me want to empty the chamber. At my house.

/clunky suicide reference

 

[Instigator]

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/01/us/politics/01dems.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin

Why does the US media almost always report those stories uncritically?

Maybe Hillary believes Obama can't win, it's a possibility, but why is the raw ambition of her becoming president regardless whether Obama can win or not rarely explored?

 

[grandjedi6]

this is so weird to me...if you wanted to make sure your delegates were seated in full...shouldn't you have not moved your primary date?

That was like...the obvious way to make sure your votes counted. And if the system was so messed up, protest and try to get it changed officially before the process starts, not in the middle of it.

oh com'n, it's not like Michigan was warned what would happen if they moved their primary date ahead and even saw the same thing happen to another state. Surely this didn......oh

 

[StopMakingSense]

Why does the US media almost always report those stories uncritically?

Maybe Hillary believes Obama can't win, it's a possibility, but why is the raw ambition of her becoming president regardless whether Obama can win or not rarely explored?

I think Clintons have become so sold on their DLC PATH TO VICTORY, that they are convinced that theirs is the SOLE path to Democrat victory.

 

[Rur0ni]

oh com'n, it's not like Michigan was warned what would happen if they moved their primary date ahead and even saw the same thing happen to another state. Surely this didn......oh

If anything, now that all this has happened, maybe they will fix the primary schedule.