PistolGrip
sex vacation in Guam
Just about every Economist worth his title was predicting a buble in the housing market. I remember people selling there property in 07 because of the predictions.SpeedingUptoStop said:
Professor who predicted recession says we are still screwed.
- Thread starter Ripclawe
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One of the bigger problems in my eyes is the rate at which companies can ship jobs overseas. What we really need is a new 'boom' industry to shake things up like the tech sector, but even if we do get it, it'll only provide jobs for about 4 or 5 years until cheaper foreign countries can become competent, and oops, there goes the jobs again.
agreed. America is becoming a nation of middle managers because they've outsourced almost everything else. But now companies are realizing that if there's no one to manage why have middle management?kevm3 said:
First it was manufacturing cause it was easy.
Then came the tech boom.
Then it was HR and operations.
Then it was QA
Then basic tech support
Then whole IT groups
Then product development and engineering
Now we're to small sections of marketing and sales. After which, well, what's really left?
Companies are in a race to the bottom line. We're getting there. Fact is the people at the top make more and more while everyone else keeps getting squeezed. It's not healthy or sustainable. It's one thing for the country to lose jobs that were unskilled but we've been losing jobs that require bachelors and master degrees for years now, you can't reasonably expect these workers to get retrained, they're already tens of thousands in the whole on their education.
Since Reagan we've been too in love with this serf/lord relationship and have forgotten that business is supposed to serve us, not the other way around. But then, that's a lesson America forgot decades ago, if it ever learned it.
SlipperySlope
Banned
zerostackers said:
I agree with this mostly. I said from day one to let them all fail. Can't run a business properly? Not my problem. You gotta declare bankruptcy. That's life. Capitalism.
We would have hit the bottom faster that way. Now we just have to float our way to the bottom, causing trillion dollar deficits, and making the economic hit that much longer and nagging.
I agree 100% that we should've just let most of these shitty companies fail.
For one, most of them add no real value. They are fucking paper companies.
Second, while having them fail would have hurt, it would put us all on a better track for the long-term. The shitty businesses would have failed. The truly strong ones would've picked up the pieces. As it stands, the shitty businesses are still here and have no incentive to be more careful; the lesson learned is this: "Want to take a risk? Do it. The government has your back!"
Third, shit stills sucks even WITH them bailed out, AND we now are trillions more in debt. Fucking fantastic.
Finally, the idea that you can "spend" your way out of this is fucking ridiculous. I don't know where the idea comes from, but it makes no sense whatsoever. It simply delays the inevitable.
For one, most of them add no real value. They are fucking paper companies.
Second, while having them fail would have hurt, it would put us all on a better track for the long-term. The shitty businesses would have failed. The truly strong ones would've picked up the pieces. As it stands, the shitty businesses are still here and have no incentive to be more careful; the lesson learned is this: "Want to take a risk? Do it. The government has your back!"
Third, shit stills sucks even WITH them bailed out, AND we now are trillions more in debt. Fucking fantastic.
Finally, the idea that you can "spend" your way out of this is fucking ridiculous. I don't know where the idea comes from, but it makes no sense whatsoever. It simply delays the inevitable.
Economic protectionism (read: a repudiation of globalism) is the ONLY way that this country's economic situation will improve appreciably. Too bad our politicians are more beholden to corporate interests than, you know, the interests of the people whom they're actually supposed to serve. Globalism is a sham perpetuated by moneyed interests, for moneyed interests. The highminded, egalitarian rhetoric tossed around regarding it is merely a smokescreen generated by the rich and powerful to cover up for an enormous transfer of wealth. The sooner people realize this, the better. Shame they won't, because they've bought the rhetoric hook, line, and sinker even as their quality of life has been eroded.
D
Deleted member 1159
Unconfirmed Member
BastardTrees said:
You know, I'm actually considering it since I can go in as an Officer now...If none of my current job prospects turn out, I'm going to get in touch with a Marine recruiter.
CharlieDigital
Banned
loosus said:
They add no real value...except that if they had failed, most of us wouldn't have had jobs the next week.
The real problem is that we saved them and yet Congress -- and the American people, quite frankly -- are willing to let them get away with what amounts to a slap on the wrist. IMO, it's okay that we saved them; it wasn't only in their best interest, it was also in the interest of every single middle-class working American to bail them out. The problem is that it seems so distant and removed now, that it's hard to get the people worked up about it and to drive the true reforms that we need to ensure that we don't relapse.
There is little populist support for strong financial reform and stricter restraints around risk taking. There is little populist support for increasing taxation on the huge bonuses paid on Wall Street or outright capping of executive pay as a % of average employee pay. People are upset that we bailed these companies out, and yet they are revolted by any mention of federal regulation and wave their hands shouting about "Communism!" and "Socialism!".
kevm3 said:
We are all dumber for having to endure reading that. I'm taking it from your response here and responses later you probably got laid off for being non adaptive or some shit. There are a metric fucktonload of IT jobs in the US. Even during the boom of the recession my company was hiring as were many other companies around us.
The US also controls half the world's grain exports, we are also a major exporter of soy and other agricultural goods. Our exports annually are over 1 trillion dollars. I know it's the internet where any idiot can say whatever he likes but you're just completely ignorant. The fact that once the US hit a recession it quickly spidered out into a global recession speaks volumes for how much of a major player we are in the global economy. I know everyone thinks the US is the only place being hit by this but France and Spain are being hit much, much harder.
BastardTrees said:
As far as the Navy goes, no they aren't.
Last 2 months, I believe most of the recruitments offices of zone 2 of south florida were told that they didn't need to recruit anyone. Not only that, I've heard that they also raised the test scores to get in...
Also, the Air Force has a estimated waiting time of over 1 year, that means that although you are tied by contract to them (report every week, exercise, and leave whenever needed), they don't pay you til you set foot on bootcamp.
Meaning that you still need to find another job :lol
Hari Seldon
Member
He is right about the recovery number. It is all about inventory, it is not a real sustainable growth number.
Hari Seldon
Member
We need to stop caring about propping up a housing bubble or propping up stocks numbers on wall street. We need to eliminate the housing tax credit and create major incentives for starting a small business and hiring people. This won't benefit wall street, but fuck them. This is about jobs not stock prices. Huge consumerism will come back once people are comfortably employed again and don't fear that if they lose their job they won't be able to find a new one.
Always-honest
Banned
many people say the worst is yet to come.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Ripclawe said:
Isn't he just saying we need finanical regulatory reform?
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Hari Seldon said:
So what about the quarter before that?
The stock markets are going up while unemployment is rising and business are still closing.
Production is going down while the exchange is going up.
A bubble in the making.
People seriously need to riot and take these inept politicians and businessmen to the gallows.
We need a purge French and ancient Roman style.
Production is going down while the exchange is going up.
A bubble in the making.
People seriously need to riot and take these inept politicians and businessmen to the gallows.
We need a purge French and ancient Roman style.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
nubbe said:
WTF are you talking about? Riot for what? And I just saw today that production is going up.
For anyone interested the Financial Times have released data implying a double dip in the UK
Things are not going to be better, only worse in the next decades.Blablurn said:
Inflation is going to kick in, and I believe a dollar crisis will throw the USA into a 2nd world country status. Europe isn't going to be much better off.
The Economy now is in a worse shape then before the recession started.
speculawyer
Member
Yeah, the last 60 years didn't have to deal with globalization & imports. That only got big in the last 30 years and during that time period we were on a slow slide downward.ToxicAdam said:
And now the effects of racking up endless trade deficits is hitting.
speculawyer
Member
ksan said:
4. But just because you are right a few times doesn't mean you'll be right again.
silentspork
Member
ksan said:
Love it when GAF pretends as if they are economists. The truth is this: 99% of you have no idea what you are talking about, and neither do I.
Biff
Member
Think about this:
Right before the market crashed, there were very few warnings. Albeit there were some, but they didn't make headlines until it was too late.
Now that the market has recovered, there are tons of headlines saying "the worst is yet to come", creating a climate of caution and worry for the average consumer.
People who are in the know don't give their info out for free on blogs or forums. They are in the top floor of their corporation sitting in front of a beautiful $20,000 Teak wood desk signing contract extensions with a $2500 Montblanc pen. They make more money for themselves and their company than 50,000 Google ad hits could ever make on a blog site.
Right before the market crashed, there were very few warnings. Albeit there were some, but they didn't make headlines until it was too late.
Now that the market has recovered, there are tons of headlines saying "the worst is yet to come", creating a climate of caution and worry for the average consumer.
People who are in the know don't give their info out for free on blogs or forums. They are in the top floor of their corporation sitting in front of a beautiful $20,000 Teak wood desk signing contract extensions with a $2500 Montblanc pen. They make more money for themselves and their company than 50,000 Google ad hits could ever make on a blog site.
HarryHengst
Member
Shame though that for economists long term means "the last 5 years".Gallbaro said:
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
That's probably why they're so effective at pretending to be economists.silentspork said:
I'm thinking that stocks are recovering because of the Darwinian nature of this recession. Natural selection has eliminated most of the incompetent people, and the government bailed out the rest.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
minus_273 said:
Now that's funny. :lol
Mr. B Natural
Member
Have we actually figured out what we're going to do about foreclosures of the past and the ones to come thanks to the unemployment rate? To me it seems like we just ignored the issue and the cause of the crash just like we're ignoring the never-ending worthless wars of the past 10 years.
Have we done anything about the debt issue in america? I'm referring to the government's AND debts of the average middle and lower class america?
Have we done anything about the fact that america doesn't make anything anymore?
Have we done anything about the ever-stretching difference between middle class and upper class america?
Have we done anything about the increase in price in healthcare and education over the years?
And by "we" I mean anyone...the private sector, public...anyone.
Have anyone given me any reason to invest a dime in this country? Does our future look promising...where's the growth going to be? The tech age is slowing. The art age is long gone. It's all about production now. cheap vast production. That's not our thing. At best, we're gonna stay afloat in my eyes.
Have we done anything about the debt issue in america? I'm referring to the government's AND debts of the average middle and lower class america?
Have we done anything about the fact that america doesn't make anything anymore?
Have we done anything about the ever-stretching difference between middle class and upper class america?
Have we done anything about the increase in price in healthcare and education over the years?
And by "we" I mean anyone...the private sector, public...anyone.
Have anyone given me any reason to invest a dime in this country? Does our future look promising...where's the growth going to be? The tech age is slowing. The art age is long gone. It's all about production now. cheap vast production. That's not our thing. At best, we're gonna stay afloat in my eyes.
Wickerbasket
Member
Not to be shot at. Or blown up.BastardTrees said:
I've been considering it though, out of desperation.
LegendofJoe
Member
speculawyer said:
Thanks, I'll read over those articles tonight.
I predicted the recession every time I saw an idiot towing a boat in a jacked F250 with spinners while he worked as a warehouse manager.
You didn't need to be a professor to note that italian granite slab and a subzero range is not necessary for a $90k condo's kitchen.
You didn't need to be a professor to note that italian granite slab and a subzero range is not necessary for a $90k condo's kitchen.
Mr. B Natural said:
Basically it's all being swept under the rug to be dealt with later. Thriving banks are encouraged (coerced?) into sucking up the bad debt of failed banks, the government program has helped a whopping 100 homes (out of 400,000), but has fended off banks from seizing the homes of many more, Ginnie Mae is now picking up where Fannie/Freddie left off, reverse mortages are exploding and hiding a lot of the problems among seniors citizens.
That's as deep as I looked before I became too depressed to press on.
CharlieDigital said:
This is almost exactly my position on the whole debacle. The ripple effect of letting those banks fail would have been astounding. But God damn did we miss the boat on financial reform. Now instead of people bitching about how the banks need to be kept in check (which they clearly should be), they're complaining the gov't shouldn't have stepped in and provided TARP (see this thread). Nevermind that TARP will mostly be repaid to the gov't.
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
American laws are favorable to entrepreneurship, so there's that.Mr. B Natural said:
Loki said:
I think this is probably basically true. Undoubtedly, implementing a greater level of protectionism would cause problems initially (because our system would sort of crumble for a while). in the long term, I think we would be better off.
Other countries certainly seem to protect their jobs a lot more aggressively than we do.
I come from the rural south where NAFTA has left a huge hole that hasn't really even been filled. People that used to have good paying factory jobs are now working as cashiers for minimum wage, or they're unemployed, or they've found some other shitty way to keep themselves fed, but they aren't nearly as well off as they used to be. We were already having problems here before the recession hit, and now they're just worse.
Globalization may have initially helped a lot in some parts of the country, but it certainly didn't help here, and it looks like it's starting to hurt everybody else too.
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