PoliGAF Thread of THE END and FIST POUNDS (NYT: Hillary drop out/endorse Saturday)

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AniHawk said:
Pretty much.

I doubt Bill Clinton endorses him too.
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I agree. Bill won't endorse, and Hillary will mention the need to unite behind Obama in her concession speech )whenever the hell that is), then we won't hear from her in awhile.

I don't buy her "I'll work tirelessly for whoever the nominee is" bullshit for a fucking second.
 
sp0rsk said:
I wonder what her plan is. She obviously has ulterior motives behind not dropping out.
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In fairness, the only credit we gave Huckabee was "he's a flippin' idiot".
 
Amir0x said:
He can adopt a new church quickly. I think what it paints about Obama's ability to withstand controversy that matters here. He should not buckle. It disenfranchises African Americans who rightfully don't comprehend why the media has deconstructed the fire and brimstone rants of a reverend, since it is a common thing in these communities. And it can damage his image as one disaffected by the prevailing political winds, another key point.
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Eh, some will make those claims, but I think they'd be misguided.

This isn't Obama divorcing himself from a policy stance or a political ally or anything. It's a non-political entity that he feels is being harmed by unwittingly being drawn into politics via a media circus.

Also, this in no way "disenfranchises" anyone. Can we quit watering that concept down?
 
Amir0x said:
He can adopt a new church quickly. I think what it paints about Obama's ability to withstand controversy that matters here. He should not buckle. It disenfranchises African Americans who rightfully don't comprehend why the media has deconstructed the fire and brimstone rants of a reverend, since it is a common thing in these communities. And it can damage his image as one disaffected by the prevailing political winds, another key point.
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The media completely tarnished Rev. Wright's decades of community work, character, and future. The media will likely do the same with Michael Pfleger. The media has unfairly labeled his church as "radical" over a few minutes of sound bites, as a result, they're seen nation wide as something they're not and have even received death threats. This whole charade has hindered Obama, Obama's family, and the members of the church from their intended usage of Trinity... prayer and worship.
 
RubxQub said:
In fairness, the only credit we gave Huckabee was "he's a flippin' idiot".
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Of course, Huckabee wasn't actively building an anti-McCain movement within his own party. He was just being a goofball, or something like that.
 
kkaabboomm said:
http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/05/31/1091448.aspx


this. this this this. he could've done what he wanted, and he would've won the vote. however, he decided to go with the compromise solution as a way to meet them halfway. and still ickes flips his shit. ickes wanted 0 compromise whatsoever, obama actually went halfway. he could've won and pointed to the ruling as 'well, the RBC voted, and said michigan never happened, period' instead, he gave some. not all, he did not give them everything, but he gave some and still they shit bricks.
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I don't understand that math. I thought I heard that it was a 2/3s majority needed to pass a motion, in which case, the motion they went with also just narrowly passed. I thought that's what madame co-chair said when the first motion came up.
 
sp0rsk said:
I wonder what her plan is. She obviously has ulterior motives behind not dropping out.
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her plan at this point is hoping for another RFK type event. She even made a passing notion as to its not over til its over cause look what happened to RFK
 
Dan said:
I don't understand that math. I thought I heard that it was a 2/3s majority needed to pass a motion, in which case, the motion they went with also just narrowly passed.
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negative. it's 2/3's to close debate, but, as the chair said, no one objected to closing debate, so they just closed debate. the way to pass a motion is a simple majority
 
the disgruntled gamer said:
Of course, Huckabee wasn't actively building an anti-McCain movement within his own party. He was just being a goofball, or something like that.
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True :)
 
Dan said:
I don't understand that math. I thought I heard that it was a 2/3s majority needed to pass a motion, in which case, the motion they went with also just narrowly passed. I thought that's what madame co-chair said when the first motion came up.
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Assuming they follow Robert's Rules of Order, they need a 50%+1 majority to pass any regular motion. 2/3 majority motions are reserved for suspending Robert's Rules of Order and/or other constitutional changes, plus a couple of other things.

Edit: I really sometimes hate fast moving threads... Back to lurking!
 
kkaabboomm said:
negative. it's 2/3's to close debate, but, as the chair said, no one objected to closing debate, so they just closed debate. the way to pass a motion is a simple majority
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Ah, gotcha. Thanks.
 
laserbeam said:
her plan at this point is hoping for another RFK type event. She even made a passing notion as to its not over til its over cause look what happened to RFK
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I dislike Hillary as much as anyone right now but don't be childish. Even though her slip of the tongue was noteworthy and she deserved to be called out for it, she's not hoping he gets shot, either. Stop that.
 
VALIS said:
I dislike Hillary as much as anyone right now but don't be childish. Even though her slip of the tongue was noteworthy and she deserved to be called out for it, she's not hoping he gets shot, either. Stop that.
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This is the Clintons were talking about. Strange Deaths and Shady as fuck deals are all their history is full of. I would not put it past the Clintons one bit to be hoping Obama is shot.
 
VALIS said:
I dislike Hillary as much as anyone right now but don't be childish. Even though her slip of the tongue was noteworthy and she deserved to be called out for it, she's not hoping he gets shot, either. Stop that.
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Until I saw a history of her bringing up assassination, I was willing to give her the benefit of the doubt too.
 
All things considered Florida and Michigan both got a more than fair shake today. They basically both got what they wanted, a compromise between both candidates.

Not only that, Ickes needs to STFU, because Michigan really should have gotten ZERO delegates, because that is what was agreed upon. You can't have them rule to seat the delegates and then be unhappy by the split. That wasn't an option.

Also, when video of the Ickes thing comes up, I wanna see it (I only heard audio).
 
The RBC decision came out more or less as I expected. This thing's finally inching towards being over, thank god.

I think you guys are fooling yourselves if you don't think Hillary will campaign fervently for Obama in the fall. She ain't stupid; if Obama loses the general, many in the Democratic Party will probably blame her for dividing the party and weakening his chances, hurting her chances to ever run again. So, considering she wants to set herself up for a 2012 presidential bid (assuming Obama loses) she's probably going to be among Obama's most active campaigners, and I'm sure she'll let everyone know about it every chance she gets. That way she can put herself in good stead with the party faithful when 2012 does roll around. Or so she would like to think, anyway.
 
kablooey said:
The RBC decision came out more or less as I expected. This thing's finally inching towards being over, thank god.

I think you guys are fooling yourselves if you don't think Hillary will campaign fervently for Obama in the fall. She ain't stupid; if Obama loses the general, many in the Democratic Party will probably blame her for dividing the party and weakening his chances, hurting her chances to ever run again. So, considering she wants to set herself up for a 2012 presidential bid (assuming Obama loses) she's probably going to be among Obama's most active campaigners, and I'm sure she'll let everyone know about it every chance she gets. That way she can put herself in good stead with the party faithful when 2012 does roll around. Or so she would like to think, anyway.
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If it gets to 2012 and she decides to run after a potential Obama loss, I hope Gore runs against her.
 
VPhys said:
The crowd at the DNC rules debate was out of control. They should have done this is without an audience.
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As if complaints about smoke-filled back room dealings won't be loud enough as is.
 
It isn't so much that she is a divider, it is her character. What she has displayed is ugliness from a person. I will never vote for that.
 
TheGrayGhost said:
Incidentally, an ancient South American civilization predicted the end of the world to occur on 2012.
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not really and it's best not to repeat folklore unless you're sure it's correct---and that was the joke they were making anyway
 
kablooey said:
The RBC decision came out more or less as I expected. This thing's finally inching towards being over, thank god.

I think you guys are fooling yourselves if you don't think Hillary will campaign fervently for Obama in the fall. She ain't stupid; if Obama loses the general, many in the Democratic Party will probably blame her for dividing the party and weakening his chances, hurting her chances to ever run again. So, considering she wants to set herself up for a 2012 presidential bid (assuming Obama loses) she's probably going to be among Obama's most active campaigners, and I'm sure she'll let everyone know about it every chance she gets. That way she can put herself in good stead with the party faithful when 2012 does roll around. Or so she would like to think, anyway.
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If she campaigns hard for Obama and he wins, she loses (that means no 2012 option which is highly unlikely as it is). If she doesn't campaign hard for Obama, she loses, since she hasn't made much friends in the democratic party with her scorched-earth approach to things.

Her best bet is to campaign hard for Obama enough to guarantee a win and to change perception so she won't be despised in democratic circles.
 
Dan said:
As if complaints about smoke-filled back room dealings won't be loud enough as is.
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They could have (and should have) just allowed cameras without an audience. Like congress coverage on C-Span.
 
Obama's church thing: Isn't this exactly what his critics were demanding that he do? It's not as though he personally had any control over the pulpit of that church, so if other people didn't like the message they must have been telling him to leave rather than... what? Charging the pulpit with a bat every time someone said something offensive to someone somewhere?

Still we'll hear criticisms of him leaving from the same people who were yelling about Pastorgate, probably within hours.
 
Evlar said:
Obama's church thing: Isn't this exactly what his critics were demanding that he do? It's not as though he personally had any control over the pulpit of that church, so if other people didn't like the message they must have been telling him to leave rather than... what? Charging the pulpit with a bat every time someone said something offensive to someone somewhere?

Still we'll hear criticisms of him leaving from the same people who were yelling about Pastorgate, probably within hours.
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Leaving the church now after the defense he gave it before plays into the he was using it for political purposes. The best thing would have been not to leave the church and just denounce the idiots who go off the deep end. He threw every member of the church under the bus.
 
Ripclawe said:
Leaving the church now after the defense he gave it before plays into the he was using it for political purposes. The best thing would have been not to leave the church and just denounce the idiots who go off the deep end. He threw every member of the church under the bus.
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So your view is... There are good political motivations he shouldn't have left, particularly that leaving looks politically motivated.
 
Evlar said:
Obama's church thing: Isn't this exactly what his critics were demanding that he do? It's not as though he personally had any control over the pulpit of that church, so if other people didn't like the message they must have been telling him to leave rather than... what? Charging the pulpit with a bat every time someone said something offensive to someone somewhere?

Still we'll hear criticisms of him leaving from the same people who were yelling about Pastorgate, probably within hours.
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It was either this or have the church under the media's microscope from here on out. That's not fair to him and it's not fair to the church.
 
I read that Lanny Davis and Bill Nelson got in a heated argument after the the RBC and Bill Nelson told Lanny Davis to shut up and mocked him. :lol
 
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