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[Loxus]

I don't think Sony cares about your energy bills. I think with the PS5 design their inital target was ~220W for the box + cooling system + PSU. But the dynamic clock system was a completely new feature, never done before in a mass produced item, so they needed time to fully test at ~200W before committing with their initial target.

I don't know why you think Sony would increase the PS5 power consumption nearly 2 years after release and doing so may break the PS5 chip logic.

"With this new paradigm, we're able to run way over that. In fact we have to cap the GPU frequency at 2.23 GHz so that we can guarantee that the on chip logic operates properly."



Not only that, in an interview with Digital Foundry and Mark Cerny.
PlayStation 5 uncovered: the Mark Cerny tech deep dive
Cerny said this,

"There's enough power that both CPU and GPU can potentially run at their limits of 3.5GHz and 2.23GHz, it isn't the case that the developer has to choose to run one of them slower."

So if there was already enough power to run the chip at it's limit, why would Sony increase power draw?
This is why I put Austin's power consumption results into question.

 

[LordOfChaos]

Thanks for this info.


Austin had this thing weeks before anyone else and never confirmed this, all it would have taken is calipers to the APU, sheesh

>Going forward, only Oberon Plus will be produced, and 7nm Oberon production stopped. And while one can make near 50% more PS5 chips per wafer than Xbox Series X chips,

This is crazy

Also is there any way to tell from the box if you're getting the new one?

 

[Godot25]

Use your brain, it doesn't hurt...

stop with this bullshit please.

many currencies did not fall off cliff towards US dollar and still got price hike... (for example canadian dollar)

Reason why they did not jack up price in US is because US is competitive market towards Xbox. In other markets they can do whatever they want because they are top dog (nintendo excluded)

 

[DeepEnigma]

Also is there any way to tell from the box if you're getting the new one?

The model number on the box.

 

[HiFiVideogameMusic]

I am waiting on the digital Foundry video

 

[kyliethicc]

stop with this bullshit please.

many currencies did not fall off cliff towards US dollar and still got price hike... (for example canadian dollar)

that’s because nobody wants a canadian dollar

 

[DeepEnigma]

that’s because nobody wants a canadian dollar

I'd buy that for a toonie.

 

[winjer]

I don't know why you think Sony would increase the PS5 power consumption nearly 2 years after release and doing so may break the PS5 chip logic.

"With this new paradigm, we're able to run way over that. In fact we have to cap the GPU frequency at 2.23 GHz so that we can guarantee that the on chip logic operates properly."



Not only that, in an interview with Digital Foundry and Mark Cerny.
PlayStation 5 uncovered: the Mark Cerny tech deep dive
Cerny said this,

"There's enough power that both CPU and GPU can potentially run at their limits of 3.5GHz and 2.23GHz, it isn't the case that the developer has to choose to run one of them slower."

So if there was already enough power to run the chip at it's limit, why would Sony increase power draw?
This is why I put Austin's power consumption results into question.

Silicon lottery.

 

[Naru]

I'd kill for a Slim model. I don't like how bulky the PS5 is compared to everything in the room hahaha.

True that and that's why my PS5 lives behind my TV since I have plenty of space there. It's just too big and too ugly.

 

[//DEVIL//]

smaller chip
lighter console (reduced shipping costs)
less material on cooling assembly
higher cost?

Something is not adding up

JIIIIIIIIM!

As much as I hate this idiot, this has nothing to do with Jim.

Every currency is going down now compared to the US dollar. By allot too. Thus increasing the price in these regions but the US. ( some currencies dropped down all time low that never was this low since 30 years )

Otherwise US people /companies import the item from Europe where the currency is down and the ps5 disk edition retail will be 400$ for example for US customers / companies importing from outside US.

There is also the fact it will actually cost Sony more to ship these things to these countries affected by the currency. As the value of the currency goes down, prices of items like goods/electronics/ shipping will go up to match the inflation. So if it used to cost Sony for example 1000$ for a container to be shipped to UK for example or Germany, now it will cost 1200$ ( just example numbers )

I am not really how to explain this in more details. But you have to blame your country for its shit currency to the US dollars. You can also blame the Ukraine war in this as all European countries are being affected by this and in general all countries around the world include Japan and Canada

 

[Loxus]

Silicon lottery.

Maybe your right.
Digital Foundry 1000 model is around 194W when playing Astro's Playroom.

Austin's 1200 model is 201W playing the same game.
Unless 6nm has no improved power consumption?

 

[kyliethicc]

Maybe your right.
Digital Foundry 1000 model is around 194W when playing Astro's Playroom.

Austin's 1200 model is 201W playing the same game.
Unless 6nm has no improved power consumption?

For a more official source on power draw, here’s Sony‘s own data.

Energy Efficiency

Networked standby and standby power consumption.

www.playstation.com

 

[winjer]

Unless 6nm has no improved power consumption?

N6 is just N7+ with EUVL steps.
All info I see, even from TSMC, only makes claims about area density, but same performance and power efficiency.
And also about less steps to produce each waffer, so significantly cheaper.

 

[lachesis]

Can you replace CMOS battery w/o breaking the liquid metal seal?

I think they were fixing the CMOS battery related PSN issue before, probably it's alright... but I like keep things in working order & replace batteries when they are out.
I did change PS3 one a while back - and honestly the version I had was also way under the hood, had to re-apply thermal paste. (Which probably is a good idea anyway)... but liquid metal seems little more risky.

 

[Physiognomonics]

Silicon lottery.

It wouldn't cause 10% power consumption difference.

 

[lostinblue]

I did change PS3 one a while back - and honestly the version I had was also way under the hood, had to re-apply thermal paste. (Which probably is a good idea anyway)... but liquid metal seems little more risky.

Same model I have then. It's a Slim model

Saw a guide of the launch PS3 Slim models and didn't find one specific for the one I had so I thought it was similar, you had to disassemble it all, but not the motherboard heatsink or so I thought... What a rabbit hole, just to replace a damn battery. I didn't want to reapply paste. And granted, I have the same feelings as you partly due to it, I don't want to mess with liquid metal at all if I can avoid it.

Give me easy battery access please.

 

[winjer]

It wouldn't cause 10% power consumption difference.

In extremes, of course it can.

 

[nominedomine]

The slim will probably use this same process. It's make the rumors of a 2023 release pretty believable.

The detachable drive rumors is a pretty smart idea, it allows them to work with a single SKU and pushes more people into the digital model (likely more profitable to them long-term)

 

[rickybooby87]

Nice, I remember speculation about this 6 months or so ago, was a pretty safe bet. Should help with the supply issue, as I understand it, 6nm isn't as heavily booked as 7nm. Lower temps and less power? Yes please. Those worried about variable clocks/heat should be able to breathe a sigh of relief.

 

[SoloKingRobert]

savings now for Sony, hopefully we get a slim sometime next year. I won’t buy that monstrosity of a thing they’re currently selling.

 

[LordOfChaos]

Those worried about variable clocks/heat should be able to breathe a sigh of relief.

Who was still worried about that, it's been two years, we know it doesn't work like PC turbo boost that gets slower with heat. It's deterministic on the other end, for a set of instructions coming in a certain clock will always be given, unless the system is just too hot to run safely.

 

[UltimaKilo]

Ha! That really wouldn't save them much money is shipping costs. They need to decrease the footprint, significantly.

The main factor that has stopped me from buying a PS5 is the stupid size of the console; I don't have anywhere to place that thing, not do I play enough video games to overlook the gargantuan size of it.

 

[rickybooby87]

Who was still worried about that, it's been two years, we know it doesn't work like PC turbo boost that gets slower with heat. It's deterministic on the other end, for a set of instructions coming in a certain clock will always be given, unless the system is just too hot to run safely.

You’d be surprised how many keep that dig in their back pocket lol.

 

[solidus12]

Here’s a picture of the heatsink inside the 7nm launch model vs the 6nm one.

Holy shit, that’s quite a difference. So what? Was the launch model running THAT hot or was it just over engineered to avoid the PS4 fan noise fiasco?

 

[LordOfChaos]

Here’s a picture of the heatsink inside the 7nm launch model vs the 6nm one.

Holy shit, that’s quite a difference. So what? Was the launch model running THAT hot or was it just over engineered to avoid the PS4 fan noise fiasco?

Overengineered. iirc in one of the PS5 engineering videos, they mentioned that the chassis team had initially thought to go even BIGGER and the chip team was surprised how much headroom they gave them. Def went a little over the top, and now especially with materials cost increases they're seeing what they can bring down with each TDP reduction. The APU was never running worryingly hot, just maaaybe one of the flash modules but I still suspect that may have been partly GN creating a gap on disassembling it and it hasn't led to any loss of life

 

[SlimySnake]

Holy shit, that’s quite a difference. So what? Was the launch model running THAT hot or was it just over engineered to avoid the PS4 fan noise fiasco?

Both. My PS5 goes up to 220 Watts in the Matrix. over 210 watts in spiderman. Apparently one game was running at around 231 watts. Compared to the PS4 which was 150 watts in most games, it's insane for a console to be pushing that much power without using vapor chamber cooling which is what the x1x and xsx use.

So sony had to go old school and pack a big boy to keep not just the heat down but also the noise which was a huge issue for both the base PS4 and Pro.

I mean even the XSX is huge. It's literally a tower PC and they use a much more expensive form of cooling. Releasing 220 watts consoles is going to require all kinds of overengineering. 6nm brings it down to 160-170 watts apparently which brings it to x1x levels. That new heatsink is still huge compared to what they had for the PS4 Pro.

 

[solidus12]

Both. My PS5 goes up to 220 Watts in the Matrix. over 210 watts in spiderman. Apparently one game was running at around 231 watts. Compared to the PS4 which was 150 watts in most games, it's insane for a console to be pushing that much power without using vapor chamber cooling which is what the x1x and xsx use.

So sony had to go old school and pack a big boy to keep not just the heat down but also the noise which was a huge issue for both the base PS4 and Pro.

I mean even the XSX is huge. It's literally a tower PC and they use a much more expensive form of cooling. Releasing 220 watts consoles is going to require all kinds of overengineering. 6nm brings it down to 160-170 watts apparently which brings it to x1x levels. That new heatsink is still huge compared to what they had for the PS4 Pro.

Do you have a launch model CFI-1000?

 

[SlimySnake]

Do you have a launch model CFI-1000?

yeah.

 

[solidus12]

yeah.

Same here, tell me something please.
Does your PS5's disc drive make this noise when you turn it on with no disc inserted?

 

[kyliethicc]

Here’s a picture of the heatsink inside the 7nm launch model vs the 6nm one.

Holy shit, that’s quite a difference. So what? Was the launch model running THAT hot or was it just over engineered to avoid the PS4 fan noise fiasco?

The launch model was clearly made with some pessimism and worst case scenario hedging. Now after years of people using the systems, and an updated chip, they must have enough info to know how minimal the heatsink needs to be.

 

[jaysius]

The launch model was clearly made with some pessimism and worst case scenario hedging. Now after years of people using the systems, and an updated chip, they must have enough info to know how minimal the heatsink needs to be.

They've learned how to cut corners to boost profit, and if there are people that have issues fuck 'em let them wait in the support queues, let them wait longer if they don't have enough "Star" power.

There's a drastic difference in the 2 heatsinks, the real test is which one will perform better over the life of the machine.

 

[kyliethicc]

They've learned how to cut corners to boost profit, and if there are people that have issues fuck 'em let them wait in the support queues, let them wait longer if they don't have enough "Star" power.

There's a drastic difference in the 2 heatsinks, the real test is which one will perform better over the life of the machine.

I have the 1100 model and it runs cool and quiet. I assume Sony engineers know what they're doing.

 

[SlimySnake]

Same here, tell me something please.
Does your PS5's disc drive make this noise when you turn it on with no disc inserted?

What noise is that? Couldn’t hear much in the video.

 

[Physiognomonics]

Both. My PS5 goes up to 220 Watts in the Matrix. over 210 watts in spiderman. Apparently one game was running at around 231 watts. Compared to the PS4 which was 150 watts in most games, it's insane for a console to be pushing that much power without using vapor chamber cooling which is what the x1x and xsx use.

So sony had to go old school and pack a big boy to keep not just the heat down but also the noise which was a huge issue for both the base PS4 and Pro.

I mean even the XSX is huge. It's literally a tower PC and they use a much more expensive form of cooling. Releasing 220 watts consoles is going to require all kinds of overengineering. 6nm brings it down to 160-170 watts apparently which brings it to x1x levels. That new heatsink is still huge compared to what they had for the PS4 Pro.

Apparently they wouldn't need vapor chamber because of the size of the heatsink. XSX suppposedly needs it because of how small (but not lighter) their heatsink is.

 

[Dirk Benedict]

Overengineered. iirc in one of the PS5 engineering videos, they mentioned that the chassis team had initially thought to go even BIGGER and the chip team was surprised how much headroom they gave them. Def went a little over the top, and now especially with materials cost increases they're seeing what they can bring down with each TDP reduction. The APU was never running worryingly hot, just maaaybe one of the flash modules but I still suspect that may have been partly GN creating a gap on disassembling it and it hasn't led to any loss of life

It's always great to read posts like this. I am an amatuer in Thermodynamics, atm and even entering the realm of physics, so, I love to read things about the new subjects I am studying and hopefully fully understand, in the near future.

 

[Jayjayhd34]

Not exactly.
I posted this in the other thread.
Austin's numbers aren't adding up.

Can't I just settle this by looking at how much wattage my smart meter goes up by or is not accurate?

189 watts on uncharted 4 remaster launch model

 

[Loxus]

Don't know if already posted but Austin did a follow-up video.


Like someone said earlier in this thread, the high power consumption is all about chip lottery and the 1100 chip that was tested was a bad power hungry chip.

Also, the 1200 motherboard.

 

[kyliethicc]

Don't know if already posted but Austin did a follow-up video.


Like someone said earlier in this thread, the high power consumption is all about chip lottery and the 1100 chip that was tested was a bad power hungry chip.

Also, the 1200 motherboard.

preparations for next year's slim redesign

doubt it shrinks that much but should be nice anyways

 

[Panajev2001a]

preparations for next year's slim redesign

doubt it shrinks that much but should be nice anyways

Shrinking the console and increasing production volumes are both super important and work with each other. Smaller console box == shipping saving costs. Smart.

 

[Tarin02543]

It would be funny if the 2023 slim will use the current 1200 motherboard, 1200 would have had a slim all along.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Don't know if already posted but Austin did a follow-up video.


Like someone said earlier in this thread, the high power consumption is all about chip lottery and the 1100 chip that was tested was a bad power hungry chip.

Also, the 1200 motherboard.

How is this a "SECRET?"

It's literally a new model number/revision, lol.

 

[TheGodfather07]

im curious how much sony can slim it down. PS3 and PS4 slim were much smaller than the original model and they both came about 3 years into the lifecycle too.

 

[jm89]

How is this a "SECRET?"

It's literally a new model number/revision, lol.

Capitalized exaggerated buzzword jutsu of the YouTube entrepreneur.

 

[Trogdor1123]

that’s because nobody wants a canadian dollar

It’s also because the ps5 was already cheaper here when you take exchange into account.

The dollar has also been slowly falling the last two years

 

[crackajack]

How is this a "SECRET?"

It's literally a new model number/revision, lol.

Sony does not announce what they change in the revisions. It's not classified and no Snowden destiny for unweiling it or something, everyone can of course delit a unit and look, but the above scans did not show it clearly, the actual chip was just within the unchanged rectangle, so the secret is just that it is not made publicly known by the official source. If sony would jsut announce what they did, youtubers and forums would have no ground to speculate where the 20-30W less power draw come from.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Sony does not announce what they change in the revisions. It's not classified and no Snowden destiny for unweiling it or something, everyone can of course delit a unit and look, but the above scans did not show it clearly, the actual chip was just within the unchanged rectangle, so the secret is just that it is not made publicly known by the official source. If sony would jsut announce what they did, youtubers and forums would have no ground to speculate where the 20-30W less power draw come from.

True.

It's no secret they went with 6nm, we had a thread for over a month on this with measurements and comparison pics. Dude is late to the party.

But... "he aaaallllmost didn't post this video."

 

[LordOfChaos]

Are new orders in North America being filled by 1200s yet?

 

[prinz_valium]

Are new orders in North America being filled by 1200s yet?

CoD Bundle and God of War bundle are definitely 1200.