Support NeoGAF

[Low Moral Fibre]

It's like a super low stakes version of the Fight Club scene with the car. As long as returns are under a certain amount the risk of drift is ok with all of the gaming companies if it saves a few $ on production costs.

 

[assurdum]

I can confirm all the ds4 I had, have had the drift issue first or later; I solved it buy one separately to the console. Frankly I'm quite annoyed of this stuff, it seems the controller bundled with the console have a cheaper built of the version sold separately. Hoped with Dual Sense this thing was definitely dead. God I hope when ps5 is available to not have such issue again because I could lose my mind.

 

[Redlancet]

I literally don't believe you.

Thats why nobody will remember you, to the ignore list

 

[thismeinteil]

As is the case with all controllers. It's just a byproduct of mass production. There are probably 15M+ Dual Sense's out there. Even if just 1% are defective, which is actually a great rate, that's still leaves 150K people who can complain online, amplifying the issue. Really 5% is an acceptable fail rate, which would be 750K people.

Same thing has happened to MS and Nintendo, and both have been sued for it, too.

 

[ShinraMiddleMananger]

Yes the shitty controller is a known issue for the DS5 namely the tension springs in the triggers breaking down in less than 400 hours. They dont make them like they used to.

 

[Krappadizzle]

Yes the shitty controller is a known issue for the DS5 namely the tension springs in the triggers breaking down in less than 400 hours. They dont make them like they used to.

I'd counter though and say they do more than ever. I could in theory use a PS5 controller for gaming on my PC, on a PS5, on my Nvidia Shield, etc. They have more utitlity than they've ever had in the past and feel as good or better than they ever have in the hand. It does NOT excuse build quality, but it does make me feel better about a purchase. I don't know the repair difficulty on the DS5 controller, but I'd bet replacing a tension spring in a trigger is a pretty easy fix if past fixes on my other controllers are any indication.

Shit wears down as it get's older. It's a part of everything from engines to any electronics in general. Sucks that it happens, but take it in stride, DO bring it up so that others can be informed and just be prepared to fix it yourself if it's out of warranty or buy an extended warranty if the idea of fixing anything frightens you.

I think some people would be surprised how easy it is to fix your own electronics if they knew how little effort actually goes into it.

 

[ShinraMiddleMananger]

I'd counter though and say they do more than ever. I could in theory use a PS5 controller for gaming on my PC, on a PS5, on my Nvidia Shield, etc. They have more utitlity than they've ever had in the past and feel as good or better than they ever have in the hand. It does NOT excuse build quality, but it does make me feel better about a purchase. I don't know the repair difficulty on the DS5 controller, but I'd bet replacing a tension spring in a trigger is a pretty easy fix if past fixes on my other controllers are any indication.

Shit wears down as it get's older. It's a part of everything from engines to any electronics in general. Sucks that it happens, but take it in stride, DO bring it up so that others can be informed and just be prepared to fix it yourself if it's out of warranty or buy an extended warranty if the idea of fixing anything frightens you.

I think some people would be surprised how easy it is to fix your own electronics if they knew how little effort actually goes into it.

Thats all well and good; fact is the controllers are cheaply built and most people arent mechanical engineers with the know how, time, money, and access to resources to do the repair themselves. Starting with N64 joystick, these companies realized they could sell a product with a baked in failure vector forcing people to buy more accessories. The cheapness of console controllers hit its stride last gen and we arw currently at an all time low. Even the premium options like the xbox elite 1 and 2 are cheaply built and of poor quality compared to the og xbox and 360 controllers. The industry has sold out and become a racket.

 

[Krappadizzle]

Thats all well and good; fact is the controllers are cheaply built and most people arent mechanical engineers with the know how, time, money, and access to resources to do the repair themselves. Starting with N64 joystick, these companies realized they could sell a product with a baked in failure vector forcing people to buy more accessories. The cheapness of console controllers hit its stride last gen and we arw currently at an all time low. Even the premium options like the xbox elite 1 and 2 are cheaply built and of poor quality compared to the og xbox and 360 controllers. The industry has sold out and become a racket.

I don't disagree with you one bit and you have my axe(that i've repaired myself) if and when you want to make that fight. It DOES suck and there's NO good excuse for the build quality of the controllers that are being sold. I'm just saying, purchasing an extended warranty is an option outside of the year-long(?) warranties that come with them. One should hold them accountable, but other than not buy a controller or extended warranty, you'll sit there with a defective product as it is if you don't want to repair it yourself.

And that aside, you don't need to be a mechanical engineer to fix 85% of the problems one would have with a controller. Just patience and the ability to google things. Without even checking, I'd bet I could find detailed instructions on how to replace a spring or stick in a PS5 controller from multiple different sites and the cost of components to fix those things that are almost assuredly a few bucks at best.

I had to fix a cracked Wii U tablet recently, $150+ to send it to Nintendo to fix or $30 to buy a screen, spend an hour with a youtube video on my phone stepping me through the process of repair. And then another 20 mins. after that to take it apart again and put it back together correctly with the trigger springs in place. It's super simple but annoying thing to fix sure but people like to make repairs more difficult than it is because they want instant gratification and/or are too lazy to do it themselves. It's a good lesson in life to learn early that shit is gonna break.... Do your research and be prepared one way or the other is all I'm saying.

 

[Yoboman]

Both sticks on my Dual sense were drifting

Thankfully the consumer protection is quite strong in Australia so they had to replace it with a new one under warranty at the retailer

 

[Irobot82]

Switch drifts, PS4 drifts, PS5 drifts, XBOX drifts, XSX drifts.

So glad I use a M+KB

 

[ShinraMiddleMananger]

I don't disagree with you one bit and you have my axe(that i've repaired myself) if and when you want to make that fight. It DOES suck and there's NO good excuse for the build quality of the controllers that are being sold. I'm just saying, purchasing an extended warranty is an option outside of the year-long(?) warranties that come with them. One should hold them accountable, but other than not buy a controller or extended warranty, you'll sit there with a defective product as it is if you don't want to repair it yourself.

And that aside, you don't need to be a mechanical engineer to fix 85% of the problems one would have with a controller. Just patience and the ability to google things. Without even checking, I'd bet I could find detailed instructions on how to replace a spring or stick in a PS5 controller from multiple different sites and the cost of components to fix those things that are almost assuredly a few bucks at best.

I had to fix a cracked Wii U tablet recently, $150+ to send it to Nintendo to fix or $30 to buy a screen, spend an hour with a youtube video on my phone stepping me through the process of repair. And then another 20 mins. after that to take it apart again and put it back together correctly with the trigger springs in place. It's super simple but annoying thing to fix sure but people like to make repairs more difficult than it is because they want instant gratification and/or are too lazy to do it themselves. It's a good lesson in life to learn early that shit is gonna break.... Do your research and be prepared one way or the other is all I'm saying.

$30 for the parts sure, but what about the tools to perform the repair or a proper outfitted location, not to mention the know how?

These smaller things add up and that is my point. Your avg child or teeneager isn't going to be able to easily breeze through these things even with a you tube video the way you can. They are all barriers to entry that add up and these billion dollar souless corps know it, thats why the shit is built with slave labor in China. In the end most will lose and nintendo and microsoft are no better tham hot tub streams on twitch.

 

[Skifi28]

Switch drifts, PS4 drifts, PS5 drifts, XBOX drifts, XSX drifts.

So glad I use a M+KB

A friend's mouse was drifting recently in games. No kidding.

 

[kuncol02]

Even the premium options like the xbox elite 1 and 2 are cheaply built and of poor quality compared to the og xbox and 360 controllers.

Older controllers had much bigger dead zones in sticks. That's why they didn't drifted that much. IMO Series X controller has much better build quality than X360 one.

 

[01011001]

Older controllers had much bigger dead zones in sticks. That's why they didn't drifted that much. IMO Series X controller has much better build quality than X360 one.

exactly. with shooters becoming more and more popular, controllers had to adapt to that, and small deadzones help immensely with more precise aiming. but not only the controllers themselves have smaller deadzones, games do too. the default deadzone in many modern shooters is way smaller than in old ones.
and most of the better ones also let you adjust your deadzone more or less freely.

BUT stick drift is not only deadzone related. if the contacts in your stick are worn down you will drift regardless of deadzone, because that is simply a defect of the contacts that give out wrong values. your stick can be perfectly centered and it still can in extreme cases give readings like if you would move the stick all the way to the edge.

the reason I think it is more of a problem now than it was back in the og Xbox and 360 days, is because now more and more people play more and more competitive shooters online for longer than ever before. R3/RS and L3/LS button presses also make it harder keeping the contacts in good condition, and shooters use those buttons more than any other game. you are constantly clicking your sticks in modern shooters. be it with the standard control scheme or custom ones. AND you click them WHILE moving them... this stuff combined are a fucking stress test galore for analog sticks.

the worst that happened back in the og Xbox days is when children were way to hard with the sticks and the springs wore down over time, making the stick loose and not centering correctly anymore. this is a completely different form of stick drift. the springs not centering is the obvious way a stick can drift, but if you don't know how the inner workings actually, well, work... then you'd never know about the conductive material getting worn down and detecting false inputs, being completely independent from the issue of centering

re-centering issues are not as bad tho, since you can adjust to that and every controller has that to a small degree out of the box. I play with an almost non existent deadzone in Apex Legends for example, and my PS4 controller's right stick has a slight drift upwards because of it not centering 100% in the middle. but I can adjust to that easily and the tradeoff is worth it for the additional precision it gives me.
BUT my left stick recently started drifting because of the war inside the stick and the conductive material flaking off, so I sometimes just start walking forwards sporadically without any stick movement being involved and the stick being 100% centered.

 

[ShinraMiddleMananger]

Older controllers had much bigger dead zones in sticks. That's why they didn't drifted that much. IMO Series X controller has much better build quality than X360 one.

Was the dead zone size dependent on tv resolution? ( sd vs hd) ?All I can say is agree to disagree, the duke and early 360 controllers from a purely mechanical perspective were unparalleled workhorses.

When was the last time you held one of either?

The heft and might of both made their presence known. The elite controllers feel the closest in durability to 360 but again they are priced as premium products which in and of itself is held as a strike against the community.

The newer editions- in my opinion- are nowhere close to what they were in the past. The xone controller feels hollow and like I can snap it in half on a whim.

 

[kaiju]

Welp looks like my PS5 controller is toast.

 

[01011001]

Was the dead zone size dependent on tv resolution? ( sd vs hd) ?All I can say is agree to disagree, the duke and early 360 controllers from a purely mechanical perspective were unparalleled workhorses.

connect an early 360 controller to a PC, play a modern competitive shooter with it for a year, and I guarantee you it will drift.
same with the og Xbox Controller, you can get USB adapters for that as well (the Xbox's controller ports were literally just reshaped USB ports, so easy conversion), it will start drifting. modern shooters put way more stress on a controller than any type of game ever before. also I have an OG xbox controller that has a slight drift even tho it wasn't used much. the evolution of the internet means more an more people are online, on forums, on social media etc. and therefore you hear way more stories about defects than you did back in the day. that + the rise of competitive shooters means you will hear more about stick drift now than ever before, and the mechanisms are not really changed compared to older controllers (except for the Dreamcast, which used Hall Sensors, and those are at least save from ever developing drift due to faulty input registration)

 

[StreetsofBeige]

What's the hassle? Is the warranty short? If the Sony warranty (or store warranty like Costco) is still valid, just return it and get a new one.

 

[Krappadizzle]

$30 for the parts sure, but what about the tools to perform the repair or a proper outfitted location, not to mention the know how?

These smaller things add up and that is my point. Your avg child or teeneager isn't going to be able to easily breeze through these things even with a you tube video the way you can. They are all barriers to entry that add up and these billion dollar souless corps know it, thats why the shit is built with slave labor in China. In the end most will lose and nintendo and microsoft are no better tham hot tub streams on twitch.

In my case, the $30 for the screen came with two magnetic screwdrivers. YouTube walkthroughs did the rest. And I did all the work on a kitchen table. It's not the daunting undertaking that you might think it is and really the only obstacle stopping you from doing a majority of repairs yourself is your own drive and motivation. Most repair items are sold as kits or at a minimum tell you what you'll need.

Again, I'm just saying that these items can be fixed. Not that they should absolutely HAVE to be, and manufactures should be held accountable to a degree, but there comes a time when you'll either have to bite the bullet and fix it yourself or be happy paying a premium to replace it. If you are gonna be left with a gimped, dead ass controller either way, may as well try and fix it when you at best have a few hours of time and a few bucks to lose, could work out better than you think. There's nothing on this planet that get's manufactured that doesn't wear out over time. Nothing.

 

[kuncol02]

exactly. with shooters becoming more and more popular, controllers had to adapt to that, and small deadzones help immensely with more precise aiming. but not only the controllers themselves have smaller deadzones, games do too. the default deadzone in many modern shooters is way smaller than in old ones.
and most of the better ones also let you adjust your deadzone more or less freely.

BUT stick drift is not only deadzone related. if the contacts in your stick are worn down you will drift regardless of deadzone, because that is simply a defect of the contacts that give out wrong values. your stick can be perfectly centered and it still can in extreme cases give readings like if you would move the stick all the way to the edge.

the reason I think it is more of a problem now than it was back in the og Xbox and 360 days, is because now more and more people play more and more competitive shooters online for longer than ever before. R3/RS and L3/LS button presses also make it harder keeping the contacts in good condition, and shooters use those buttons more than any other game. you are constantly clicking your sticks in modern shooters. be it with the standard control scheme or custom ones. AND you click them WHILE moving them... this stuff combined are a fucking stress test galore for analog sticks.

the worst that happened back in the og Xbox days is when children were way to hard with the sticks and the springs wore down over time, making the stick loose and not centering correctly anymore. this is a completely different form of stick drift. the springs not centering is the obvious way a stick can drift, but if you don't know how the inner workings actually, well, work... then you'd never know about the conductive material getting worn down and detecting false inputs, being completely independent from the issue of centering

re-centering issues are not as bad tho, since you can adjust to that and every controller has that to a small degree out of the box. I play with an almost non existent deadzone in Apex Legends for example, and my PS4 controller's right stick has a slight drift upwards because of it not centering 100% in the middle. but I can adjust to that easily and the tradeoff is worth it for the additional precision it gives me.
BUT my left stick recently started drifting because of the war inside the stick and the conductive material flaking off, so I sometimes just start walking forwards sporadically without any stick movement being involved and the stick being 100% centered.

That's all true. Especially about L3/R3 buttons. Fun fact. Sticks are actually tested to be clicked only in central position. That was especially visible with Valve Index controllers where stick wasn't clickable at all when fully pushed in one direction.

Was the dead zone size dependent on tv resolution? ( sd vs hd)

No. Smaller deadzone means better precision of control and better feel of controller. That's why we had some sort of race to bottom with deadzone size.

The elite controllers feel the closest in durability to 360

They actually have bigger problem with drift than standard controllers. Probably combination of adjustable tension (higher wear of potentiometers) and being bought mostly by people playing competitive games (especially shooters).

 

[Bluefoxfires]

How pissed would people be though if Sony raised the price to $100 for a better controller

 

[01011001]

How pissed would people be though if Sony raised the price to $100 for a better controller

well, they could... but they would need to redesign the controller a lot for it to actually work.
here's how to get a way more reliable controller:

•First, replace these shitty sticks with sticks that work with Hall Effect Sensors like in Dreamcast controllers. Doing that could also give them the option to make them replaceable! as the mechanism for detecting movement is completely separate from the actual stick and the springs that keep it centered!
•Secondly, REMOVE L3 AND R3! or to formulate it more precisely, REPOSITION THEM! L3 and R3 should be grip buttons like on most VR controllers. this means less wear on the sticks AND makes possibly replaceable sticks even easier to do!

with these 2 steps, analog sticks would be way less prone to drift AND easy to replace, either by design or not.

 

[MaKTaiL]

Every controller with an analog stick had some percentage of analog drift. So finding a couple PS5 or Series controllers with drift, out of the millions, does not indicate an issue.

If there is an issue, it WILL be known beyond any doubt. The Switch (joycons, not the Lite or Pro controller) is the only one with an actual drift problem.

All my three Dualsenses have drift.

 

[ShinraMiddleMananger]

That's all true. Especially about L3/R3 buttons. Fun fact. Sticks are actually tested to be clicked only in central position. That was especially visible with Valve Index controllers where stick wasn't clickable at all when fully pushed in one direction.


No. Smaller deadzone means better precision of control and better feel of controller. That's why we had some sort of race to bottom with deadzone size.


They actually have bigger problem with drift than standard controllers. Probably combination of adjustable tension (higher wear of potentiometers) and being bought mostly by people playing competitive games (especially shooters).

Im glad you acknowledge that as it further proves my point that controllers are getting worse across the board in all categories

 

[Irobot82]

A friend's mouse was drifting recently in games. No kidding.

I had to replace my mouse after 8 years. It stopped being responsive to movement. 8 years ain't bad though.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

I had to replace my mouse after 8 years. It stopped being responsive to movement. 8 years ain't bad though.

I hate wireless mice as the batteries always drain fast. I bought a $10 Rayco wired mouse for home use from Tiger Direct about 8 years ago too. Still strong.

I got a super old Logitech wired mouse for work I've had for the same time. I'm still using it.

These beasts will never fail!

 

[saintjules]

I currently have 2 Dualsense Controllers and have no issues so far. The only drifting I've experienced was on the PS4 Pro, but late in the lifecycle. Played Bloodborne and noticed it happening on the DS4.

 

[Irobot82]

I hate wireless mice as the batteries always drain fast. I bought a $10 Rayco wired mouse for home use from Tiger Direct about 8 years ago too. Still strong.

I got a super old Logitech wired mouse for work I've had for the same time. I'm still using it.

These beasts will never fail!

I'm still not on board with the wireless mouse/headsets. I'm still hardwired too. I'm a logitech guy. I love me the old MX510 or whatever. I now use the G502's. I love them.

 

[01011001]

I'm still not on board with the wireless mouse/headsets. I'm still hardwired too. I'm a logitech guy. I love me the old MX510 or whatever. I now use the G502's. I love them.

there are wireless mice that have the same latency as wired gaming mice, and you can also just use them wired if needed, as the charging port is usually in the front like a normal cable would be.

 

[MvCSpiderman]

Sony made some strange decisions with the hardware. You can potentially break the console by swapping out the storage.

 

[RiSA]

Not just drift, there's also garbage d-pad and sticky buttons. It seems that while spending efforts on new gimmicks they forgot about the basics.

 

[sloppyjoe_gamer]

Not saying this isnt true but i just dont get it....am i just super lucky?

PS5 since december, dead silent, no coil whine ever, no drifting sticks....there legit must be some bad batches out there

 

[MaKTaiL]

Sony made some strange decisions with the hardware. You can potentially break the console by swapping out the storage.

Maybe because you are not supposed to swap storage since it's welded into the main board and you can't take it out?

 

[Oddvintagechap]

Go to best buy, buy the same color, buy warranty. Problem solved. You can figure out the rest.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Not saying this isnt true but i just dont get it....am i just super lucky?

PS5 since december, dead silent, no coil whine ever, no drifting sticks....there legit must be some bad batches out there

PS4/5, Xbox, Nintendo all are using the same analogs. Since at least PS4 one controller had drift because of falling hard on the floor on the analog itself. Nothing since then with thousands of hours of gaming.

They are the same as well used on Xbox Elite controller, they just don't talk about them here on GAF and keep sticking it to Sony.

 

[MvCSpiderman]

Maybe because you are not supposed to swap storage since it's welded into the main board and you can't take it out?

There's literally a demonstration by Sony on how to swap storage.

 

[grfunkulus]

Jason barely out the door and Kotaku already spreading FUD.

Spoiler

/s

are you this desperate to not care how retarded you appear?

 

[Jimmyisback]

Very poor quality control.

 

[Nikodemos]

well, they could... but they would need to redesign the controller a lot for it to actually work.
here's how to get a way more reliable controller:

•First, replace these shitty sticks with sticks that work with Hall Effect Sensors like in Dreamcast controllers. Doing that could also give them the option to make them replaceable! as the mechanism for detecting movement is completely separate from the actual stick and the springs that keep it centered!
•Secondly, REMOVE L3 AND R3! or to formulate it more precisely, REPOSITION THEM! L3 and R3 should be grip buttons like on most VR controllers. this means less wear on the sticks AND makes possibly replaceable sticks even easier to do!

with these 2 steps, analog sticks would be way less prone to drift AND easy to replace, either by design or not.

Holy shit. Hall Effect sticks look so much cheaper and simpler to build. And they seem to be much more durable due to that simplicity. Why do they continue to use that ridiculously overcomplicated mechanism? Just so you can have clicky sticks?
Frankly, seems like too much of a compromise, especially since that functionality is self-destructive (clicking a stick in any position other than perfectly vertical will inevitably cause damage to it, damage which accumulates over time until complete loss of function).

 

[Irobot82]

there are wireless mice that have the same latency as wired gaming mice, and you can also just use them wired if needed, as the charging port is usually in the front like a normal cable would be.

I know. I'm set it my ways I guess.