Sony wants the FLOPS title back from the Series X.
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PS5 Pro developer verdict: ‘I didn’t meet a single person that understood the point of it’
- Thread starter Roxkis_ii
- Start date
NickFire
Member
You are correct that the Pro won't lead to new gameplay ideas or advancements. But that is not the point of a mid gen upgrade to begin with. It's sole mission is providing a graphical upgrade compared to the base model.
Aenima
Member
Now devs dont have an excuse. When the mid gen hardware is out they have, thats my point.
chilichote
Member
What kind of developer is this? Certainly not for games^^
PSSR alone should convince every developer because it improves image quality while increasing performance. So... what exactly can't you understand about it?
PSSR alone should convince every developer because it improves image quality while increasing performance. So... what exactly can't you understand about it?
QuantumZebra
Member
Hate to play devil's advocate here but if Sony can get more time out of the PS5 and make money... it makes sense.
Euler007
Member
I have a 468hp car that does 0-60 around 4 second. I never met a person that understood the point of going that fast. To be honest it's pointless.
I love it.
I had money, and they had the car. Now I have the car, and they have the money. And I still have a lot of money.
People never understand the "the client is always right". If someone offers a product at price X and the transaction concludes with a client it was right. It doesn't fucking matter that someone with less cash than the client thinks the client was wrong to spend the money and the producer was wrong to produce the product.
I love it.
I had money, and they had the car. Now I have the car, and they have the money. And I still have a lot of money.
People never understand the "the client is always right". If someone offers a product at price X and the transaction concludes with a client it was right. It doesn't fucking matter that someone with less cash than the client thinks the client was wrong to spend the money and the producer was wrong to produce the product.
rickybooby87
Member
PS6!? I'm waiting for the PS7.
Salty Popsicle
Banned
If the PS5 Pro can't brute force 60fps at the current "Quality/Fidelity" graphical settings for most games going forward, then there's no reason to spend $599+ on it.
A.Romero
Member
Well, devs don't get a cut of the consoles sold so it's normal they don't see a point.
If anything that opinion speaks badly of them in my opinion, I would think they'd be happy to have more room to innovate. I guess they are not interested in making stuff for next gen either.
I don't see myself getting a pro console but I don't see any drawback from having more options.
If anything that opinion speaks badly of them in my opinion, I would think they'd be happy to have more room to innovate. I guess they are not interested in making stuff for next gen either.
I don't see myself getting a pro console but I don't see any drawback from having more options.
Salty Popsicle
Banned
If they guaranteed a locked 60fps for 90% of games going forward at current "Quality/Fidelity" mode level of detail, then it would sell gangbusters.
Dr. Wilkinson
Gold Member
Making games is hard. Harder than ever, nowadays. No one wants to launch a bad game.
Kacho
Gold Member
Ideally that's what a Pro upgrade would be. No idea why CPU upgrades aren't feasible other than cost.
Rocco Schiavone
Member
Strange statement from the developer(s)
These are probably the same developers who have to turn down the resolution so much in performance mode to achieve a reasonably stable 60 FPS, but in the end all that's left is mud.
Ridiculous.
These are probably the same developers who have to turn down the resolution so much in performance mode to achieve a reasonably stable 60 FPS, but in the end all that's left is mud.
Ridiculous.
I don't get people saying the current-gen consoles haven't even been properly used yet. I mean, there's already some sub 1080p games. Those consoles aren't that powerful. Sure, PS5 Pro isn't going to change much, but some people are willing to pay extra for the higher resolution and raytracing. I think no one expects the Pro is going to sell like crazy.
Fbh
Gold Member
The mid gen refresh isn't intended to create new games or bring new gameplay ideas. There will be no Ps5 pro exclusive games, everything on the Pro will be designed to run on the base console too.
The mid gen refresh is an optional upgrade for people that want a visuals and/or performance upgrade on existing and upcoming games.
For example If you want to play FF7 Rebirth at 60fps without it looking like someone smeared vaseline over your screen, or Alan Wake 2 at 60fps without having to go down to 870p
The pro won't fix poorly made and/or optimized games.
But it might be able to brute force better performance out of it.
Of course the ideal solution would be for Team Ninja to get heir shit together. But since that's clearly not going to happen your two options are a more powerful console or just accept to play their games at sub 1080 sub 60fps
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Mr.Phoenix
Member
It's not going to be $599+. It's even unlikely that is more than $499+. Dont know why some are pushing this narrative that the console would cost $600+ when everything we know so far is actually suggesting the opposite.
Even if they did that, it wouldn't sell gangbusters. If this thing ends up with 20% in sales yearly by the time it's all said and done, that would be exceeding expectations. Of all the people who buy it, only like 10% would be buying it cause they know why its better than the PS5 base model, the remaining 90%, would be buying it simply because it's the new PS5 or the best PS5.
Its like people on this forum don't realize how much of a minority we are.
Salty Popsicle
Banned
The PS5 still retails for $499. Why would the Pro not be at least $100 more?
FunkMiller
Gold Member
Yep. Fucking pointless.
Sony's push to get as many games out on as many platforms as possible, to make as much money as possible, as quickly has possible, has fucking hamstrung games development, and rendered a mid-gen refresh completely pointless for anyone but the most committed die hard fans.
It's going to sell far less than they want. Just like PSVR2.
This generation has been ruined by corporate greed from both blue and green teams.
Sony's push to get as many games out on as many platforms as possible, to make as much money as possible, as quickly has possible, has fucking hamstrung games development, and rendered a mid-gen refresh completely pointless for anyone but the most committed die hard fans.
It's going to sell far less than they want. Just like PSVR2.
This generation has been ruined by corporate greed from both blue and green teams.
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Mr.Phoenix
Member
I have tried, probably over 10 times now to try and explain this. Hell, even John was saying something along those lines in one of their DF specials recently and ripping off what devs had told him.
I am beginning to realize however, that the people still saying this, are not interested in facts.
So rather than explain it again, I will just say, because its not needed.
Mr.Phoenix
Member
At least $100 more, is not $600+.
And the PS5 retails for $499 because they could get away with it. Oh, and if you are going to say that, you should also point out that you can get a PS5 digital+ SM2 for $399. And this is March, so you somehow expect that there will not be a permanent price drop to $399 for the PS5 Digital (which I expect to soon become the only SKU in circulation) between now and the end of the year?
Not only do I expect the PS5 to officially just sit at $399 by the end of the year, I expect the PS5pro, to be no more than $100 (so $499) over the PS5 base. Only caveat here is that I expect both SKUs to be sold at those prices $399 and $499 without a disc drive.
Kacho
Gold Member
Plenty of users on this forum want 60fps to be standard on consoles, so saying it’s not needed because you don’t personally care is not a sufficient answer. You seem more interested in running damage control for an undesirable Pro console.
Mr.Phoenix
Member
That not why I say its not needed (just cant be bothered explaining it for the 10th time to yet another person just like you who I know is not actually trying to be reasonable). And if you read my post history, you will know I am one of those who care too much. Eg.. I refuse to buy any game that does not have a 60fp mode.
And great job not just jumping to assumptions, but trying to dismiss someone else's opinions that differ from yours as "damage control". It would be funny if what you are doing isn't so pitiful.
Quantum253
Gold Member
If the developers are given hardware (Pro/GPUs) and don't utilize the extra capabilities or "Don't know the point of it" then something is off either in their own abilities to utilizing the features or in the studios leadership. I've ever heard someone say they didn't know the point of faster/better hardware.....usually it's saying they want it to realize their vision
Lord Panda
The Sea is Always Right
Did the sentiment come from the same developers who were howling at the sky?
Kacho
Gold Member
You should stop assuming everyone pays attention to your posts. I have no clue who you are.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
lol the nerve.
here are the games just in the last year or so that they have delivered 720p (or below) performance modes. Thats PS3 era resolutions.
- Avatar
- Skull and Bones
- Star Wars jedi
- Immortals
Some UE5 games go up to 850p. Wow! What did we ever do to deserve this.
- Lords of the Fallen
- Robocop
- Alan Wake
rise of ronin runs at 936p. Dragons Dogma 2 runs at 30 fps. with drops to 25 fps.
if they cant understand why people might want better image quality than ps3 era resolutions then they dont deserve to be in this business because they are too clueless and should be flipping burgers instead.
here are the games just in the last year or so that they have delivered 720p (or below) performance modes. Thats PS3 era resolutions.
- Avatar
- Skull and Bones
- Star Wars jedi
- Immortals
Some UE5 games go up to 850p. Wow! What did we ever do to deserve this.
- Lords of the Fallen
- Robocop
- Alan Wake
rise of ronin runs at 936p. Dragons Dogma 2 runs at 30 fps. with drops to 25 fps.
if they cant understand why people might want better image quality than ps3 era resolutions then they dont deserve to be in this business because they are too clueless and should be flipping burgers instead.
Belthazar
Member
Kind of a stupid thing to say when we have a lot of games looking blurry as hell to achieve 60fps on console. Especially games running on Unreal. If they aren't making the most of the hardware and are still unable to achieve a reasonable level of image quality and performance... Are they just incompetent?
midnightAI
Member
Well, it isn't really, Devs have more tools available to them than ever. I can only speak for myself (indie dev), but the hardware isn't the issue, there are several issues but a couple of them are Devs using outdated engines, and some Devs scoping beyond their own abilities.
Devs (coders at least) have it easy these days, imagine we were still in the 8 bit days of coding using assembler
Actual engine coding is hard admittedly, but many studios just use pre built engines like UE or Unity.
Belthazar
Member
CPU being similar is more about compatibility than costs, really.
dano1
A Sheep
Are we sure he's talked to developers that have actually had hands on experience with it to draw this conclusion? Because it's funny hearing him say this while people that have talked to developers with experience are saying the complete opposite.
64bitmodels
Reverse groomer.
That's arrowhead's fault not Sony's.
Dr. Wilkinson
Gold Member
I'm speaking moreso of AAA development. Having a game so large that it takes 500-1,000 people spread across time zones/ continents and having different pieces or features in a game made by different teams, and using external support studios, etc.
YOU PC BRO?!
Member
Shame on you. No such thing. One can never have too much power. If my life has a meaning, that's the meaning. - "Maximillian 'Max' Shreck"
cartman414
Member
Soooooooo talk to me like I'm a 5 year old.
Sony made a machine which devs couldn't use to it's full potential due to programming. So they release a stronger PS5 which allows devs to circumvene this by giving them more raw power!?
Thereby forcing the graphics purists to switch to a more expensive console when the og PS5 has all the potential?
Sony hasn't learned from the PS2 Emotion Engine era.
Fuck em.
How could it be due to design though? I thought we were past the age of complicated hardware.
MisterXDTV
Member
ReBurn
Gold Member
It's not the console alone that makes the game 60 fps so it's never going to be standard. Consoles will always have a power budget and there will still be developers who prioritize other things above frame rate if they have to make a choice between 60 fps and their creative vision. People who can't live with anything sub-60 will probably have to move to high end PC.
Gamerguy84
Member
Maybe be able to extend the gen a while? Be able to run UE5 games properly? I want it for higher res performance modes and PSSR. Also for VR. Plenty of reasons for a customer.
FIREKNIGHT2029
Member
I didn't see the point of it until I played FFXVI and FF7 Rebirth. If I can get better resolutions in those games in performance mode I'll gladly embrace the PS5 Pro. Those games run fine but they are blurry AF, if more GPU power can give me sharper images in those games I'll be happy.
I could also use more GPU power for better clarity in my PSVR2 games.
The PS5 Pro is optional and isn't for everyone. It's not going to be a big leap like the PS6 that will justify everyone wanting one but its there for people like myself that want a little bit more.
I could also use more GPU power for better clarity in my PSVR2 games.
The PS5 Pro is optional and isn't for everyone. It's not going to be a big leap like the PS6 that will justify everyone wanting one but its there for people like myself that want a little bit more.