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[Jebusman]

They did actually mention multiple times yesterday how they strive for historical accuracy.

The problem with that kind of statement is whether or not they're aiming for accuracy on all fronts, or just trying to stay true to certain basic things like how guns looked, acted, the settings themselves, while taking artistic liberties with others.

If they came out and said "this is going to be a 1/1 adaption of WW2" then yeah I'd see a problem with trying to revise certain parts to fit with modern views.

But "historical accuracy" can mean many things, and be selectively enforced. I don't think it had to be an all or nothing situation.

 

[Erevador]

Polygon clickbait continually hits new lows.

I very much resent this tactic of pre-emptive critique. We've seen two minutes of footage. The "diverse" content in the game has been mentioned, but not seen. You shouldn't write a loaded think-piece like this about a massive blockbuster game based only on the first teaser which doesn't even address the elements of the game that are being discussed. There is nothing to think about or analyse at this point, it's a totally corrupt, click-seeking endeavor on the part of Polygon and other sites like them.

Remember those early outraged articles about the lack of female characters in the Force Awakens.... and how the movie then turned out to have a female protagonist?

Save your hacky, grad-school analysis for after the release date.

 

[Iscariot]

Regardless of who is making the game it seems odd to see that stuff tacked on as a PR blurb after showing us yet another landing on Normandy and fighting on the western front..

Why not feature the 442nd? A highly decorated infantry regiment made up of Japanese-Americans (mostly from Hawaii) who fought for a country that was also interning people who had the same background. To me that just seems ripe for great story telling, although not what I would expect from COD.

It's possible that the story sections that they are talking about end up being a significant part of the game. Which I hope is the case. From what we have seen though that seems unlikely.

Even if the Polygon writer badly misses the point and seems to be catering to an audience that wants to get offended, there is a point to be made here. Is this about really showcasing the variety of ways people experienced WWII or is this about just redoing the same movie that John Wayne was in 60 years ago.

I've been waiting for a "Go For Broke" military shooter forever, but I don't see this as such an affront. For one, they're likely launching this as a new series line since Advanced Warfare didn't click and as such the possibility of the Pacific, Northern Africa and Italy are still open to explore. Beside that the Normandy landing is the steak and potatoes of this genre. Also, it's kind of like complaining to an actor that they're doing Hamlet. To my knowledge these particular devs haven't done D-Day before, it's probably fun to throw your hat into the ring and show the world what you can do.

I guess we're all waiting till November to know for sure though.

 

[Najaf]

Full disclosure: I do not visit Polygon

With that said, it is mind boggling to me how tainted their brand is in my mind. My original reason for not making their site a regular visit for me was the laughable response to fans' criticism of the ME3 ending. They essentially threw their target audience under the bus shortly after launching the site, mocking those who were left unsatisfied and even upset by the supposed conclusion to an otherwise promising trilogy.

Perhaps that was a trivial item to take a stand on for me, but from then on, I've made a point to not visit the site. There is only so much bandwidth in the day, and that was an easy call to make at the onset of their launch.

Since then, I've only been exposed to peripheral brand impressions and it amazes me how they have seemingly failed to build a reputation as a credible voice in the space. While I never liked Christopher Grant (admittedly due to his persona on the Joystiq podcasts), I had, for the most part, enjoyed the McElroy brothers and some of the others that formed up to make Polygon a reality. The subsequent stench that site has left in its wake baffles me given the 'talent' they have on board. From the tone here on GAF, it seems I'm far from the only one with this impression.

 

[Ken Adams]

I think Ironcreed is a great member and a great poster here on NeoGAF. I just think he didn't understand what all this talk about white privilege is and some went ham on him and bam, he lost his temper.

Ironcreed, i like you. Don't leave.

ironcreed
Banned
I think a decision was already made for him. Wonder if its a perma or not.

 

[Charles Brandon]

Full disclosure: I do not visit Polygon

With that said, it is mind boggling to me how tainted their brand is in my mind. My original reason for not making their site a regular visit for me was the laughable response to fans' criticism of the ME3 ending. They essentially threw their target audience under the bus shortly after launching the site, mocking those who were left unsatisfied and even upset by the supposed conclusion to an otherwise promising trilogy.

Perhaps that was a trivial item to take a stand on for me, but from then on, I've not made a point to visit the site.

Since then, I've only been exposed to peripheral brand impressions and it amazes me how they have seemingly failed to build a reputation as a credible voice in the space. While I never liked Christopher Grant (admittedly due to his persona on the Joystiq podcasts), I had, for the most part, enjoyed the McElroy brothers and some of the others that formed up to make Polygon a reality. The subsequent stench that site has left in its wake baffles me given the 'talent' they have on board. From the tone here on GAF, it seems I'm far from the only one with this impression.

The problem is that if your USP is writing about video games with an intellectual stance you need to find something to say that is different from what other blogs are saying. And that often results in posting contrarian opinions just to differentiate yourself.

 

[Prototype Viktor]

But I can imagine quite many types of characters that are not straight white men. (and I can't recall a game that didn't include women, or did you mean as protagonists?)

And shouldn't it depend on the context? I mean, say someone creates a game about raise of Zulu empire. Would not it make sense for that game to only include characters of African origin?

PS
I need to go offline, but will carefully read all answers tomorrow. Thank you in advance.

1) someone wouldn't even make a Zulu game
2) if they did and was from a big company the lead will most likely be a white male
3) Resident Evil already did 1 & 2

I think it's an issue of conflation. A diverse cast won't improve the mechanics, the frame-rate, level design, replayability... any of those things. In the question of what makes a quality game, I don't think diversity really isn't all that relevant. Improved diversity at the same time is unquestionably a social good. What's more important to video games as a whole? Well, that will come down to the individual.

Eh you can make a case against that if you knew someone went out of their way to make sure there was only white males in it. It could affect story, level design, replayability.

 

[Deckard Chapel]

First, where is the claim that Call of Duty WW2 is aiming to be historically accurate? Is it going to be a documentary?



Second, what did you learn in grade school, that American forces in WW2 were all-white? Cause if so, that's revisionism and already altered history in school.

There were 44K Native Americans of various tribes. There was a popular John Woo/Nicolas Cage movie about them, The Windtalkers.

There were around 45K Asian Americans: Japanese Americans, Chinese Americans, Filipino Americans.

250-500K Hispanic Americans, mostly of Mexican or Puerto Rican descent.

Then of course, there were a million African Americans in the armed forces, a bit more than 19K were Marines.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_minorities_in_the_US_armed_forces_during_World_War_II

Did you watch the reveal? They mentioned authenticity many times. The narrative is following the 1st Infantry Division starting from D-Day, then following their journey all the way to the invasion of Germany. By their own admission, Sledgehammer Games is aiming for authenticity as far as historical accuracy presented to the player. This primarily means where the game is set and the battles that took place along the way. Obviously artistic license will be taken with the dialogue and possibly some of the narrative and characters, but otherwise the journey is historically accurate as well as the settings, locations, weapons, items etc.

I'm well aware of the ethnic diversity of World War II.

Including races, genders and creeds just for the sake of doing it if they weren't really participating in this specific campaign, would not be historically accurate; which would be a shame to include things there that weren't. Why not have UFOs and aliens running around? How about birthday cakes playing trombones?

My point is that you can't argue historical facts. History happened and we can't change it. Polygon's "white-washing" article is fanning a flame that shouldn't have been ignited in the first place.

 

[Kalentan]

ironcreed
Banned
I think a decision was already made for him. Wonder if its a perma or not.

I think they ban people if they say they're going to leave GAF permanently.

Though probably not the best topic to discuss stuff like that.

 

[Charles Brandon]

A AAA Rourke's Drift game from the perspective of the Zulus would be huge examination of progress in the gaming community.

 

[Solo Act]

I never comment in these Polygon article threads, but to anyone wondering why they write these type of articles, it's plain to see right? This thread is at 12 pages and growing quickly (on a forum at a different site which has many users often voice their dislike of Polygon).

Imagine what the actual article view count is.

 

[AlimNassor]

Didn't we already establish that, on the Allied side alone there were:

Arabs
French colonial forces (presumably black Africans?)
Black US units
Japanese-American US units
Indians
Gurkhas
Maoris
and probably many more non-white troops.

So, as much as I have defended CR Projekt Red in the past in a similar debate, I really don't think that same argument works here.

We'll not get to see any of'em. It'll just be America Hurrah!

 

[Deckard Chapel]

I never comment in these Polygon article threads, but to anyone wondering why they write these type of articles, it's plain to see right? This thread is at 12 pages and growing quickly (on a forum at a different site which has many users often voice their dislike of Polygon).

Imagine what the actual article view count is.

The very definition of clickbait.

Unfortunately, reviews for COD: WWII will be all over the place.

 

[Charles Brandon]

Including races, genders and creeds just for the sake of doing it if they weren't really participating in this specific campaign, would not be historically accurate

Well, there were Indians at Monte Cassino, Maoris in Greece, Black Americans fought at The Battle of the Bulge. The stories are there if you want to tell them.

according to some articles I just googled anyway

 

[VincentMatts]

Nice try polygon, it will still sell like hotcakes.

 

[CannonFodder52]

1) someone wouldn't even make a Zulu game
2) if they did and was from a big company the lead will most likely be a white male
3) Resident Evil already did 1 & 2

Can't blame Japan though, right?

 

[Deckard Chapel]

Well, there were Indians at Monte Cassino, Maoris in Greece, Black Americans fought at The Battle of the Bulge. The stories are there if you want to tell them, you don't have to make stuff up.

according to some articles I just googled anyway

If an individual or group of individuals is portrayed accurately in COD: WWII and they were actually a part of the journey the 1st Infantry Division undertook, then I'm fine with that because it's historically accurate.

If they add an individual or group of individuals that most definitely were not there historically, then I take issue with their inclusion.

I really don't know why Polygon does things like this. Imagine how Sledgehammer Games feels right now, thanks to Polygon's "article".

 

[jennetics]

Freaking hell...devs are incapable of winning. This article is picking a fight for no damn reason.

 

[VincentMatts]

Freaking hell...devs are incapable of winning. This article is picking a fight for no damn reason.

This is the same thing that happens with halo. You cant win.

 

[Ripenen]

Freaking hell...devs are incapable of winning. This article is picking a fight for no damn reason.

Reason is they are desperate for page views in a world where sites like Polygon find it harder and harder to turn profit.

 

[drotahorror]

So hypocritical. They beg for diversity but when they get it, it's just marketing.

I will never give them a click.

 

[PaulBizkit]

they want you to think this is a more inclusive tale of World War II. It may yet be. We won’t know until Nov. 3

THEN WHY ARE YOU MAKING THIS ARTICLE?!?!?!?!?

It's like polygon blames COD for "pretending" to do something, when it's actually polygon who outright calls for attention saying things they are not even sure of...

They don't deserve a single click...

 

[Deleted member 17706]

I've only made it through the first few pages of this thread, and I'm certainly not one to defend Polygon, but doesn't "all-white production" refer to the stars of the show (the main protagonists), not the production team actually developing the game?

Just reading the OP, I interpreted it as them saying that all of the main characters are white, but they threw in some minorities on the sidelines as if to just check diversity boxes.

 

[Llyranor]

French colonial forces (presumably black Africans?)

Some Arab/North African (Algeria, Tunisia, Morocco), others black African

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senegalese_Tirailleurs

 

[Johndoey]

I think Ironcreed is a great member and a great poster here on NeoGAF. I just think he didn't understand what all this talk about white privilege is and some went ham on him and bam, he lost his temper.

Ironcreed, i like you. Don't leave.

Bruh. Ironcreed trotted out some "anti-white sentiment" bullshit got rightfully called out by other posters then threw a tantrum.

 

[Swiggins]

This article is garbage, it's no wonder people refuse to read Polygon if this is the dreck they're putting out consistently.

 

[antitrop]

This article is garbage, it's no wonder people refuse to read Polygon if this is the dreck they're putting out consistently.

They used to have decent articles, and then they fired Russ Pitts.

 

[Boss Mog]

Didn't we already establish that, on the Allied side alone there were:

Arabs
French colonial forces (presumably black Africans?)
Black US units
Japanese-American US units
Indians
Gurkhas
Maoris
and probably many more non-white troops.

So, as much as I have defended CR Projekt Red in the past in a similar debate, I really don't think that same argument works here.

Nobody disputes that people of all races fought in WW2 but the fact that military casualties from Germany and Russia alone make up 2/3 of all WW2 military casualties makes it clear that it was predominantly fought by white men. East Asians (China, Japan and Korea which was under Japanese rule at the time) had the second highest number of military casualties. Civilian casualties were also mostly white and east Asian. The Soviet Union had over 26 million casualties (military + civilian) which is like the population of Texas just suddenly being gone.

Also while some Arabs fought for the Allies, it because they were under colonial rule and forced to do so. The rest of the Arab world was very much aligned with Hitler and Nazi Germany.

 

[Charles Brandon]

No shit.

 

[Rabid Dwarf 76]

This article is bad and is being called out for it by people on both sides of the issue so where exactly is this antiwhite bullshit that you claim it so prevalent?

 

[Gold_Loot]

I haven't read the whole article but I have to admit , using some minority characters as a sales pitch bullet point does come off a bit tacky. By all means, have it in the games, but let the trailer, demos, and gameplay do the talking. Don't put it on a box.

 

[AfterTheFall]

It seems publishers and developers will never win with this sort of stuff being published.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

4 posts on an internet message board. Quite the cultural sea change.

Is this where I counter with YouTube and twitter comments slanted against people of color and women? Cause I bet I find a lot more than four.

 

[Zakalwe]

Polygon is a gutter rag these days.

I wish the people responsible for the good long-form articles would move on and start their own thing so we could block the rest of it.

-

Threads reminding me why I have certain people on ignore... I mean, I'm far from perfect in the way I present myself here, but some of you make this place really unpleasant at times.

 

[FonkyByNature]

ironcreed
Banned
I think a decision was already made for him. Wonder if its a perma or not.

Yeah, he's out i see.

Bruh. Ironcreed trotted out some "anti-white sentiment" bullshit got rightfully called out by other posters then threw a tantrum.

Got it, this is where he lost his shit. Well, i still think he contributes in a good way to NeoGAF and i like his input on some things. What makes this forum great is the people who post in it. Not saying Ironcreed is an amazing poster but he's mostly polite and contributes in a good way, well most of the time...

 

[Zakalwe]

Bruh. Ironcreed trotted out some "anti-white sentiment" bullshit got rightfully called out by other posters then threw a tantrum.

Par for the course with some people, unfortunately.

 

[rjcc]

Ban polygon. That is the only way to send a message. What a ridiculously racist article. Imagine if they had said all black production.

And it's not even true. Here is a dev going out of their way to include black people and women when saving private ryan and thin red line had like two combined. And they get ridiculed by some doychebag at polygon trying to create faux outrage.

Fucking Cunts.

So, this isn't how racism works. " Imagine if they had said all black production."

....then that would've been what they said.

mentioning race is not racism.

You are upset. That's fine.

 

[proto]

Has anyone watched the Livestream of the reveal? I think most of the authors' complaints were directed towards the presentation and not the game itself.

 

[Rabid Dwarf 76]

4 posts on an internet message board. Quite the cultural sea change.

Is this where I counter with YouTube and twitter comments slanted against people of color and women? Cause I bet I find a lot more than four.

I'm at work so it was just a quick post. You asked for one. I posted one. You are totally correct that we can go back and forth posting examples of shitty people being shitty but I don't have the time right now.

 

[Yaphett Kotto]

I like how there is no context to that screenshot.

 

[Socreges]

4 posts on an internet message board. Quite the cultural sea change.

Is this where I counter with YouTube and twitter comments slanted against people of color and women? Cause I bet I find a lot more than four.

There has definitely been an overall change in the last several months. People are angry about Trump, the increasing racism against minorities, and how such a large portion of white people in America made this all happen. So it's not just that one thread from November.

That said, ironcreed has lost the plot in this thread. Completely. And any decrying of anti-white sentiment needs to be put into context given that it's just some frustrated people on NeoGAF and not the institutions, the police, organized groups, etc etc. Certain popular corners of the internet are littered with racism against MINORITIES, not white people.

 

[CSJ]

4 posts on an internet message board. Quite the cultural sea change.

Is this where I counter with YouTube and twitter comments slanted against people of color and women? Cause I bet I find a lot more than four.

Why is it a competition with you? Fucking hell talk about ass backwards.

 

[Rabid Dwarf 76]

I like how there is no context to that screenshot.

My bad. Here is the link to the thread.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1317549&page=5

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Why is it a competition with you? Fucking hell talk about ass backwards.

Who said it's a competition? I asked for someone to back up their claim that things are getting "anti-white" in society and people are shitting on white people more prevalently and what I got was a couple of NeoGaf posts, as if those carry any weight in terms of the kind of societal and cultural shift being alluded to.

If that's the worst you can point to, a couple of fairly tame by the internet's standards message board posts, as evidence of how bad things are getting for white people, you are making my point for me.

 

[Yaphett Kotto]

My bad. Here is the link to the thread.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1317549&page=5

So, most of the posts are a (mostly tongue-in-cheek) reaction to how that NorthCrane site was trying to get people to boycott Mass Effect because one guy that worked on it made some offensive tweets. I wouldn't even take that site so seriously when they also make articles like this and
this.

Even though he was active on Twitter against white supremacy, his ideas were in the right place (diversity, representation, etc.) and the guy wasn't even in any administrative power, which is why you have the tongue-in-cheek posts in the first place.

And echoing what Scooter just said: its four posts. That isn't really proof of any shift, not even at this website's scale. lol

 

[Rabid Dwarf 76]

Who said it's a competition? I asked for someone to back up their claim that things are getting "anti-white" in society and people are shitting on white people more prevalently and what I got was a couple of NeoGaf posts, as if those carry any weight in terms of the kind of societal and cultural shift being alluded to.

If that's the worst you can point to, a couple of fairly tame by the internet's standards message board posts, as evidence of how bad things are getting for white people, you are making my point for me.

It wasn't the worst. I'm sure you've heard about the group that tortured that disabled guy for being white. They videotaped it too. You can read the story and watch the video in the link below.
http://www.fox32chicago.com/news/crime/227116738-story

 

[swarley64]

I don't want to give them a click, but is this a Ben Kuchera article? Just a hunch.

 

[Charles Brandon]

relevant to the discussion about anti-white racism

different context, same principle

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkCBhKs4faI

 

[DagnastyEp]

I don't want to give them a click, but is this a Ben Kuchera article? Just a hunch.

The authors of the article are Allegra Frank and Owen Good.

 

[Kalentan]

The authors of the article are Allegra Frank and Owen Good.

Well I can attest that this is not a good article.