playsaves3
Banned
No each game has different results some games are basically the same some games are near %20 and others with rt the 4080 is faster (save for far cry 6 which is weirdly faster with it on the xtx)
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PS5 Pro devkits arrive at third-party studios, Sony expects Pro specs to leak
- Thread starter Bernoulli
- Start date
No each game has different results some games are basically the same some games are near %20 and others with rt the 4080 is faster (save for far cry 6 which is weirdly faster with it on the xtx)
VolticArchangel
Member
Yo, holyshit.
Calverz
Member
Im not talking about Xbox bro. But since you brought it up, its priced at £360.Same price as a Series X, 3 years later.
Microsoft is hiking the price of Xbox Series X and Xbox Game Pass
The Xbox price hike follows warnings prices wouldn’t hold forever.www.theverge.com
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ChuckeRearmed
Member
I guess it will be 599 at least.
rsouzadk
Member
That would be a significantly jump over the actual ps5.
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DeathGuise
Member
This is half the reason why I didn't buy a PS5.
This trend has essentially solidified itself with this generation. The biggest Sony games are cross-gen. Of course they run better on the PS5, but if you have a PS4 Pro like I do, it doesn't make sense to buy a PS5 if you know the Pro will come out.
Add to that the very high reality that Sony games will be on PC and the only reason I can see to get a PS5 is for the Demon's Souls remake which is admittedly something I'd like to play. But if my rig can play any Playsation games better than they'd run on PS hardware, what's the point?
And if backwards compatibility continues (I mean let's say you can play PS4 games on the PS6), there's literally no reason not to just keep waiting until 1) the games you want come out on PC or 2) enough games that you want to play are released that you decide "Okay now's the time to get updated hardware."
I have a GameCube. I need to have a GameCube if I want to play Eternal Darkness. I can play God of War 2018 forever now on Steam.
By the way it probably sounds like I'm shitting on Sony but I'm not. In fact the above mentioned variables create a function that benefits customers greatly. But I'm not sure that reduced console sales is something they intended with the "refresh" concept. Also by the way I'm not insinuating that it was Sony who initiated the refresh movement. I have no idea who did it first.
This trend has essentially solidified itself with this generation. The biggest Sony games are cross-gen. Of course they run better on the PS5, but if you have a PS4 Pro like I do, it doesn't make sense to buy a PS5 if you know the Pro will come out.
Add to that the very high reality that Sony games will be on PC and the only reason I can see to get a PS5 is for the Demon's Souls remake which is admittedly something I'd like to play. But if my rig can play any Playsation games better than they'd run on PS hardware, what's the point?
And if backwards compatibility continues (I mean let's say you can play PS4 games on the PS6), there's literally no reason not to just keep waiting until 1) the games you want come out on PC or 2) enough games that you want to play are released that you decide "Okay now's the time to get updated hardware."
I have a GameCube. I need to have a GameCube if I want to play Eternal Darkness. I can play God of War 2018 forever now on Steam.
By the way it probably sounds like I'm shitting on Sony but I'm not. In fact the above mentioned variables create a function that benefits customers greatly. But I'm not sure that reduced console sales is something they intended with the "refresh" concept. Also by the way I'm not insinuating that it was Sony who initiated the refresh movement. I have no idea who did it first.
DeathGuise
Member
I don't want to speak for him but while I agree that 23 was amazing for gaming, I don't think it's because of the new generation of consoles. Alan Wake is on PC. Baldur's Gate is on PC. RE4 is on PC. I think those were the big ones that everyone considered to be the best of the best. I think RE4 even runs on the PS4. I'm not saying he's right but I can understand why he would say the next generation hasn't started.
VolticArchangel
Member
There's some discussion about GTAVI being better on Xbox next than the PS5 Pro, as it's launching 1 year later (or same year of GTAVI, 2025), positioning itself as the best place for 3rd party games and "the world's most powerful console" PR jargon that Microsoft loves to chest thump from the rooftops whenever they can (like they did with the One X and Series X), until inevitably the PS6 launch 2 years later and losing the power crown to it.
This, if it happens in Microsoft's favor will position them as the best console in terms of publicity and word of mouth, because of the biggest game in the world being best played on their console.
What you guys forget to remember, including
HeisenbergFX4
here, is that Rockstar doesn't do the supposedly "nextgen" ports separately. They do both consoles at once.
This isn't 2008, where you can moneyhat them for $50 million USD getting some timed exclusivity on GTAIV's DLC.
This is 2023 Rockstar, where they announce their games when they like it, release their games when they like it, price their games how they like it, DGAF about trade shows like E3 or The Game Awards for announcements for maximum coverage, and have a guaranteed billion dollar+ box office opening weekend for their mainline GTA title.
Unless and until Microsoft fork a cool $1 billion+ in moneyhat, they won't early port the nextgen version and you'd be playing the backwards compatible version of GTAVI, with Series X settings, WITHOUT performance boost, like RDR2 (and not RDR1), because they can sell you the game again, just like GTAV current gen port with the ray tracing stuff exclusive to consoles.
This is taking into consideration that Sony would allow the moneyhat and not have an already GTAVI marketing deal/partnership in place, like they did with RDR2, where it was One X having native 4K30 and PS4 Pro with 1800p30 or something. But here, since it's an all new nextgen console, things will be completely different and will be running the Series X code in BC mode, and Sony would be incredibly stupid to not have the marketing deal for GTAVI again like RDR2 previously.
There is a chance that they outright refuse moneyhats going forward, from all platform holders, for GTA alone as an IP, considering how uncontrollably big it has become, and their legal team after financial evaluation might come into play asking exorbitant deals/margins, which could be infeasible for both Sony/Microsoft. So, there's that too.
This, if it happens in Microsoft's favor will position them as the best console in terms of publicity and word of mouth, because of the biggest game in the world being best played on their console.
What you guys forget to remember, including
HeisenbergFX4
here, is that Rockstar doesn't do the supposedly "nextgen" ports separately. They do both consoles at once.This isn't 2008, where you can moneyhat them for $50 million USD getting some timed exclusivity on GTAIV's DLC.
This is 2023 Rockstar, where they announce their games when they like it, release their games when they like it, price their games how they like it, DGAF about trade shows like E3 or The Game Awards for announcements for maximum coverage, and have a guaranteed billion dollar+ box office opening weekend for their mainline GTA title.
Unless and until Microsoft fork a cool $1 billion+ in moneyhat, they won't early port the nextgen version and you'd be playing the backwards compatible version of GTAVI, with Series X settings, WITHOUT performance boost, like RDR2 (and not RDR1), because they can sell you the game again, just like GTAV current gen port with the ray tracing stuff exclusive to consoles.
This is taking into consideration that Sony would allow the moneyhat and not have an already GTAVI marketing deal/partnership in place, like they did with RDR2, where it was One X having native 4K30 and PS4 Pro with 1800p30 or something. But here, since it's an all new nextgen console, things will be completely different and will be running the Series X code in BC mode, and Sony would be incredibly stupid to not have the marketing deal for GTAVI again like RDR2 previously.
There is a chance that they outright refuse moneyhats going forward, from all platform holders, for GTA alone as an IP, considering how uncontrollably big it has become, and their legal team after financial evaluation might come into play asking exorbitant deals/margins, which could be infeasible for both Sony/Microsoft. So, there's that too.
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
It isn't going to move the needle one bit, since the majority will still buy it on the 70m+ sold by that time PS5 consoles.
Rockstar knows this. Sony knows this. And even MS knows this.
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Mr Moose
Member
Nice try, go back to the first thing I asked. Did you buy an Xbox One at launch? It's only £360 because it's on sale. The normal price is £480.
hinch7
Member
Fair play if you have patience of a saint. Though you'll be missing out on years of gaming, waiting for a refresh/Pro model. For just the same games with better performance and image quality. Same goes for waiting for ports of PS games on PC.. even more waiting. If you cared for top performance, consoles ain't where its at. And be better off upgrading your PC. And have a console for exclusives.
Options are a nice thing to have. Especially when the console generations are getting longer, with several years in between.
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Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Yes, the 4090 is over 3x. The 4080 is 2.63x the raster performance of a 2070S. And I said "around' 3x but the point still stands. You won’t get over 2.5x the performance at a similar TDP with a single die shrink.
What the heck do you guys think this is? RT or raster performance on par with a 4080? What kind of crack do you smoke? It’s an upgraded PS5. They’re not shooting for a revolutionary device here. 7900 XTX/4080-level of performance is completely out of reach.
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Ronin_7
Member
Delusional.
D
Deleted member 848825
Unconfirmed Member
I'm sceptical tbh. I'd predict less powerful than a 4070. I mean we'd be going from what, circa 10.5 FP32 tflops to 29? Which sounds to good to be true for a mid gen refresh. But I sure hope I'm wrong.
Crayon
Member
I'm going to put my bet on the on-paper specs causing a lot of tears when they are revealed. If if does have a proprietary scaling solution that is as good as dlss, that's going to go a long way. You can push dlss farther than fsr2 before it starts looking bad. So pro versions may even run at comically low resolutions while still looking better. There may be new hardware for rt on the soc, as well.
Whether the end result is good or not, I wouldn't be expecting any huge tflop numbers, memory or cpu upgrades, anything. Reserve judgment before we actually see what it does in games. Try to learn something from te PS5 spec reveal.
Whether the end result is good or not, I wouldn't be expecting any huge tflop numbers, memory or cpu upgrades, anything. Reserve judgment before we actually see what it does in games. Try to learn something from te PS5 spec reveal.
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CamHostage
Member
True, but grass-is-greener FOMO settles in for a lot of people and the Pro model concept (even though they've only ever done them once, unless you count Nintendo and then they've done it for 3 of its 4 portable gens) gets people afraid to put money down now when they have it in their head the expectation to put more money down later.
A trade-in program to swap up your standard console for a pro might be a cool concept, but now with everything installed on your drives (which don't come out easy, if at all) and products registered to the specific console, none of these hardware manufacturers would consider that type of program.
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Rocco Schiavone
Member
Strix Halo will be have 4070 Max-Q performance. PS5 Pro should be at the same Performance Level.
schaft0620
Member
Here is the thing, regardless of what FPS it plays GTA6 at, its going to run better on a PS5 Pro compared to a PS5. You have to imagine that includes going from 30FPS to 60FPS. At the very least Sony steps in and helps them get to 45FPS with VRR but, I would imagine that is how it would run on a standard PS5.
Insane Metal
Member
I expect a lower jump this time around. Like going from 10TF to 17TF. Like a 70% TF uplift but 200% RT perf uplift.
HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
I like your guess because honestly its where I have heard the target was even late last year, this was my guess in May
Mobilemofo
Member
I tell people at work that the ps5 is 957 times more powerful than the gamegear.This shit reminds of a convo I had with a guy at work when the steam deck came out. He was insistent that the steam deck was super powerful and would out perform a PS5 and a proper gaming PC. He told me he heard it was the most powerful gaming device..
What he actually heard was it was the super powerful for it's form factor and price. Specs are specs.
Bernardougf
Member
You know he did..with kinect ..
hinch7
Member
Yeah, bumped up specs for refreshes years later isn't a new thing. And this gen thus far.. and well a mini PC. The Steam Deck got a decent refresh with the OLED just recently. And for OG owners.. You don't have to buy them and its not like the games are going to be unplayable on the core console/system. You just get some extra nice perks and performance with newer hardware.
If you told me I'd have to wait nearly four years only to and miss out on a load of games and over half a generation, to buy a console... because you're worried about performance and FOMO. I wouldn't bother personally. Might as well just go PC at that point to avoid wasting time. And/or get a console and enjoy them.
I mean getting hardware thats supported for 6-8 years is fairly uncommon in the tech space. So complaining about refresh/Pro models doesn't make much sense tbh. And yeah, an upgrade program would be great for the enviroment (and for us) but the costs for Sony/MS wouldn't make sense unfortunately.
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MikeM
Member
Day 1 owner here getting a day 1 Pro. I don’t get all the hate on the potential Pro.
blastprocessor
The Amiga Brotherhood
More like between 4060 and 4070.
Visually the difference will be bigger than PS4 to PS4 Pro because the focus will be on better RT vs just pushing more pixels.
PS4 Pro games could have looked a lot better than PS4 versions but the focus was on higher pixels or better frame rates.
With a PS5 Pro we have the case of there already being 60fps modes & 4K up sampling.
The higher the pixels go the more wasteful Native resolutions becomes so it's better used on Ray tracing.
PS4 Pro games could have looked a lot better than PS4 versions but the focus was on higher pixels or better frame rates.
With a PS5 Pro we have the case of there already being 60fps modes & 4K up sampling.
The higher the pixels go the more wasteful Native resolutions becomes so it's better used on Ray tracing.
CamHostage
Member
And now, that's compounded by the general condition of game development technology and financing which results in a large portion of games now and going forward being cross-gen.
If a person doesn't by a Launch Console because they're waiting for a Pro, and then they don't buy a Pro because they're waiting to buy the Next-Gen Launch... will they ever buy a new platform?
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Weird ass logics & theories that was proven wrong like the claims that the base model wouldn't get pushed as hard as it should. Proven false by the games still pushing PS4 until this day.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Which would coincide with their own rumored DLSS solution.
farmerboy
Member
Yeah but if we can hit 60fps in quality mode (you know what I mean) with improved raytracing then I thnk thats enough for a midgen refresh.
splattered
Member
Well i mean it'll move the needle... i myself personally will be buying x2 SX Pro if not x3-4 of them depending on the spec increase, and i'll also be buying GTA VI on Xbox. I'll also be buying the PS5 Pro like a dummy cause i like to have all the consoles even if i don't have the time to play all of them equally anymore.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Ok. Again, won't move the needle.
delirium trigger
Member
People think the big jump is going to be ray tracing on an amd chip?
Interfectum
Member
The only true feature it needs is hardware driven resolution scaling. Would be a game change even if hardware specs stayed similar.
HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
Physiognomonics
Member
That's exactly what many of us are thinking. Ray Tracing was already number 2 in Cerny's best feature list for PS5. It's bound to be number 1 for PS5 Pro.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Think about some brute force updates here and there, some refinements and some new features, but mostly think about the main design elements that defined PS5 becoming their ultimate Super Saiyan version
. While Pro consoles will deliver more than this, the main point of Pro consoles is to perfect the core areas of the base design as much as possible. It is not to find new dreams or bringing a new and exclusive generation model with BC support.
ChiefDada
Member
PS5 Pro hitting 4080 performance? I wouldn't go that far.
But PS5 Pro besting 7900xtx in RT workload is not out of reach at all if dedicated RT units come to fruition. In fact, we should all be surprised if it doesn't when you consider 4070 bests it in Phantom Liberty RT and even 8gb 3070 apparently eclipse the RDNA flagship in Harry Potter, which is nuts to me but drives home the importance of dedicated HW over TF specs.
playsaves3
Banned
The 4090 IS NOT 3x the raster power let over the average is 2.7x (some games a low as 2.5x) the 4080 is on average 2.2x-2.4x) not 2.7x and this would be completely in line with what the ps4 did and that one didn’t increase the price $200+ dollars
Mr Reasonable
Completely Unreasonable
Series plays Xbox One, 360 and original Xbox games. Next console will definitely play Series, Xbox One, 360 and original Xbox games.
Games are still coming out for Xbox One.
Whatever console anybody launches in 2025, you can bet that Series X/S will still be getting games 5 years from now.
Edit: didn't realise I was. 10 pages back...
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Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Yes, it is.
You keep repeating those numbers and I have no idea where you get them from. 30-32% of the RTX 4090's performance. It's over 3x. I'm gonna ignore you from now on because you've been spouting nonsense for pages.
RTX 4080 performance won't happen. You're a lunatic for even suggesting it.
playsaves3
Banned
You would be ridiculous to think the raster power would be any less than a 4070 assuming we take the rumor that they aren’t upgrading anything else true.
playsaves3
Banned
Would be a massive shame if they don’t up the cpu (I don’t think we need a memory upgrade) but I’m not expecting much
playsaves3
Banned
Why is everyone acting like 4070 raster performance it would still be behind in rt by quite a bit if anything I think 4070 performance is too conservative for a $600-$700 console you also need to purchase an $80 disc drive for I hope it’s closer to a
delirium trigger
Member
4060 ti, lol.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Because Hogwarts Legacy was broken at launch on AMD cards. This is how it stacks up to an RTX 4080 now.PS5 Pro hitting 4080 performance? I wouldn't go that far.
But PS5 Pro besting 7900xtx in RT workload is not out of reach at all if dedicated RT units come to fruition. In fact, we should all be surprised if it doesn't when you consider 4070 bests it in Phantom Liberty RT and even 8gb 3070 apparently eclipse the RDNA flagship in Harry Potter, which is nuts to me but drives home the importance of dedicated HW over TF specs.
In typical games with ray tracing, the 7900 XTX usually performs in the same ballpark as an RTX 3090 or sometimes 3090 Ti. Of course, the more intensive the workload is, the more NVIDIA cards pull ahead to the point that in pure ray tracing (path tracing) benchmarks, it loses to a 3080 quite easily. But path tracing is hardly relevant since I doubt Sony will have any games running it on the PS5 Pro.
Additionally, the fact that AMD is so far behind NVIDIA in ray tracing should actually make you doubt AMD's ability to catch up to them, not the other way around. You're using the 4070 as a reference for the PS5 Pro's RT performance when it's an NVIDIA card. You should use an AMD card and it doesn't look good at all, unless you suddenly expect AMD to match NVIDIA in the next round. Not impossible, but given AMD's track record over the past decade, I wouldn't bet on it.
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delirium trigger
Member
Not 4080, not 4070, most likely 4060 ti level performance. Responding to the person who made 3 comments right before me, Jim.