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PopGAF |OT7.5| ReMix - Stanning Sarah Palin since November 2013
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You Know Nothing
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It's a good move, I think.
ARTPOP has its flaws, but it's a great album overall, and a glorious return to form for Gaga after the MESS that was BTW. So it's sad that this era, which deserves to be a big moment for her, has been so damn messy with the promotion. There's no way this album is going to perform as well as it deserves to, so it's good that Gaga's getting ahead of the story, as it were, and cleaning house now.
ARTPOP has its flaws, but it's a great album overall, and a glorious return to form for Gaga after the MESS that was BTW. So it's sad that this era, which deserves to be a big moment for her, has been so damn messy with the promotion. There's no way this album is going to perform as well as it deserves to, so it's good that Gaga's getting ahead of the story, as it were, and cleaning house now.
You Know Nothing
Member
Supermanisdead
Member
all this revisionist history from crazy monsters. fame/the fame monster still absolutely shits on anything i've heard after it, except edge of glory. the few songs ive heard from artpop couldnt even stand as fame b-sides. better than stillborn this way, but nowhere near pure original gaga.
Soulscribe
Member
In other news, Xtina looks great
but sounds like shet.
WhereAreMahDragonz
Banned
You Know Nothing
Member
Sis, the Born This Way defense force consists of like four people in this thread.
Soulscribe
Member
Whenever I hear people say stuff like this I feel like they haven't listened to The Fame in a long time. The album isn't very good. And that's coming from me.
You Know Nothing
Member
The tea, spill it.
I tried listening to The Fame again a while back. Apart from the singles, it's filler trash.
And Paparazzi is the only truly great one if I'm being honest.
Supermanisdead
Member
Nope, because I already wrote it. I'm not about to just delete all that now!
Besides, we wouldn't be having this conversation if you'd just said, "I don't like the sound of her voice." But I haven't been talking about whether you like her (or trying to get you to); you just chose to say other things that weren't true and uncouth and stuff.
And I needed an excuse to stan.
So have fun with this
I agree with Roy, the first time Mumei posted a SoHyang video in here and was praising it I thought she was being sarcastic.
Her taste has been in shambles ever since she rejected the new vocal legend, Ms Grande.
Ariana Grande is the next Leona Lewis, perhaps - the "Next Mariah" who doesn't have the chops. I think she'll be struggling to reach that mark, though. She doesn't have as good a voice as Leona does. I don't see the comparison between her and Maria, though; they don't really share any commonalities of note.
I don't understand why this is an issue for you; I don't speak Italian, German, Spanish, etc. and I don't really have a problem noticing differences between interpretations of different opera singers - there are so many different ways to emphasize words or phrases, to add effects in expressive ways, to communicate purely with the tone of the voice that it's easy to hear differences in how different artists approach a song while still being true to the notes on the page and without actually having to understand the words. And frankly even many native speakers can't understand the words (I can't understand much English operatic singing!); there's a loss of pronunciation inherent in the operatic style because of its extreme focus on a certain tonal quality over the ability to be understood.
So I'm having trouble believing that you're actually listening to the performances I've been linking, because she shows some extraordinary variety - singing in different scales, different rhythms, different tonal qualities (from breathless to very tight and poperatic), even different weights (her ability to go from breathless and light to thick and heavy is astounding), and she has a great deal of expressive variety. I don't see how you can't see it, it's so apparent. Even if you can't understand the words, I think that the ability to express oneself through vocal effects is nearly universal.
Can you link to what you mean when you talk about a breathy quality? I don't hear it at all in her upper belt. As Leona pointed out, she sometimes takes on a breathy quality for expressive purposes but even that isn't particularly common. She usually has a pretty clear tonal quality, unless she's deliberately trying for something with more airiness.
I think you're mishearing her tone or just aren't used to her voice; you're probably making the same mistake with has as I made with Patti or Callas at one time - mistaking inherent tonal qualities of the voice as indicators of problems with her approach. I say this because a shrill, whiny, and tight tone is often indicative of vocal problems, especially in the upper belt.
And it's actually appropriate that you mention those qualities, because this video identifying strain in KPop is a good overview of what strain sounds like and what you should be listening for - it includes those qualities you mentioned. But SoHyang is explicitly included as an example of someone who does not do those things, and if you contrast her singing with theirs, you should be able to hear a difference in her ability to maintain her tonal qualities. Another video of note is this video comparing her with Ailee. Ailee is actually pretty good up through Eb5, but she becomes tight and uncomfortable around that point; by listening to them side-by-side you should also be able to hear how SoHyang maintains.
Michelle has a light lyric voice, uses very little weight, and gets a great deal of "ping" to her notes. They do sound great, but they aren't bigger. I think a good point of comparison here is to compare Mariah to, er, Mariah. In the beginning of her career, Mariah used a lot more weight in her upper belt than she did at any time after, and on occasion this caused a slight amount of tightness in her upper belt. For instance, on the "So" F5 in Vision of Love at the Grammy's, you should hear this. But by 1993, she sounded like this, and by 1996 she sounded like this. She sounds so much more resonant and rounded, and it is because she dropped the weight as she ascended. She has to do this because she has a lighter voice, and those voices have more trouble carrying their weight up top. Singers with a bigger voice like Whitney (or Aretha, or Patti) can carry up significantly more weight and maintain a musical tone because they have more muscular voices that are capable of supporting it. Of course, even their ability isn't infinite; singers like Jennifer Hudson try to carry too much weight up and overdo it.
So, a full-lyric soprano like SoHyang (or Lara Fabian) might not sound as "ping-y" as Daydream Mariah (or Michelle Williams) because they are actually carrying more weight up and a heavier sound, but they actually have larger voices and more weight in the upper belt. A good point of comparison here is SoHyang covering I'll Be There, in the climactic belt of the song. While she does not have Mariah's flexibility (and doesn't really sing it in the melismatic way that Mariah did, but more as separate belts), she absolutely has a bigger sound. It also - pay attention 3phemeral - shows Regine struggling yet again.
I believe it is probably this quality that you are hearing when you say it sounds like Michelle sounds like she has a more impressive upper belt; I think it's similar to the mistake that some Mariah stans make when thinking that Mariah has a bigger upper belt than Whitney. She doesn't. She has a bigger upper belt relative to her own midbelt, and her placement and weight optimizes her upper belt, but she still has an inherently smaller voice than Whitney does.
I think the curious thing about SoHyang's voice is actually that she does have such size in the upper belt. To my ear, she combines some traits of different vocal fachs in an interesting way. For instance, she has a great deal of comfort singing in forte and fortissimo. This is unusual for two reasons. One, when a lyric voice sings in fortissimo and uses excessive volume, their voice almost seems to warp somewhat. Celine experiences this in her cover of O Holy Night, and only sounds comfortable again as she comes down in volume. Two, lyric voices tend to lack comfort staying in forte for extended periods in the upper tessitura especially; on one of Mariah's most intense performances she actually goes in and out of forte and doesn't stay in it the entire time. Her voice simply wouldn't have the stamina to do that. But if you listen to SoHyang in Fate, she stays in forte for a good minute and a half at a very high tessitura. She's almost a weird mix between a spinto (ease with dramatic passages, comfort in extended forte, voice maintains its quality as it goes up in volume) and a full-lyric (the essential weight and color of her voice). She's probably just a lyric soprano with a larger top than most, but it's still an interesting combination to me.
Clearly not!
I don't think it has anything to do with the audio quality, and I hear the tension in Regine's voice on almost every note, starting with the first C5. She sounds tight and thin. This isn't just an effect of poor audio quality; there are terrible audio quality videos of Whitney in the 1980s or Mariah in the mid-90s where they both sound fantastic in spite of the poor audio quality - and if it were audio quality, Regine's issues wouldn't be so consistent across her singing no matter what the year or quality of the recording.
Regine is frankly exactly what Roy is saying SoHyang is: A high note banshee with no musicianship, no expressive ability, a thin and shrill top, and nothing left after you take away the belts. Regine doesn't sound bad because she's a technically proficient but ultimately soulless singer; she sounds bad because she's a technically deficient and ultimately soulless singer.
She is capable of holding out thin high belts for a very long time, though, and that's always good for getting at least a few fans to think you're amazing (See: Jennifer Hudson).
This is true; there is a homogenizing effect on tone as you go higher (everything becomes very white and bright in color); the mic also makes it more difficult. I still think you can hear a difference in roundness and especially flexibility. SoHyang has much more ease (e.g. those runs on a belted C6), whereas Regine's belting has a thin and brittle quality to it. I also think that SoHyang is able to maintain a musical tone. If you don't know what I mean by this, I think this video is a good explanation. Aside from Whitney, their tone on those belts flow seamlessly into one another (Whitney is notable because it is bigger, but the essential musical quality is similar). But when it gets to Christina, that quality disappears and you hear strain, tenseness, and a total lack of musical tone. While Regine is not that bad, I still hear the absence of that quality when comparing her to SoHyang, or any other singer who can maintain their tone and achieve resonance on those notes.
I'm honestly not sure what you mean by a "forced vibrato." I'm not a singer, so I don't understand these things in an experiential sense; I understand these things second-hand through explanations and examples. I might just be misunderstanding what you mean when you use that phrase. But as I understand it, vibrato is something that occurs naturally as a result of completely open and supported singing. I have two examples I really like of those qualities. First, is Leontyne Price singing Chi bel sogno di Doretta. You should hear the vibrato on almost every vowel sound that lasts for any time of note (and 1:40 - 1:47 is the best). Second, is Barbra Streisand singing If I Loved You. While the vibrato is not quite so thick as Leontyne's, it does occur quite often (0:18, 0:24, 0:27, 0:32, notably at 0:38 after sustaining the word softly for 3 seconds without vibrato, and so forth). She uses intentionally, only doing it on particular words and choosing either to employ vibrato in various ways. It's beautiful if you pay attention to what she's doing, and it's noticeable when she chooses to sustain a note with a straight tone. 'The epitome of cultured vocalism.'
So when you say "forced" vibrato, it seems to me to be the opposite of what vibrato should be - the result of a total absence of forcing. Of course, vibrato can be varied - it can be more or less intense, it can come in faster or slower speeds (and actually different musical eras have required different "speeds" for vibrato, from something like 4.5 "waves" per second to 6.5 in another), and so forth. Whitney is a good example of someone who sings with a very fast vibrato. You can tell that she's not forcing it because of the way that she maintains a musical tone, maintains her support and open sound, and stays completely centered on the pitch. A singer like Florence also has a very fast vibrato, but it doesn't stay centered around the pitch and instead oscillates wildly and has a great deal of tension. Of course, I don't think Florence having issues with her vibrato is because she's trying to force her vibrato; rather, I think that because she has issues with vocal placement, tension, pushing her voice too hard, and so forth, this results in a faulty vibrato.
Personally, I'm of the opinion that while it is true that one's natural vibrato can be manipulated in various ways, forcing vibrato, whether by working the throat, jawing, or shaking one's head, is indicative of problems with one's technique. I don't see how one can employ those methods and maintain a proper musical tone and stay centered on the pitch.
By bf actually found the "I Am A Singer" performance here. He wanted me to combine it with the video since it abruptly stops at her last belt and fades out but I couldn't sync them. It was either remastered/modifed or the original video is speeding up the time a bit, but that audio-only version is a few seconds slower. Maybe you'll be able to hear a few differences
Thanks. Have you heard this version?
I'll see what I can use from theseThough, I sometimes use The Dream Within /FF fan mode off.
You don't use Bambina? Caruso? Intoxicated? Tu Me Manques? Seamisai (Sei Que Me Amavas)? Le Cose Che Vivi? Speranza? Danse? Si Tu M'Aime? Her cover of Pour Que Tu M'aime Encore? J'ai Besoin de Parler? This wonderful medley? Her Ave Maria? Or her cover of Annie Lennox's Why? You and I? Sis, come on. How can you not use such a beautifully emotive and technically flawless vocalist?
Eh. I'm reserving judgement for for tomorrow's performance of Say Something. She put no effort into that.
Soulscribe
Member
Please. If ARTPOP was her first album and The Fame was coming out next week you would be shitting on it too for not being "pure" and "original" Gaga. No time for detached and casual nostalgia.
Supermanisdead
Member
eh, eh (nothing else i can say) and bad romance saved my life.
Roy: Okay, that Shirley performance shits - though that Christina performance is the epitome of my second favorite Sesame Street song.
... When was the last time she put effort in and did well? This isn't meant to be shady (I mean it is, but it isn't meant as such); I'm actually asking.
... When was the last time she put effort in and did well? This isn't meant to be shady (I mean it is, but it isn't meant as such); I'm actually asking.
WhereAreMahDragonz
Banned
I am SCREAMING
Soulscribe
Member
She hasn't given any effort since the beginning of the Bionic era.
Leona Lewis
Banned
Preach siS
She should've released (as an EP or something) the tracks that ended up on the Glassheart sessions cutting room floor. Because some of those tracks (the ones I've unearthed from the dark Chinese recesses of the Internet, anyway) are the bomb-diggity-dawg smash hits of the forever.
Not that she'd recognize a hit if one hit her in the face tho
Soulscribe
Member
I love that you shade Leona more than anyone else here. lol
You Know Nothing
Member
Is it really shade when he's just being honest?
Leona has terrible taste when it comes to picking potential smashes.
Let me continue to use One More Sleep and perch for ha Christmas alberm tho.
Leona has terrible taste when it comes to picking potential smashes.
Let me continue to use One More Sleep and perch for ha Christmas alberm tho.
WhereAreMahDragonz
Banned
And we gonna let it burn, burn, burn, burn...
Soulscribe
Member
Don't worry, Mumei, I'm going to respond to the rest of your post
. I just wanted to respond to this particular part while the thought was still fresh in my mind:
I mentioned SoHyang's native language because it has something to do with one of my major complaints of her singing (despite the utter blandness). Namely, when it comes to her English covers, she's almost ALWAYS slightly behind the melody.
Her cover of My Heart Will Go On that I linked to earlier is a perfect example of this. She's behind for almost the entire song, and it becomes really noticeable around the second chorus, where she starts adding flourishes and nearly runs out of air and completely falls off the melody in several spots. For someone who I'm supposed to consider on-par with the vocal trinity, it's incredibly amateurish, and yet it happens in almost EVERY English cover I've heard by her. It's a consistent problem she has.
However, I didn't want to judge her too harshly for that, if it may have more to do with her grasp of English not being that strong. I wouldn't really know, though - maybe she has the same timing issues when she's singing in Korean. I don't know the structure of the language to tell.
That's why I brought that up.
I promise!
I mentioned SoHyang's native language because it has something to do with one of my major complaints of her singing (despite the utter blandness). Namely, when it comes to her English covers, she's almost ALWAYS slightly behind the melody.
Her cover of My Heart Will Go On that I linked to earlier is a perfect example of this. She's behind for almost the entire song, and it becomes really noticeable around the second chorus, where she starts adding flourishes and nearly runs out of air and completely falls off the melody in several spots. For someone who I'm supposed to consider on-par with the vocal trinity, it's incredibly amateurish, and yet it happens in almost EVERY English cover I've heard by her. It's a consistent problem she has.
However, I didn't want to judge her too harshly for that, if it may have more to do with her grasp of English not being that strong. I wouldn't really know, though - maybe she has the same timing issues when she's singing in Korean. I don't know the structure of the language to tell.
That's why I brought that up.
You Know Nothing
Member
We found a smash hit in a hopeless place...
WhereAreMahDragonz
Banned
I'm still reading your post, Mumei.
Just had to pause to let everyone know that I've been SCREAMING at my desk for the last 5 minutes at the side-by-side comparison of all the girls going for the "YAY-e-YAY-e-YAY-e-YAYYYY" part of "I'll Be There"...
Leona Lewis especially is killing me with her hands.
Just had to pause to let everyone know that I've been SCREAMING at my desk for the last 5 minutes at the side-by-side comparison of all the girls going for the "YAY-e-YAY-e-YAY-e-YAYYYY" part of "I'll Be There"...
Leona Lewis especially is killing me with her hands.
WhereAreMahDragonz
Banned
The gif potential.................................................
You Know Nothing
Member
'Cause I love love, 'cause I love love
You better than, you better than
My darkest sin
Russian hookers
And cheap gin
I think that I could be fine
If I could be Mary Jane Holland tonight
I think we'd have a good time
If you'd meet me and Mary Jane in Holland tonight
A religious experience.
Mary Jane Holland is the best song on ARTPOP. Bye at the rest.
Madeon, ha power.
You better than, you better than
My darkest sin
Russian hookers
And cheap gin
I think that I could be fine
If I could be Mary Jane Holland tonight
I think we'd have a good time
If you'd meet me and Mary Jane in Holland tonight
A religious experience.
Mary Jane Holland is the best song on ARTPOP. Bye at the rest.
Madeon, ha power.
You Know Nothing
Member
I love the match strike at the end of Mary Jane Holland and the puff.
Queen tbh.
Queen tbh.
WhereAreMahDragonz
Banned
This wait for the Catching Fire soundtrack is PAINFUL
You Know Nothing
Member
I want Mirror to leak so badly.
<+)O Robido O(+>
Member
You Know Nothing
Member
Lord at my post count.
Death @ Kyon having 666 tho.
Death @ Kyon having 666 tho.
Supermanisdead
Member
poor brave dmj
WhereAreMahDragonz
Banned
What kind of flawless graphic novel taste
You better stan Queen Brian, sis
poor brave dmj
I went to check his post history to see what got him banned and I don't think I've ever laughed so hard in all my time in neogaf
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