Polygon: Xbox Scorpio will be a ~6 TFLOP system (v PS4K's 4.14), unveil soon, Fall 17

People are acting like Microsoft has to do some hardcore work to improve their image, but in reality the image of Xbox is perfectly fine. Xbox is an extremely popular and well respected brand. They just launched their new product with some circumstances being in Sony's favor, the biggest among them being price, and it obviously had a cementing effect on consumer preferences moving forward.
The Xbox brand is so popular that the moment they released a console that was only slightly less powerful than the competition, their entire overseas market evaporated.

What strength the Xbox brand had during the first few years of previous gen had already been turned into loose sand before the XB1 was announced.
 
Xbox One isn't a failed product, do you consider the slower selling Xbox 360 to be a failed product?

Xbox One is very much a failed product. To be blunt if you can't see why then you don't understand business.

Having to drop Kinect (immediately)
Having to drop the price (repeatedly)
Having to drop the TV / Multimedia Focus
Having to drop the online only initiative
Losing the COD marketing
Losing pulling power for other "moneyhats"
Being heavily outsold by your closest competitor
Several more

NONE of those were in the script whilst this product was in planning phase.

Them having somewhat rescued the situation is meaningless. The current Xbox One is nothing like it was planned to be, and that, from a purely business perspective is a failure. I assure you that their earnings as is are very different to the projected ones they will have had during build up. (in the billions)

Now they have damaged the brand from the 360 days and have an uphill battle to regain the same (or greater) popularity amongst consumers.
 
So, when exactly is a console "the best product on the market?". As much as I agree that performance is an important factor, "just" delivering the most powerful one doesn't translate into being the "best". Value-for-money and the software library for example also have to be taken into account here.

My point is: Some here seem to think that the only thing MS has to do to regain the XBOX 360 market shares is delivering the fastest console. But obviously it's not that easy, now isn't it?

No, of course it's not that easy, but that's not all Ms are doing either. Can they take marketshare back with all that? Who knows. I look forward though because they are heading towards something that sounds like it will be amazing.
 
150 pages on GAF and is thing's still not released?

Get your shit together, Phil.
 
Xbox One is very much a failed product. To be blunt if you can't see why then you don't understand business.

Having to drop Kinect (immediately)
Having to drop the price (repeatedly)
Having to drop the TV / Multimedia Focus
Having to drop the online only initiative
Losing the COD marketing
Losing pulling power for other "moneyhats"
Being heavily outsold by your closest competitor
Several more

NONE of those were in the script whilst this product was in planning phase.

Them having somewhat rescued the situation is meaningless. The current Xbox One is nothing like it was planned to be, and that, from a purely business perspective is a failure.

Now they have damaged the brand from the 360 days and have an uphill battle to regain the same (or greater) popularity amongst consumers.

I'm not going to derail this thread on a topic of whether or not the Xbox One is a failure but I'll address your points.

Having to drop Kinect (immediately)

It should have never been forced as part of the console to begin with but dropping it doesn't make Xbox One a failure, if anything it made it more successful.

Having to drop the price (repeatedly)

They didn't really drop the price repeatedly, they removed the Kinect and the price was lowered without the Kinect(of course it would be.). The price of the console with the Kinect remained the same for quite a long time.

Having to drop the TV / Multimedia Focus

This never happened, the Xbox One still has a TV/Multimedia focus just like the PS4 does.(Before you say the PS4 doesn't... Playstation Vue? How about the TV show they made?)

Just because they don't make it a large part of their E3 showings doesn't mean they abandoned it.

Having to drop the online only initiative

The Xbox One was never online only, the original plan required a check up every 24 hours but between those times it did not require you to maintain an internet connection. The Xbox One never launched with this anyway.

People like to confuse online only with always on which are two completely different concepts and both the Xbox One and PS4 are currently always on.

Losing the COD marketing

Has nothing at all to do with success, in fact Microsoft maintained the COD license for a larger part of this generation then Sony. Microsoft could have kept the partnership if they wanted to but they didn't.

Losing pulling power for other "moneyhats"
Being heavily outsold by your closest competitor

While both are valid reasons on why PS4 is more successful it doesn't make Xbox One a failed product.
 
Does Phil Spencer read neogaf threads and if he did wouldn't he be trying to disolve these rumours if they were'nt true.
 
Does Phil Spencer read neogaf threads and if he did wouldn't he be trying to disolve these rumours if they were'nt true.

Why would Phil dissolve rumors for the Scorpio when he was the one that started it all? Hell he even teased people about the leak.
 
All I'm saying is getting back the regions that made the 360 a 80M seller is all they need.

It's not like it's impossible -- Like at all.
.

The 360 got to where it was by beating the ps3 in the US by a ridiculous 2 to 1 margin. The only other region they were relevant in was the UK.

It's not really plausible that happens again.
 
Mentioned this earlier in the thread,but does anyone with more knowledge about game engines know how a more powerful system (in this case, Scorpio) effect games with dynamic settings like Halo 5 even without a patch?

I know there a few games that use techniques like dynamic resolution to help performance on the underpowered one. I wonder if the setting options in forza apex are a test for scaling games between PC and consoles with UWA.

Ms hasn't announced anything specific recently, but they've added apis in directx to handle that. I'm just not sure whether Forza 6 is a test of those apis, or if they had developed their own.

It will be interesting to see how it fares with other xbone games as well. When the SDK leaked a while back it was revealed that by default the output resolution is virtualized too, the developers set the VM to a target resolution or framerate and if the game fails to achieve a target the game os either drops the resolution to hit the framerate, or upscales or reduce the framerate to hit the desired resolution, and that was the default behavior. So there's a chance some games will probably just work in higher resolution/framerate without requiring a patch.
 
Now they have damaged the brand from the 360 days and have an uphill battle to regain the same (or greater) popularity amongst consumers.

And yet in their main NA market they're doing just fine, despite all the toxicity and posts like yours of doom and gloom for the "damaged brand"

Think about it, despite it all they've turned it around. The team over there should be commended for that.
 
Lol go back to any of your posts in this thread.

They read like a severe case of concern/damage control... Where all paths lead to failure for the console you undoubtedly will never buy

You want to name some posts or quote them?

Because I'm pretty sure I've been talking about sales and potential sales strategy in almost all of my posts. And I dont see how it's downplaying to state the current reality of XB1 sales and use that as a basis for seeing how a similar branded product will do a year or so from now.

And never buy? Make one too many assumptions there pal. I owned an XB1 for a good 6-8 months.
 
All I'm saying is getting back the regions that made the 360 a 80M seller is all they need.

It's not like it's impossible -- Like at all.

Xbox is still a huge brand and it won't take much to get people who have fled back on board.

I don't agree with this, many of those same people were on board with playstation before 360. Playstation has all genres covered, the main reason people left in the first place was sony's big fuck up with PS3, now they are back it will take another fuck up for large numbers of people to leave., Xbox is a big brand in North America only. 360 had a massive 2:1 lead in the US yet PS3 still sold faster....just think about that. All sony has to be is stay competitive in the US and they will coast world wide.

And yet in their main NA market they're doing just fine, despite all the toxicity and posts like yours of doom and gloom for the "damaged brand"

Think about it, despite it all they've turned it around. The team over there should be commended for that.

Turned it around by getting outsold in every country, even their strongest territory when their system is cheaper then the competition? I don't think MS sees that as good or a turn around.
 
We're calling Primethius fanboy now? Geez Leyasu, stating console market realities is not an attack on your favorite console/company.

Ms hasn't announced anything specific recently, but they've added apis in directx to handle that. I'm just not sure whether Forza 6 is a test of those apis, or if they had developed their own.

It will be interesting to see how it fares with other xbone games as well. When the SDK leaked a while back it was revealed that by default the output resolution is virtualized too, the developers set the VM to a target resolution or framerate and if the game fails to achieve a target the game os either drops the resolution to hit the framerate, or upscales or reduce the framerate to hit the desired resolution, and that was the default behavior. So there's a chance some games will probably just work in higher resolution/framerate without requiring a patch.

I'm gonna need a source for the bold, because I don't believe for a second there's a generic adaptive resolution solution that works in all situations.
 
And yet in their main NA market they're doing just fine, despite all the toxicity and posts like yours of doom and gloom for the "damaged brand"

Think about it, despite it all they've turned it around. The team over there should be commended for that.

I'm not posting doom and gloom for the sake of it, I'm posting facts. The only reason I did so is because others initiated the line of conversation with me. I would much prefer to keep close to the topic at hand, but with little information these threads always diverge.

The team are on an upward trajectory and I'm excited to see what they bring in the next 5 years or so, but lets not obfuscate reality and pretend it's all "happy days".
 
Actually, in some markets, it won't. It's true that Xbox is a behemoth of a brand and service in the US, but it also is within the Americas. Xbox dominates in Mexico and Brazil, due to localization and factories being there (which bring low prices compared to Sony Playstation) and those two are the most important markets in the Americas after USA and Canada.

How could Sony compete with their console in Brazil (for example) if their console costs there nearly US$1000 due to import taxes, when the XBone costs roughly US$400 there?

In fact, in almost all the countries in Latin America, the XBone is actually cheaper (and sometimes a lot cheaper) than PS4.

Oh, and by the way, I don't know the rest of LatAm, but in Chile the Xbox 360 sold a whole lot more than the PS3, due to being cheaper and being able to "mod" it (it's actually ridiculously high the number of consoles modded here).

All those markets are small, thus sony's 20 million lead that keeps getting bigger, also source for sales numbers? That only really proves my point.
 
Mentioned this earlier in the thread,but does anyone with more knowledge about game engines know how a more powerful system (in this case, Scorpio) effect games with dynamic settings like Halo 5 even without a patch?

I know there a few games that use techniques like dynamic resolution to help performance on the underpowered one. I wonder if the setting options in forza apex are a test for scaling games between PC and consoles with UWA.

Depends how the engine implements the scaling - if it's tracking rendering load dynamically, and scaling when frametime (or some other metric) hits certain thresholds, it should scale automatically on faster hardware (unless that hardware is doing something to cripple itself to perform like the old hardware for backwards compatibility purposes, like the Wii U booted into Wii mode).

You could also theoretically use some kind of predictive system, using your knowledge of how your engine performs (which on fixed hardware, should be fairly static and easy to predict) to scale based on number of entities/effects/etc on-screen at any one time. In that case, it wouldn't scale automatically. But I don't think I've ever heard of a game that did that (the idtech engines and the Wipeout game on PS3 that had dynamic res all used the former method, I believe).

As for the Forza Apex stuff, I suspect that the engine has been doing that kind of stuff under the covers the whole time (at least to some extent), and that's how Forza has always managed to maintain 60fps so reliably, with Apex (being a PC game, where people expect maximum tweakability) just giving us a glimpse under the hood at the inner workings of the engine, so to speak.
 
I don't agree with this, many of those same people were on board with playstation before 360. Playstation has all genres covered, the main reason people left in the first place was sony's big fuck up with PS3, now they are back it will take another fuck up for large numbers of people to leave., Xbox is a big brand in North America only.



Turned it around by getting outsold in every country, even their strongest territory when their system is cheaper then the competition? I don't think MS sees that as good or a turn around.

That managed to sell 80M. The brand is fine. Playstation brand is fine. They can co-exists and both make tons of money. Jeez! Apple and Android both co-exist just fine. The market is there for two major players.
 
That managed to sell 80M. The brand is fine. Playstation brand is fine. They can co-exists and both make tons of money. Jeez! Apple and Android both co-exist just fine. The market is there for two major players.

They managed to in the past with sony giving them the market to themselves for a year , launching at a higher price and running games much worse. Those days are gone. No one is saying they can't co-exist......
 
That managed to sell 80M. The brand is fine. Playstation brand is fine. They can co-exists and both make tons of money. Jeez! Apple and Android both co-exist just fine. The market is there for two major players.

Both consoles managed to sell 160 million units last gen. Both sold 80 million (at least). How anyone can think that a single brand can fit that need is beyond me.
 
I don't agree with this, many of those same people were on board with playstation before 360. Playstation has all genres covered, the main reason people left in the first place was sony's big fuck up with PS3, now they are back it will take another fuck up for large numbers of people to leave., Xbox is a big brand in North America only.



Turned it around by getting outsold in every country, even their strongest territory when their system is cheaper then the competition? I don't think MS sees that as good or a turn around.

Pretty sure Microsoft has brand recognition throughout the world. If they make a great product, they will get sales. Except for in Japan. They won't budge unless you release Dragon Quest, Monter Hunter, Final Fantasy, and Waifu simulator X, exclusive. They should rename the console there to Gundam Extreme XBOX and have it come with a signed autograph from an idol. Then it will capture like 7% of the market.
 
Microsoft can't wait until 2017. They would be inclined to rush the product to market. Who will buy an XBone from now until holiday 2017? It will be a minimal

Sony would be first to market, have a whole year to gain a larger lead and build 'next-next-gen' install base.

What would the XBscorpio offer over NEO? more TFlops? that would only matter for Microsoft exclusives, which IMO is the biggest problem for Microsoft. All other games, just as it is now, will be optimized to the lowest common denominator. ( Still hope Sony bumps up their clock speeds, possibly getting a new cpu if it doesn't cause too many problems )
 
I think Microsoft DOES have a lot of work to do in order to improve their image. Their premier franchises are in serious decline, and they seem to be doubling down on them rather than investing substantially in new products. I just think there's a lot less excitement for the Xbox brand these days than during the early 360 cycle where Gears wowed audiences and was an exclusive next gen showcase title, Halo 3 released to humongous popularity, and they rode the wave of key multiplatform pillars like CoD. It all seems rather ho-hum. The Xbox One is the only Xbox product I have not owned, and I just fail to see any compelling reason to do so. I'd like to be proven wrong, and I'd be much more excited with Microsoft announcing lots of really cool, tangible games and new properties than I would if they simply announced a powerful system upgrade.

I don't really see a large consumer base that previously owned a PS4 somehow switching to Xbox Scorpio just because it could be more powerful. It would have to involve either huge missteps by Sony, or Microsoft offering REALLY compelling exclusives.

Right now I don't think either is all that likely, so I think the dust has pretty much settled in terms of ecosystems. This gen was pivotal in establishing that since digital is now more common and the current systems weren't backwards compatible at the time, so there was little risk in switching.

Quantum Break suggests a real commitment to invest in new things. Your failure to recognize Microsoft's efforts is not the same as those efforts not actually existing. There's also scalebound on the way. Recore on the way. Don't forget Sunset Overdrive. I just don't get this idea that Microsoft hasn't been aggressive here. And Halo as a franchise has never been better in terms of its quality. I don't give a damn what metacritic says. I put my own view above the views of anyone else that isn't me, and it only makes sense to handle things that way. I don't need a website to tell me I enjoyed Halo 4 and 5's campaign, overall story and characters more than I enjoyed them in Halo 3, which I honestly felt was never nearly as good as people were hyping it to be. I respect Bungie as much as the next guy, and appreciate what they have done and what their efforts have meant to the Halo universe, but the 343i Halo titles are just plain better from a campaign standpoint. I can't speak to MP because I honestly don't play Halo MP. Maybe one of these days I'll jump on board and really give it a shot, but I just haven't been able to commit myself to it just yet.

As far as Gears is concerned, I've found it difficult to really get excited about the franchise ever since the first game. Maybe it's just not for me, I don't know, but I do know that Microsoft is, and has been, bringing it in the games department since introducing the xbox one. They haven't somehow been absent in that regard.
 
Depends how the engine implements the scaling - if it's tracking rendering load dynamically, and scaling when frametime (or some other metric) hits certain thresholds, it should scale automatically on faster hardware (unless that hardware is doing something to cripple itself to perform like the old hardware for backwards compatibility purposes, like the Wii U booted into Wii mode).

You could also theoretically use some kind of predictive system, using your knowledge of how your engine performs (which on fixed hardware, should be fairly static and easy to predict) to scale based on number of entities/effects/etc on-screen at any one time. In that case, it wouldn't scale automatically. But I don't think I've ever heard of a game that did that (the idtech engines and the Wipeout game on PS3 that had dynamic res all used the former method, I believe).

As for the Forza Apex stuff, I suspect that the engine has been doing that kind of stuff under the covers the whole time (at least to some extent), and that's how Forza has always managed to maintain 60fps so reliably, with Apex (being a PC game, where people expect maximum tweakability) just giving us a glimpse under the hood at the inner workings of the engine, so to speak.

I'm going to stop you right there because I can already see the PC gamers heads exploding. They don't want dynamic anything. They want total control. Total access to the exe.
 
All I'm saying is getting back the regions that made the 360 a 80M seller is all they need.

It's not like it's impossible -- Like at all.

Xbox is still a huge brand and it won't take much to get people who have fled back on board.

"Much"? Well good fucking luck! MS have been trying to do that since day one, and they have doing a shit ton of changes for that exact reason and yet they're not succeeding.
 
Mentioned this earlier in the thread,but does anyone with more knowledge about game engines know how a more powerful system (in this case, Scorpio) effect games with dynamic settings like Halo 5 even without a patch?

I know there a few games that use techniques like dynamic resolution to help performance on the underpowered one. I wonder if the setting options in forza apex are a test for scaling games between PC and consoles with UWA.

I was actually wondering this myself.

Wolfenstein Old Blood/New Order, CoD: AW, Halo 5, Witcher 3, & Doom all have dynamic resolutions so I'm hoping when they're carried forward that the resolution bumps up to a steady 1080 with the better hardware.
 
They managed to in the past with sony giving them the market to themselves for a year , launching at a higher price and running games much worse. Those days are gone. No one is saying they can't co-exist......

What days are gone? Xbox is finished. It will never sell even though X1 has sold 20M.

Is this a console warz thing?
 
"Much"? Well good fucking luck! MS have been trying to do that since day one, and they have doing a shit ton of changes for that exact reason and yet they're not succeeding.

Doesn't take luck at all. Release a system without controversy and a system that people love again. You people are silly that they'll NEVER SELL AGAIN!
 
150 pages on GAF and is thing's still not released?

Get your shit together, Phil.

lol.

CjfH2HkUUAAE1pg.jpg
 
I was actually wondering this myself.

Wolfenstein Old Blood/New Order, CoD: AW, Halo 5, Witcher 3, & Doom all have dynamic resolutions so I'm hoping when they're carried forward that the resolution bumps up to a steady 1080 with the better hardware.

Games won't magically upscale. Would require a patch from dev.
 
Man, this is the most depressing and pessimistic Xbox thread in a while. And that's saying something lol. Hopefully they have some solid plans (including for people like me with a PC and no Xbox). I don't mind being in their ecosystem if the games are quality. Seems they're merging the 2 platforms even more going forward so that plus the Scorpion should be interesting.
 
Doesn't take luck at all. Release a system without controversy and a system that people love again. You people are silly that they'll NEVER SELL AGAIN!

It will sell and probably have better sales than XB1 having alone in market, but you're crazy if you think it will give Xbox the same popularity of the 360 days. Part of the reasons of 360 popularity was Sony fucking up with PS3 in a major way, so unless you get real "lucky" and Sony fucked it up again, these old days are not gonna repeat.
 
I'm not going to derail this thread on a topic of whether or not the Xbox One is a failure but I'll address your points.
/snip
While both are valid reasons on why PS4 is more successful it doesn't make Xbox One a failed product.
2:1 market share vs last gen, plus 180 of almost every policy that made xbox the Xbox, plus exclusives like Tomb Raider and Halo5 performing worse than any generation before it tends to paint that 'failed' console light around the Xbone.

It's not true of course, but perceptions and all that.

Also doesn't help that MS refuse to reveal sales numbers for the first time ever. MAU's are practically a meme by now. They could add a single user to the list and still claim 'highest MAU count in Xbox history!!1!1!' Which is just silly.
 
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