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Presidential Debate #2 |Washington University| Grab me right in the Ken Bone
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lmao
Brawly Likes to Brawl
Member
If she fact checked Trump every time he lied she never would've been able to answer any questions. That was the thing with this debate, since this was a panel of regular people she had to make the feel like they were being talked to.
benjipwns
Banned
Yeah, she gave him a real energy (and polling) boost with conservatives who never had trusted him. IIRC, her convention speech got higher ratings than his.
Seriously... this is a man bragging about grabbing women's genitalia whenever he pleases. Dude deserves vitriol.
This is how I feel. It's the reason I have a tough time thinking Hillary won. She gave one or two bad answers, a couple meandering ones, was often good and sometimes great. Trump got in some hits, but in terms of eloquence, policy, body language, or pretty much any metric you can judge a debate by, he was terrible.
The problem is that those moments where she gave bad answers were big ones, were tied into Trump's more impactful hits, and into the moderators' more difficult questions. It was an unfortunate stretch of time that contributed to the tone of the debate. Trump did a lot to turn the debate into toxic television, and Hillary didn't effectively transcend it. So Trump's success wasn't in raising himself up, but perhaps in helping dampen the electorate's enthusiasm for this election even more.
When his entire candidacy feels like an attack on all positive values, norms, the political process, etc., everything looking slightly shittier seems more to his benefit. America losing is his thing.
Anyway, I don't know what net impact last night will have on the polls. My main takeaway is that it was a bad night for our republic.
EatinOlives
Member
I noticed pretty obviously that he went full-on sexist with her. Didn't refer to her by name, constantly called her she and her, pointing at her but never having eye contact as he told his lies about her. It was pretty disgusting.
Future PhaZe
Member
He was too atrocious in the first half hour to win. But he did have a nice bounce back in terms of going on the attack. That'll play to his base and a small portion of undecideds who aren't Hillary fans.
Damage is already done to some degree. A lot of early voting going on as we speak and I don't know what Trump can do in this last month to expand the base. He got knocked down in the boxing ring and there's one round to go. He managed to actually stand up from the knock down after this debate but he can't win without a knockout. Clinton has been to conservative to provide any openings.
It's done.
Damage is already done to some degree. A lot of early voting going on as we speak and I don't know what Trump can do in this last month to expand the base. He got knocked down in the boxing ring and there's one round to go. He managed to actually stand up from the knock down after this debate but he can't win without a knockout. Clinton has been to conservative to provide any openings.
It's done.
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
Yes, talking about Sanders making "a deal with the devil." By working with Hillary
wumster3000
Member
Don't fall for the bait. Move on from them. They are having a rough time knowing that while Hillary wasn't her best, Trump's best still is not better. It's call denial.
Brawly Likes to Brawl
Member
And then two days later he gathered a group of a women to blame a wife for the sins of her husband, and attempted to start an altercation by trying to have them sit near Hillary's family.
The Living Tribunal
Member
This reads like a Twitch copypasta.
Veritigo_X
Member
Trump basically sounded like he was in the Republican Primary again, which is not where you want to be 30 days from the election. Breitbart folks and neo nazis on twitter had the best night of their lives because of it. Trump was literally repeating their dumb memes. It's easy to see why his hardcore supporters think he won, they remembered why they liked him to begin with. Thankfully, people like them don't represent anywhere near the majority of voters.
Trump has been having a terrible week of news and needed a huge performance to turn it around. He didn't.
Trump has been having a terrible week of news and needed a huge performance to turn it around. He didn't.
Yeah, it does appear to be mainly the neo-nazi types that feel that he won the debate
Ok Mr. high ground Trump supporter.
Trump did nothing to increase his base. Hillary proved she had a cool temperament, the thing Trump supporters praised Pence for at the last debate. She did not interrupt even once.
Hillary came with the facts and Trump was all insults and bluster. You can say he won if you want since he hits all of your notes, but the important thing, the long game, he lost.
Tal Shiar Agent
Banned
Trump said he pays "tremendous" amount of taxes. One of the definitions of tremendous is "dreadful or awful", paying $0 is pretty awful.
Skiptastic
Member
I agree that pimping the website is annoying and it would be great to tell him how he lied right then and there, but she doesn't have the video of him saying the thing she is calling him out on handy so it would become an on stage "he said he didn't lie, she said he did".
Easier to tell people "go to our website and see it in action, he's a goddamn liar and we can prove it."
This is how I feel. It's the reason I have a tough time thinking Hillary won. She gave one or two bad answers, a couple meandering ones, was often good and sometimes great. Trump got in some hits, but in terms of eloquence, policy, body language, or pretty much any metric you can judge a debate by, he was terrible.
The problem is that those moments where she gave bad answers were big ones, were tied into Trump's more impactful hits, and into the moderators' more difficult questions. It was an unfortunate stretch of time that contributed to the tone of the debate. Trump did a lot to turn the debate into toxic television, and Hillary didn't effectively transcend it. So Trump's success wasn't in raising himself up, but perhaps in helping dampen the electorate's enthusiasm for this election even more.
When his entire candidacy feels like an attack on all positive values, norms, the political process, etc., everything looking slightly shittier seems more to his benefit. America losing is his thing.
Anyway, I don't know what net impact last night will have on the polls. My main takeaway is that it was a bad night for our republic.
Trump loses on the grounds he still hasn't offered a single policy.
America is only losing because one person is playing a reality tv show and the other is trying to talk politics. The reality tv show is playing in the media.
Isn't trump losing where it counts?
DerangedHermit
Member
To me, it was clear that Hillary( & Dems) plan was to get him to talk about Russia and create even more strife between and Pence (if that's possible).
I don't think it's random that it was the week before that the US government revealed that Russia was behind the hacks and leaks. This all culminated in the moment one of the mods asked Trump about Pence's position and he answered like that. And if Pence actually leaves, whelp...
Hillary was never going to talk about the shit that came out the days before or get into a slugfest with a baby like Trump cause one misstep or a careless zinger would turn the spotlight onto her no matter what she did or say.
She's going to let him burn alone and, as someone said in another thread, not fan the flames.
I don't think it's random that it was the week before that the US government revealed that Russia was behind the hacks and leaks. This all culminated in the moment one of the mods asked Trump about Pence's position and he answered like that. And if Pence actually leaves, whelp...
Hillary was never going to talk about the shit that came out the days before or get into a slugfest with a baby like Trump cause one misstep or a careless zinger would turn the spotlight onto her no matter what she did or say.
She's going to let him burn alone and, as someone said in another thread, not fan the flames.
She just needs a phone with a projector on it that she can use next debate to play the video back right after his answer.
Alex_Mexico
Member
In all fairness she did interrupt. Once. And she apologized for interrupting that one time. But yeah. It must've been 40 Trump interruptions vs 1 of hers.
He 100% acted like he was at one of his rallies, not a debate. Same incoherent talking points and half-baked conspiracies, and avalanches of lies.
But then, he said it in the debate too, and his surrogates all say it as well, they genuinely think his rallies mean most of the country supports him.
But then, he said it in the debate too, and his surrogates all say it as well, they genuinely think his rallies mean most of the country supports him.
Risible
Member
Dan Rather killing it after each debate:
"As Donald Trump paced menacingly last night on stage, as he threatened Hillary Clinton with imprisonment even though her actions have already been subjected to the arm of justice, as he batted away concerns over the leaked audio of him boasting of sexual assault as mere "locker room talk", the cumulative image for millions of votes, I suspect, is that this is a man who, at a fundamental level, does not understand what it means to be an American. And thus, by logical extension, he has no business being president.
Teddy Roosevelt famously stated: "No man is above the law and no man is below it, nor do we ask any mans permission when we ask him to obey it." That is our national creed. I can hear the Trump partisans howling that Clinton has subverted the law on multiple occasions. It is their right to do so, but it must be pointed out that she has never been found guilty of anything. You can then resort to conspiracy theories as to why that may be the case. But those too have never been proven by fact.
Trump by contrast boasts of how the law should not apply to him. As crude as the nouns were in that leaked audio tape, what was most offensive was the relish with which he outlined a host of actions - the verbs - for which the rule of law says he does not have the right to act without consent. Yet his voice reeked of the privilege of a man who believed his celebrity removed any such constraints. When he told HIllary Clinton in the debate she would "be in jail" if he were president, those are the threats of a despot, tyrant, or monarch - not a president governed by our Constitution.
It was John Adams who penned the phrase, "a government of laws, and not of men." This is how our Founding Fathers saw our national destiny. This is the spirit that our citizens, over the ages, have demanded of our political leaders follow. I suspect it is something most Americans still believe."
"As Donald Trump paced menacingly last night on stage, as he threatened Hillary Clinton with imprisonment even though her actions have already been subjected to the arm of justice, as he batted away concerns over the leaked audio of him boasting of sexual assault as mere "locker room talk", the cumulative image for millions of votes, I suspect, is that this is a man who, at a fundamental level, does not understand what it means to be an American. And thus, by logical extension, he has no business being president.
Teddy Roosevelt famously stated: "No man is above the law and no man is below it, nor do we ask any mans permission when we ask him to obey it." That is our national creed. I can hear the Trump partisans howling that Clinton has subverted the law on multiple occasions. It is their right to do so, but it must be pointed out that she has never been found guilty of anything. You can then resort to conspiracy theories as to why that may be the case. But those too have never been proven by fact.
Trump by contrast boasts of how the law should not apply to him. As crude as the nouns were in that leaked audio tape, what was most offensive was the relish with which he outlined a host of actions - the verbs - for which the rule of law says he does not have the right to act without consent. Yet his voice reeked of the privilege of a man who believed his celebrity removed any such constraints. When he told HIllary Clinton in the debate she would "be in jail" if he were president, those are the threats of a despot, tyrant, or monarch - not a president governed by our Constitution.
It was John Adams who penned the phrase, "a government of laws, and not of men." This is how our Founding Fathers saw our national destiny. This is the spirit that our citizens, over the ages, have demanded of our political leaders follow. I suspect it is something most Americans still believe."
There was some kind of data from a news source last night that listed it all out and had her at 0 and had him at 8. They counted interjections differently with her at 3 and him at like 18. I don't know what their criteria for interjection is verse interruption, but my point stands regardless, yeah.
Man-is-Obsolete
Member
Last night Hillary looked content to let Donald stand on his two feet again. She was there to talk policy with the audience and collect sound bites from Trump. Hillary is obviously playing the long game here, and letting Donald stop the bleeding from his own party will only make it hurt much worse when her campaign and places like the NY Times and WaPost gash that wound open again.
i can't believe the Islamophobia question is not getting more play. He literally answered her question of how to remedy it in our country with an Islamophobic answer. Unreal.
i can't believe the Islamophobia question is not getting more play. He literally answered her question of how to remedy it in our country with an Islamophobic answer. Unreal.
Since when was arming insurgents ever a good idea?
Hell, they bombed a police station in Turkey just this weekend.
But yes Hillary arm the Kurds, this is definitely going to be a good idea for years to come.
S
Steve.1981
Unconfirmed Member
I'm Scottish, so my perspective is that of an outsider looking in, but from what I've seen I really think Hillary Clinton has handled both these debates quite well.
She's in a very strange position. I mean, Trump is so obviously a terrible, unsuitable candidate...but no matter how badly he behaves or what despicable shit he says, nothing seems to stick. He keeps going, and people keep supporting him and excusing his behaviour and words. He's now the official Republican candidate and she has to handle him, somehow, knowing full well that she will get none of the leeway he enjoys. If she lowers herself to his mean, snide, abusive level then the blowback will be huge. It will be perfect ammo for the people who defend him, to then use to attack her. She literally can't win those people over.
She's doing the only thing that makes sense, imo. She's handing him the rope and letting him hang himself, while she stands to the side with an appropriately confused look on her face. The plan is obviously to ignore Trump's hardcore supporters and try to win over everyone else.
Or maybe I'm reading to much into it. Who knows, that's just my take on this baffling, unprecedented situation.
She's in a very strange position. I mean, Trump is so obviously a terrible, unsuitable candidate...but no matter how badly he behaves or what despicable shit he says, nothing seems to stick. He keeps going, and people keep supporting him and excusing his behaviour and words. He's now the official Republican candidate and she has to handle him, somehow, knowing full well that she will get none of the leeway he enjoys. If she lowers herself to his mean, snide, abusive level then the blowback will be huge. It will be perfect ammo for the people who defend him, to then use to attack her. She literally can't win those people over.
She's doing the only thing that makes sense, imo. She's handing him the rope and letting him hang himself, while she stands to the side with an appropriately confused look on her face. The plan is obviously to ignore Trump's hardcore supporters and try to win over everyone else.
Or maybe I'm reading to much into it. Who knows, that's just my take on this baffling, unprecedented situation.
The Lamonster
Member
Dear mods,
Love,
The Lamonster
This joke is played out now.
Love,
The Lamonster
I wonder if a campaign ad that outlines the premise of the Gish Gallop might not be a bad idea. Not just promotional, but educational too!
Explicitly underlining that the fact-checking is accompanied with video (when she knows it exists in advance) would probably help in that regard.
To be fair, I'd be happy to put that down as metaphor, it's not an uncommon turn of phrase. Although that said, a form of dogwhistle for the more... unhinged evangelicals?
DerangedHermit
Member
Because as we seen for this weekend, it does not matter what he says about minorities. But if it's a white woman, oh boy...
GitarooMan
Member
Man, I almost forgot that horribly offensive answer to the Muslim women basically victim blaming and saying Islamaphobia is your fault because you are not reporting well enough. I mean, yikes. The density of ridiculous things he says is so high amazingly awful things fall through the cracks.
Hey, thanks.
Already Torn
Banned
The media narrative is that Trump kept his campaign above water, but Clinton won the debate.
DragonSworne
Banned
Hopefully it will be in a court room being asked if he raped underage women.
a very cute dog
Member
Seemed like a weak performance for both of them. It benefits Hillary by default since Trump seems to be so far behind and needed to knock this one out of the park.
The polls bear that out.
FunkyMunkey
Banned
seeing joe on morning joe say trump won by literally being a caged animal with nothing to lose is pathetic. dude makes no sense on what he likes and doesn't
literally saying he won by "stopping the bleeding." that's how low the bar is for trump, won by not committing suicide on stage (even though he did to anyone with more than two brain cells), amazing
literally saying he won by "stopping the bleeding." that's how low the bar is for trump, won by not committing suicide on stage (even though he did to anyone with more than two brain cells), amazing
excelsiorlef
Member
Why do people keep bring up playing to his base?
His core base are the bottom barrel of Americans, the lowest of the low, the literal basket of deplorables, an accomplishment would have been playing to not his base...
He could have called Clinton a lying bitch and that would have played well to his base but that wouldn't have made it a good attack.
He definitely rallied the base by relentlessly attacking Clinton and saying he'll put her in jail. I was told by multiple Trump supporters he owned her and turned his campaign around. Unfortunately they don't seem to realize that Trump desperately needs to make up ground with women in order to win, and YouGov's scientific poll said women think Clinton won the debate 50% to 38%, with CNN/ORC reporting women said Clinton won 64% to 30%.
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
The more I see Europeans comment on the debate and this eleciton, the more I want to move my family to Europe.
He meant the media HE visits, like Breitbart, Drudge, etc.
Yeah I'm not seeing it on places like CNN or MSNBC, TIME, BBC, etc. Oh yeah Fox favors him so I'll give him that.
I'd be comfortable saying it was a tie, but, like I said, in my mind Hillary won. She already is in the better position so nothing short of an embarrassment for her was a win for Donald Trump.
And this is one of the biggest reasons that Clinton was between a rock and a hard place for most of the debate.
Clinton could have attacked Trump head-on, definitely. But take his first question for instance, where he immediately goes off the rails into ISIS issues, or his revisionist history on his support for the Iraq War, or even his expectation that if she was an "effective senator," she would have single-handedly changed America. Two minutes is not a whole lot of time when you're on stage, especially for answering questions of a heavy policy nature. And a lot of what Trump was saying, despite him "telling it how it is," was just factually wrong, so Clinton would have to cover a lot of ground each question.
It was a judgment call and she decided to stick to answering the questions at least, because I think she understood (more than Trump) that those people on the stage were representative of the undecided moderates and this was probably one of her only chances for her to appeal to them directly.
Tal Shiar Agent
Banned
NAFTA might have messed up manufacturing in the US, but it did prepare us for the rise of automation. The US economy has a big advantage over the economy of China, Mexico, India, etc because we've already transitioned to a post-manufacturing economy while automation is going to hit them hard and fast.
I mean, gaf would give a pretty rosy view of the average American.
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