vonStirlitz
Unconfirmed Member
Good point. The visuals absolutely destroyed Nixon when he stood against Kennedy, despite being the better orator and getting much stronger arguments across.
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Presidential Debate #2 |Washington University| Grab me right in the Ken Bone
- Thread starter Paskil
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Good point. The visuals absolutely destroyed Nixon when he stood against Kennedy, despite being the better orator and getting much stronger arguments across.
Barack Lesnar
Banned
Normally I'd agree with the bolded but this election is different...there's never been a more watched and discussed election in our history, esp in this social media era, so winning a debate a month before can for sure a difference. Speaking of which...have the overnights come in yet? I have a feeling the rating will be epic. Sunday night time slot and so much hype going into it.
Alex_Mexico
Member
Trust you? Why should I? He lost, end of story. He did marginally better than the first but he still lost. Badly.
Most people in America vote Party and not Politician.
They aren't supporting Trump because they love sexual assault and tax dodging and open racism (some may be, actually) they're supporting Trump because he's the Republican Nominee.
Pretty much. He absolutely won with the Breitbart bubble, as he hit all the alt-right masturbatory conspiracy arguments in their book. They finally told off the Clinton's and in front on millions of people on a world stadge no less! The people Know! Now they can win!
Unfortunately, reality doesn't work that way. The bubble and reality distortion field caused great harm the longer you are in it.
benjipwns
Banned
She did mention that but it was during a series of back and forth crosstalk so she didn't really say more than "Republicans are turning against you..." and didn't bring it back up.
IIRC the actual data from the polling was correct, the big problem was the assumption that undecideds would break towards the status quo.
As I understand it, that assumption isn't really built in to polling metrics for elections.
We'll have numbers later today I think. (or tomorrow?)
I'd bet we're down from the first debate.
I said this in the community thread. And I still think those who say trump won should explain how this debate helped him with anyone outside his base.
Yes. On the scale that most voters are judging on that's a lot of what matters. You don't have to like it. I don't like it. But that is the current reality. What the electorate says is all that matters no matter how ridiculous their standards are.
SolidSnakex
Member
It's an example of the lowered expectations that exist for him. Yes, apparently people are willing to lower expectations for what's expected of a presidential nominee.
wumster3000
Member
Think about if you haven't eaten anything for two weeks. When you finally get a meal, and it's porage, you would think it's a steak dinner too. Anything would satisfy your hunger.
The alt right are exactly the sort of people I'd expect to defend rapists and other sexual predators. It's their ethos.
EstoyBlackWaldo
Member
I think I had 3 fingers left of my whisky at that point. Was sitting on the edge of my bed just constantly saying "what the hell." "WHAT THE HELL.".
Its a moot point he was trying to put across -- like you said, he was trying to make it come off as she's been president for 30 years. I would not doubt it if some of those yokels out there believed you can hold the presidency for more than two terms.
This should have registered with everyone in that audience, that one senator can not change or alter a law in any manner. Else there would be absolutely no need for Congress or a Presidency, but nope, he was just telling it like it is.
Trump still running makes secondterm Bush look sane.
And it wasn't sane.
At all.
Hell, there was a time when Palin sunk the ship with incompetence.
AnotherDayAnotherDollar
Banned
Things like what? Crooked Hillary? One of the worst candidates in history? A bonafide liar? A two faced snake who panders to different demographics to tell them what they wanna hear just for votes? A corrupt individual? For anti gay marriage and then for equality? Trying to pander to hispanic folks with the "Mi abuela" bullshit? Trying to pander to black folks after calling them superpredators?
I have said all that and then some on this board. I don't think your persecution complex holds any water.
As an independent, but who already decided who I'm voting for this election, I think they both did horrible, but with enough talking points to cater to their audience. No one clearly won. Each side will play their narrative and that'll be that.
funkystudent
Member
Hillary needs to stop pimping HillaryclintonDOTcom when Trump is factually wrong and actually point out his lies to his face there and then.
Countering Trumps bullshit with that just doesn't work.
Only real flaw in her presentation other then a few stumbles and bad answers.
Then again since Trumps entire debate strategy is to say "I never did that" and "that isn't true" at stuff he has obviously done and facts that are obviously true is so dumbfounding that maybe Hillary doesn't want to spend half the debate correcting him
Countering Trumps bullshit with that just doesn't work.
Only real flaw in her presentation other then a few stumbles and bad answers.
Then again since Trumps entire debate strategy is to say "I never did that" and "that isn't true" at stuff he has obviously done and facts that are obviously true is so dumbfounding that maybe Hillary doesn't want to spend half the debate correcting him
He didn't literally grab anyone without consent on stage so many people are chalking it up as a win for the GOP nominee.
GoldenEye 007
Member
He lies something like over 70% of the time. It would be impossible to actually address him point by point.
Yeah, that seems true to me too. I think he came across very, very creepy, and that's worse than any actual debate points here for the general audience.
Manmademan
Member
that performance would have been straight up career ending for any actual politician.
the only reason anyone is tagging it as "better" is because Trump conducted what is unanimously considered the worst debate performance known to man last time.
How this debate actually goes depends on how journalists and reports present it... but I don't think they'll be too kind to Trump.
Trump Doubles Down on Everything
Then who is?
Yourgov
Post-debate poll: Clinton 47%, Trump 42%
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/polls-hillary-clinton-won-debate_us_57ed0323e4b0c2407cdbe9c2
CNN
57% said Clinton did the best job in the face-off at Washington University in St. Louis, while just 34% thought Trump did.
http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/10/politics/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-debate-cnn-poll/
Where's your proof?
EstoyBlackWaldo
Member
I agree 100%
She should still do it, it just comes off as some propaganda type speech from her. Just drop facts instead of telling people to go read facts. Assume most of these people are lazy and instead of reading off her sight they'll eventually find themselves distracted with Facebook. She honestly would fare better saying it herself.
LegendofJoe
Member
Lmao at Hillary pandering for black votes. If you knew anything about her history you'd know that's completely false.
Harry Enten mentioned at this point on the 538 podcast that undecideds would have to break 80/20 for Trump for him to win.
benjipwns
Banned
Now, now, we should never, ever ignore McCain's "OH MY GOD WE HAVE TO CANCEL THE DEBATES, EVERYBODY BACK TO WASHINGTON TO FIX THIS NOWWWWWWWWWWW" and then he didn't do shit in any of the meetings then skipped town and a bunch of votes and Obama played it cool and was the only one to say anything intelligent and helpful to where Bush gave him praise for his help with getting Democrats' support.
kavanf1
Member
Yeah, it just struck me as something she could have made more of to make any wavering supporters change their minds. Instead I think he said enough to retain those wavering supporters - despite of course what he said being completely and utterly shite (as usual).
Garrett Hawke
Member
if hillary had properly waded in to the shit slinging it somehow would've reflected poorly on her, and by not doing it she seemingly let him off the hook.
just another example of how she is held to different standards when there are people trying to claim he "won" the debate because... he made people in the audience laugh?
just another example of how she is held to different standards when there are people trying to claim he "won" the debate because... he made people in the audience laugh?
Manmademan
Member
you can't. Trump is doing the equivalent of a gish gallop- throwing out so much bullshit so quickly that it's simply impossible to "fact check" it all in the minute or two response time you have.
HC.com is easy enough to access for anyone who ACTUALLY cares if the statement is factual or not. For everyone else they're looking at behavior, tone, body language, etc etc and words don't matter. Think about how many people thought Pence won the VP debate, despite getting destroyed on actual content.
Darryl M R
Member
Can someone screen grab shawty with the bedazzled full zip-up hoodie that was at Trump's stunt?
Honestly, she should just say "check ANY fact-checker website. Politico, Politfact, MSNBC, C-Span... practically all of them".
Granted, Trump fans would check facebook and twitter, but still...
Ya it's important to remember that McCain picking Palin was actually seen as something that would save his sinking ship (he wasn't doing too great even before the VP pick) rather than the one mistake that cost him the election.
Palin didn't even do too poorly in the VP debate tbh.
They difference between polling a general election and a referendum is being able to ask how people voted last time and you knowing what the national vote was to give you a baseline. For a referendum you haven't got that point of comparison.
EstoyBlackWaldo
Member
I think I need to wash my brain, I actually read that word in his voice.
"I have a tremendous team, doing tremendous things." uggggh
NHarmonic.
Member
Pretty much. The guy isn't even aware of what a president (or a senator) can do with his charge, i mean how many more reasons do americans want to finally understand the guy is not qualified to be POTUS?
But lol at the "he won" comments. Nurturing a really damn stupid narrative about direct ad hominem attacks and 0 projects to improve america.
Agree 100%. But the reality of these "debates" are that they're not a good format to do that. Debates, as we still have them, assume intellectual honesty and integrity. Thst facts are facts.
That boat is in interstellar space at this point.
2 minutes isn't enough time to defuse years of bullshit.
Samurai G0SU
Member
The bar is so low for trump that people think he won with that performance. Maybe on a reality tv for drama, sure. But for someone to act like that as my commander in chief for the united states? Helllllll noooooooo.
Wtf is wrong with people? He avoided answering questions all night. Didnt even talk about the syrian humanitarian issue and instead talked about russia/syria and their ability to kill isis...
Wtf is wrong with people? He avoided answering questions all night. Didnt even talk about the syrian humanitarian issue and instead talked about russia/syria and their ability to kill isis...
Laughably, Breitbart also has its own """"Fact-checking"""" section right now.
soundscream
Member
The mind that would say "thats a good idea for a thread", lines up with most of Trumps base.
I agree that the website thing looks meek and doesn't really speak to anyone outside of people already bought in but what can she do? She already spends a lot of time on Trump's bullshit. The problem is that she would just look like Trump, like when she just says "no you" since it's much harder to actually refute than it is to throw out empty lines.
benjipwns
Banned
That's Paula Jones...
Really. "Your own party has revoked their endorsements. Republican senators left and right pulling support. If you can't unify your own party, what makes you think you can unify America?"
Washington Post: Trump wanted to put Bill Clinton’s accusers in his family box. Debate officials said no.
The Jerry Springer contestant of Presidential candidates.
Donald Trump’s campaign sought to intimidate Hillary Clinton and embarrass her husband by seating women who have accused former president Bill Clinton of sexual abuse in the Trump family’s box at the presidential debate here Sunday night, according to four people involved in the discussions.
The campaign’s plan, which was closely held and unknown to several of Trump’s top aides, was thwarted just minutes before it could be executed when officials with the Commission on Presidential Debates intervened. The commission officials warned that, if the Trump campaign tried to seat the accusers in the elevated family box, security officers would remove the women, according to the people involved, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because the discussions were confidential.
The gambit to give Bill Clinton’s accusers prime seats was devised by Trump campaign chief executive Stephen K. Bannon and Jared Kushner, the candidate’s son-in-law, and approved personally by Trump.
The campaign’s plan, which was closely held and unknown to several of Trump’s top aides, was thwarted just minutes before it could be executed when officials with the Commission on Presidential Debates intervened. The commission officials warned that, if the Trump campaign tried to seat the accusers in the elevated family box, security officers would remove the women, according to the people involved, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because the discussions were confidential.
The gambit to give Bill Clinton’s accusers prime seats was devised by Trump campaign chief executive Stephen K. Bannon and Jared Kushner, the candidate’s son-in-law, and approved personally by Trump.
The Jerry Springer contestant of Presidential candidates.
kavanf1
Member
"Islands in the stream, that is what we are"
Lol
It's only cool when Trump does it huh? The man has been insulting people all his life and you want to sit here now and act all offended when he gets it thrown back at him? Please.
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