What do physical discs have to do with ecosystems?
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PS4 Pro Won't Support 4k BluRay
- Thread starter blastprocessor
- Start date
What do physical discs have to do with ecosystems?
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Forcing a Prosumer to streaming 4K content is like buying a SACD audio setup and listen to it through crappy old speakers.
UHD Blu-Ray is the proper way to watch UHD content beside building your own IMAX theatre and getting the digital master. Netflix and Prime streaming have a lot lower nitrate and much more aggressive compression to play with.
family_guy
Member
User looking for inexpensive 4k Bluray player buys Xbox One. That user who didn't even want an Xbox might start buying Xbox One games. That user gets invested in the Xbox ecosystem and buys less games on PS4. That user later gets a Scorpio. That user cancels their PS+ subscription in favor of Xbox Live. That user probably would have gladly paid an extra $50 for the functionality. Sony didn't even need to eat the cost themselves.
Sony was determined to hit a $400 price point but really they would have been fine for at least the next year at $450 until Scorpio launches. Or they could have eaten the cost with the knowledge that PS+ subscriptions would offset the loss over time.
It's a premium videogame console that is selling to people who want a premium videogame console.
I don't buy Blurays and even if I did, I have an Xbox One S so how am I being "fucked over"?
Going on about "fanboys" is the argument of a child.
And if you really care about picture and sound quality you are not playing your UHD Blurays on an Xbox One S. Dedicated players are getting cheaper all the time and they do the job a lot better and come with a dedicated remote instead of a games controller. The hardcore AV crowd don't use games consoles to watch their films.
Did Crapgamer write this fan fiction?
Yes, because you represent every person looking to watch 4K content. I literally bought a One S purely for the UHD Blu Ray player. That's £200 that I never would've had to waste if Sony hadn't been so tight fisted.
Also, trying to imply that the difference between streaming vs. physical is comparable to the difference between playing UHD discs on a One vs. a native player is laughable. The vast majority of people will be absolutely content with the Xbox player. Even those with poor eyesight could tell you that streaming 4K is not ideal.
EASTC0AST_GH05T
Member
This is kinda reminding of the PS3 360 fiasco were PS fanboys was rubbing it in 360 fanboys faces that PS3 has a Blu Ray player and 360 doesn't. Its always nice to have more options outside of gaming but I noticed none of my friends on PS3 bought Blu Rays back then and streaming wasn't as big as it is now. I know there will always be a market for physical media but millions of users are subscribed to Netflix, Hulu and other streaming tv services even the people with crappy internet.
I'm not implying that at all, not sure where you got that from. Getting an Xbox One S just for the 4K Bluray player is a terrible purchase. It's a great games console but a mediocre Bluray player. You'd have been better off with a dedicated player if 4K Bluray is important to you (the Samsung costs the same as the One S).
The thing is that if someone that's interested in buying a 4K Bluray player has at the very least a minor interest in playing games, that someone will buy a One S. I personally have an Xbox One that will be selling for a One S just for the 4K Bluray playback, even though right now my PC and PS4 Pro get most of my playing time.
I'm not saying I won't use the gaming features of the Xbox. I already had an OG model. I'm saying I never would've spent that £200 if Sony didn't force me to. Calling it a terrible purchase lol. That hyperbole.
Why is it a problem for Sony that you shelled out 200£ for an Xbox?
Are you serious? I'm going to assume you're joking.
No, I'm not joking. The way I see it, you had two options: buy an Xbox or don't buy an Xbox. You chose to buy. Where does Sony enter this equation?
paperspace
Member
Last edited:
But somehow in the process Sony forced CrayToes to buy a second Xbox.
You think most people will do what I did? No lol. A decent chunk of the people I know have picked the One S over the Pro, not bought both. It's either/or for most. Even so, Sony pushing people in any way, shape or form towards a competitor is unbelievably stupid.
I had no intention of buying an Xbox. I don't particularly like the XB1. Sony knowingly neglected to include a key feature of the One S, thus pushing me to buy one. Is it really that difficult for you to understand?
gundamkyoukai
Member
Sony does not lose anything if the already had a PS4 .
Unless they start buying there games on XBS or stop paying for PS+ .
Okay I can see why it might be a good purchase for you as contrary to what you posted you're not buying it just for the 4K Bluray and have an existing Xbox One games library but it still stands that someone who is only interested in the 4K Bluray is much better served with a dedicated player as they get better audio and picture quality and a dedicated remote for the same price.
Well, I guess we'll just have to disagree. I trust Sony made a considered decision taking into account multiple factors. They may or may not fare better than Microsoft. I'm not convinced that they should be worried about future performance of PS4.
If it becomes evident that Xbox One starts catching up to PS4, I will stand corrected.
No apparently the poster didn't have a choice, Sony forced them.
You're missing the point entirely. I couldn't give two shits about which console performs better or Sony and Microsoft's financial figures. I care about me, as the consumer, and others in the same position. It blows my mind how people try and defend this kind of thing as if they're shareholders and not consumers.
I was buying a 4K player, regardless. Sony ensured that I would have to fork out an extra £200 to get one. Stop being purposely obtuse.
I'll answer this question, since my situation is exactly the same as the poster to whom you directed it. It's a problem for Sony because for the first time this gen, I'm playing Xbox games, and am becoming invested in the Xbox platform.
The Sbone is a perfectly satisfactory UHD BD player (its media remote is excellent, by the way); plus it lets me play Xbox exclusives that are superb games, but which weren't enough to sell me on the console by themselves. I'll keep playing multiplatform games on my Pro, but now I'll almost certainly trade in my S for a Scorpio; which I previously had little interest in due to my satisfaction with - and investment in - the Sony ecosystem. Now that I have an Sbone, I can trade up to a Scorpio and get what will be the most powerful system on the market for a couple of hundred bucks less, and now I've played Gears 4, I kind of would like to play Gears 5. The Scorpio is now cheaper and more attractive than it would have been if I hadn't picked up an Sbone. I wouldn't own an Sbone if Sony had included UHD BD playback. And I'm pretty sure Sony would prefer it if I didn't start buying my multiplats on a Scorpio from whenever it releases until the end of the gen.
I'm sure Sony would prefer you to stay within in the PlayStation ecosystem of course.
But obviously not enough to accept the trade off of 1) bumping up the price of the Pro or 2) taking a loss on the console, which considering the overall financial position of the company probably wasn't acceptable.
EASTC0AST_GH05T
Member
Sounds like a win for you as a gamer man, consumers shouldn't care so much about coporates like Sony and Microsofts well being when both companies are after your wallet. You can afford to have options so you win.
Sorry, my mistake.
I'm not defending them. I understand that you are disappointed. But still, if I were making the decisions for Sony, it is highly likely that I would have made the same call. The effect of lost sales on the bottom line is probably less than the effect of slimmer margin would have been, so the decision is financially justifiable.
Personally, I am not affected, because I have bought maybe three bluray discs this year (and I have not watched any of them, about which I hear constantly from my wife). But even if I were affected, I could separate the personal disappointment from the likely business reasons that Sony had.
Was dropping the UHD drive frustrating? Apparently, yes.
Was dropping the UHD drive stupid? I don't think so.
I cannot understand how anybody could defend Sony in this decision.
It's beyond stupid, IMHO.
I bought myself a OLED and now I'm searching for an UHD-Player, but my code-free Blu-Ray-Player from Oppo isn't going anywhere, so I'll consider a console for the 5 UHD-Discs I'll buy a year. Would've gladly bought the PS4Pro, have already a regular one @Home, but it seems that sony wants me to give money to the competitor!
Well, at least I can finally play Ori and the blind forest soon!
It's beyond stupid, IMHO.
I bought myself a OLED and now I'm searching for an UHD-Player, but my code-free Blu-Ray-Player from Oppo isn't going anywhere, so I'll consider a console for the 5 UHD-Discs I'll buy a year. Would've gladly bought the PS4Pro, have already a regular one @Home, but it seems that sony wants me to give money to the competitor!
Well, at least I can finally play Ori and the blind forest soon!
I will never understand people in a games forum talking about buying a 4k oled but not buying a pro for gaming and opting for the xbox. If I had a oled I would want my games to look as clean as possible and worry about movies second. If I could afford a 4k oled. I probably would just buy a dedicated uhd player.
Games will always be the number one factor for a console. You think a huge Spider-Man fan is gonna pass on playing that game Because they can't watch a 4K movie? I think that's highly unlikely extra perks are cool But gaming reign supreme.
Most People that could afford A 4k Oled aren't gonna opt for X1 as a player imo.
I don't get it then you were already in the Xbox ecosystem. It was MS that got you to spend an Xtra $200 for the S.
Also I don't get who this consumer is that cares so much about image quality that they can discern between not only 4K Blu ray and 4K streaming but also between blu rAy and streaming but then is playing games on an X1. If this was Scorpio vs pro I could see the argument but Pro vs S each system has trade offs if you care about image quality.
Finally has anyone provided any proof that this has actually been a blunder. Is there some evidence of large amounts of pros piling up in stores. I remember during the X1 launch after MS claimed it was sold out pics started pouring in of huge stacks of X1. Surely one of you could walk down to your local retailer and prove just how much of a disaster the sales of the PRO have been.
Ashtrax
Member
What blows my mind is that people are justifying their Xbox One S purchase for the UHD player alone over the PS4 Pro.
It's a crappy UHD player. Period. Nothing will change that. What people are trying to convince themselves is that they just want a cheap, do-everything-but-not-as-well device.
"Sony forced me to..." LOL Hilarious.
It's a crappy UHD player. Period. Nothing will change that. What people are trying to convince themselves is that they just want a cheap, do-everything-but-not-as-well device.
"Sony forced me to..." LOL Hilarious.
While your point about the millions subscribed to streaming services is true, it's also true that tons of people don't have the necessary internet speeds to support 4k streaming as an alternative to not having a 4k Blu-ray drive.
longdi
Banned
How is Sony fucking us over?
PS4 Pro is not a 'premium' console, for chrissake, it is only $399, the same launch price as PS4. Did you guys consider PS4 a 'premium' console?
It is nice to have everything, but i think Sony did the right thing by skipping the UHD drive and software, to hit $399 and a November launch. If it means more adoption, more developers encourage to optimise their games for Pro, gamers can only win.
Further more, people who buys movie-on-a-disk are getting lesser.
If the minority wants to watch UHD on bluray, then you can buy a standalone player, or use your HTPC. I dont consider gaming console that plays movie-on-a-disk as a prosumer device, not when the XB1s is reviewed as a totally average UHD player....
PS4 Pro is not a 'premium' console, for chrissake, it is only $399, the same launch price as PS4. Did you guys consider PS4 a 'premium' console?
It is nice to have everything, but i think Sony did the right thing by skipping the UHD drive and software, to hit $399 and a November launch. If it means more adoption, more developers encourage to optimise their games for Pro, gamers can only win.
Further more, people who buys movie-on-a-disk are getting lesser.
If the minority wants to watch UHD on bluray, then you can buy a standalone player, or use your HTPC. I dont consider gaming console that plays movie-on-a-disk as a prosumer device, not when the XB1s is reviewed as a totally average UHD player....
EASTC0AST_GH05T
Member
4K will be pushed upon the masses via streaming and UHD physical options along with the TVs but I am interested in seeing how fast the masses adapt to the industry. I think allot of consumers will have 4K Tvs by default because soon they will be the best option and at a affordable price. I am not so sure allot of people will purchase UHD 4K Blu Ray Dvds and I am pretty sure 4K streaming numbers won't be too high as well because of limitations and data caps.
Yep, we just purchased a 4k TV over Christmas and I just watched my first 4k movie (San Andreas) and it was fucking mindblowing. It impressed me just as much as my first blu-ray on the PS3 or DVD on the PS2, if not more.
Such a huge mistake from Sony honestly, to many average people, I think its going to influence their purchase. The games are really close on the Xbox One and PS4, framerates are probably better on a lot of titles on the PS4, but if you are someone who doesn't notice that as much, then Xbox One is still a decent games machine.
Such a huge mistake from Sony honestly, to many average people, I think its going to influence their purchase. The games are really close on the Xbox One and PS4, framerates are probably better on a lot of titles on the PS4, but if you are someone who doesn't notice that as much, then Xbox One is still a decent games machine.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Just like they did not use the PSOne to play CD's, the PS2 for DVD's, the PS3 for Blu-Ray and SACD, etc... oh wait tons of people did and the richness of features and the manufacturer keeping them up to date helped. Fact is that as a game console plus UHD Blu-Ray player Xbox One S is a good value especially if you want to make decent use of your 4K display which you may have even spent money on for calibration purposes.
Also, there is a difference between A/V enthusiast and consumer who wants decent use of their HW.
Buying an expensive UHD TV and limiting yourself to Netflix, unless you cannot afford a UHD Blu-Ray player, feels like more feeding our own ego than getting value for our money.
It is a bit like buying a fast car and never taking it out on the road for fear of scratching it...
You seem upset.
I'm not even sure where this narrative has come from. The UHD player in the One S is perfectly serviceable. The main issue it has is the noise level of the system. Give me a decent UHD player over noting at all.
Well, atm gaming isn't my priority!
longdi
Banned
And PS4 Pro offers 350% the power of Xbox 1s at only a 15% higher price ($50 more msrp).
Something gotta give man. And if im a gamer, i rather skip the totally average UHD playback.
longdi
Banned
I get it you want value for money out of the Pro.
Unless we know the bom of adding a UHD drive + software, we have to take it that PS4 Pro, with 220% performance increase over the OG PS4 and an astonishing 350% over Xbox1s, at only $399, it has to be value for money for the gamers, no?
family_guy
Member
Of course, but that's not the point. The point is Sony wants you to upgrade to a PS4 Pro, so they make more money off you. However they inadvertently pushed people into not upgrading and just getting an Xbox One S this holiday instead since they are so cheap. Then they possibly lose revenue from those people if they decide they like the Xbox ecosystem more, at least for multiplatform games. In a year, playing those multiplatform games will be even more appealing when played on a Scorpio. There you'll have a more powerful system with UHD playback all in one. If you don't have a PS4, you can pick up a PS4 for $250 or less when Spiderman comes out.
Absolutely true! It's that double-edged sword of competition. On the one hand, I'd love to just get everything I need in one box, and I'd initially decided to stick to owning one system this gen. Sony's decision cost me a few hundred bucks I'd rather have saved. On the other hand, you're right - it's nice to be able to justify owning both systems so I don't miss out on any exclusives.
Much of it is down to luck though: I'm fortunate that the Sbone plays UHD Blu-rays, because it would have been much harder to justify picking up a stand-alone player that didn't also play Gears 4; and I'd have had no plans to buy a Gears of War player if it didn't happen to also play 4K BDs.
I am not in the market for a 4K player I will never use, but did want the improved performance of the Pro, so thanks Sony for not making me pay for a useless (to me) bit of technology
Thank god Sony catered perfectly to you. How nice of them. If only we didn't all have different needs and desires.
PeterVenkman
Member
Thought I'd chime in here. I Own a 4K oled and have a living room pc which solves wanting games looking "as clean as possible" - I needed a 4K player and was happy to buy an S. I would have bought a PS4 pro if it'd had a 4K player.
StudioTan
Hold on, friend! I'd love to share with you some swell news about the Windows 8 Metro UI! Wait, where are you going?
Can you elaborate on the difference in picture and sound you'll get from using an Xbox One S vs a dedicated player?
Ashtrax
Member
Why would I be? I own the Xbox One S and the PS4 Pro. I also use a standalone UHD player as well.
The fact that people are throwing away the argument that the PS4 is a considerably more powerful machine than the Xbox for a pretty damn good price in favor of the UHD included is plain ridiculous.
If someone chose the Xbox One S because of the UHD over the power upgrades of the PS4 Pro, that is their decision. No one forced anyone to do it. That person decided that the UHD was obviously more important than the improved gaming performance / fidelity. That's all there is to it.
Ashtrax
Member
Using the Samsung model in particular:
- Dual HDMI out in case you own a receiver that isn't capable of passing through 4K HDR.
- Dolby Atmos and DTS:X support.
- Improved visual fidelity and manual video controls.