The Lamonster
Member
hide ya dicks! they coming for everybody!
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Presidential Debate #2 |Washington University| Grab me right in the Ken Bone
- Thread starter Paskil
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hide ya dicks! they coming for everybody!
You don't actually think Clinton wants him gone at this juncture, do you? He's appalled undecideds more, that's a given. His base was never going anywhere.
excelsiorlef
Member
Because they are spineless....
He won the Primary , he was never going to go anywhere... he's not going to win, the GOP is freaking out, Ryan seems to be worried that the house might be in play now....
This is like arguing that Bernie Sanders was competitive because he lasted until all the votes were tallied in the Primary instead of dropping out way earlier, he wasn't competitive he just didn't quit.
You can't actually stop Trump from running at this juncture against his will.
Paul Ryan is done with him:
Paul Ryan wont defend or campaign for Trump ahead of election - The Washington Post
https://apple.news/AZsfHAjGERpSqQzvQa9iPMA
Paul Ryan wont defend or campaign for Trump ahead of election - The Washington Post
https://apple.news/AZsfHAjGERpSqQzvQa9iPMA
He's till running, but is way behind in the polls. He'll likely get less than 200 electoral college votes at this point. He's in the race, but his shot at the presidency is nil.
I'm not sure what you expected to happen. Trump will never stop running and the GOP has no leverage to make him stop.
He is out of the race. He was 6 points behind before the rape tape. But he's not going to go anywhere before November.
The GOP leadership is terrified of ditching him because it will probably kill their House majority. But it's probably dead anyway.
Laevateinn
Member
One thing I haven't seen much discussion on is Trump's obsession with the nebulous Jews -- Warren Buffett, George Soros, Sydney Blumenthal et al -- who he seems to believe are controlling Hillary. I feel like he's talking directly to Stormfront there.
benjipwns
Banned
Of course not, this is why she had him get in the race in the first place.
Darryl M R
Member
Defending and Supporting are separate things. Basically he is leaving Trump out to dry.
Of course he fucking is.
Megatron
Member
Did you guys miss the debate? She DID get into muckracking with Trump. She spent way too much time attacking him. She even threw the first punch last night and kept bringing him up when being asked questions. Its one thing to defend yourself when he attacks but she got into it way too much last night. If shes going to do it, she might as well win.
Clinton has had a consistent lead throughout the entire campaign. At this point the fact that Trump has a floor of maybe 35-40% of the vote says less about Trump as a candidate, and more about the core dynamics of presidential politics in the U.S., which is, if you have a D or R next to your name on the ballot, you're pretty much guaranteed 35-40% of the vote.
Laevateinn
Member
Truth-o-meter broke. We're waiting on a replacement.
"He would be alive today if I was President at that time."
*goes on to point out that Hillary voted yes for the war*
Motherfffffff~
You were in support of the war as well! You only changed your opinion after it was clear it was a scheit idea!
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...still-wrong-his-claim-opposed-iraq-war-ahead/
*goes on to point out that Hillary voted yes for the war*
Motherfffffff~
You were in support of the war as well! You only changed your opinion after it was clear it was a scheit idea!
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...still-wrong-his-claim-opposed-iraq-war-ahead/
benjipwns
Banned
Warren Buffett is Jewish?
Blumenthal has been Hillary's dirty tricks guy for years. Soros has been GOP's billionaire boogeyman since 2004.
Him doing 'well' hurts the GOP more, which is a win-win in my books.
I don't get what people are flustered about? Trump doing 'well' enough for the remaining GOP folks to hesitate about bouncing is basically the best case scenario.
Might have even been clinton's strategy to begin with.
Some 5th dimension chess at play.
I don't get what people are flustered about? Trump doing 'well' enough for the remaining GOP folks to hesitate about bouncing is basically the best case scenario.
Might have even been clinton's strategy to begin with.
Some 5th dimension chess at play.
For someone who claims to really hate both candidates, it's amazing how you managed to conveniently dismiss much more of Trump's BS than Clinton's, because that's the only way you can possibly normalize them like you did here. You're certainly doing him more of a favor than her, despite "really" hating him. For reals, really.
GurgleBot20
Member
Pence also supported the resolution while in the house, but Trump wouldn't know that without talking to him.
EatinOlives
Member
The more I think about the debate the less I agree with the notion that Hillary didn't do so well. I'm still not entirely sure what people were expecting from Hillary. There was a lot of bloodlust late last night just before the debate and people kept shouting that Hillary needed to "destroy him" and were upset when "she didn't". Before I keep entertaining that notion I think I'm going to have to hear specifics on what exactly people were expecting she do, and how they expected the debate to play out. Did they expect Hillary to shout him down? Did they expect Donald to burst into tears?
I think about the performance of both and still think Donald was far and away the worse debater. Everything, from his non-answers to his demeanor of constantly pacing back and forth and getting in her space, his stylistic choice to demean Hillary by referring to her solely by emphasized "SHE" and "HER", outright arguing with the moderators, constantly interrupting, continuing to deny verifiable fact, admitted to claiming the $1b loss to avoid paying taxes, flat out disagreed with his VP, the list goes on. Hillary was not perfect in that she had a couple of weak answers and one to two bizarre non-sequitur transitions (when she decided to bring up Donald's tax returns), but that's the thing, she wasn't perfect in the first debate either. In that one she also had a couple of weak answers and/or meandering points. If anything this was a straight up repeat of the first debate.
It seems that with the mass hysteria over the weekend that people were expecting something catastrophic during the debate, and then were upset when it didn't happen. But people don't seem to know what exactly they expected to happen, and they don't seem to know why they expected Clinton to "finish him" or what she should've done to actually do it. What they instead got was a repeat of the first debate, which nobody believes Donald came out on top of, but somehow that's treated as a Donald "win". Shit like "well he stopped the bleeding!" even though everyone who was going to get off the Donald train already did it by Saturday afternoon, there wasn't any more "bleeding" for him to stop.
You can also see it with the rumors from late last night. The constant peddling of the "Pence is dropping out!" rumor even though there's absolutely no reason to believe that he'd ever do so, as he has nothing to gain by doing so and logistically it doesn't make any sense. It seems that as the debate continued and it seemed clear this ended up being a repeat of last time, people were still thirsty for that "cataclysm" they wanted and started spinning rumors of their own. It's a bad look, and worse when they start taking it out on Clinton who did basically just as well as she did last time just because she wasn't the harbinger of destruction even despite the fact that they don't even know what they wanted in the first place.
I think about the performance of both and still think Donald was far and away the worse debater. Everything, from his non-answers to his demeanor of constantly pacing back and forth and getting in her space, his stylistic choice to demean Hillary by referring to her solely by emphasized "SHE" and "HER", outright arguing with the moderators, constantly interrupting, continuing to deny verifiable fact, admitted to claiming the $1b loss to avoid paying taxes, flat out disagreed with his VP, the list goes on. Hillary was not perfect in that she had a couple of weak answers and one to two bizarre non-sequitur transitions (when she decided to bring up Donald's tax returns), but that's the thing, she wasn't perfect in the first debate either. In that one she also had a couple of weak answers and/or meandering points. If anything this was a straight up repeat of the first debate.
It seems that with the mass hysteria over the weekend that people were expecting something catastrophic during the debate, and then were upset when it didn't happen. But people don't seem to know what exactly they expected to happen, and they don't seem to know why they expected Clinton to "finish him" or what she should've done to actually do it. What they instead got was a repeat of the first debate, which nobody believes Donald came out on top of, but somehow that's treated as a Donald "win". Shit like "well he stopped the bleeding!" even though everyone who was going to get off the Donald train already did it by Saturday afternoon, there wasn't any more "bleeding" for him to stop.
You can also see it with the rumors from late last night. The constant peddling of the "Pence is dropping out!" rumor even though there's absolutely no reason to believe that he'd ever do so, as he has nothing to gain by doing so and logistically it doesn't make any sense. It seems that as the debate continued and it seemed clear this ended up being a repeat of last time, people were still thirsty for that "cataclysm" they wanted and started spinning rumors of their own. It's a bad look, and worse when they start taking it out on Clinton who did basically just as well as she did last time just because she wasn't the harbinger of destruction even despite the fact that they don't even know what they wanted in the first place.
Laevateinn
Member
My mistake. I guess he isn't.
LegalEagleMike
Member
Pretty damn crazy for a poll that traditionally has a republican lean.
excelsiorlef
Member
Oh he knows, he literally said it was ok for Pence to have done that and changed his mind but not Clinton...
It killed that talking point before it ever had a chance to breathe.
Steve Youngblood
Member
While spineless isn't an unfair charge, I will note that they are in a very difficult position. The problem they face is that Trump has a very enthusiastic base. A base that supports him not only in spite of comments like "grab them by the pussy," but more worryingly in part because of statements like that. And the issue they have is that currently they need this demographic as part of their coalition.
People like Ryan tried to get someone other than Trump nominated, but they failed. They can drop him now officially, but do the long-term benefits outweigh pissing off Trump's base? Look at what happened at that unity rally on Saturday when Trump was disinvited.
I'll note that this isn't me feeling sorry for Ryan. They all played their part in creating this situation. I'm just stating that this isn't an easy call from where I'm sitting. There's a tightrope act of trying not to go down with the ship while also not wanting to be visibly seen abandoning the ship.
You're supposed to point out what's wrong about your opponent. You're supposed to tell the public why your opponent won't be fit for president.
Guess what...this whole time we've had one person state their plans. One. While the other has devoted his whole debut album as one big diss track with a vocab smaller than my daughter's.
Icyflamez96
Member
Just watched the debate. Took mini-notes while watching and this is what I ended up with:
1. Is Trump a bad man?
H: He is a very bad man
T: I am not a bad man
2. No really, Trumps bad right?
T: No, Im not. Her husband raped several women. She is the devil, and should be put in jail.
H: Trump is bad.
3. How would you fix health care?
H: Spend more money to pay for poor people to have health care.
T: Repeal Obamacare. Repeal lines to foster competition.
4. MUSLIMS
T: They need to self-police and RADICAL ISLAM.
H: Muslims are people.
5. Ban Muslims?
T: I mean we need to ban extremists and have better vetting.
H: THINK OF THE CHILDREN.
6. Wikileaks says Hilary is a two-faced liar liar pants on fire.
H: Abraham Lincoln, proposed the 13th Amendment to allow me to carry hot sauce in my purse. THE RUSSIANS dont like me and are helping Donald.
T: Putin seems ok. I opened a post office recently, and I pay a lot in taxes.
7. Make the rich pay more taxes?
T: Remove carried interest & other loopholes. Hillary could have done this already but didnt
H: Im Robin Hood yall. Rich people owe us more.
8. Trump, you sly tax evading devil!
T: Yup, I used laws that Hillary failed to prevent. Legally I did nothing wrong WHAT. Heck all her friends are doing it too. ¯_(ツ_/¯ BTW Hillary created ISIS.
H: Golly I sure love children. After 9/11 I did things I was supposed to do, and helped women in unexplained ways. Also, people voted for me to be senator.
9. Syrian boy died. How do we help dead Syrian boys?
H: Syria is fucked right now. I made no-fly zones. THE RUSSIANS hate me, but Ill work with them to fix it somehow. War isnt my thing really. Maybe send some ninjas or offer ninja training. We could also send guns there and let them sort it out themselves.
T: We need more nukes than Russia. At least everyone over there is killing ISIS for us. KILL ISIS. Hillary is stupid.
10. Why will you be the bestest president ever?
H: People voted for me. HAHAHAHA. Im proud of 30 years. Know your place. Think of the children.
T: Yes because Hillary is a liar. Ethnicity name drops. Education is a disaster. I cant be worse than her.
11. Why did you call half of us deplorable?
H: My bad, I just really hate Trump. He hates minorities. Me & Bernie are besties <3
T: We are divided. Hillary = Obama.
12. Late night tweeting is bad.
T: When I was tweeting in the middle of the night, Hillary was asleep and Bengazi happened.
H: Trump is mean. My husband did things. Obama is also good and did things.
13. Voting for Supreme Court justice replacement?
H: I want one that will do the things I want. Senate are assholes for not doing their job.
T: I want one that will do the things I want. GUNS.
14. PURE ENERGY
T: American energy is best energy. Less foreign dependence. Fuck the EPA.
H: I failed to prevent China from letting Trump do stuff cheaper. Agree energy independence good. Clean energy superpowers. I had a plan.
15. Now kiss?
H: I hate him, but his kids are ok I guess.
T: Yup my kids are great. You suck, but at least you dont quit sucking.
I really hate both candidates at this point. No matter who wins, we lose. You can argue who will suck the least, but that's just sad. The moderators did a terrible job limiting answers & responses, but at least they seemed to give equal time to both candidate's drama.
Sounds about right, lol.
GurgleBot20
Member
Link to this? I think it's remarkable how it's been set up that every politician is allowed to move on policy positions except Clinton, from both sides of the aisle. Hell, someone in this very thread just suggested that Biden is more reliable in this manner.
Edit: The Biden comment was actually from the PoliGaf thread. I've had both tabs opened since last night :/
From Nate Silver at fivethirtyeight:
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-second-debate-probably-didnt-help-trump-and-he-needed-help/
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-second-debate-probably-didnt-help-trump-and-he-needed-help/
excelsiorlef
Member
Well I mean morally speaking....
Gordon Shumway
Banned
One thing Hillary needs to stop doing forever is tell people to go to her website for fact checking...
There is inherent bias no matter how you listen to it...
Maybe pick a 3rd party website?
Anyways i still feel like she can give a quick 1 sentence rebuttal to every single lie he says without eating up too much time, which she did pretty well last night.
There is inherent bias no matter how you listen to it...
Maybe pick a 3rd party website?
Anyways i still feel like she can give a quick 1 sentence rebuttal to every single lie he says without eating up too much time, which she did pretty well last night.
benjipwns
Banned
Trump never would have surrendered like this.
Also bad is her "who they want to be president...and it's not me" because no matter who the "they" is (Russia, etc.), it's not a good construction to use.
Cloud Strife
Member
Nice notes! Agreed.Just watched the debate. Took mini-notes while watching and this is what I ended up with:
1. Is Trump a bad man?
H: He is a very bad man
T: I am not a bad man
2. No really, Trumps bad right?
T: No, Im not. Her husband raped several women. She is the devil, and should be put in jail.
H: Trump is bad.
3. How would you fix health care?
H: Spend more money to pay for poor people to have health care.
T: Repeal Obamacare. Repeal lines to foster competition.
4. MUSLIMS
T: They need to self-police and RADICAL ISLAM.
H: Muslims are people.
5. Ban Muslims?
T: I mean we need to ban extremists and have better vetting.
H: THINK OF THE CHILDREN.
6. Wikileaks says Hilary is a two-faced liar liar pants on fire.
H: Abraham Lincoln, proposed the 13th Amendment to allow me to carry hot sauce in my purse. THE RUSSIANS dont like me and are helping Donald.
T: Putin seems ok. I opened a post office recently, and I pay a lot in taxes.
7. Make the rich pay more taxes?
T: Remove carried interest & other loopholes. Hillary could have done this already but didnt
H: Im Robin Hood yall. Rich people owe us more.
8. Trump, you sly tax evading devil!
T: Yup, I used laws that Hillary failed to prevent. Legally I did nothing wrong WHAT. Heck all her friends are doing it too. ¯_(ツ
H: Golly I sure love children. After 9/11 I did things I was supposed to do, and helped women in unexplained ways. Also, people voted for me to be senator.
9. Syrian boy died. How do we help dead Syrian boys?
H: Syria is fucked right now. I made no-fly zones. THE RUSSIANS hate me, but Ill work with them to fix it somehow. War isnt my thing really. Maybe send some ninjas or offer ninja training. We could also send guns there and let them sort it out themselves.
T: We need more nukes than Russia. At least everyone over there is killing ISIS for us. KILL ISIS. Hillary is stupid.
10. Why will you be the bestest president ever?
H: People voted for me. HAHAHAHA. Im proud of 30 years. Know your place. Think of the children.
T: Yes because Hillary is a liar. Ethnicity name drops. Education is a disaster. I cant be worse than her.
11. Why did you call half of us deplorable?
H: My bad, I just really hate Trump. He hates minorities. Me & Bernie are besties <3
T: We are divided. Hillary = Obama.
12. Late night tweeting is bad.
T: When I was tweeting in the middle of the night, Hillary was asleep and Bengazi happened.
H: Trump is mean. My husband did things. Obama is also good and did things.
13. Voting for Supreme Court justice replacement?
H: I want one that will do the things I want. Senate are assholes for not doing their job.
T: I want one that will do the things I want. GUNS.
14. PURE ENERGY
T: American energy is best energy. Less foreign dependence. Fuck the EPA.
H: I failed to prevent China from letting Trump do stuff cheaper. Agree energy independence good. Clean energy superpowers. I had a plan.
15. Now kiss?
H: I hate him, but his kids are ok I guess.
T: Yup my kids are great. You suck, but at least you dont quit sucking.
I really hate both candidates at this point. No matter who wins, we lose. You can argue who will suck the least, but that's just sad. The moderators did a terrible job limiting answers & responses, but at least they seemed to give equal time to both candidate's drama.
The guy looked and acted totally sleep deprived. I know that's like. He was completely low energy and seemed even more incoherent than usual.
Hillary wasn't on her best game either but at least she stayed on subject. Terrible debate all around.
GurgleBot20
Member
Argh....
Yes Hillary took the safe approach. It's like in the UFC when GSP would just lay and pray on people because he could and win boring fights. Was it exciting for the audience no but it got the job done. He never went for the knock out after getting knocked out to Sierra. Hillary didn't want to come out swinging because she had no reason to. Why poke the bear or whatever that saying is.
Also a lot of people say the debates are awful because of the content but it's hard for Hillary to even discuss policy etc because half of the debate is Trump speaking nonsense so its already in the gutter by default.
Like Hillary did her best to make the debate seem somewhat normal but when you have Trump the debate is going to be awful no matter what Hillary does.
2 of my friends keep saying both sides with one of them being a hardcore Gary Johnson supporter. They're both straight white males.
Tribalism. It's nothing new. The media Stokes the "game" because it's profitable, and false equivilance creates false "both sides" narratives.
Facts? In a debate thread involving Trump? I almost broke it. Almost.
This Politico article covers this issue quite well.
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/09/sid-blumenthal-birthers-clinton-obama-228388
I'm not sure why people should mock/attack each-other over disagreeing as to the degree that Trump has fucked himself.
NHarmonic.
Member
Might as well be closeted trump support. I wonder in which dimension the amount of shit, lies and misinformation trump vomits is equal to Hillary's proposals...
But hey "lol they both suck".
Grow up people.
Yeah. Hillary's just not great at 'picking fights' or being edgy, and she shouldn't have to be.
Especially when she mentions 'he hits low, we aim high'.
In the end, she still did as about as good any politician would do against Trump, sans maybe obama.
It's always fun to brainstorm what kind of debates we could have had with Bernie vs trump, or obama vs trump, or heck even biden vs trump though.
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