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[LiquidMetal14]

It doesn't seem that hard to understand. It's a good jump. Not a next gen bump. This type of opinion is neither here nor there. I know that people like me will want to play GTA6 in it's best form as well as any possible game to take advantage of the extra horsepower. Sony is the one bearing the financial load, not some random dev.

 

[ReyBrujo]

Hardware improves faster than software. Even if developers are yet to fully exploit a piece of hardware a new, better one is already launching. It has always been like that and will always be, not a single developer should be surprised about that.

 

[onQ123]

If the PS5 Pro can't brute force 60fps at the current "Quality/Fidelity" graphical settings for most games going forward, then there's no reason to spend $599+ on it.

Who told you it couldn't?


I don't think the people talking like this have critical thinking skills lol


If PS5 Pro has AL upscaling & better Ray-Tracing hardware what make you think that the old 60fps mode from the PS5 isn't going to look as good as the old 30fps mode on PS5 when adding Ray-Tracing & upscaling with PS5 Pro?

 

[Kacho]

It's not the console alone that makes the game 60 fps so it's never going to be standard. Consoles will always have a power budget and there will still be developers who prioritize other things above frame rate if they have to make a choice between 60 fps and their creative vision. People who can't live with anything sub-60 will probably have to move to high end PC.

What we've seen this generation is a change in customer expectations as far as framerate. It will be up to console manufacturers and developers to meet those expectations as best they can, especially when customers are asked to spend $600 on a refresh.

 

[kruis]

Day one.
There really is no downside.
Loved my PS4 pro.

Yep. The PS4 Pro was a great machine. Worth every penny.

 

[Doctor Hades]

The PS5 Pro will exist so that the console can brute force its way through unoptimised games better. That is my take on it. It doesn't need to exist but I guess Sony see an opportunity to exploit their hardcore fanbase and get one over on Microsoft by having the "most powerful current gen console".

 

[Moses85]

 

[SkylineRKR]

Ronin is a PS5 game, looks worse than a PS4 game (Ghost of Tsushima). Devs need hardware to boost their games, has never been more apparent than now.

If Ronin looks worse than a PS4 game, then its clearly not about the hardware but rather about the developer.

I let you in on a little secret: Team Ninjas PS6 games are going to look worse than Ghost of Tsushima too.

 

[Loxus]

CPU being similar is more about compatibility than costs, really.

It has got to be cost.


Also, it seems Zen4 for fully backwards compatible with Zen2.

Which matches what Mark Cerny said about the PS5's CPU.
PlayStation 5 uncovered: the Mark Cerny tech deep dive
"All of the game logic created for Jaguar CPUs works properly on Zen 2 CPUs, but the timing of execution of instructions can be substantially different," Mark Cerny tells us. "We worked to AMD to customise our particular Zen 2 cores; they have modes in which they can more closely approximate Jaguar timing. We're keeping that in our back pocket, so to speak, as we proceed with the backwards compatibility work."

 If anything, it's the timings (clock speed) that is needed for BC. Setting BC timing modes for Zen4 shouldn't be a problem.

 

[ReBurn]

What we've seen this generation is a change in customer expectations as far as framerate. It will be up to console manufacturers and developers to meet those expectations as best they can, especially when customers are asked to spend $600 on a refresh.

Have we seen that? Because if we have then why are games still releasing that struggle to hit it? And why are people buying them?

I don't think 60 FPS is an expectation at all. I'd bet that outside of enthusiast communities most people don't really care. People are perfectly happy with 40 fps modes and games in the VRR range. People who actually care put their money where they get what they want, and that's PC. People who can't move to PC and still care just deal with it by complaining, but they still buy the games.

 

[Minsc]

Only person who really matters when it comes to the point of this is DF.

If DF doesn't understand the point, then it's a lost cause. Anyone else, who gives a fuck.

 

[saintjules]

Have we found out if Mark Cerny is leading the charge on the Pro? I'm guessing so. There has to be something from his perspective to warrant a Pro existing.

 

[midnightAI]

I'm speaking moreso of AAA development. Having a game so large that it takes 500-1,000 people spread across time zones/ continents and having different pieces or features in a game made by different teams, and using external support studios, etc.

Well noone is forcing them to make those games, that's why I mentioned some (even AAA studios) are going beyond their means and many are still using outdated engines. But game development is no harder now than it was 10 years ago unless they make it that way.

 

[Kacho]

Have we seen that? Because if we have then why are games still releasing that struggle to hit it? And why are people buying them?

I don't think 60 FPS is an expectation at all. I'd bet that outside of enthusiast communities most people don't really care. People are perfectly happy with 40 fps modes and games in the VRR range. People who actually care put their money where they get what they want, and that's PC. People who can't move to PC and still care just deal with it by complaining, but they still buy the games.

Yes, we see it on this very forum. Just last week we had a thread full of people disappointed with the PS5 Pro for that very reason.

I'm not talking about the broader market here. We're talking about a Pro console that appeals specifically to enthusiasts. We're also posting in a thread where developers are questioning why this thing exists. It's pretty clear a resolution bump alone ain't gonna cut it these days. People want more for their money.

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

You should stop assuming everyone pays attention to your posts. I have no clue who you are.

And yet decided to make assumptions about my character in general....

Oh never assumed you paid attention to my posts. dont know how you arrived at that assumption either.

Simply pointed out a fact that if you had seen my post history (if), you wouldn't be making the kinda assumption you were making.

 

[sendit]

They have been saying almost everything I have been saying since the PS5 Pro rumors started.

I don't think both the PS5 and XSX have been used to their potential and I think throwing more power at a problem is due to a lack of creativity and vision.

There is a reason the Switch has done extremely well despite being underpowered. It has a steady stream of great software and doesn't need the most cutting-edge tech. I don't think more powerful systems will automatically bring new gameplay ideas and advancements. Especially, since there is talk about just relying on old IP's and playing it safer.

The best kinds of games will make the most of what they have to work with due to out of the box thinking.

You just debunked your whole argument by bringing in the Switch. Does Tears of the Kingdom look better than Breath of the Wild? Let me know when we start seeing games that look a generation better than a cross gen game (Horizon Forbidden West). These systems graphically have already been pushed to its limits with visuals only changing per art style.

 

[Brigandier]

I really don't give a fuck who thinks it's pointless I'm getting one and I'll be looking forward to Sony 1st party games running and looking better than ever whilst also allowing games like FF to run in much better fidelity at a more stable FPS.

I don't get the "it's pointless" crowd if you don't want it don't get it

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Yes, we see it on this very forum. Just last week we had a thread full of people disappointed with the PS5 Pro for that very reason.

I'm not talking about the broader market here. We're talking about a Pro console that appeals specifically to enthusiasts. We're also posting in a thread where developers are questioning why this thing exists. It's pretty clear a resolution bump alone ain't gonna cut it these days. People want more for their money.

Cut it to whom?

This was only expected to sell 10-15% of PS5’s total sales

This is not a new generation. For $600, this is the cheapest you will find tech of this caliber by far

These mid gen refreshes aren’t expected to sell gang busters, but the improvements they offer carry forward to all future ps6 owners which is one big reason why they do it

 

[Kacho]

Cut it to whom?

You might be fine with this lackluster upgrade, but plenty of people aren’t. It’s like Dring said in the article, this thing won’t move the needle.

 

[Hawking Radiation]

I really don't give a fuck who thinks it's pointless I'm getting one and I'll be looking forward to Sony 1st party games running and looking better than ever whilst also allowing games like FF to run in much better fidelity at a more stable FPS.

I don't get the "it's pointless" crowd if you don't want it don't get it

It's pointless to the devs.

They haven't yet squeezed the juice out of the PS5. By the time PS4 Pro came along they had the OG PS4 on the ropes in terms of performance they could extract from the machine. Hence the need for the PS4 Pro.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

You might be fine with this lackluster upgrade, but plenty of people aren’t. It’s like Dring said in the article, this thing won’t move the needle.

It’s not intended to

It’s mainly going to be sold to people upgrading their current PS5

 

[sendit]

You might be fine with this lackluster upgrade, but plenty of people aren’t. It’s like Dring said in the article, this thing won’t move the needle.

Care to elaborate on why this update is lackluster?

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

You might be fine with this lackluster upgrade, but plenty of people aren’t. It’s like Dring said in the article, this thing won’t move the needle.

It’s not technically feasible to give anyone a better upgrade in 2024 at the price they will sell it

If by moving the needle you mean a new generation, no. Its a pro console, like ps4 pro or Xbox One X before it.

Neither of those moved the needle and you’ll need to wait till 2028 or later for something that does

 

[Dr. Wilkinson]

Well noone is forcing them to make those games, that's why I mentioned some (even AAA studios) are going beyond their means and many are still using outdated engines. But game development is no harder now than it was 10 years ago unless they make it that way.

I’m going off the prevailing wisdom of the modern era from comments from across the industry the last few years. If all of that is completely incorrect then so be it, but what you’re saying is not consistent with what the usual public comments are from across the industry.

 

[CamHostage]

The point is to do what the PS5 does but better; and for people who care about that to buy it. I really don't get why so many are playing dumb around it.

The consumer point of it, as a high-end player for spendier players, makes sense.

Coming from a developer point of view though, (which is where this topic comes from, given that it's based on interviews with game makers at the Game Developers Conference,) this won't help sell games. They'd rather there be something else done to move the needle, and see Sony putting focus on <15% of the market for an upgraded re-release product with a moderately performance boost (at an even higher price, with no sign of a price drop in sight so far) as a distraction from what the market really needs in these difficult times.

 

[Mobilemofo]

I said thsi

Just more confirmation this an ass upgrade.

An upyaassgrade. Am I right?

I'm not wrong.

 

[Polygonal_Sprite]

Sure, but that's completely besides the point that's being made.

The point is that there isn't a necessity, really.
Not that there is no market for a PS5 Pro.

That’s a difficult argument to make considering you could easily make the counter point that PS5 standard isn’t a necessity considering 95% of it’s games are available on PS4/PS4 Pro.

I’d love to know the developers who don’t want their art seen at higher resolutions with better lighting and smoother framerates… Like an artist not wanting better quality canvas or paints to create their work.

How they could say the don’t need it when they’re being forced to run their games at 1999 PC resolutions in order to hit 40-60fps in 2024…

 

[Kacho]

It’s not technically feasible to give anyone a better upgrade in 2024 at the price they will sell it

If by moving the needle you mean a new generation, no. Its a pro console, like ps4 pro or Xbox One X before it.

Neither of those moved the needle and you’ll need to wait till 2028 or later for something that does

Sony should aim a bit higher with their ambitions for a Pro console if they want to move the needle.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Sony should aim a bit higher with their ambitions for a Pro console if they want to move the needle.

Sony wants to sell to 15%+

Not 1%

They don’t move the needle with more cost and less adoption

 

[Eiknarf]

PS5 Pro developer verdict: ‘I didn't meet a single person that understood the po

Enthusiasm for the PS5 Pro seems to be non-existent amongst most video game developers, with most claiming there is no need for it.

metro.co.uk

Your thoughts neogaf?

Sounds like what I’ve been saying

We just started the PS5 cycle one year ago.
Up until 2023 it’s been PS4 games upgraded to PS5, Remakes and Remasters… Oh, and Returnal.

The Pro shouldn’t come out until late 2025, not late 2024

 

[Kacho]

Sony wants to sell to 15%+

Not 1%

They don’t move the needle with more cost and less adoption

What they want to happen and what actually happens are two different things. I’m curious to see how this thing does.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

What they want to happen and what actually happens are two different things. I’m curious to see how this thing does.

Should do great. Microsoft not offering a pro, Xbox going third party, and GTA6 releasing around the same time

There will be decent demand for a ps5 pro…at least equal to ps4 pro

 

[Physiognomonics]

Metro, Dring are just another PCMR / pro MS shills frightened by the existence of the PS5 Pro. Those medias have no problem with XSS dragging the games down, and Nvidia GPU suite for millionaires but have a problem with 10 million people wanting the best from the Playstation games?

Witness the same people how happy they'll be at next MS machine.

 

[Kacho]

Should do great. Microsoft not offering a pro, Xbox going third party, and GTA6 releasing around the same time

There will be decent demand for a ps5 pro…at least equal to ps4 pro

It’s the equal demand to PS4 Pro I’m not sold on yet. GTAVI will obviously move units with enthusiasts though.

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

I buy a console for 7-8 years because I don't expect to have to upgrade it every few years. On the PC, however, it looks quite different after a few years you almost have to upgrade unless you don't play the latest games or had the most expensive computer possible.

Hypocrisy in its purist form

 

[Eiknarf]

Metro, Dring are just another PCMR / pro MS shills frightened by the existence of the PS5 Pro. Those medias have no problem with XSS dragging the games down, and Nvidia GPU suite for millionaires but have a problem with 10 million people wanting the best from the Playstation games?

Witness the same people how happy they'll be a next MS machine.

So wait

Is Microsoft launching mid-gen model? I thought so.. like a cheaper, disc-free version of the Xbox Series X in July 2024?

 

[hussar16]

I didn't see the point of it until I played FFXVI and FF7 Rebirth. If I can get better resolutions in those games in performance mode I'll gladly embrace the PS5 Pro. Those games run fine but they are blurry AF, if more GPU power can give me sharper images in those games I'll be happy.


I could also use more GPU power for better clarity in my PSVR2 games.



The PS5 Pro is optional and isn't for everyone. It's not going to be a big leap like the PS6 that will justify everyone wanting one but its there for people like myself that want a little bit more.

u gona pay 500 dollars for a small bump in resolution

 

[justiceiro]

It's good to get confirmation my series s was the best purchase I could make this gen and will keep being it.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

u gona pay 500 dollars for a small bump in resolution

It’s not a small bump. It should exceed quality mode but at 60 fps with far better AA and overall image quality

 

[Physiognomonics]

...
The PS5 Pro is optional and isn't for everyone. It's not going to be a big leap like the PS6 that will justify everyone wanting one but its there for people like myself that want a little bit more.

Exactly. 95% of Playstation gamers could be interested into this machine. People playing Fifa, COD, Hogwarts Legacy, Fortnite, Elden Ring, the last Ninja game etc. All those games already run at 60fps or are GPU limited! People will understand when they'll see the difference (RT + DLSS IQ). Those ignorant people are still following DF fed Tflops propaganda created to sell Xbox machines.

 

[Dorfdad]

I’ll just wait for the PS6

According to these clowns there isn’t a need for it. Utopia has been achieved!!

 

[Playboi Carti]

I bet he asked this to devs that haven't even had access to the kits

 

[proandrad]

Same devs also said the human eye can't see pass 24fps.

 

[rofif]

lol the nerve.

here are the games just in the last year or so that they have delivered 720p (or below) performance modes. Thats PS3 era resolutions.

- Avatar
- Skull and Bones
- Star Wars jedi
- Immortals

Some UE5 games go up to 850p. Wow! What did we ever do to deserve this.
- Lords of the Fallen
- Robocop
- Alan Wake

rise of ronin runs at 936p. Dragons Dogma 2 runs at 30 fps. with drops to 25 fps.

if they cant understand why people might want better image quality than ps3 era resolutions then they dont deserve to be in this business because they are too clueless and should be flipping burgers instead.

don't you think devs could resolve this other way than throwing some more power at it?
Optimize, design differently.
AW2 is a good example. They just took pc version and slapped it on LOW and put it on ps5. not alternative ways of achieving intended look.
Lazy perhaps?

I would be ok with more 30 or 40fps focus if it means pushing bit more graphics bit devs can do anything if they have enough money and time
Look at ff16, graphics mode which is 30fps looks amazing. 60 is just a quick addon. They said it

 

[ZehDon]

u gona pay 500 dollars for a small bump in resolution

It's not gonna be $499.

 

[MayauMiao]

I never get the mid gen upgrade as I feel it serves only to divide gamers, add complication to devs for optimizing their games, and also a waste of time with added cost.

 

[ByWatterson]

Maybe it exists because as the generation matures, devs will hit bottlenecks and it'd be cool, when that time comes, to have ready a console that has to compromise a little less than 2020 gear?

 

[DrFigs]

It sounds bad, but realize these are the same devs that are releasing games in the current year running at 1080p or w/ low image quality, sub 60fps, constant dips, etc. The fact that they're comfortable releasing these games in the state they're in and then going "gee idk why people would want stronger consoles" is pretty telling.

 

[Woggleman]

He is probably right and I will probably still get one. They should focus on 60 FPS and games being able to have ray tracing while maintaining 60 FPS.

 

[Jesb]

I said thsi

An upyaassgrade. Am I right?

I'm not wrong.