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PopGAF |OT7.5| ReMix - Stanning Sarah Palin since November 2013

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V

Vazduh

Member
epM5uTI.jpg


Pretty much this.
 
S

Soulscribe

Member
Kyon said:
Changing the name wouldn't make the album any less forgettable

I highly doubt the name affected the score as much as you think it does
Click to expand...

Sis have you read these reviews?

Entertainment Weekly said:
As pop, the album is a well-executed and entertaining tour of Gaga's tried-and-true tricks. But as art, it falls short when it comes to one basic function: making an impression.
Click to expand...

All Music Guide said:
The concept is artful and logical, yet ARTPOP never insinuates or settles in the subconscious; it always assaults, determined to make an impression even when all it has to say is that it doesn't have much to say.
Click to expand...

Spin said:
Even at their worst, they only prove that the art is sometimes unworthy of the artist.
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MusicOMH said:
Throughout ARTPOP signifier upon signifier is piled on top of sometimes brilliant melodies, creating enough room for breathless readings of Gaga’s ‘art’.
Click to expand...

TinyMixTapes said:
So sit back, and disengage your brain, because Gaga has this “art” shit down to, well, a fine art.
Click to expand...

Reviewers (most of them at least) seem to be adding an extra layer of criticism to the album because the title insinuates that there should be more to see, or more to interpret, but at the end of the day the statement here is that pop music as we KNOW it to be, is actually very much an art form. A lot of critics aren't really getting that. "As a pop album it's good but as "art" not so much, so 6/10." Whereas with any other pop album the frame of mind is "as a pop album it's good, so 7/10" even though they wouldn't say the latter's music is better than the former. Contrarily, I would venture a guess to say that a lot of these reviewers would say that ARTPOP's music, taking it for what it is, is some of her all-time best. Except that fact isn't presenting itself through these review scores.

Not that Gaga didn't bring this upon herself obviously, because she did. When you present yourself in a highly contextual way you invite a highly contextual set of criticism, and that's exactly how art works. So I think with these reviewers saying that as "art" the album fails... that's a paradox to me because they're judging the album AS art because she evidently suggested it, not realizing that in judging it as art, the product itself becomes interpreted as an art piece. And that, in effect, makes it art. lol

It's the catch-22 of the year.
 
W

WhereAreMahDragonz

Banned
Just had a conversation with my roommate:

Me: "Gaga's album is great."
Roomate: "Why do you even like her she's so fucking bad."
Me: "....."
Roomate: "She has no talent!"
Me: "You like Eminem....."
Roomate: "Yeah Eminem is actually talented, Gaga isn't. Her voice isn't real and it's horrible."


iFOBR2FDtzLnn.gif

iFOBR2FDtzLnn.gif

iFOBR2FDtzLnn.gif
 
T

twobear

sputum-flecked apoplexy
Soulscribe said:
Reviewers (most of them at least) seem to be adding an extra layer of criticism to the album because the title insinuates that there should be more to see, or more to interpret, but at the end of the day the statement here is that pop music as we KNOW it to be, is actually very much an art form. A lot of critics aren't really getting that. "As a pop album it's good but as "art" not so much, so 6/10." Whereas with any other pop album the frame of mind is "as a pop album it's good, so 7/10" even though they wouldn't say the latter's music is better than the former. Contrarily, I would venture a guess to say that a lot of these reviewers would say that ARTPOP's music, taking it for what it is, is some of her all-time best. Except that fact isn't presenting itself through these review scores.

Not that Gaga didn't bring this upon herself obviously, because she did. When you present yourself in a highly contextual way you invite a highly contextual set of criticism, and that's exactly how art works. So I think with these reviewers saying that as "art" the album fails... that's a paradox to me because they're judging the album AS art because she evidently suggested it, not realizing that in judging it as art, the product itself becomes interpreted as an art piece. And that, in effect, makes it art. lol

It's the catch-22 of the year.
Click to expand...

Sis you truncated the MusicOMH quote right before the punchline:

Throughout ARTPOP signifier upon signifier is piled on top of sometimes brilliant melodies, creating enough room for breathless readings of Gaga’s ‘art’ certainly, but failing on the more basic level as engaging pop music.
Click to expand...

Pretty much all of the reviews I've seen conclude that the music itself is actually just not all that great.

It's a decent, if flawed, pop album, its good bits good enough to keep her filling stadiums as big as the gulf between her ideas and her music.
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http://www.theguardian.com/music/2013/nov/07/lady-gaga-artpop-review

Musically, it's pretty much the standard modern electro fare familiar from dozens of contemporaries, from Kylie to Britney. The dubstep riffs are more tortured in places, but when David Guetta and will.i.am are involved in a track's production--as with the bullishly shallow "Fashion!"--you're not straying from the mainstream.
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http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-e...ts-hard-not-to-feel-underwhelmed-8926676.html

That refusal to experiment as wildly as she once did reads as fear, and a pop star who’s afraid ends up sounding like the once-weird Lady Gaga does on ARTPOP: boring and normal.
Click to expand...

http://consequenceofsound.net/2013/11/album-review-lady-gaga-artpop/

If you strip away all the 'art was pop culture in me' from ARTPOP, and listen to it just as a collection of songs, it's very difficult to argue that it's a much better collection of pop music than PRISM. And that's tea. The fact that Gaga acts as though she's simply working on a different level to everyone creating pop music (and, to be fair, she used to), merely amplifies that fact. But I don't think anyone's marking it down for that reason.

===

Wherearemahdragonz said:
I will do that later, for sure.

It should also be noted that she literally thinks Eminem is the hottest man ever.

This is not a drill. This is a real Pop emergency.
Click to expand...

iNQ4SsG3hi3v7.png
 
Y

You Know Nothing

Member
She'd probably be more receptive of Gaga if Gaga just sat on her ass and strummed a guitar during her performances. I pity people who can't enjoy a balls to the wall pop act.

And that's the sad ass tea.

ibanifdRBZDZI.png
 
<+)O Robido O(+>

<+)O Robido O(+>

Member
Wherearemahdragonz said:
Just had a conversation with my roommate:

Me: "Gaga's album is great."
Roomate: "Why do you even like her she's so fucking bad."
Me: "....."
Roomate: "She has no talent!"
Me: "You like Eminem....."
Roomate: "Yeah Eminem is actually talented, Gaga isn't. Her voice isn't real and it's horrible."
Click to expand...

If my only choices were Eminem or Lady Gaga, I'd chose to be deaf.
 
S

Soulscribe

Member
godelsmetric said:
Sis you truncated the MusicOMH quote right before the punchline:



Pretty much all of the reviews I've seen conclude that the music itself is actually just not all that great.



http://www.theguardian.com/music/2013/nov/07/lady-gaga-artpop-review



http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-e...ts-hard-not-to-feel-underwhelmed-8926676.html



http://consequenceofsound.net/2013/11/album-review-lady-gaga-artpop/

If you strip away all the 'art was pop culture in me' from ARTPOP, and listen to it just as a collection of songs, it's very difficult to argue that it's a much better collection of pop music than PRISM. And that's tea. The fact that Gaga acts as though she's simply working on a different level to everyone creating pop music (and, to be fair, she used to), merely amplifies that fact. But I don't think anyone's marking it down for that reason.

===



iNQ4SsG3hi3v7.png
Click to expand...

Except those same reviewers have a similar criticism of Prism. Basically, their problem with the music stems from their problem with the genre. But yes a handful of reviewers said they didn't like the music. They're the same people that are critical of most contemporary pop albums for the exact same reasons.

However there a lot of reviews I'm reading that literally praise a lot of these songs for being stellar. A couple of them even admitted that more than 10 of the 15 songs are some of her best. Yet the album's grade was still relatively low because they couldn't discern what was so "art" about it. It's like all those songs that they liked didn't matter so much because the "art" moniker was so distracting... like they needed to pay attention to any artistic inclinations over just judging the songs for what they are.

I'm not that hung up on review scores because I'm seeing where this consensus is deriving from, but it's only annoying to see ARTPOP get drastically lower scores than its predecessors because reviewers were underwhelmed by whatever expectation they had from the title of the album, or whatever gravitas Lady Gaga surrounded herself with. They ALL mention how Lady Gaga's posturing herself as an "artiste," and it's mentioned in more of a negative light in order to hinder their impression of the album itself. Basically, it sucks for her. lol
 
Y

Yado

Member
I get being a teenager and identfying with Eminem's "edgy" schtick, but I could never take an adult Eminem fan seriously. How late do you have to be to be a fan of the juvenile tripe he emits?

ibqaXoiED5evLa.gif
 
W

Wafflecakes

Member
HDD says 100k+ sales from pre-orders alone.

As much as I would love the kii's on Gaga failing to reach 300k..... I think she will be closer to 400k.
 
Y

You Know Nothing

Member
Yeah, I found Real Slim Shady and its lampooning of the Spice Girls pretty fun.

But I was also ten at the time.

And I didn't know Eminenema wanted to break some tables over my back.

ibqaXoiED5evLa.gif
 
T

twobear

sputum-flecked apoplexy
Soulscribe said:
Except those same reviewers have a similar criticism of Prism.
Click to expand...

Yes, and Prism has similarly middling-decent review scores, too. Neither of them are exactly astonishing works of pop music.

Soulscribe said:
They're the same people that are critical of most contemporary pop albums for the exact same reasons.
Click to expand...

What a convenient and poor excuse. 'All the people who don't like this obviously great album just hate pop music!'. Except that MusicOMH doesn't say 'all pop music is shite so this is good by those standards', it says that Gaga fails by the standards of pop music.

There are some reviews, like TinyMixTape's, that do seem to bash Gaga for the pretence while only mentioning the music as a side effect. You'll get those, and they're annoying. But in general, the reviews state that the music simply isn't all that great (in varying ways) and that's why they're giving it decent to good reviews instead of the 9s and 10s that the Monsters believe it (obviously) deserves.

This is the problem, I think, with Gaga. For all the costumes and the pronouncements and the essays about her intent, inspiration, and genius, that we have to read about from her fans, at the end of the day the last time she truly sounded musically like a cut above her contemporaries was back in 2009, and I think it's becoming noticeable.

Could you, for a moment, imagine a pop artist that combines big ideas with music to match? If only one of those existed.
 
K

Koodo

Banned
Mumei said:
Thanks for reminding me that I need to listen to her albums. Excelforward was explaining the whole storyline behind each of the albums, and it sounded very interesting / cohesive... but I never actually around to doing it.
Click to expand...
I remember you stanning for Q.U.E.E.N. in the plug room. Listen to ha good work.
 
T

Trigger

Member
Mumei said:
Thanks for reminding me that I need to listen to her albums. Excelforward was explaining the whole storyline behind each of the albums, and it sounded very interesting / cohesive... but I never actually around to doing it.
Click to expand...

Power up, Mumei and let her in.
 
Y

You Know Nothing

Member
I'm sorry but 1D is not in the same league as Britney. She may have started out as teen pop star, but she has managed to shed that and maintain her career by delving into different genres and gathering new fans in the process.

1D are catering to teen girls
and gays
who write erotic fanfiction about them on Twitter, and once they lose them, they're done.

See NSYNC and BSB and how Knee has long outlasted them.

iITWf6KAF6vU4.gif
 
S

Soulscribe

Member
godelsmetric said:
Yes, and Prism has similarly middling-decent review scores, too. Neither of them are exactly astonishing works of pop music.



What a convenient and poor excuse. 'All the people who don't like this obviously great album just hate pop music!'. Except that MusicOMH doesn't say 'all pop music is shite so this is good by those standards', it says that Gaga fails by the standards of pop music.

There are some reviews, like TinyMixTape's, that do seem to bash Gaga for the pretence while only mentioning the music as a side effect. You'll get those, and they're annoying. But in general, the reviews state that the music simply isn't all that great (in varying ways) and that's why they're giving it decent to good reviews instead of the 9s and 10s that the Monsters believe it (obviously) deserves.

This is the problem, I think, with Gaga. For all the costumes and the pronouncements and the essays about her intent, inspiration, and genius, that we have to read about from her fans, at the end of the day the last time she truly sounded musically like a cut above her contemporaries was back in 2009, and I think it's becoming noticeable.

Could you, for a moment, imagine a pop artist that combines big ideas with music to match? If only one of those existed.
Click to expand...

Both Janelle and Gaga are fully realized conceptual artists and you're deluding yourself in thinking that Gaga isn't as fleshed out as Janelle. Their art is just different. Janelle's work is incredibly intellectualized; it's seeping with commentary on class and politics and because of that her big ideas translate to well-spoken execution. That's exactly her intent. Her ideas wouldn't translate into esoteric structures because, well, that's not her thing.

Gaga is Warholian. It's ideas pertaining to pop culture being interpreted through a very simplified execution. Her work isn't intellectualized like Janelle. because it's not supposed to be. Her talking about her art in an intellectualized way just means that she's well-spoken; it doesn't mean that her art matches her vocabulary. You'd be lucky to find cubist, pop art or surrealist artists who don't talk eloquently about their work.

You guys gave me shit for saying that some people are misunderstanding Gaga's intent, assuming that I was saying that in a smug way, but I wasn't. I do honestly think that people misunderstand her intent because they assume that because she's well spoken about herself, that her execution must not be esoteric. Except that's always been her style. I guess this is all subjective anyway... I only get defense about it because I've seen this kind of criticism thrown toward things like pop art quite a bit.


I'm totally with you on the fact that her music isn't pushing any barriers, nor is it elevating the genre in any real way. But I also didn't assume that it was going to, like all these reviewers did. I only assumed that this album would apply well to Gaga's own manifesto and would be a good look into her own world and I think it does the trick about 95% of the time. I think it's a great, well-rounded 4th piece to her catalogue and as someone that's invested in her world and output, that's what matters to me.
 
W

Wafflecakes

Member
Mary Jane Holland said:
I'm sorry but 1D is not in the same league as Britney. She may have started out as teen pop star, but she has managed to shed that and maintain her career by delving into different genres and gathering new fans in the process.

1D are catering to teen girls
and gays
who write erotic fanfiction about them on Twitter, and once they lose them, they're done.

See NSYNC and BSB and how Knee has long outlasted them.

iITWf6KAF6vU4.gif
Click to expand...

Oh please. The only thing Brit has managed to shed is her fanbase.

She will probably fail to hit 200k first week with this album and limp to gold.
 
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